Another month, another 3k players lost
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All I know is I'm going to have a lot of fun playing Evil Dead with some of my close friends who are massive Evil Dead fans. I'm not too knowledgeable on the franchise, but I'll play whatever keeps my friends happy.
One just likes Assym, the second only plays DBD because we're friends, the third just likes being toxic.
I do enjoy dbd, but DBD is enjoyable far more with friends and if my friends jump ship, so do I.
Plus being the Kandarian Demon that plays deviously and isnt a chewtoy upon starting the game is a plus.
We do like not feeling like a chewtoy unless we play a select few killers.
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As long as SBMM exists the game will continue to bleed imo. The game just isn't made for competitive matchmaking and I believe it's burning a lot of their long time players out.
I was hoping the matchmaking tests would result in a total scrapping of their current system rather than small tweaks.
The mid-high end DBD meta is really unfun and stale for both sides. Killer is miserable to play into a competent survivor team with good perks unless you play a select few killers with good addons.
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People realize how cyclic playerbase works challenge (impossible)
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I'm not sure if ED will be good or not but I've loved the movies from the start so I'm curious. There are several other games in the genre expected to be released this year though. I'm not sure if they are competitors or simply playing in the same neighborhood.
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Just steam numbers.
But i bet if the general playerbase drops they will do something. But they won´t tell us.
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It does look interesting, too bad that Boss Team Games/Boss Protocol are the publisher for it.
Post edited by Smoe on0 -
Only 3k on PC. more if include console
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The matchmaking system is so bad. I don't play much anymore.
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I stopped playing on PS4 because of the worsening performance issues and general neglect of the other formats; I haven’t felt valued as a player/customer for a long time now and must assume I’m not alone in feeling this way.
As you say Steam figures aren’t everything but I imagine a lot of people have also stopped playing on older formats, complaining on the forum, and gave up screaming into the void asking for improvements only to be all but ignored; while new content that makes things worse each time is consistently rolled out for everyone else in spite of it.
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The sad thing is that all of these issues are discussed in the forums multiple times every day, yet there’s no urgency by BHVR to address the glaring issues. I guess they are trying to change the SBMM system to make it “better”, but I think it’s yet to be seen whether that will help anything. A lot of people want to see the SBMM system removed, which will never happen. BHVR are instead doubling down on this broken system.
Everything else you mentioned has been a problem for a long time and we’re seeing the result of not addressing these problems in the continued player count decline.
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hate to say it but i don't find this game that enjoyable anymore, due to a lack of killer variety (haven't even faced Sadako once like ever).
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Till sbmm is gone completely there's no future for this game, i was a big fan, now i don't even play it anymore, they deserve it for never fix any problem
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Evil Dead looks very cool and I want to try it for sure
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Trust me you don’t want to face Sadoku lmao
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Honestly, when I used to get off of work, I couldn’t wait to start playing the game. Now, I rather go lay down and take a nap and just relax (it what I’m doing now while browsing on my phone). It doesn’t help them that I now have 5 brand new kittens and their stupid mommy to keep me company. They’re more fun to watch than it is to play these days.
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Yeah Bruce campbell is awesome. I was thinking about preordering
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The trailer looks a little weak but im a fan of the franchise so i will give it a try. Im really excited to get more details on the new texas chainsaw game, the teaser looks pretty cool.
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I would hope so but at this point it would have to be game changing levels of big for killer and survivor that have never been seen before. I agree that I hope they pull it off.
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Right? Felt it too.
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Seeing what good players do with Sadako compared to what they can do with killers like Myers, Trapper and Clown without too much effort, pretty much is a huge counterclaim to her being dumpster tier.
She's heavily reliant on being the better mindgamer, which is actually refreshing, where other killers like Blight and Nurse often are brute force killers where survivors have to mindgame hard.
