Full perfectly played premade vs perfectly played killer
Who wins?
I personally feel the premade should win every time except against maybe a perfect nurse/blight.
What is everyone's thoughts?
Comments
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At that point it depends on who brings what. Perks, items, addons, offerings. Also the map.
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Depends on map imo, but if the killer is not playing blight/nurse/spirit the premade will win 100% of the time.
That being said, if the map is something like midwich or shelter woods the killer is in favor but if the map is something like coldwind, badham, eyrie of crows, the game(not for nurse tho) or RPD the killer will be eaten alive.
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Premade majority of the time
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Survivor
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Depends on map and what killer.
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I haven't seen a single person say killer so far (unless playing a small percentage of the killer choices). Interesting especially when we are close to equal on the forum of "killer ability op" and "survivor perk op"
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The premade will most likely win, unless it's Blight or Nurse, but only if the killer doesn't play as dirty as possible. Camping, and in particular tunneling, can definitely give the killer a fighting chance. It's a shame such unfun, and less skillful strategies, are some of the strongest strategies in many situations.
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Unless you're on Nurse or Blight the premade wins every single time. Even Blight and Nurse just has a fair chance of winning, not even likely.
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Why is this even a thing? 😒
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Swf will win unless the killer is a god nurse or god blight with their best add ons
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Premade but by far
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Yes, but what does that mean for all the other killers? Shouldn't it be possible for every killer to do that?
I dont understand why with all the money and knowledge they should have after all this years, this has not been addressed
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Marth proved without a doubt that an organized swf will destroy a killer, the depip squad yt videos made this clear long ago. they had gens done and out in 4 mins, even good killers will struggle with how they do it.
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I haven't seen those videos so thanks for pointing them out. If this is really the case, why is it not addressed? I have had a match I have lost in 5 minutes before when not playing a top tier killer from gen rush and out. I even hooked 2 people at the same time and still lost in 5 minutes.
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SWF with comms beats the killer and the killer beats solo.
Been like this for ages.
Killer should be renamed annoyance.
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SWF always win... ALWAYS
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Wasn't there a tournament a while ago where there were no rules whatsoever and both parties could bring whatever they want, and results were surprisingly "balanced"?
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The depip squad happened years ago in a public match setting. I wouldn't put much stock in that at all. You're much better off looking at competitive play, and even then it's hard to gauge because of balancing rules. Plus those killers and survivors are miles above the average pub play.
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It has been addressed to a degree. BHVR has been pretty transparent in how they want the game balanced, and it's for the 2k/2e AVERAGE, and this includes solos with SWF lobbies.
Your 5 minute matches are not the average. It happens, sure-- that's DBD for you --but it doesn't happen 5 out of 10 games unless you let it happen.
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Those videos are not really worth at all.
They were a bunch of really good players. And went against random Killers. This is like saying that the game is entirely killersided, because players like Dowsey or Otz have large winstreaks on their Killer. Does not work out, because not every Killer is Dowsey or Otz. And not every Survivor is Marth + friends.
Also, the videos are so old, a lot has changed since then.
As long as you are not completely out of reality, you should just ignore the "Depip-Squad", it is nonsense which is brought up all the time, but it is not relevant at all.
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In a perfectly mirrored matchup the Survivors will win every time.
The only way a Killer can compete in this game is by A: bringing much stronger things than the Survivors, B: the Survivors being generally lesser skilled players or C: the Survivors throwing the game.
A mirrored matchup instantly eliminates A and B and for the sake of the argument we have to assume that C won't occur and both sides play perfectly, meaning the Killer is utterly outclassed.
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The problem with that desire is implementation. There's a small space in the spectrum of skill where that happens and on either side it's generally one way or the other. So it will balance but it doesn't feel like that to most of the players.
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It's not the case at all. Matches like these are as close to an example as we can get. When it's top tier vs top tier, execution/game sense/RNG is often the determining factor for either side. Pay attention to the decision making on both sides for both games in this one. The macro gameplay is the difference in high level DbD when mechanical skill is more or less even.
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I highly doubt it will ever change. The game is going on year 6. They can bandaid fix small balance changes and patch out the outright broken #########, but the core of this game has been broken since 2016 and they can't fix it without doing a complete overhaul. So, they have to look at macro balance because there's no way they can fix the little ######### in between. The only balance in this game happens when they force it in comp games. But good luck convincing BHVR to implement forced rules to a casual base that has no desire or skill to deal with that amount of pressure.
