Unpopular opinion: you arent being camped or tunneled
I will preface this by saying maybe in your part of the world players play differently but I am in NA and this is my experience as someone who plays both sides.
This forum constantly whines about camping and tunneling and i have seen time and time again what people claim is tunneling and camping. And your not being either.
vast majority of killers dont face camp. Not at mid to high mmr. if your being facecamped your probably a bad survivor and dealing with new killers. I get a face camper 1 out 50 something matches. And thats usually when a killer was ran around all game and you can tell they are frustrated.
proxy camping is not camping and is a 100% good and viable strategy.
I have often been accused of camping when i hook someone literally travel to check 1 or 2 gens and patrol back to hook, then go away do the same until the unhook. I time this in such a way that I can add pressure to a solid portion of the map and time that when the save happens i can end up close by or at least on the way. This is SMART gameplay. there are 2 people not on hooks with at least 1 injured, that i can get a trade on, or get the unhooked right back down and possibly pressure a second or third person right off hook.
or sure i can let every unhook be safe and have them heal up and start all over again. Im going to make the strategically sound decision, not handicap myself for no good reason.
Yet I have been accused of camping many many times for literally leaving the hook and often getting a hit on someone else.
Your not being tunneled. a killer's making an intelligent decision and going for someone who is injured near you in many cases a good idea. Not always but often it is.
Often times survivors make bad decisions or just end up popping up in front of me as im moving across the map. you think im not gonna go for you? lol
Tunneling is when EVERYONE else is ignored the whole game till the killer gets you out. this is RARE. (again speaking from someone who plays in NA)
Tunneling does NOT exist when 3 gens have been done. when there are 2 gens done the killer needs to get outs.(and 3 gens are often done in the first few mins depending on a few variables)
You wanna complain that it sucks getting taken out in the first 5 mins of the game. sure i get that, but almost 50% of games are over in 7 mins or less. Time is not on the killers side if half decent survivors know how to juggle gens and run tiles. This game has waaaaay too many safe tiles to run. 30 seconds to run a surv down off a loop is up to 30 seconds gens are worked on.
Its very common that by the time you get 1 surv down especially if they know how to run, that 1-2 gens get done in that first hook. The killer now has only 3 gens left and 11 hooks to go assuming survivors want their 12 hook match. Your wanting the killer to play like an idiot and play in and inefficient and tactically inferior way?
every may has at least 1 double L tile(frankly they are unmindgamable with any m1 killer without a mistake being made and im of the opinion the "L" part on one or both sides needs to be removed to stop that being an infinite, every map has at least one infinite window or double window vault and the majority of pallet loops are big and a time waste to mind game, there should be less safe loops and more 50/50 to unsafe pallets and shack, which is a huge waste of time for many killers.
decent survs should be able to pull at least 30-45 seconds off every chase and they often can get 60 seconds plus if a map gives them chained tiles and a pallet every 6 feet. This doesnt include the time to take to hook which could be a 2 second trip or a 15 second trip and then your travel time to a new generator/surv.
Whether you like it or not the reality of this game is that there is no luxury of time to just have a nice fun chase, if i had time to do a 2-3 minutes chase ona surv, i would love it. Mind games and loops are great enjoyment, but when your in a chase you have to end it as fast as you possibly can because up to 3 other gens are being crushed out while your traverse the infinites and 10 pallets. This doesnt include the huge amount of second chance perks used, whicha re strong enough that many of them have close to 50-100% use rates on a team. All of which extends things even farther.
When 2 or less gens are left there is no camping or tunneling, it makes zero sense. When 2 or less gens are left you in most cases NEED to have SOMEONE out the game or you have a much higher chance of losing, and it is not uncommon to have 2 gens left and only 3-4 hooks out or less.
You get mad if your sacrificed in the first 5 mins but you sure dont mind ending the game in 5 mins so what exactly is the difference here?
Finally, since most players choose one of like 8 different survivors and commonly use the same skins many many games have 2-4 identical characters. Sorry im not gonna try and work out which of the 3 bills i just hooked, nor am i going to see a bill i just hooked and ignore him so i can go find someone else when i need to take the bill i just hooked out anyways.
