Where did the idea of Pyramid Head is against the Entity came from, because it isn't true lorewise

Demo_Gaming101 Member Posts: 23

Entity sought out Pyramid Head after Silent Hill

"When his duty was complete and his presence no longer needed, he prepared for the long rest — and yet, his skills were required elsewhere. The Fog that streamed over him was somehow different than that he was accustomed to in Silent Hill, as if each wisp contained the nerves of a creature, writhing, seeking him out.

There was an unspoken agreement in that moment. The billowing cloud was an invitation to duty and sadism, and Pyramid Head, taking a step into The Fog, accepted his obligation once more"

both are working in a symbiotic relation, as Pyramid Head came to the fog by his own will, the cages and final judgement mori is not against the Entity as they do the same job as hooks (you get same amount of points as hooks) and functions more like Amanda's bear traps, a unique way to sacrifice to the Entity


  • ArchAbhor
    ArchAbhor Member Posts: 793

    The idea is that PH's mechanics directly interfere with the entities rules for the trials. Denying the entity the hook states and kills so he can instead kill them his way. I think if thats true the moris as a whole are kind of against the "entities rules". If true another big offender is pinhead since he steals them away from the trial with his mori.

  • Demo_Gaming101
    Demo_Gaming101 Member Posts: 23
    edited June 2022

    Except the cages and Final judgement gives you same amount of point in the sacrifice emblem like the reverse beartraps, only one that doesn't it Myers tombstone the cages is most probably PH's own way of sacrifice, like lorewise Jigsaw traps are for Amanda

    Does Pinhead really steals them? or just tortures them to death and then they return back to the realm

  • ArchAbhor
    ArchAbhor Member Posts: 793

    Like I said thats the idea behind PH actively foiling the entity's trials. Like other killers moris they arnt sacrificing to the entity. Only PH does it on sacrifices too. Thats why he stands out more. Yes I interpret it as Pinhead stealing them away to his world to torture. Its more conjecture and flavor until we get anything concrete. There might be something supporting it in the massive amount of lore in the tomes but I am not aware of it.

  • Mozic
    Mozic Member Posts: 601

    This will be a weird take but walk with me on a scattered collection of tangents for a moment -

    There's a post floating around out there comparing the unimaginable amount of strictly confined power that a train has to angels - that power is used for a specific purpose, but trains (and, through this association, angels) don't have much in the way of free will. Duty and purpose are their defining pillars, but lord help you if you step onto their pathway.

    Silent Hill, being both heavily rooted in the playground of gods & the divine, while also being aesthetically inspired by the film Jacob's Ladder (in particular, the uncanny designs of that film's angels being the backbone of Silent Hill's monstrosities), it's not unreasonable to frame Pyramid Head as an angel of a kind - one whose identity is framed around guilt & punishment (in response to unmitigated sexual frustration).

    All of this is to say that if we look at Pyramid Head as a duty-bound, purpose-driven force of divinity - even if the Entity has tapped into that sense of duty to recruit Pyramid Head into the Fog to continue its work, the way in which Pyramid Head can operate is almost better framed in animalistic terms like "instinct" than viewing them as a calculating, feeling thing with positive or negative opinions about anyone or anything.

    So my deduction is that Pyramid Head probably does not have an antagonistic relationship with the Entity, but the Entity probably does not have nearly as much in the way of the means to influence the way in which Pyramid Head acts within a trial as it does for other killers. Whether the Entity can be satisfied with the amount of hope & suffering a trial has produced is more incidental in these cases. It's like the Entity has adopted a force of nature and just has to hope for the best while Pyramid Head mechanically obeys the same parameters of delivering merciless punishment to the guilty that it had while tormenting James in Silent Hill.

    Overall can this be viewed as against the wishes of the Entity? Subjective, but I'd probably just say that Pyramid Head merely does not care about pleasing the Entity and that in carrying out its mission, the Entity gets what it gets.

  • Araphex
    Araphex Member Posts: 665

    According to all Silent Hill sources, this is who Pyramid Head is:

    PH is a manifestation of James Sunderland's guilt and desire for punishment. The town took that and fashioned it after Valtiel, God's attendant. Mary/Maria in the game was fashioned after God. So Pyramid Head serves Mary/Maria, Valtiel serves God. Same being.

    But in Silent Hill 3, God was defeated by Heather Mason/Alessa Gillespie. Once again, same person, two different beings.

    Now, coming back to DBD, you are correct. Pyramid Head/Valtiel is now the Entity's attendant.

