Further nerfs on survivors can really hurt the playerbase
DbD's huge success was always thanks to the fact that playing survivor is so much fun, easy and casual friendly(+ licensed killers survivors/killers ).
The recent constant nerfs on survivor side since years is getting quite worrying. As you know there is a talk about gutting Dead Hard to be useless and 2 killer getting buffed, a map reworked to be killer sided( massive dead zones), Circle of Healing made useless for solo, and of course healing will also gets nerfed to take forever.
No new perk allowed to be meta for survivors. Example would be Boil over or parental guidance, or in the past lucky break rework nerfed into ground, all of them destroyed by killer main demands.
The only item worth is bringing now is medkit as survivor(thanks to toolbox nerfs, hatch nerf so keys are useless, flashlight only good for killers) the question is how long since soon even healing will be taken away to suit killer main demands.
The point is the game getting very hard for casuals and devs have to really think whatever is it worth to lose huge part of survivor playerbase.
Comments
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Yeah Dead Hard the five year old perk might no longer be meta. Maybe things will change like Overcome becoming meta for the next five years.
It's even easier to use because you don't have to press a button just get hit.
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It's so disappointing to see posts like this. So narrow-minded as to only see the "issues" (Survivors don't have that many issues aside from bad players being bad) on their side
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No issue for killers either, it's just player skill issue.
See streamers doing 4K games 50 in row, if anything killers overpowered, its just easier to blame the game than learn to play. After the nerfs probably we will see 500+ games won in a row as killer with 3-4K
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Constant nerfs ? What are you talking about ? Last changes for the survivors :
- Circle of healing
- Exponential
- DH server validation
- Hit server validation
- Soon the icon system
ATM there are not enough killers for the number of survivors playing. Actually it's the killer playerbase that is hugely hurt. And why do survivors are also leaving ? Because they are bored to have 10 minutes queue times and to face only Nurse/Blight.
And you are totally wrong on everything, you might clearly be a baby survivor as SWFs i face often bring multiple brand new parts and gen rush is insane.
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Ah yes make a post about the poor casual survivor player but use some streamer with thousands of hours as an argument why killer have no problem. 😩🤦
Either argument for high skill killer AND survivor or for casuals on BOTH SIDES but stop these stupid cherry picking arguments.
And for your exact example maybe use something like oracle for your survivor standard if some streamer is it for killers.
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Nope they do not since the SBMM has been released.
And well i guess you have never faced those streamers. I have played against Otz and True multiple times since the SBMM release.
Otz is ALWAYS proxy camping/coming back on saves to get free hits. He is also often tunneling. The way he is playing is really not fun for the survivors and many DC... but i understand why he plays like this, it's the only viable strategy.
True however is never camping nor tunneling and he doesn't come back on saves. He has always lost the games he has played against me while i was soloQ.
There is a huge problem as killers cannot win if they do not play fair. Check the last Otz' video, he is explaining that winning as a killer is not a problem if you play extremely dirty but who has fun doing this ? No one.
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There are way more issues on both sides other than getting good, but even if a Killer was good, they'd lose to equally skilled Survivors because Killers have way more issues.
Wasn't there an escape streak that went on for 300 games or so? By that logic, Survivors are way more op than Killers.
If you honestly think there will be 500 4k streaks once Dead Hard is nerfed, then you're probably among the Survivors that Dead Hard into a wall
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Yesterday I played on EU, I got instant games as survivor morning- till early evening.
After early evening-night I had to wait 3-5 minutes for a game.
So its not bad in my region at all.
Nobody using exponential
CoH got nerfed several times
DH probably gets removed
Icon system will never come
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CoH got nerfed several times, yet it will remain a meta Perk because it's still good
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But here is the thing, nothing prevents a killer from playing "dirty", if they were buffed to be able to win without using any tactics that would make them extremely overpowered. Doesn't matter how " unfun" is if the game allows it then fair play, and every good killer plays like that.
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Cause during the day there are less survivors playing cause many do not want to play soloQ. Killer being soloQ all the time, you still have killers playing the whole day.
Now there are 17k players on steam, this evening it will be 35k. Number of killers won't change through the day.
What you have to look at is the queue times during peak hours, that's all. And during peak hours, surv queue times is 10 minutes in EU; as a killer it is instant.