There is actual camping and actual tunneling and i am 100% confident that 95% of these complaints arent either of those.
and please please please, instead of trying to overthrow 4chan for which community is the most toxic and vile can both sides actually talk and listen to each others issues instead of acting like real life enemies?
Survivors NEED killers and killers NEED survivors or there is no game. we can discuss the issues we have and come to mutual agreements and solutions without treating each other like garbage.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Comments
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Sigh.
Okay, assuming this isn't just a wall of flame bait.
- I play both sides. I see a lot of killers tunneling and camping.
- I play on NA.
- You can't arbitrarily redefine words to mean something that suits your argument.
- Well, you can. But you look silly.
- There is only one infinite left in the game, and it's a RNG spawn on Swamp.
- Complaining about Us versus Them while doing exactly that is dirty pool.
- Yes, there are things that make killer frustrating too. But the issue about facecamping and tunneling aren't that they are OP, it's that they are extremely unfun to go up against.
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I had a game where a spirit would ignore everyone and only chase me for 5 gens.
I would call that getting tunneled.
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A Treatise on Camping And Tunneling by InvadeGames
I read it.
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- I cant deny your experience but match making must just be much better for me than you then so idk what to tell you. and i play primarily at night but do still regularly play during the day as well.
- No us vs them, this thread is about a very specific topic that obviously applies to one side. there are plenty of nonsense things that killer's complain about to but that was not the topic of this post so kind of an odd thing to bring up.
- I never mentioned anything about camping/tunneling being OP or anything in regards to its fun value so i dont see the point in this comment.
- I have many many hours in the game(which of course doesn't mean i know everything, but does mean ive been around for a while) and In my experience, when people camp or tunnel and I see what they are referring to, what they are referring to doesn't apply as such in any rational way. Of course you can hold a different view, but i am stating my opinion as the thread title stated.
- what have i redefined? tunneling is defined as how I stated in the game, and camping is when someone doesnt leave the hook. I very clearly stated particular scenarios where those dont count and if we are going to be charitable and assume no one is being disingenuous and Survivors dont think that when a game is 70% over its not fair that a killer's does whatever he needs to do to win, that calling such actions at that state as what is colloquially considered as camping/tunneling as it applies to early game and not to late game, then how i defined stuff should be very clear cut and obvious.
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And i would agree with that. i would disagree with any claim that that happens to you frequently.
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I got chastised earlier this week for hooking someone during EGC right next to the exit gate and then hanging around while everyone else was nearby and healthy.
...Like, what did they want me to do? Pretend like I'd be able to score two hits on someone else before they ran out, while someone unhooks behind me and everyone gets out for free? It's an actively bad-faith way to engage with the game to try and discourage killers from maximizing their odds of a better outcome in the guise of advocating fair play. In simpler terms, it's hypocritical.
Every time I get faced with an accusation of playing in a way that is unsporting but is actually just the survivor complaining about me not just outright conceding the game to them makes me less and less sympathetic to the perspective. Anything the killer can do to get the meat on the hooks is as valid as every means survivors have to get out of the trial - barring abusing exploits, obviously.
The real nasty tech I enjoy is intentionally hard tunneling the injured survivor off hook in plain sight of healthy survivors just to see if any of them will intercept with a bodyblock. Like, I'll happily change course and chase someone else, but they do have to make themselves a more tantalizing target. Expecting me to swap off of an injured survivor in a deadzone a few seconds away from me over to a healthy survivor staring at me from a jungle gym is outright delusional.
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The OP called what you describe as getting tunneled too. Often helps to read the article not just the headline.
To the OP I don't agree with all of it but mostly you're on target. Especially with how people interpret any kind of play that doesn't somehow favor them as camping and tunneling, its the go to accusation no matter what happens in game.
Its opinionated but I don't think its flame bait.
Camping and tunneling are often smart plays so yeah you are gonna see a lot of them, again how much you see is going to be based on your own arbitrary definition of these things.