    I guess the idea came from how PH could kill survivors after the second hook state and cage them. But the reality is this... If you die in the Entity's realm, you are still trapped there. Any form of death is a sacrifice to the Entity. What you say is completely true. They work in a symbiotic relation. and since PH is the Entity's attendant, PH get's more power, i.e. the ability to kill at second hook state. Also, the Entity feeds of the hope of survivors, not whether they are hooked or not.

    So the idea that Pyramid Head works against the Entity is completely wrong, based on both Silent Hill and DBD Lore. I do hope one day they get the rights to a Valtiel cosmetic for PH. Maybe then that can connect more dots for people.

  • FrostyEyesSusie
    FrostyEyesSusie Member Posts: 421

    The difference is that the other killers have to literally bribe the NTT for the privilege of killing survivors on their own (in the form of the offerings), except for PH (and now Sadako). At this point you could argue that Spirit also does that with Rancour but that can be assumed to be just Rin's rage as an onriou being so intense she temporarily severs the NTTs leash over her (Anna does the same with Beast of Prey).

  • MrJack20252
    MrJack20252 Member Posts: 383

    if i remember correctly in the beginning you didn't get points in the sacrifice emblem when you used the cages and the final judgement, this was later changed due to the fact that people kept complaining (rightfully) of deranking because of that

  • Slan
    Slan Member Posts: 278

    Both Pyramid Head and Myers can break the Entity's rules. Pyramid Head is a punishment for those who have commited sins, and the Entity is a huge sinner, it kidnapps and tortures. Some survivors haven't done anything bad like Kate, and it still breaks the rules to kill them, so the obvious conclussion is that he punishes the Entity by stealing it's feedement.

  • johnlikesguns2
    johnlikesguns2 Member Posts: 82

    This is a theory and the one i believe the most. No one actually confirmed this. But i believe PH can beat the entity easily and he is there to punish it as well.

  • VentureBrosFan
    VentureBrosFan Member Posts: 52

    Why he can't deny flashlights, also just because he can kill them it does not mean that entity does not allow this. If Pinhead is stealing survivors then why match result is dead?

  • Dito175
    Dito175 Member Posts: 1,391

    I believe it's to some extent, like as If Ph is "programmed" in such a way in by Silent hill that the entity isn't able to change his nature that much, but him missbehaving in some trials isn't a big deal so it just let him be same with Myers.

  • Marc_go_solo
    Marc_go_solo Member Posts: 4,267

    I used to think The Executioner was torturing the Entity, but recently I've had a change and believe it's sonething else. The Executioner still breaks the Entity's rules, but it's not punishing him.

    The realms are made from Auric Cells. Survivors' consciousnesses are alive to suffer, but their bodies have been so mangled, that in order for them to be brought back anew for trials, Auric Cells are used to recreate their bodies which their souls inhabit.

    Since Auric Cells are reused time and time again, and taking into account the massive numbers of survivors and killers within the game, effectively all the realms are made with fragments of souls, or at least contain echoes of souls. So, when The Executioner rips the floors apart, creating pain-filled trenches, he is torturing all within the Cells within the trials.

    The Executiiner is powerful, maybe aided by the Sun Goddess, and has found a way to not just disobey the Entity's laws, but also steal kills like Myers. I do imagine the trenches brings more influence of the Sun Goddess into the realm, but it's symbiotic, not an invasion or torture.

    A bit like those small fish which feed off whales as they swim through the ocean, so to does The Executioner and the Sun Goddess feed off the guilt left by the Entity.

  • Sadako_Best_Girl
    Sadako_Best_Girl Member Posts: 658

    I think that with Pinhead it's more an agreement between the entity and the leviathan.

    "yo dude can my man Pinhead bring me some souls from your trials to condemn"

    "yeah sure why not"

  • Smoe
    Smoe Member Posts: 1,934
    edited September 2022

    Youtuber named Pixel Bush didn't like Pyramid Head's dbd backstory and made up his own one which is that pyramid head is in the entity's realm to punish the entity, alot of his fans then started treating this fanfic re-write backstory of his as being the actual canon backstory to dbd despite the fact that it clearly isn't.

  • ImainAsh
    ImainAsh Member Posts: 3

    This idea is easily countered by the fact that in the ph's power description it's stated that cages are from entity.

    "During the second phase of the summoning ritual they will be forced to complete Skill Checks to hold off the Entity"

    also there are no rules, it was confirmed in one of the livestreams that entity has no rules and only indication that something is in favour to the entity are bloodpoint rewards. It was also confirmed that kills also feed the entity and that in first trails hooks didn't even exist. It's in this livestream https://youtu.be/GI0NOK6jrts. There's also a theory that blighted cosmetic for ph is straight up entity torturing him, it is an idea created by MintSkull but if it's true we don't know