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if i could have a crack at the artist lore
(note that most of this is just my opinion, and that i'm not requesting this to be finalized by bhvr, also this is lore, so if your not into please don't comment on it and be like "uhh i'm not into the lore of this game")
so we all know that the artist lore has alot of flaws, and i would like to address and try and fix some of the flaws, and add some of my own personal made ideas into the chapter. honestly, Carmina's story comes off just misery porn if anything. it's fine if they wanted to make Carmina's story tragic, as it's a common theme with dbd killers. ill be using pixel bushes video on the artist as my main references of talking points. so i have a few suggestions as to how Carmina's lore can be fixed.
- have Carmina challenge her father's narrative: the biggest piece of evidence that Carmina's lore is just one giant piece of a sad fanfic, is her conflict with her father. her father is extremely abusive; blaming her for her mother leaving and the death of her brother(keep her brother in mind for later in the post;) neither Carmina or the lore really challenge her father's narrative, she just takes it and gets more and more sad. so give her some agency, have her or the story challenge her father's blame for her mothers departure. it can be in any way, just have her doing something.
- give us details about the black veils activity's: it can be argued the considering the time period the story takes place, adding in the black veil is just a way for bhvr too play it safe, and not talk about the events surrounding 1970's Chile. but if bhvr is gonna talk about the black veil, they need to give us more details about what they were doing then what we wear given. we got some information from the twins lore, but the artist lore could have gone a lot further and given us more information.
- the ######### crows: i know that this part can be brushed off, as crows have been established as servants of the entity, but can we please have someone in the story notice that crows don't live in south america.
a new suggestion for a survivor: so this is something i'v been thinking about, and i think it's actually a way to make Carmina's lore properly tragic. i think that bhvr choosing Jonah as the survivor was a missed opportunity. not only that, but Jonah is pretty disliked as a character among est the fandom. so i have an idea, make Carmina's brother, Matias the survivor to come along with her. let's say the Matias never died, and we follow his pov through his story. hears a few plot points i think his story should be about.
- his relationship with carmina. have this point follow him in his child hood when he's say five to six. have him experience abuse by his father's hand, and have Carmina there to defend him against there father. have the story show us there relationship, and how Carmina's disappericne had on Matias.
- Matias as an adult: now, lets have the second part of the story take place when Matias take place when he's older. he leaves his father when he is 19, and have him taken by the entity when he's 22. during the gap, he tries to live a normal life, while being affected by his countries current state. make some commentary about life as a Chilean citizen during the Pinochet regime. i haven't figured out the detials yet, but let's say he some how got a lead to where his sister went off to. so he goes to the grave yard and is taken by the entity.
i think this would work as a sad element because it's a twisted form of fate for Carmina. her brother who she loved with all her heart, and who she protected from their abuser, suffers at her hand. someone she's been trying to protect all her life to make sure he doesn't get hurt in anyway, is now having his blood spilled, and being stabbed onto a meat hook by her. it would serve as a sort of tragic irony, that's she's hurting someone that she loves so much.
over course these are all my personal suggestions, let me know what you think
(p.s. sorry for any spelling or grammar mistakes)
Comments
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Behavior has two types of Killers in terms of Lore:
- Actual Homicidal Terrors
- Survivor +
That's it.
Clown, Doctor, Deathslinger, Oni - these are cold blooded (or Hot blooded) killers that have histories of death and violence. What's compelling about their lore is how it shows their twisted descent into madness and evil. Survivors ought to be afraid of them. They are not simply twisted by the Entity... they were will enough horrifying in the material plane.
Spirit, Hag, Trapper, Twins, Wraith, ARTIST - these are soft souls and gentle individuals that were pushed through very hard circumstances and were forced to adapt. We are meant not to feel fearful or horrified by them, but sympathy. They are not at all bad people, but they are victims of circumstance that the Entity has twisted into powerful killers.
If you ask me, they should push these 'Sympathetic' killers into the other category.
Killers should be horrifying and scary. Their lore should be a spooky story you tell children at bed time, no - as you worded it - "torture porn". The Hag's lore shouldn't make me feel bad for her and weep tears of empathetic sorrow - it should make my toes curl into my socks and my jaw clench as I envision her ripping my liver out and feasting on my misery and fearful screams more than my disemboweled body.