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Unfortunately because the devs balance the game from the bottom up instead of the top down like most games. That's why the game has trouble holding onto older players that play killer because they get to high mmr and realize how much how much of a dumpster fire it is and quit or switch to only survivor. At high MMR losing matches when you didn't even make any mistakes gets old fast.
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Survivors any day.
A good team even against Nurse will trash her, she needs the double blink to even stand a chance vs them.
In a recent tournament she was at the bottom of the rooster for kills.
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What they gonna do to balance? Quit SWF ? They wont kill his game also for them killers are balanced becuz they look overall kills instead of survival rate in medium high mmr and games where surv doesnt do risky moves.
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Welcome to DBD and the reason some call this forum a killer forum.
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ok, so we look at comp matches.... what do we constantly see: the killers can barely get two hooks in those comp matches.
Oracle vs True/Dowsey are just one more mainstream example of good killers destroyed by comp teams now I know True used Wraith, but its still that they can barely get any hooks.
edit: and yes they have crazy rules like only 1 DS per team etc that also shows stacking DS, BT isnt even allowed in comp often because its sooo stronk but in pub matches, you get bingo deadhard/bt/ds constantly at night.
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Unless God Nurse/Blight, SWF is going to win every single Game.
This is how DBD works, if survivors are running the 17th perk (Discord) you are done if they want to play serious.
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The kicker in comp games is that the survivors are neutered because they can't bring the same perk more than once except for Borrowed Time. Even with this handicap, survivors usually 3 escape or 2 escape and that's after insane tunneling by the killer. 4k's do happen but they are exceedingly rare and are usually because the survivors misplayed or got exceptionally unlucky with rng. The scoring system even encourages the killer to not tunnel and they still do it because of the simple fact 3 survivors doing things is less then 4. Less of an issue in comp since unlike solo dbd a team wins or loses together but for solo players on their own? You get tunneled = you lose even if the team wins.
Also watching some of those games... you do that stuff in public games? Big oooof...
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The majority of killers rely on survivor mistakes to achieve their objective. Killer gameplay revolves around making the survivors make such mistakes and "perfect killer play" consists of capitalizing on every mistake the survivors do.
Perfect survivor play means no mistakes are made, so nothing for the killer to capitalize on, so there can't be "perfect killer play", when survivors play perfectly.
On this situation the only thing left for the killer is to hold W on the survivors and gradually exhaust the map resources so he can ultimately catch them thanks to speed advantage, however, the gens will be done well before that can happen, so bottom line is survivors win on this scenario, every time.
Only exception to this nurse, who is the only killer who does not rely on survivor mistakes and can take the reins of the match, so perfectly played, she wins every time.
Blight is far better at fostering mistakes than any other killer, which is why it is so hard to outwit him, but again, assuming perfect play, even he loses.
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Killers do very well in comp. I'm not sure where this notion comes from. Tru3 and Dowsey aren't comp level killers to begin with, and they were playing their first comp matches against the best team in comp at the time. Of course they got beat badly. See the video I linked above of a random recent comp match between two of the better teams out there. The Demo players did well.
It's not a perfect comparison, but pub teams aren't half as coordinated as comp teams and pub killers have half the game sense. It's all we really have to go off of for these types of discussions. SBMM certainly doesn't pit top players against top players with any consistency.
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Restrictions exist on both sides. That's before we even get into killer add ons.
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Dowsey was a comp player and decided to stream more instead of continuing to compete,but hey if you think he isn't good enough for any measurement of killer skill vs a comp team, to each his own, that's fine.
Unlike some of you, I was not using one example as absolute proof, but alas, I have no desire to argue something this trivial.
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Cool. Didn't actually know. Even so though, the survivor restrictions are far harsher.
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To paraphrase the dev's, "that's not how normal people play" that's why... they seem to only care about the mid tier and ignore what happens when players learn and get good.
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SWF win every time.
Hence why a ton of perks are banned when playing comp games.
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No doubt. Just clarifying the prevailing notion that killers are at a massive disadvantage at that level. Both sides have some busted stuff to work with if they want.
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I would also like to clarify the OP made no mention of comp or pubs, hence why most of us mentioned pub matches vs premades.
The thread is not really about comp, its about whether or not perfectly played killer vs perfectly played team.
Comp or not was never part of the equation
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