Everybody is using exponential.
CoH didn't get nerfed at all unless from the PTB to Live release and it was a slight nerf.
DH will never be removed.
Icon system is in the road map.
Sry but i think you are playing at a below average MMR, and maybe soloQ, that's why you do not see how strong the survivors are.
Sunday evening, 10 trials with my SWF :
- we won the 10 games (3+ escapes)
- 3 killers have DC'ed
- all were mad at the end of the trial
- none of us had DH/DS
Ye okay survivors do not need a nerf, go on let's go 100% win rate 😂
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That is why the devs have to rework the maps first and the hook designs.
But players liek you will cry cause if you find the survivors weak atm with the current 10 strong loops/jungle gyms state of the game, if a balance work around the map is done, you won't be able to deal with it...
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Right, are you one of those people who think entity blocker and stuff like the OoO nerfs were unfair?
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Nothing prevents the Survivors from doing Generators as fast as possible. There's no difference between efficiency from both sides.
Without slowdown Perks, Survivors are OP (they're really good even with slowdown Perks). Without DS and BT, Killers are pretty good, and with them, they're ok, if not weak
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Well I agree that 4 SWF on comms are broken, but you can't balance around that.
Yes I mostly play as solo, with a good SWF group I had same results.
The main thing balancing around 4 SWF is going to destroy the game, most would quit
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And since it isn't balanced around them (3/4 people swf), casual killer are already quitting en masse and I don't see you advocating for them?
Also,
- lose a few thousand casual survivor: Oh queue times during prime time got way better
- lose a few thousand casual killer: Damn queue times went from a few minute to an hour during prime time.
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There are way less casual killer than casual survivor, and from business perspective it only makes sense to favor the bigger consumer base, add to the fact survivor mains way more likely to spend on the game.
And as you say survivors outnumbering killer 1:10. So is it makes any sense to lose so huge amount of consumers and playerbase?
For what? So that killers can have effortless 4K all the time.
Before evening too much killer and you need to wait up to 10+ min to get a game.
As said dbd is life are survivors, should be respected more, instead caving to killer main demands who want 4k all the time perklese
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Then remove the SWF option :).
Cause high MMR is like 75% SWFs now.
And well i don't know if you have noticed it but most players are already quitting. The most well known streamers have massively left. The average players count on steam went from 62k to 30k in a few months.
It is over.
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Its a lie spread by streamers, like Dowsey remember before MMR he had 4k games 200+ in a row, and he is angry that can't do it anymore, he loved to destroy newbies before the game didn't had any mmr.
Its true there is player decrease but what you see resident evil fans leaving the game, its only natural, the 100k was a big spike, which now goes back to normal.
If you didn't notice the game always loses players from winters to spring, you can check at march-april the player numbers always the lowest. You will see an increase in may, provided that the survivor nerfs won't make players quit
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Both sides are equally important, Survivors shouldn't be treated with more respect than Killers. What you're saying is that Killers are meaningless drones that are there to be a toy for the Survivors.
Killers carry the game, not the Survivors. No one really cares about playing Meg or even Laure Strode, people want to play as Michael Myers, Freddy Krueger, Amanda Young, Ghostface.
Survivors already are the priority when it comes to balance, it's why there are only 2 viable Killers in the entire game
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It will remain a meta perk because of the nature of Boons that BHVR refuses to say is a bad idea.
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The game has never lost so many players during months.
Moreover saying that the 100k peak was thanks to the RE chapter is a general lie that many in the community believe or want to believe.
The RE chapter has been released in June 2021 (15th).
DbD reached the 82k peak and 50k average players in May 2021, prior to the RE chapter release date.
Today's playerbase is as low as the one DbD has had in March 2020.
If you think the game is in a healthy state, you are delusional, clearly.
There is a difference between having constant 3k+ cause there is a weak link in the survivors team and being totally powerless with most killers at high level.
High MMR is 80% Nurse/Blight with some Spirit. All other killers are non existent because they cannot be played.
Also the decrease in player count has just started with the SBMM/CoH release. The community is massively leaving and there have been polls with 30k+ votes saying that the SBMM is the main issue.
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If there is no killer left, there is no DbD.
Thinking it is a good strategy to favor survivors is the worst business decision BHVR has taken (as it is what they have done for 2 years straight now, favoring survivors).