I don't think server matters in any respect so it is an irrelevant point, but then again maybe personal experience differs with player region?
The definition of these things is arbitrary to begin with. I agree with some of the points he brings up about gameplay and being accused of tunneling and camping, I don't consider some of what he's describing as tunneling or camping, which is probably different from your arbitrary definition of them, which again is probably different to his arbitrary definition of them.
His definition of infinite is off which speaks to a lil bit of bias in gameplay so yeah true infinites are largely gone.
I don't see how its an "us vs them" post because it doesn't say all survivors do X, or why do survivors do X, stop doing x you survivors, or killer/survivor OP etc etc. It just targets the complaints about two complained about things that are often just used as go to excuses.
Fun is subjective, some of the most fun games I've had as killer and survivor have involved a lot of camping and tunneling. I've had great games when I've been targeted by the killer and interacted with them all game AKA tunneled, usually you die at the end of that without some help/shielding from your team but it was a rich full game so I had fun.
Yeah you get games that are gen simulator, or hang on hook simulator, or crawl and bleed out simulator its not the most interactive, but part of the DBD mechanics is denial of participation and elimination. Its part of the game you are going to encounter it.
(EDIT: sorry OP to talk about you in 3rd person but its a discussion of the topic and a reply to StarLost's post at the same time).
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Sounds like camping to me proxy camp is still camping but it's viable stragedy but that does not change what it is. If you go after unhooked and hook him again you are tunneling. But example what is not camping is you leave the hook go to gen and start chasing survivor but if that survivor then goes to unhook survivor on hook and you down them that's not camping or if survivor is saved right after you hook him and then you go after them that's not camping or tunneling.
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Yes, we're clearly having a different experience. I'd say...maybe a quarter of the killers I face either camp, tunnel or hard slug outside of any tactical need. Almost every Bubba hard camps at 5 gens, for instance.
And yes, you absolutely did.
"Tunneling does NOT exist when 3 gens have been done. when there are 2 gens done the killer needs to get outs.(and 3 gens are often done in the first few mins depending on a few variables".
Nobody until you posted this has ever said this.
Now, very few people would begrudge a killer camping at EOGC to get a kill, or tunneling someone out in a tough game, but that's not at all what I see. People that tunnel are going to tunnel at 5 gens. And that's before we get into the recent obnoxious trend of Knockout 5gen sluggers.
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"Now, very few people would begrudge a killer camping at EOGC to get a kill, or tunneling someone out in a tough game, but that's not at all what I see. People that tunnel are going to tunnel at 5 gens"
Even you would have to agree that taking the game from 4v1 down to 3v1 ASAP results in a much more manageable killer experience, it makes sense in a lot of scenarios to take someone out early.
I don't begrudge any killer that tries to do that and does it well because it makes really good tactical sense. Its also well within the game rules to do should one choose.
I'm not a fan of a lot of "obnoxious" play but if there was obnoxious play, or oppressive tactics, I'd rather see it from the killer side as that's thematically appropriate.
Nobody stops to ask Michael Myers if he could politely not murder them so they can have some more screen time in the film.
I realise DBD isn't Halloween but that's what it emulates and I enjoy DBD most when it does emulate a horror film, which means killers being as nasty as they can be while in game.
I can also separate so called "mean" behaviour in a fantasy game world from genuine mean behaviour in the real world, just because a killer camps and tunnels doesn't make them some horrible person out to ruin people's fun because its only a game.
I can lose viciously in game to someone whom played as mean as possible and still be their good friend outside of game precisely because its only a game.
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i am sorry that your experience has that much of it. Even tho i dont see many bubbas, only a minority of the ones ive seen have done so. in fact iirc ive only ever faced 2 hard camping bubbas.
and no, i did not sorry.
I am pretty sure you have not read every forum post, every chat message from every match, every YT comments so please avoid making such a ridiculous comment like that again. Those people absolutely exist.
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I dont think i agree that leaving the hook radius far enough to reach 1-2 other gens and returning is camping.