IMO, the Artist should have been a twisted birdkeeper that had some sort of avian fascination - but instead of her art being political, it should have been dark. She should have become a serial killer that used the blood of her victims to create a dense ichor that she used as ink.
Perhaps having no Tongue or arms is what was put upon her by the physical abuse of her father - and the genius of her artistry stems from her determined use of prosthetics, mouth, and feet.
And perhaps she kept crows as pets, and harbored a massive sanctuary for her lurid fascination with the species - which is Entity driven. She could use the crows as murder tools, training them to feast on her victims. Maybe she trains the crows to act as her hands and to aid in her art by training them on how to create it for her.
It would give a lot more gravity than before at the very least.
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So you basically want every killer to follow the same formula over and over again with no room for deviation is what you're saying?
Post edited by Smoe on1 -
No - I want killers to be KILLERS.
For instance, the Blight was once a Survivor, but through his pursuit of survival, he was twisted into the abomination - and survives at the determent of others. Smart. Sympathetic.
There must be a vector, a reason, a call.
Twins lore is a bit lukewarm, but it's very depressing and morose. You're meant to feel bad for Charlotte. She doesn't want to hurt people, she was tricked! She's not a bad person, she's just being manipulated! Oh no!
Spirit isn't bad, evil, or even difficult to understand. Her dad murdered her and her mother - now she's angry! GRR! Why is she chasing survivors? Entity reasons, move along.
Why is the Wraith chasing survivors, when he actively despises murderers and believes strongly in his own brand of justice? Entity reasons, move along.
If The Hag was kidnapped and tortured by Cannibals, why is she living their lifestyle instead of escaping? Why does she want to hurt and eat survivors? Entity reasons, move along.
On the other Hand.
Gotta feel bad for Hillbilly, he was neglected and hurt by his parents his entire life. But you should be scared of him, because he's very territorial and antisocial. He has no qualms with skinning anyone who crosses him, even US!
Gotta feel bad for Nurse, she was a good person - but her mental health declined and she killed several people during an instance of intense Psychosis. She's an insane zombie now - and she's hell bent on killing US!
Gotta feel bad for Huntress, she isn't evil - but she does what she does and hunts prey. Including US!
Gotta feel bad for Plague, she tried to save her people and couldn't. But her devotion is undying and she's willing to make any sacrifice needed, she'll do anything - including torturing US!
you can have sympathetic killers, but you have to include the part that... you know... makes them a killer.
Having a non sequitur 'now they serve the Entity' line at the end is not compelling.
Killers must be killers, survivors must be survivors.
You must include the elements of their story that turn them into killers.
Creativity and Quality are not mutually exclusive elements when crafting a story.
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Alright well, personally i very much disagree with alot of what you just said, but each to their own i guess.
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I quite like having the sympathetic ones, the sadistic are the ones I most dislike.
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Honest question:
You don't even want a transition?
Would having any form of danger or horror in their lore ruin the experience for you?
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you explain your argument well
but you need to remember that the entity feeds on emotion, and by harnessing that emotion it can turn otherwise sympathetic characters into killers. And because of that, you can turn many of the character's stories on their heads.
Charlotte never wanted to kill, but as an outcast she needs to kill anyone she comes across because they're a threat to her! Including US!
Spirit is so fueled by rage that she'll take it out on anyone she sees! Including US!
That's why Artist's lore...isn't that good. She doesn't have anything going for her except for "bad thing happened to me"
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While there is an aspect of taste to discuss - you're 100% correct.
I just wish there was a bit more explanation between their 'assimilation' and what they are today.
A lot of the lore, to me, sounds exactly like 'bad thing happened to me' and now they have super powers and do the big kill.
Even if it was just a couple of sentences, I'd love to have a little more of a transition to play around with in the lore.
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i would have them change hags lore if anyone
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A transition would be nice but not necessary for me, just a bonus.
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I agree with you. Your arguments are solid. I would love to see more sadistic killlers like Clown or Ghostface added to the game. Not killers who were wronged and are now angry about it, or something like Legion where it was just one kill. I would love to see some more savage killers added who just enjoyed killing and being evil. Many original killers don't feel evil enough. Just my opinion though.
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