As for your points:
the grind (which they created); technically yes, but at the time of creation, DBD didnt have the expectation it has now. Fixing it isnt that simple, takes time and resources. Should they have looked in it earlier? Yeah, definitely, Pyramid Head was the last killer where it was somewhat fine, it should have been looked at from that moment. But before that? Not really that big of a grind.
tunneling meta (which they created); Nope, killers created it, you might claim there has been a lack of interest in fixing this meta, as perks arent really fixes, but BT and DS did have a big impact on that meta for a while.
half of killers being awful (which they created); Not all killers can be S-tier, half the killers arent awful, they simply are not gonna be capable of facing S-tier survivors. If all killers were equally good, then all survivors you face should be equally capable of countering those killers. Thats not really the case. The healthiest balance is a bell-curve. The current balance is close to a bell-curve. It's not neccesarily the killers being awful, its survivors you face being too good for the killer you're playing.
toxicity (which they created); You cannot create toxicity
MMR(which they created); Yeah, but its being worked on.
Meta being the same for five years(which they created); Objectively wrong, because there was a camping meta, a tunneling meta, a chasing meta and a genpatrol meta. That's just the killer side. Then there was a long loop meta, short loop meta, healing meta, genrush meta and even a flashlight meta. The meta has switched a lot, it just bounces between a tunnel meta and a gen regression meta right now depending on whether there are killers who can tunnel hard or not(if killers get nerfed, its often due to their massive power to tunnel).
lack of variety (which they created); There is a huge amount of variety, but that variety wont be used in higher MMR, even if all current meta perks are nerfed. Thing is, once there is a "best build" for a certain killer, that build will practically be static and only really vary with different addons. Same would be for a best build for solo surv, or a best build for SWF. There might be slight variance between certain combinations, but there is always going to be a list of 24 perks(out of 100) that would practically cover all possible strong combinations.
So out of all your points, 1 is fully legit, but being worked on, 1 that is semi-legit, but only because the game lived to be 5 years in the first place, the rest is what the players have created with the tools that the devs have given. Are those tools perfect? No, but thats more because the players are like toddlers. They run around with scissors, stabbing hundreds of people while laughing their asses off only to be stabbed by another toddler with scissors and then crying that that one toddler shouldnt be running with scissors.
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Yep. I've noticed a lot less SUS behavior in all of my matches (Survivor and Killer).
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- The tunneling meta is created by BhVR because of the numerous second chance perks survivors get, numerous escape options they have, and the fact that the killer is always operating on a time constraint. Perks like CoH incentivize tunneling because of the abundance of healing, thus increasing the time it takes to down a survivor and penalizing the killer significantly for allowing anyone to heal. The meta is created based on the rules of the game. The players don't make the rules for optimal strategies, they come up with the strategies based on the rules.
- Yes, not all killers can be S tier. We've had the same killers at S tier for years. The same killers at garbage tier for years. Certain killers just have no play making abilities. The survivor is the playmaker and these killers rely on the survivor messing up. There should be basic killers for sure but not so many.
- Toxicity is created by incentivizing toxic gameplay like tunneling and camping.
- Survivor meta has been the same for years. DH/SB, DS, BT, UB/IW. Killer meta has more variety but for the most part has always relied on regression perks heavily. As for your description of metas, I have no idea what you're talking about. on many of them
- Gen patrolling as meta? As opposed to what, standing still? It's literally the objective of the game.
- Long/short loop meta? You mean looping? Another core objective of the game. This is opposed to what, standing still again? TBH, looping isn't even really meta and never has been. Just predrop and run.
- Genrush/healing has always been meta for survivor. That's the meta you nailed it.
- Camping/tunneling has always been meta for killer. That's the meta you nailed it.
- Regression has been meta for killers as well. You nailed it. So that's the meta for killers. Camp/tunnel and regress. For years. There aren't even any good camping/tunneling perks!!! Yet devs keep adding survivor perks which incentivize these things!!
- There is a lack of variety. The meta (tunnel/camp genrush/heal) has been the same. Seeing the same perks over and over again contributes to the lack of variety. The same game mode for years is a lack of variety.
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Her counterplay is the same counterplay as literally every other M1 killer. Throw a pallet and she can't get you. Flicker mindgames only work if survivors let them work. Otz was winning as her, but he didn't seem to particularly enjoy it. Her only real strength, mobility, can be taken away by survivors as well.
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It is concerning, but it might just be that DbD peaked last year, with the combination of an incredibly iconic chapter and the anniversary.
