The Grind is actually going up because they removed the bp bonuses
BBQ and Chili was a reliable method of effectively halving the grind. If you wanted all perks on all characters without prestiging it would take approximately 447 million blood points. (1.6 million per character, then 318 - 60 = 258. 258 / 2 = 129. Multiply by 50000 and then by 31 survivors. For killers it's 288 - 60 = 228. 228 / 2= 114. Then multiply by 50k and then 28 killers)
Under the new system it's simpler. You just reach P3 on each character. Which means it's 1.6 million * 3 * 59. Which equals 283 million bp.
Under the old system if you earned 24k per match on average and got 4 stacks of BBQ and Chili it would take you 9313 trials to do so
Under the new system without BBQ and Chili bonuses if you earned the same bp without BBQ an Chili it would take you 11792 trials to do so. An INCREASE of 26%
Keep in mind that if the multiplier was base kit (which promotes healthy gameplay and benefits neither side in match) it would only reduce to 5896 trials a decrease of just 36%
The only savings is if you wanted to P3 every character with every perk, which is a major savings. It'd take about 824 million bp and 17179 trials. But prestiging under the old system was a not worth investing in. Especially for new players.
Ultimately the grind is not really being reduced. Yes, they are adding matchmaking incentives. But those incentives are not as reliable as the perks. If they didn't want us to have to use perks to lessen the grind they should have either doubled the bp per match to compensate or included the multiplier at basekit to compensate. Otherwise the grind reduction they are bragging about is halved from it's potential. I don't think including the multiplier at basekit would be so crazy. It would also feel a lot less bad for everyone.
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That's not how it works. You only have to reach prestige 1 to get everything you need on all characters.
Edit: You're also dismissing queue incentives. Also, start playing your flans and if there are any perk deficits on your roster you can have them sealed completely before the change is live.
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On level 1. If you want a higher level, you need to prestige the origin char or the char you want to have the perk on.
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Why? You can just find the perks in the bloodweb after that. No additional prestige necessary.
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That's will take twice as long after this change goes live.
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Not seeing it.
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I mean, the perks will show up on the Bloodweb as usual once you prestige a character, so at that point you're just leveling up the character as normal.
Alternatively, Shrine of Secrets can also shortcut progress if the right perk rolls in, though that is admittedly a complete gamble.
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You don't even have to prestige all characters to P3. Many characters don't have any perks you want, so you can leave them unprestiged. Not to mentioned, after you've reached P3 before you'd have literally nothing, whereas now you'll have any previously earned perks from other prestiged characters, plus whatever additional perks you earned on the way.
The approximately 1.5m bp you have to spend still sucks, but not losing all perks when you prestige as well as getting that characters perks on everyone is absolutely going to tank the grind down by a ton. Do you have any idea the amount of BP I had to spend to get BBQ level 3 on all my killers even after P3? Several million on average. Of course I won't need it anymore, but now your goal for characters is basically P3L1, since perk slots stay unlocked anyway.
This is a good change, and I like it. I also like not being forced to bring BBQ every single match.
There is ONE thing I want though. I want a 12.5% increase in BP per unique survivor hooked in the basekit, like a "lite" version of BBQ and Chili. And the same bonus for survivors, but it would be 12.5% per 50% of generator progress, and safe unhooks/saves. Or maybe even just for saves, to disincentivize rushing gens and leaving as fast as possible.
I think with all the changes to genspeeds and the removal of BBQ bonus, we'll see a huge uptick in camping, because there's no incentive to focus someone else now. So getting a weaker bonus basekit would help. Especially with DS being harshly nerfed. Although Off the Record will take its place.
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Thats... what i said. You unlock the perks on level 1 but you would still need to pump bloodwebs to get a higher level.
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Also honestly a lot of perks do not need to be at tier 3 to be useful. Many of them work just fine at rank 1 or 2. For instance I don’t think there’s any significant difference between Devour Hope 1 and 2 and 3, they’re all effectively on par with each other.
That’s not to say some perks aren’t more useful at level 3. But you definitely don’t actually need to level literally everything to Tier 3 to have good builds.