In no other game in which camping is a mechanic have i ever encountered someone moving from a spot and periodically returning called camping.
The definition of camping in the context of video games is as follows:
A camper is a video gamer who finds a strategic spot within a level and waits there for players, game-controlled enemies or choice items to appear. This strategy is known as camping.
You may investigate this definition yourself. this is not an "arbitrary definition" this is what camping is. Leaving the hook and returning later does not meet the definition of camping.
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Honestly, most of those complaining about camping and tunnelling typically try to antagonize the killer in the first place. As a survivor main, I see it all the time. Spam clicking their flashlights and running around while I do gens and destroy totems on the way. There may be a few games here or there where nobody antagonizes the killer and they do it, but that's rare like you said. Sometimes players get unlucky and they get chased again. It happens but it's not tunnelling. And endgame camping is a viable strategy. Same as the other 3 survivors rushing the hook to save their friend and taking hits one at a time. That can actually be done anytime the killer face camps.
In general, gamers everywhere complain about camping. You see it in COD, Battlefield, Fortnite, and others all the time. If it's a viable strategy to help you win, do it. Camping isn't going to go away and neither will tunnelling, which with the right perks or other builds can be countered... And you don't need DS to counter tunnelling either. I don't use it. But this TED talk is spot on. People are going to complain regardless of what's done. Best to just not let it bother you (not you personally, just in general).
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part of it is the competitive nature of the game. both sides like to win and when frustrated, we as humans will accuse the other of X. Im not immune to this. I never get upset on survivor but i do get very stressed out as a killer and when frustration hits ill start viewing a survivor team as a bully or toxic because i am upset and not because they are in fact doing anything "wrong"
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I completely agree.
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- ”Tunneling” is a pointless buzzword, there’s no consensus on what it even is let alone whether it’s good or bad or otherwise. And the vast majority of times I’ve seen people complain about “tunneling” in aftergame chat it was sore losing by survivors who happened to get downed twice in a row or who I continued chasing after I injured them. There’s absolutely nothing wrong or unfair or unsportsmanlike or toxic or whatever for downing someone more than once or chasing an injured survivor over a healthy one.
- The original poster is very specifically talking in their post about “proxy camping” not being an issue. There’s a significant difference between actual “facecamping” and “proxy camping”. The former is a behavior that the devs have explicitly said they would like to find a way to steer killers away from because a killer standing around for two minutes at a hook is boring for everybody involved, so even though it’s already a suboptimal strategy a lot of the time it’s still important the game make it not FEEL like it’s a good strategy if possible. The devs simply haven’t found an actual specific mechanism yet though that they like which does that without breaking something else.
- ”Proxy camping” on the other hand is not toxic or unfair, etc. It’s literally just playing zone defense. There is absolutely nothing wrong with defending a portion of the map that contains gens and hooks.
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- Proxy Camping is still camping. You are staying close to the hook so that you can easily force a trade and also tunnel the unhooked survivor at the same time.
- Being face camped has nothing to do with how good you are as survivor. That's entirely on the killer.
- Tunneling: Focusing solely on one person the entire game. Also tunneling: Deliberately choosing to go after the freshly unhooked person because they're injured and their rescuer isn't.
- Not tunneling: Hooking someone else and targeting the injured person. They had time to heal, therefore they are not being tunneled. Also not tunneling: Stumbling across the freshly unhooked survivor by chance.
- Tunneling and camping are viable and effective strategies. If that's how you want to play, then so be it, but don't expect survivors to be thrilled about it.
- Tunneling exists throughout the entire game. There is no point at which it ceases to exist. It's excusable in EGC, but even at 2 gens left, you're still probably going to lose if the survivor you're trying to get rid of is a strong looper.
- Survivors who dress the same deserve no mercy. They knew what they were doing when they did that.
- Finally, play how you want but don't ever expect your opposition to be in agreeance with or happy about your chosen strategies. At the end of the day, it's just a game. Win or lose, everyone will move onto their next match and you'll just be another number.