APvP games are pretty niche - and DbD's success was nothing short of amazing.
Weirdly, the meta is more varied than it has ever been on the killer end.
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- No, tunneling meta existed before. Second chance perks were introduced because of a tunneling meta. CoH doesnt even incentivise tunneling at all. You just chase a survivor, down them, hook them, chase another survivor, down them, hook them. Odds are that the survivor getting unhooked was getting healed by the survivor who unhooked them anyway.
- Objectively wrong. Myers has been there for a long time, but there were times where Legion was worse, where Pig was worse. There was a time where Myers was B-tier. Nurse has been the only consistent killer who has always been S-tier. The rest of killers have fluctuated based on available maps, perks, etc.
- It's not incentivized. Tunneling and camping often leads to only 1 kill. It's only when the lobby has random players who cannot communicate that tunneling and camping leads to victory.
- Perkwise maybe, but strategy-wise? There was a time where unhooking survivors ASAP was more beneficial than leaving them on hook for example, unless there was an ebony mori. As for the rest: a. as opposed to camping, yes. There is 2 main activities when you hook a survivor: 1. camp. 2. patrol gens. b. There is a difference between long loop(aka, holding w, going from tile to tile ASAP to save on resources) and short loops(pre-dropping pallets the moment you get to a tile to get the most of the tile before moving on). There have been days where pre-dropping pallets and sticking in the same area was much more beneficial than going from tile to tile. We are now in a tile to tile meta due to a lot of killers punishing survivors for being at a single area, while back in the day, survivors were punished much more harshly for going from tile to tile than otherwise. c. Genrush doesnt exist anymore, even with toolboxes, killers recieve plenty of time to cause a ruckus. Healing, well, duh, its a core mechanic, not meta. d. As shown in A, no, its not been. There was a long time where going away from the hook ASAP to cause survivors to unhook even faster was much more beneficial than camping. That was right after the introduction of BT in fact. e. well, 100% wrong, because there has been a long time where killers couldnt even regress gens. Let alone that Ruin didnt exist for an entire year and Pop didnt exist for at least another year. The meta was downing people as quickly as possible, learn things like moonwalking asap(I've seen players with 1000 hours who dont even bother moonwalking, it's quite beneficial and could have easily given them 5 more hooks than they ended up with). So no, objectively wrong, and I am talking from experience. Maybe what you say is true starting from late 2018/early 2019, but prior to that, the worst you would encounter was Billy with Ebony/Ivory Mori and Dying Light proxy-camping the obsession, when the rest of killers actually tended to be quite far away from the hook and rarely tunneled unless they were Bubba.
- Again, there isnt a lack of variety, its simply that there is a "best build". Nerfing all current meta perks isnt going to create more variety, its just gonna swap out the best builds with the second best builds. And the meta has bounced, it tends to follow which ever meta gets stirred up the most. If camping is the best strat, survivors will default to sitting on gens. If doing gens is the best strat, then killers will camp. If looping is better, survivors will actively search killers to distract, and patrolling gens would be the best strat.
Now, you can easily say that games will have a mixture of each, but that's not meta, that's simply mechanics. Healing is a mechanic, survivors being able to heal up isnt going to be meta. Whether or not survivors prioritize healing over anything else dictates whether it is meta or not. If survivors rather sit injured on a gen than heal up, would you really call healing meta? You do, but how is it even meta? If survivors heal up before doing gens, is genrushing meta? Obviously not, because they are healing up. You cannot have genrushing and healing both being meta at the same time, it's one or the other. Either they sit on gens injured, or they heal up before doing anything else. Just like patrolling gens and camping are seperate meta's. Either you're camping the hooks, or you're not. Different meta's can exist for/against different killers sure. Like how it's never been meta to heal up against a Legion unless he was actively coming for you. But that doesnt mean the meta doesnt change overall.
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Only on open strong pallets. Add walls and you can easily surprise survivors. Dowsey has clearly shown what is and isnt possible on a lot of maps.