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Which is a fraction of the normal work, struggling just to get the perk to pop up. If you need DH, for example, it could come up after 50+ bloodwebs. Now that won't be the case, as it's already in your repertoire and you only need it twice more.
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Killer gets 10x more annoying to play because almost every killer has a limited amount of useful add ons. Annoyance and aggravation are not features. Just keep the bonus as a baseline incentive. Your players don't want the grind. Shuffling it around clearly isn't it. One killer game doesn't even get you one good add on for many killers when you factor in all the junk you have to buy.
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When you prestige all of the teachable are available for all other survivors/killers without opening the bloodweb. Prestige 2 and 3 provides the teachables at tier 2 or 3, respectively. That's better than the original system. By far. It would seem that would require less playing time as well to make specific perks available to specific characters. You said yourself that the old system is not worth investing in especially for New players. So what exactly do you see as the drawback?
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Which isn´t exactly a reduction. Is it? You unlock the perks in the bloodweb on lvl 30, 35 and 40 for all chars. Soon you unlock all perks on lvl 1 after prestiging. Which is 20, 15, 10 levels just to get those 3 perks on level 1. Sure, you get them on all chars and depending on how many chars you have, it reduces the grind. IF you want said perk on every char.
For those that don´t want this or have only a few chars, the grind wasn´t reduced. Even more, it will take longer to complete a bloodweb, without the BBQ and WGLF bonus.
The shrine just sounds like a p2w mechanic after the update. You shorten the grind, IF you spend something on the shrine.
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They seem to be doing Bloodhunts more frequently nowadays so there's that. Also, hoard as much flans as you can and you should be fine until 7th anniversary.
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If you wanted all perks on all characters, like most do with Killers. Before you would need to get everyone to 40 for the teachables, then get approximately 200 bloodwebs on those characters to actually obtain all the perk tiers.
This limits that to just 150 bloodwebs per character, and half of those will be tiny, cheaper bloodwebs everytime you hit 50 and go back to 1. You also won't need to worry about bloodweb RNG. Instead of infinite bloodwebs and it taking seemingly forever to find that one perk you want, you can just focus on P3ing every Killer, which will work out cheaper in the long run.
Also, you'll end up getting all perks on your killers long before you P3 the last one, because of all the tier 3's you unlock from the P3's you already have. For example by the time you hit your last killer, they'll have every perk at tier 3 by about level 20, no prestiging required.
Alternatively if you're trying to get every perk on one character, like Survivors tend to do. You just need to get every character to 50 (instead of 40), and then grind the one character you want those perks on to about 133, because you're now only grinding out tiers 2 and 3 of those perks, instead of all three tiers per perk.
Admittedly, that's marginally more BP in the long run because of the extra 10 levels per character, but the more characters you then take up after that, the more in credit you become.
Tbh, this is virtually the same result as a suggestion I once made to reducing the grind by a third. Which was that teachables don't just unlock the perks on the bloodweb, they actually teach the tier 1 of those perks automatically, so you only need to grind out the tiers 2 and 3 versions. Which would mitigate bloodweb RNG and reduce the overall grind by a third per character.
This is basically the same result, only at level 50 instead of level 40. Which is a fair trade off and still works out as a net benefit.
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Not it's not. Let's look at what you said.
Literally saying that if you want a Tier higher than 1, you have to Prestige the original character or the character you want the Perk on. It's not tied to Prestige. It's just leveling Bloodwebs like normal. Except now you don't have to try and find those level 1 versions in the Bloodweb. No more getting a new character to level 50 and only having a small fraction of the perks unlocked.
No it won't.
I am actually astonished at how so many people just can't understand simple facts around this. Also most of the people whining about it that have been playing the game for awhile and have already got a lot of perks or the perks they want so the new system doesn't apply to them, and its greatly beneficial for new players.
The grind has been massively cut. It just has been. If you think it hasn't you are just wrong because you don't understand the new system.
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Currently, you release the teachables into the Bloodweb; you don't necessarily have those perks unlocked in the characters' inventories. So I would say you are still reducing the grind since the level 1 perk will automatically be unlocked for you.
