Welcome to the Borrowed Time Meta

Blueberry

@Visionmaker said:

@Blueberry said:

@Visionmaker said:

@PandaChris said:
As a player that just came back and plays about 70% killer and 30% survivor, why is tunneling a bad thing? I do not hook camp, but if i see a survivor going for a unhook, i will head to the hook. Normally by that time i am a little late getting there so i go after the unhooked injured survivor.

Isn't that the smart thing to do? go after the injured survivor that takes 1 hit and shorter chase rather then the other survivor that needs two hits and a prolonged chase? If i end up going after the survivor that needs two hits, the unhooked survivor can just get healed then its back to a long chase and 2 hits again.

I noticed someone said just grab them off or hit them when they are trying to pull the other survivor off, but correct me if im wrong the only real killers that can do that consistently is the nurse or billy (maybe spirit) with their extreme movement? with the other killers you would sorta have to patrol the hook, then get called a camper.

It's easy to do, low effort, and knocks players out of the game quickly. It is not fun to be on the receiving end, and it is not something the game wishes to encourage. You're basically chasing around a person that's Exposed past the first hook, and you'll always know where they are (by the hook)/when to chase them (when they are unhooked). It's smart unless the person is using Borrowed Time.

The easiest ways to combat this change is to walk away from the hook (MYC, BBQC, Devour Hope), use TR lowering perks (M&A or Insidious), use a stealth killer power, or facecamp. People who complain are just people who camp, like how they complained about every camping nerf.

Every killer can grab survivors off from unhooking. The best killer to do this is the Doctor. The worst is Freddy.

" it is not something the game wishes to encourage" this is just fake news.

The devs have said otherwise on stream and they do encourage it as a style of game play.

Panda is also right, it is very effective given the alternatives.

" It's easy to do, low effort, and knocks players out of the game quickly. It is not fun to be on the receiving end"
This sounds like something else I know called looping, yet all the survivors do that. There's a lot of hypocrisy is saying these things about tunneling/camping.

The new killer is literally anti-tunneling. Borrowed Time discourages camping and tunneling. The Chase Emblem discourages camping. Please stop saying fake news. lol

Which is why looping got nerfed like three times.

You really should watch the dev streams, you are wrong about a lot.

The new killer is "supposed" to be anti-tunneling, the reality is different right now however. BT encourages bad saves and wasn't put because the devs didn't want camping or tunneling, it was because enough baby survivors whined about it so they caved. Their stance on the subject hasn't changed, by their own words.

Nerfing looping dooesn't mean the devs discourage it, just that it's too strong.

ReneAensland

@Tzeentchling9 said:
CodyJia said:

Don't tunnel. Problem solved. 

Still have yet to see Survivors leave gens half finished to work on fresh ones.

This happens all the time!

Raccoon

Deep Wounds would be better, imo, if either:

A ) The timer counted down during the mending process
or
B ) As per Monto's suggestion, it required someone else to mend you

The second option plays into the killer's power/theme (grouping survivors), and provides a real drawback to the negative status effect, turning it from an inconvenience into a threat.

Rebel_Raven

Raccoon said:

Rebel_Raven said:

purebalance said:

@Raccoon said:
Oh, I've made sure that tunneling is no longer an option in my killer PTB games. 

I appreciate the suggestion and implicit acknowledgment that perks such as Dying Light and Remember Me have received a minor nerf as a result. 

Remember me is buffed by this. If you tunnel your obsession with Remember me, you only get 4 stacks. Try again.

You are confirming at the time of this posting hits while feral add tokens, such as in Remember Me?

All hits add tokens, friendo. 

Just making sure because Legion hits pretty quickly when feral, and perks like NOED do not work in feral mode, iirc. 

ReneAensland

@Raccoon said:
Deep Wounds would be better, imo, if either:

A ) The timer counted down during the mending process
or
B ) As per Monto's suggestion, it required someone else to mend you

The second option plays into the killer's power/theme (grouping survivors), and provides a real drawback to the negative status effect, turning it from an inconvenience into a threat.

I like this.
turning it from an inconvenience into a threat.
^^^

Raccoon

@ReneAensland said:

@Raccoon said:
Deep Wounds would be better, imo, if either:

A ) The timer counted down during the mending process
or
B ) As per Monto's suggestion, it required someone else to mend you

The second option plays into the killer's power/theme (grouping survivors), and provides a real drawback to the negative status effect, turning it from an inconvenience into a threat.

I like this.
turning it from an inconvenience into a threat.
^^^

The Killer, in theory, is super fun, but the effect itself is not viable on an M1 killer with Hag's speed.

I've seen people say "just break Frenzy after the first hit."
Yeah, just take the stun, allow for distance, and try to not get wrecked as a powerless Hag.

The_Crusader

BT isn't just about camping.

I mean it's great to prevent endgame camping, but normally you put a survivor on a hook and he hangs out for a while. Buys you maybe 30 seconds. With BT they'll unhook when you're 5 steps away because they know they can get away with it. It's a pain in the backside with SWF.

SnakeSound222

Vietfox said:

Orion said:

@Vietfox said:
Breaking news, not camping prevents BT from triggering.