As for Otz not enjoying her, so what? Otz also didnt enjoy playing Nurse, Bubba, Huntress, Doctor, Freddy, Myers. Otz really enjoys Nemesis, Pyramid Head, Trapper and Plague. Let alone that Otz also doesnt really enjoy Oni compared to Hag or Pinhead. Dowsey really enjoys Sadako. Is that a good argument? I wouldnt say so.
As for the mobility being taken away, not really. For survivors to actively take mobility away is survivors either having the upperhand or Sadako not pressuring the right sides. If you have 0 mobility on the map, you have survivors not doing gens, if survivors are not doing gens, that's free time to dedicate to breaking pallets/walls that need removing or even extra time you can dedicate to a chase if need be. Her strength is lack of visibility mid-chase, and you cant tell the difference between Sadako using her power or her breaking a pallet untill its too late to turn back. Let alone that you can pick survivors up without being blinded as survivors never get the timing right on the animation.
And I agree with many others that her speedboost after teleporting should be made basekit, as it's quite important, but the biggest mistake I have seen Sadako players make is not using teleports often enough. How often do survivors feel the need to even grab a tape in games you play against her? Not often, because Sadako isnt teleporting often.
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- What? You didn't even address my point. Tunneling existed before, sure. Tunneling is even more incentivized by BHvR because of the lost time from all the second chance perks. At least before the second chance perks you could go for 12 hooks without worrying that the 30 seconds you spent in chase will be wasted because of a Dead Hard or CoH.
- How is it objectively wrong? Pig was worse at one point, she is still bad. Still awful. Legion was OP on release but quickly nerfed into awfulness. The rest of the killers have a general rating based on their performance across all maps. This performance has been the same for years.
- No. Tunneling against SWFs is even more effective because of altruism. Tunneling against SWFs is also effective because they lack the coordination to realize tunneling is occurring and work on gens effectively. Getting a kill before 3 gens are completed greatly swings things in favor of the killer.
- In terms of strategy the meta has always been the same.
- You can patrol the gens around the hook. Also, killing someone early has always been a huge power boost for the killer. Maybe back when BNPs were OP gen patrolling was preferred over camping/tunneling but camping immediately after the first hook isn't preferred anyway. It's when the survivor is somewhat close to reaching second stage when camping gets juicy. SoloQ will at least be near to try and get the save and SWF are even more inclined to save. SWFs may stand a chance because they're on comms and can focus gens but even then an early kill is a huge boon to the killer.
- This was when infinite loops and uber loops were common. These were terrible from a design standpoint and removed. They should have never existed. Since their removal, the optimal strategy is to not be greedy, drop the pallet to be safe, and go to the next tile.
- Genrush does exist. It's the objective of the game for survivors. It's literally how they win.
- Going away from the hook to attract survivors to unhook because of no DS/BT was suitable if you knew another survivor was close by. Other than that, again, proxy camp the hook. BNPs pretty much cost killers the game anyways.
- You're right. Hex: Ruin wasn't added until about 6 months after release. So regression hasn't been meta for the whole six years. Just 5.5 years.
- Healing is meta because of how easy it is do with CoH, Self Care, SWF prevalence, and info perks like Empathy. Healing is always beneficial but the ease of it is and the frequency that it occurs is what makes it meta.
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You can take a tape out from a TV next to a gen, do the entire gen, and then go drop the tape off and suffer essentially 0 consequence for doing it.
Survivors with headphones are never going to be cut off by a Sadako teleporting in front of them. You can hear it a mile away, and attentive players will realize you have teleported.
A genrush SWF is gonna slam out the gens in like 4-5 minutes. Some of them don't even loop, cause they don't have to. They send you to a very survivor sided map and just predrop everything. Tell me what Sadako does against those types of teams? Besides dodge the lobby?
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DBD has less players now than it did in April of 2020.
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I got to disagree. She definitely isn't strong but she's definitely played more than Artist and Pinhead. Especially on launch day.
I feel the other issues in the game are the main problem and the release of Elden Ring didn't help either.
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Artist and Pinhead are significantly stronger. Artist I think people don't like her Aesthetics (funnily enough). Her sound effects are pretty cringe and the power isn't all that satisfying to use.