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Oh good, another long winded explanation from a "I play both sides" player as to why "insert x" is valid. I think it's about time for another break from the forums.
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the door is that way.
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Do you have a guilty complex about camping or tunneling that requires you to define them out of existence to absolve yourself or something?
Yes, you are being camped and tunneled. Yes, you're allowed to do these things, no one is going to stop you. Yes, they're valid strategies and you can do them if you want to. No, they aren't fun to be on the receiving end of. Yes, if you do these things without the intention of winning, you're probably a prick.
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All I got from that is that people are being camped and tunneled, you just don't really care.
To each their own, I suppose.
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camping has a clear definition and if you read the thread i provided the definition of camping in the context of video games. It BY DEFINITION is not camping unless you do not leave the hook at all. IME the vast majority of killers leave the hook. they dont just sit there. them returning to the hook later to check on the hooks area is NOT camping. Words have meanings.
and tunneling what the term is supposed to refer to is misused and applied to any consecutive down ime. 5 gen tunneling is also IME very rare.
Did you have anything constructive you wanted to add to the conversation or were you just giddy to try out a snarky comment?
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perhaps you should re read.
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As a matter of fact, I was, thank you for asking.
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you are welcome mr crack pipe.
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No thank you.
I got it all the first time.
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Proxy camping is still camping. Patroling a specific radius around the hooked survivor is still camping. It's why we have terms like proxy camping and face camping.
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what is this as yet undetermined radius?
And how is one to know when they have crossed this invisible threshold?
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When you hear the words "this game isn't fun anymore" after being camped/tunneled all day and your SWF team just got smaller because of it I think its safe to say these 2 things are happening and they do make people quit this game. We can argue all day as to why these things happen and whether or not it was Ok to do it in any given circumstance, but it'll just be another endless argument. With me playing solo now I just try to make my own fun and hope the next chapter offers something interesting enough to keep playing. I go into every match pretty much expecting to be tunneled at the very least but if I can get a couple head on stuns and maybe a flash bang save before that happens then at least I was able to have a little fun before I was tunneled out.
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There is plenty about this game that could be "unfun" though its rather zero sum in its design.
It involves objective denial, via non participation and elimination for survivors.
It involves progression denial for killers.
So you have a setup that requires you to deny your opponents participation/progress to achieve your own objective.
There are lots of games like this and they are often table flippers for people who can't deal with disappointment or go into them with different expectations.
It always strikes me as odd when people want to play an elimination game but get really angry when eliminated, its kinda what you signed up for.
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you didnt answer either of the 2 questions I asked. you mentioned a specific radius. I would like to know what this radius is and how one would be able to know when they have passed this threshold.
I think we can both agree whole heartedly that Hard camping is unfun and uneeded except for niche circumstances or end game. and a killer who does so is either inconsiderate or not with a good grasp of the game mechanics.
Now if we are too define proxy camping we need to define what actually counts as proxy camping. if your only going 10 feet away, i personally wouldnt consider that proxy camping but hard camping. or "medium" camping as unhooks are possible there tho unlikely without receiving a hit.
but we cant call coming back to the hook camping, that doesnt make any sense and doesnt work under other video game situations. It may colloquially be called proxy camping, but if you are in fact leaving the hook (this means not 10 feet away) and you return later that by definition isnt camping, even if we call it proxy camping. Without specifically defining it and its parameters it is a very amiguous terms that people can use and mean different things leading to communication confusion.
I find it a tad odd that you get tunneled so much that you "expect" to get tunneled as if a killer sees you and decides to pick you to take out the game all the time, I strongly dount this is the reality with you, but perhaps you are using a far more ambiguous meaning of "tunneled"(where i would then argue is a pointless term), and that yet somehow with hundreds and hundreds if not over a thousand surv games i have played, games in which anything close to tunneling does not occur in more than maybe 5?% of my games.