BHVR are trying to develop a killer bot cause there are not enough players in this role... I hope you will enjoy to play against bots cause it will happen this year, be sure about it.
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######### is wrong with you? We are all worth the same here because if you use that brain of your for half a second you will see if bhvr would do as you say and ignore the killer because the money comes with the survs then the game would just die because we are no bots that work for your entertainment.
Not only do you have a totally wrong and twisted look on the game balance and cry about nerfs and buffs that aren't even live yet you are also a totally stuck up survivor bias ######### because you really think you survs are holy and right and the killer should dance for your fun
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There are way less casual killer than casual survivor
And how do you know that? And please don't tell me "from the way they play" because that's hard subjective and I could say the same about the survivor i face half the time.
from business perspective it only makes sense to favor the bigger consumer base, add to the fact survivor mains way more likely to spend on the game.
And as you say survivors outnumbering killer 1:10
And the each trial needs a 1:4 ratio for short queue times and according to your argumentation it's better to let that ratio become something like 1:20 is better than getting it closer to the 1:4 which is against any logic.
Less killer -> longer queue times for survivor -> the survivor get more frustrated since they have to wait longer for each trial and even moreso if those trials also don't go the way they like
For what? So that killers can have effortless 4K all the time.
Sorry but a 4k is and was never "effortless" except in a Mismatch against potatoes or as a really good nurse coupled with the old, old instant ebony Mori. Everything else still need minimum 4 successful chases plus mistakes from survivors.
Before evening too much killer and you need to wait up to 10+ min to get a game.
Do you know why killer queue times are long during the day?
Player, that play killer AND survivor, play killer more during the day since they don't have to deal with swf as much then and maybe can't play with their friends which might be at work/school and go back playing survivor/swf in the evening.
As said dbd is life are survivors, should be respected more
For every trial you need 4 survivor and one killer, without the latter there is no game and I don't see a shortage of the former.
Also respect? Where the hell is the respect from survivor for killer, especially the ones that play fair or even friendly?
I tell you, as someone that has played fair and even FOR the survivor for the last 2 years, there mostly isn't. Not even in a fourth of my games did i see any respect but instead the usual cliche behaviour (GG ez) or in the "best" case indifference. Not even a GG if they didn't win.
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Would have to be some pretty big nerfs. Nerfs to the mechanics of the survivor role itself, not just to a few perks. Maybe not even then.
The DS nerf was going to make survivors quit en masse, but I can't say I saw any reduction in my survivor queue times afterwards.
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Survivor is still just as easy as it's always been.
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First of all most Killers dont want a effortless 4k games because tbh that's boring. Most Killers want fun games where the 2k 2e ratio works.
CoH was nerfed multiple times because it was way too powerful for thee type of perk it is. Boons are ment to be weaker since survivors can relight the totems or move the boon a infinite number of times. Having 7sec heals was too much. After the next fix to it, CoH will be more fair and still be strong since it still give self heal to everyone and it also gives a +50% healing speed boost.
You argue that because there are more survivors than killers then BHVR should cater to the Survivors because they are the life of the game.....false. what do you think will happen if all the Killers leave the game.....the game dies. SBMM and CoH caused many killers to either switch to survivor or quit all together.
Dead Hard you say will either be removed or made useless. You can blame survivors who have been using it beyond what it was ment to be used for. BHVR has said using DH for distance was not what it was supposed to be used for, that's why they are looking into it and more than likely they will keep the IFrames but remove the distance gained.
Boil Over was being abused by survivors so they reworked it.
Your posts just proves that you have no idea the real issues with the game. Unbalanced large maps make applying pressure with any Killer without a "travel" power to make. 16 Perks vs 4 Perks shows that Killers need to be stronger.
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There is no respect from survivors in 90% of games. Play dirty, no need to play fireplay. Survivors don't deserve this.
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Exactly the point. If survivor perks are nerfed further, it doesn't change the fact that the killers can still easily 3k or 4k for most of the spectrum of MMR by playing "dirty". The face camping someone to death as a strategy needs to die. It is fun for no one in a match, it is just highly effective and so gets overused. Tunnelling someone out 30 seconds into a match is also poor form, even if it was a survivor missplay and the victim was farmed. Do you think the guy that got deleted had fun?