Pinhead requires such a level of mechanical skill to play well I assume most people who would be really good at him just play Nurse instead. They are extremely similar, except Nurse gets damage states for landing the shot. Pinhead gets a clown bottle, if RNG favors him and the chains don't break instantly.
Sadako is played because the power is fun and the character is really cool and fitting for the game. But that doesn't mean she's not super weak and frustrating to play. I think once the newness of the chapter wanes her pick rate will fall off the planet.
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It's also had multiple gigantic licenses since then.
You can't use that excuse for everything
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I agree with the other 2 killers being stronger. My point only was that Sadako being "dumpster tier" isn't part of the reason the player base is dropping. If she was less fun to play as, and a lot stronger the playerbase still would've dropped by the same amount.
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Potentially. In the past when they released a new killer the Q times were backed up as killer for days. Deathslinger I remember it was solid weeks of increased killer Q times. The last few releases still had instant killer Q times.
MMR is really the only thing I can think of that would be hurting the game so much. DBD as an E-sport is stupid, and promotes an extremely unfun / cheesy playstyle on both sides.
And the worst part is that even after all this time it still barely works. I never thought I would say I wanted old ranks back but I would take them over MMR any day. It wasn't the best but at least the matches were somewhat consistent. Right now I can have full meta SWF gods one game, and then get babies who literally die because they forgot to drop off their Sadako tape the next.
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It feels miserable, because you gotta know that more than 75% of the game's core issues could be fixed with a little bit of direction and one week of solid work.
Cranking out dozens and dozens (if not HUNDREDS) of cosmetic items, having modelers shovel filler content for the next tome - that's not going to increase revenue.
Adding portraits to the end-game screen should take a team of 10 people (less than 1% of their employee workforce) a single week to implement. Do a couple of closed tests to make it stable, bake it into the PTB by next week. All of the players will be happy, nobody will be upset, and it took very little time or effort.
Hell, you could probably get a single employee to code this with a tiny bit of oversight.
Coding updates for perks should be high on their list of priorities. Currently, Killer metas and survivor metas are driving down player retention as well as DLC sales. (Who wants to buy the twin DLC? The perks suck! Nightmare On Elm Street is probably not pulling a lot of purchases recently either!) What if I told you that adding 1% to Fire-Up on the backend numbers would take virtually no effort and increase the perk's use and DLC sales by more than 1%?
There are over 100 survivor perks, but less than 20 of them are getting any real screen time.
There are almost 100 killer perks, and fewer than 20 are even considered any good.
There's 27 killers in the game and 19 of them are B tier or lower.
Right now, Behavior has a problem on their hands. It isn't a problem with content - it's a problem with QUALITY.
As it stands, the content they generate is ~20% quality, and ~80% problem.
Until Sadako is worth buying, or the perks make the game interesting, people have no reason to buy her.
While the community has a lot of very clever and seriously lucrative ideas for cosmetics - we get things like Shamrock Blight.
While there may be an issue up top at the executive level where the big bosses OVER the dev team don't understand that Quality drives profits much, much more effectively than Content does - there's another explanation at play.
From my experience in the production field, there's a lot of red tape and bottlenecks that constrict and murder progress. Hearing that a company has 100 employees may make you think that they are a powerhouse, a machine. But then you learn that there are only 3 employees generating content and only 5 implementing it in any meaningful way - and that the other 92 employees are administrative and support.
This usually means that production has to go way up to the tippy top and come back down on the other side - choked by red tape.
Loads of project loads fall between the cracks as it trades hands so many times, and the responsibilities of the 100 employees concentrate onto the shoulders of 8 so thoroughly that many things simply get buried under task lists.
I'm not sure what leadership looks like over at Behavior, maybe it's best we don't know for everyone's sakes - but here are the three most important things that we have to remember:
1.) Behavior is a company
2.) A lot of these problems can be solved
3.) The people who work on the game LOVE the game.
I really hope that they can find their footing and continue to enhance the Dead By Daylight experience, learning from past mistakes and paying mind as to avoid such pitfalls in the future.
While I share the community's worries that the game may fall out of grace - the knowledge that such an instance is completely avoidable is enough to know that there are good people inside of the company that see what we see, and likely are trying as hard as they can to get where they need to be to make those changes for US to enjoy.