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Sorry I just can't get over this quote, the fact you typed it out and thought this was a good line of argument 😭😭
Like "proxy camping is not camping" it's literally in the name
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It all comes down to whats considered a fun match in the mind of each individual player. Like I said earlier, if I get a few good interactions with the killer but end up dying I had fun. Some people wrap all of the fun up in whether or not they escape or get a 4k which is the "win or else" mentality. The general consensus in my experience is that many survivor mains don't like getting camped or tunneled for any reason. It is a PvP game revolved around elimination but when you feel like you had little to no chance at avoiding being eliminated that is when it becomes a problem.
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Lmao there's literally Otzdarva in many of his streams camping and tunneling survivors with his 8k hours in the game at mid-high MMR. Many other great players at mid-high MMR are getting tunneled/camped. It happens. Just because you think something, it doesn't mean you actually know it.
Agreed.
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if you wanna catch up with the rest of the thread you will see I copy pasted the actual definition for video game related camping.
Also, when something even incorrectly is referred to as X and i wish to convey information on that X i kind of need to use the colloquial term for anyone to know what i am referring to. That is how communication works unless you are aware of some other term that also reffers to proxy camping?
But I am glad your misunderstanding amused you.
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- Words mean...things. Yes, people misuse it, but there's very much a case where someone will literally be up your butt the entire game, preventing you from really getting much BP or grade points. Again, it's all relative. Nobody reasonable is going to get their underpants in an uproar about focusing someone out in a tough game, but when it's a stacked Nurse queued into a solo group on Midwich and then proceeds to literally tunnel everyone out individually - that's definitely not sporting.
- I agree about proxy camping, but he said 'camping'.
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Did you mean to quote 2 different people in this reply because I wasn't really following in the first half of your response.
I said I go into every match expecting to be tunneled simply because its happened so much to me. When I see the killer isn't doing this to either me or someone else then my mood changes. I've really come to the point where my expectation of the killer not camping or tunneling is far less than expecting them to actually doing it. Sorry but when you've got over 2k hours as survivor in this game its not easy to go into every match with high hopes of fairness. It doesn't happen every match obviously but if I get 2-3 matches in a row of just straight up tunneling it really doesn't make me hopeful for the next few. Thats why I've tried making my own fun instead of relying on chance and circumstance to play out in my favor.
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I apologize, i thought you were the author of another comment. I have no issue with your comment.
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No worries. I just wanted to be sure before I responded to the other things you said because it did seem like you meant to quote someone else.
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Does it? Sure.
Someone said something a while back that made me chuckle:
"Tunneling and camping are like eating a puppy. If I'm starving, then pass the ketchup. But if you immediately ask what they have in terms of puppy dishes the second you walk into a restaurant, you need to be sectioned".
Sure, it can make 'tactical sense', in that it's a strategy that requires substantially less effort to execute than counter - it's the DbD equivalent of a 6-pool in Starcraft. But it's still cheesy as hell and unfun.
But okay - let's put tunneling aside.
'As nasty as they can?'. Let's...unpack that one.
So...you really see nothing wrong with facecamping someone out at 5gens or slugging people and bleeding them out with knockout?
What about walling them into the poop room in The Game?
That's pretty nasty.
If someone disagreeing with you on the forums gets you this twitchy, then...yeah, probably.
Sorry, but I'm calling bull on the first. I see plenty of Bubbas. Most of them camp. I also watch a few streamers, and when they play against a Bubba, they immediately expect a camper.
And yes, you did. I quoted you, directly.
And duh, of course I didn't. I swear, there's a name for this fallacy...
But I do play a lot, read the forums a lot and watch quite a few streams. Not quite seeing your point. I'm not telling you how to think, I'm telling you how I think.
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you can call bull all you want, does not change the fact that in the rare times i face bubba, only 2 times that i can recall did they ever camp. You having some odd conglomeration of camping killers does not negate the reality in which i see in my games. And I dont find it a very compelling argument that 5 gen camping bubbas are all that common among the bubba playerbase. I enjoy bubba and while i rarely play him after leveling him up for his perks I didnt find any need to camp a hook in any time other than when your ultra altruistic teams were hook swarming and was able to maintain my regular playstyles.