Breaking news, hookswarming triggers BT regardless of what the Killer does.
More breaking news, you already knew this and were being disingenuous.

@Orion
Breaking news, hit the others or grab them while performing the rescue.

Breakdown is a thing you know.

Boss

Can't use BT if i'm cloaked.

DemonDaddy

After seeing all this I'm kind of glad I moved away from playing killer. Survivors got some good perks and a killer power that provides little threat to us solos. I was honestly expecting to see survivor noobs in an uproar but instead its experienced killers with valid concerns. Imo; if survivor babe's are quite its not a great starting point for the new killer.

PiiFree

My answer to the BT buff is slugging Nurse.

Can't use BT when you can't unhook anymore :^)

Milo

Hit the rescuer. Woo

Dreamnomad

If only there was a way to deal with borrowed time. Like maybe not camping/tunneling or attacking the rescuer or using a perk like insidious to reduce your terror radius to zero so as not to trigger borrowed time. If only there were options like that available. Oh well, I guess all killers are screwed.

PiiFree

@Dreamnomad said:
If only there was a way to deal with borrowed time. Like maybe not camping/tunneling or attacking the rescuer or using a perk like insidious to reduce your terror radius to zero so as not to trigger borrowed time. If only there were options like that available. Oh well, I guess all killers are screwed.

BT is irrelevant as long as the gates are closed but once they are open, there will be no way to secure a hook.

I don't mind the "anti-tunneling" feature during the match but once the gates are open it shouldn't provide an infinite safe unhook oppurtunity. It's very similar to NOED, which is exactly why I'm going to run NOED on Nurse and slug 24/7 if this patch goes live with that BT change.

It's a protest march, nothing personal and it's also not because I think BT is gonna be too strong. It's because that change wasn't needed and only rewards hook farmers and/or bad survivors that get caught in the end, so I make sure to punish them accordingly :^)

Raccoon

"Just go after the rescuer"

There's literally no reason to do this with the new BT, as you have to hit both the rescuer and the unhooked survivor 2x now.

If I'm forced to restart the chase, I'm obviously going for the person with fewer hooks left. 

The incentive to disallow any unhooks/hard camp/tunnel is at an all time high

Carpemortum

ad19970 said:

@alivebydeadight said:

@Orion said:

@ad19970 said:

@Raccoon said:
Oh, I've made sure that tunneling is no longer an option in my killer PTB games. 

I appreciate the suggestion and implicit acknowledgment that perks such as Dying Light and Remember Me have received a minor nerf as a result. 

How were those two perks nerfed?

Dying Light requires you to focus on making sure one Survivor dies ASAP. Remember Me requires hitting one Survivor multiple times.

welcome to dead by daylight, the game where they make pro tunneling/ pro camping perks

Exactly. The fact that Insidious and Dying Light exists baffles me. Such terrible perks. A shame really, especially since perks like Thanatophobia, that actually encourage not to camp and not to tunnel, are so bad.

So then should perks like self care and urban evasion not exist? They make it harder on the killer to do their job.

Regardless, people are gonna camp/tunnel/ whatever is effective given the survivors in play. As long as it's not exploits or hacking, who cares. They paid for the game same as you. 

Carpemortum

Boss said:

Can't use BT if i'm cloaked.

Or if a pig is crouched in a bush nearby.

purebalance

@PiiFree said:

@Dreamnomad said:
If only there was a way to deal with borrowed time. Like maybe not camping/tunneling or attacking the rescuer or using a perk like insidious to reduce your terror radius to zero so as not to trigger borrowed time. If only there were options like that available. Oh well, I guess all killers are screwed.

BT is irrelevant as long as the gates are closed but once they are open, there will be no way to secure a hook.

I don't mind the "anti-tunneling" feature during the match but once the gates are open it shouldn't provide an infinite safe unhook oppurtunity. It's very similar to NOED, which is exactly why I'm going to run NOED on Nurse and slug 24/7 if this patch goes live with that BT change.

It's a protest march, nothing personal and it's also not because I think BT is gonna be too strong. It's because that change wasn't needed and only rewards hook farmers and/or bad survivors that get caught in the end, so I make sure to punish them accordingly :^)

This changes nothing for when the gates are open because you'd still need to hit twice. Stop spreading this gate myth. The boost of speed from the hit was usually enough much less most people had exhaustion perks back up after. This changes nothing in terms of gates open.

Dreamnomad

So much over reacting going on in this thread. You would think that survivors have infinite lives or something. Think for a second about what really changed here. The only fundamental difference is that if you are chasing a survivor that has borrowed time, they won't just fall down after 25 seconds. You have to actually hit them. That and if they manage to escape the recovery is a little easier. But if you lost them in a chase then they would have self cared back up anyway so it really isn't that big of a deal.

That's it folks. If you hit a survivor with borrowed time twice they will still go down exactly like before. Borrowed time still has the same weaknesses it had before. You can still down the rescuer. You can still choose not to tunnel or camp. You can still use stealth killers or perks that reduce terror radius to avoid triggering borrowed time. You can still slug. This objectively is not that big of a change. The sky is not falling.

borna_lk

Wraith and pig cripple burrowed time. Just drop your TR and ######### them over. But unfortunately there isn’t much else u can do