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Hi Valik, if you really think they love the game, they would've communicated with the community alot alot better.
Just take a look at the most recent Dev Q&A. The lead dev himself don't even understand DBD at all. "Comparing it with Hockey"
Here. Have a video that I randomly picked when I searched for "DBD Dev"
This is not the only video from DBD influencers.
The grin is so telling, he isn't even trying to hide it - he knows people will be pissed and he is reveling in it. These devs just hate their community.
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Yea back before MMR people would've played the new killers for at least a week before going back to their mains. I think MMR has hurt this game a lot unfortunately.
Was the old system perfect? Absolutely not but I think people enjoyed the mix of easier and sweater games. Those same god tier swfs probably face Nurse and Blight more than half their games and those aren't fun matches. Personally also believe some content creators don't help the game either.
We'll see how these MMR changes make the game feel. Hopefully the make it a lot better to play.
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Just for the record sbmm is why I am still playing, match making was a disaster before. People seem to forget the corner crouching claudettes, and urban evasion everywhere. Now you "level" passed those players and never see them again. The MMR is amazing, sure I die half of my matches, but, that is what is supposed to happen when I play people my skill level.
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Exactly, before you was forced to play in SWF
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I thought majority players are console. why don't you guys count those
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I've seen the video - and I'm not completely disagreeing with you at all.
But these are not ALL the employees, nor are these the people that actually slave day in and day out chewing through code and wrangling engine renders.
I honestly think that the company has a vast issue with top-down leadership, from the looks of it, which is sad, because there is a lot of passion that is put into the work that makes up Dead By Daylight.
There are tons of systems where the grunts who do the legwork are teeming with great ideas and ambition, but poor leadership choices from the executive levels and strangling pipeline inefficiencies mixed with chaotic production changes from all sides can smother the good willed and hard working employees under a blanket of antipathy.
It is not to say that this is a thing that is happening for sure in the company. But my years in the production field give me the gut feeling that this may be one of those tragic instances.
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I still get matched with players that hide the entire game. SBMM didn't make it any better for me. But I guess I'm just a terrible survivor myself and that's why I get matched with these players. They are matched with me because they are close to my ''skill level''.😑
Or maybe, just maybe it's because I don't escape every game because I moslty play solo and this ''skill'' based system only looks at escapes...
I can do 2 gens, do great in chase, be a great teamplayer but die because I get left behind and don't escape. Everyone else who haven't played well can get out and their MMR goes up and next game I will play with teammates that have a even lower MMR. Because I played terrible the previous game. Great system!😄
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I agree with you. I still love the game and want to see it improve!
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and yet the game continues to be alive…
I know it must really make some of you miserable knowing that the game you hate so much is still here.
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Battlefield 2042 is also alive.
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Except that Battlefield was a flop, DBD was not.
Apples and Oranges.
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3k? Is already 4k and the month is not over yet, keep going bhvr, soon you will regret your lovely sbmm
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This could be the case but I think there are some foundational technical issues with the game.
For instance, back during release you could change your bloodpoints by editing a file.
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Absolutely.
The code is very much muddled, and it's hard to improve on a house with a poor foundation.
We can only hope that such things will be overcome eventually.
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A lot of people tend to isolate one of the problems, rather than the combination of it all. I don't think SBMM alone is killing the game; anyone pre-RE chapter will remember the masses clamoring for a better matchmaking system. I think it's a result of how the system itself brings out the worst aspects of the game and its outdated features. Issues that were once easily overlooked as "quirky parts of the game" are now being highlighted to the majority.
I also think we have a lot of the new players to credit, for coming into the game with unbiased eyes, and bringing to light a lot of the issues us more seasoned players may have just gone blind to.
I think they're slowly starting to realize and take the steps to fix the game. Better late than never, but ideally, they keep up this momentum and continue making the experience less troublesome for both sides. It's been five years in the making, so I'm hoping this community uproar helps shed some light on issues once ignored in favor of the next big license or cosmetic.
... But I also pre-orded the Evil Dead game and will definitely be pouring hours into it, lol.
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