Now i am not negating that YOU have experienced some apparently large amount of them but it has been a non issue in my games.
I had already explained to you previously that i was referring to a particular situation as is rather obvious in the OP and then highlighted that to you once more. You then did nothing other than give a nothing burger response so i have no need to engage you further on that front.
I never made any comment on your play time, however you stated that no one EVER said what i was referencing which you simply can not back that up and you know it. So trying to use that in an attempt to dismiss what i said is disingenuous.
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I can...bull? Sigh. You really cannot make your point without being hostile, can you?
You can look up the killer play rates. Bubba is pretty decently high. So either, yeah, you're telling pork pies or you're experience is a-typical.
There is a reason that the 'I'm being camped' icon for the new survivor states was a Bubba. Why do you think that is?
Yes, you used a fiddly definition. Again:
"Tunneling does NOT exist when 3 gens have been done. when there are 2 gens done the killer needs to get outs.(and 3 gens are often done in the first few mins depending on a few variables)"
You are assigning your own definition to things to suit your argument.
And yes, you are being deliberately disingenuous in the last part. If you can't argue your point without doing this, why bother?
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I’m a killer main and I’ll admit that I do tunnel every so often but I have a reason for it.
Its your characters looks. If you’re fully decked out in either bright clothes or no clothes (David King) I know you’re there to be toxic. Tea bagging and posting up near double L loops with pallets surrounding them. If I can get rid of you as soon as humanly possible I’ll have a better game.
Camping however is a different issue. If I see someone running in the hooks general location then I’ll return to the hook on a intercept. Doesn’t mean I camped it, means I’m protecting a kill.
Face camping sucks and I’ve only one if you a survivor once. Mainly due to him being a HUGE racist. He messaged me a lot of hate and talked “smack” to his fellow survivors. So one of them asked me to Tunnel him.
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Hostile is not my intention, sorry if you took it that way. i feel im matching your vibe.
I didnt say bubba was never played, so killer pick rates are irrelevant. this does seem to be something you keep going back to. bringing up things that are irrelevant to the conversation. the facts are regardless of whatever pick rate you want to advertise, he is one of the rarest killers i see in my games. Pick rate doesnt change that. Pick rate doesnt change that the bubbas i see majority dont hard camp.
And maybe its different for you, but if i am going to communicate, it should be rather obvious that i will communicate based off my own experiences and not based off someone i dont know and have no experiences with.
In none of my posts have i stated that other people do not get camped by bubba. i have gotten camped myself by bubba. There is no point in you talking if you keep trying to add things in that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
"Tunneling does NOT exist when 3 gens have been done. when there are 2 gens done the killer needs to get outs.(and 3 gens are often done in the first few mins depending on a few variables)"
If i am to be charitable, i will assume you are aware that the "tunneling" is most commonly defined as (as i have seen define on the forums and YT videos) focusing solely on one player and ignoring everyone else till you have them out of the game. this being in all of the most "official" descriptions of this i have seen is when this at the start of the game meaning a player gets out of the game "early".
You can surely not in any good faith say eliminating a player after the game is over 50% finished is "Early"
But if you are going to try and shoehorn that tunneling is whenever you down the same person 2x in a row I cant take anything you say seriously. There is no Dictionary definition of dbd tunneling unlike the definition of camping which you (or someone else) claimed i arbitrarily defined camping when i used the ACTUAL definition of video game related camping, and so Dbd Tunneling relies on colloqiualism and unofficial definitions and as such if you want productive conversation the term needs to be defined as to what it means and not used as some big abstract term that has wildy different impacts and "toxicity" depending on the situation in which this action takes place.
Which is what should have been obvious in my post. If that wasnt the case, then i apologize for not framing my post better.
If we want to define what tunneling is and use it to refer to the ACTUAL negative aspect of gameplay then that needs to be stated in the post, which is what I did.
I am not interested in discussing anything else with you as you appear to be set on adding irrelevant aspects into a conversation.
However i will just quickly add that I truly am not trying to be antagonistic or hostile towards you. I am blunt when speaking based on my personality and have had a death in my personal life today so my emotions are perhaps on edge and bleeding through.