These streaks people sight as important data only exist at the extremes of killer or survivor skill, and I'd wager represent less than 0.01% of the playerbase. That small percentage of people do not keep the lights on at behavior. Removing tools for either side for fun engaging chases, is NOT an answer.
Finally, dead hard is not a problem, I'm a midling killer at best( i play doctor and billy fyi) and you know what I do, I wait an extra 2 seconds in chase to bait out the dead hard and then down them. This is not rocket science and really, if a survivor BEATS me with a dead hard play, good for them. They used skill and did something cool. Because just pressing 'e' does not equal win. Maybe, the only nerf I could see be applied would be preventing its use to jump over a trap. Maybe.
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Yeah, nobody complains about DH when the Survivors are bad.
It's when Survivors aren't bad that it becomes an issue.
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So your saying that as a good killer, there are no strategies for dealing with a 2m distance gain?
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And what most people complain about is not the dead hard to doge, which can be baited out or waited for but the dead hard for distance aka they use it before you even have tike to wait or are in range to do anything.
With that they gain 3 meters which amounts to 5 seconds catch-up time which means another 20 meter traveled before you are back at square one and in that tike they can vault a window or drop a pallet and there i nothing the killer can do without playing on of the few specific characters.
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Oh no, 2 killer buffs????
Legion is getting a 5th hit down ability. THis gonna destroy the game!!
The horror!
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Against good players there aren't as they will often use it to get to a safe pallets/window.
A DH well used = extra 30 seconds of chase minimum, sometimes it can go to 45 seconds if the map layout is OP.
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How is dead harding for distance any different then, lithe, sprint burst, or balanced landing. They all grant 150% speed for 3 seconds, which if I am doing my math right is a ~5m distance gain on the killer (4m/s * 150% = 6m/s for 3 seconds = 18 meters of distance traveled, killer travels 4.6*3 - 13.8 m or 4.4*3=13.2 m depending on running speed).
After dead hard do all these other perks need to get nerfed next?
Of course, perks should grant the user of the perk an advantage when used?
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Imagine trying to hold the devs hostage by saying an entire side should be exempt from nerfs.
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You cant compare dh to other perks because dh works on command and has i frames
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I think got to do with survivors got total control all they have to do be injured and press a button at the right time but with lithe, sprint burst, or balanced landing you got to do something to get that boost.
lithe: find something to vault at right time.
balanced landing: falling from great heights need to find good play to fall.
sprint burst: you got to hold on to it walking around the map
all 3 perks survivors don't have total control like with deadhard
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Yes they must all be removed. If you know how to play you do not need those perks. There are way too many loops for those perks to be used.
If you rely on them to perform, it means you are a terrible player.
There has been a period where i didn't use any of those perks and well it did not change anything to me, i was still as strong as before.
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The current ratio of survivors to killers is staggering. The survivor community needs to take several hits to try to sort this mess bhvr created with their balance team.
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Every killer is able to get 2k/2e because of SBMM, meaning that every killer is viable according to the developers standards. Nurse is able to break the 2k/2e rule that the developers have decided is how players are balanced.
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Aren't you arguing logically then that those perks aren't overpowered? If it didn't change the outcome whether you used it or not then their power level relative to the perks you did use was the same.
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I get instant queues all morning long. It has long been observed that the time of day matters a lot for queue time. So this might not be the best gage of relative game balance.
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A draw doesn't mean that a Killer's viable
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So, how long does it take for a Killer to catch up to someone using Sprint Burst, vs someone using Dead Hard?
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Of course killer mains need 4k all the time, maybe 3k if they pity hatch the last one
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If they SB, I can choose not to engage them and wait for a better moment.
DH turns a 15 second chase into a 45 second chase.
It would seem that you aren't seeing the immense value of it. Try to play against some good Survivors who use DH to extend loops instead of bashing their faces into walls.
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Killers want to have the ability to be able to get a 4K, not get a 4K every game. It's why at high mmr some killers are basically non-existent.
But you really shouldn't be throwing stones like that since this topic you made screams "I want my 4e every game".
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2 kill and 2 escape is balanced, however lately killer mains demanding 75% kill rate at very least, most killer way above 50% right now. But of course this isnt enough, they need to win all the time
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