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Okay. Let's go point by point.
I'm saying that Bubba is widely played, and frequently facecamps to the extent that he's frequently memed for it. Your experience is not the wider experience here.
You can't say 'you aren't being camped' when people are being camped.
You can say 'I'm not being camped'.
But that's not what you said.
Yes, that's what tunneling is. There's no special pleading for 'it was late game'. If I camp someone out at EOGC, I'm still camping them out. Now, again, you could say 'well, it's fine to camp and tunnel if it's necessary', but again - that's not what you said. Just because you are starving, doesn't mean you aren't eating the puppy.
No, again - see - you're the one being hostile here. Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? Yes, all definitions are common usage. I don't see your point here.
No, you never said that. You said 'you aren't being tunneled', then you said 'well, I define tunneling as something that can only happen, by definition, under specific conditions'.
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It's not really undefined. It's not proxy camping if you're too far from the hook to make it back to prevent or interrupt a rescue. It is proxy camping if you're patroling back and forth between the hooked survivor and a couple of nearby gens.
You basically defined the radius yourself with this paragraph:
I have often been accused of camping when i hook someone literally travel to check 1 or 2 gens and patrol back to hook, then go away do the same until the unhook. I time this in such a way that I can add pressure to a solid portion of the map and time that when the save happens i can end up close by or at least on the way.
You wouldn't be able to end up close by if you were patroling a far distance away, so logic dictates that it needs to be close enough that it doesn't take long to go from A to B and back again.
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Okay, so with this definition of Proxy Camping it's pretty clear that there is nothing wrong with Proxy Camping as it is most definitely not Face Camping. The Devs have stated that they're looking at ways to discourage Face Camping but have no issues with Proxy Camping.
So we're all agreed that Proxy Camping is legit and fine yes?
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....yes ive never said he isnt widely played nor said that you never encounter camping bubbas. soooooo im going to ignore that as once more its utterly irrelevant.
And specifically denoting things DOES matter. Sure you can call any tree a tree, but not all trees are the same and or have the same traits. one tree may be bad for you/environment but you dont thus say, trees are bad here, you say the poplar tree is bad in this situation or whatever would be the case.
In this way, when discussing tunneling you and i both know not ALL tunneling is bad. but tunneling here is EXTREMELY weighted torwards always being bad when in reference to.(its connotation) and so when what someone means by tunneling is for a particular type of circumstance it is IMPORTANT to be able to clarify specifically what tunneling is then OR we need to use new terms like we did to differentiate camping and proxy camping which are 2 seperate things. just like tunneling at the start of the game and tunneling at the EGC are two COMPLETELY different things.
Since tunneling is a made up term in the case of this game you can in fact define early game tunneling as tunneling and exclude the separate colloquialisms of tunneling as something else. They are different things and deserve different terms to denote their differences so people know whats being referred to.
If someone wants to have a discussion about Pine tree cones, you COULD just say tree, because a pine cone is a tree but if you want anyone to know what your talking about you will further define the tree and mention Pine tree. And doing so, someone will have a better understanding of what you are talking about.
I genuinely struggle to understand why this is incomprehensible to you.
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It's a legitimate strategy, albeit annoying and boring. Everyone should play how they want, but at the same time they should expect their opposition to be unhappy. Killers want to win, and survivors want to win. Neither side is going to be tickled pink about losing.
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- Words have meanings but some words like "tunneling" have very different and sometimes wildly ambiguous ones. You say "nobody reasonable will complain about focusing someone out" but I have yet to see a complaint that isn't exactly that in after game chat. Also I fail to see how a Nurse "tunneling people out" is unsportsmanlike, let alone what you even mean in this context when you say "tunneling them out". Do you mean the Nurse keeps chasing someone she hit to down them? Hooking the same person twice in a row? None of that is unfair or unsportsmanlike.
- In his post he literally said "proxy camping is not camping and is a 100% good and viable strategy." He was explicitly saying there are people who claim that proxy camping isn't fair.
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