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I assume they're referring to the BBQ and Wglf nerfs. Those are going to hurt alot. Especially if you were leveling for addons and items and not perks.
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Are people really arguing against basekit bp bonuses? I think it also promotes a healthy gameplay style while not completely wrecking the bloodpoint economy.
Yes they do more bloodhunts now and we have flan but those things are still reduced by removing the bp bonuses. Let's not pretend they aren't. Are people really that defensive of BHVR that they will defend everything they do? Even when they've reduced bp gains overall? Seriously?
I'm not even saying they are bad for this. Just that they could do so much better
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The role incentives do go a fairway towards replacing BBQ/WGLF to be fair.
Lets face it, unless you're intentionally seeking out stacks, which few rarely do, you don't get the full 100%. I would say half my WGLF games end up with 2 stacks or fewer because I simply don't get the opportunity to unhook or take a protection hit, and getting tunnelled out is usually the culprit. Meanwhile if you get a really rough killer game or you get one immersed survivor, you can easily only get 2 or 3 stacks of BBQ.
The role incentives basically mean you will always be guaranteed at least a 25% bonus, at least one stack of WGLF or BBQ, automatically, without using up a perk slot, and chances of that being 50%, 75% or 100% depending on who else is playing at the time.
It's spreads it out more evenly, making the hard losses less punishing, while the great wins are less rewarding.
Lets be honest, you could never expect them to make the BBQ/WGLF BP bonuses basekit exactly as they are, because as it stands they're not used 100% of the time anyway and they're taking up a perk slot. These bonuses are being replaced with smaller, but more consistent base kit bonuses instead, and freeing up a perk slot in the process.
Also, theoretically, the equalising of queue times that will be a result of people taking advantage of these bonuses, should improve matchmaking, making more consistent games occur more... consistently. Theoretically at least...
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To be fair, they did say they were adding BP incentives for when the queues need equalizing.
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Mmhhh i think i made some typos there, which transfered the wrong message. Sorry i wrote that in between 2 matches.
What i meant in my first message was, that you prestige Dwight and unlock his 3 perks on all other survivors on lvl1. If you want lvl 2 and 3 you need to prestige Dwight 2 more times OR (this is the part that was confusing from my own writing) you have to spend the bloodpoints on the target survivor, say David, just like we do now.
Now, what i see as the issue is. That there is no point in prestiging every char 3 times, just to unlock all perks on everyone. Even more. Since survivors are only skins, there is no point in having all perks on all of them unlocked. So just leveling 2 or 3 of them to have all perks, was and still is the most cost efficient way.
So if you don´t want to have every perk on every char, which btw would be a huge bloodpoint sink, then the grind actually wasn´t reduced. Since without WGLF, you´ll have a harder time collecting the bloodpoints to level up.
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But lvl 1 doesn´t get you very far. Ask anyone who has been spending over a million bloodpoints in an attempt to get lvl 2 of BBQ.
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Entirely depends on the perk.
For example I am going to be refusing to P3 The Pig because tier 1 Make Your Choice is actually much, much more effective than tier 3.
And many tier 1 perks are perfectly serviceable as they are, even if a tier 3 version has a couple extra seconds duration or something.
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this sucks, I play with crossplay off so I won't get incentives as well. BBQ bonuses are really needed for ADDONS.
the bloodweb is filled with useless stuff and most bloodpoints go to those items.
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I get that, but it's largely irrelevant.
- Not everyone runs those perks every game
- No-one is getting maximum value out of those perks every single game
- The grind can and will be shorter for everyone. Those who can't envision it or do the math really should stick around until the update is live so they can see for themselves
Edit: Here's another thought. THE IDEA THAT WE FELT COMPELLED TO RUN THOSE PERKS WAS ASSANINE. I'm glad their bonuses are removed, I want to feel like I have 4 perk slots.
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If you really want a particular perk maxed out, then you just level up the character who has that teachable to hit P3.
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What difference does wanting to just play one person make?
When you unlock them, everyone gets them. That would include the person you want to play. You're not under any obligation to level any survivor you don't want to play beyond doing it to unlock their teachables if you want one of them.
I only play Felix. What difference does it make to me in how I unlock perks, if I only want to play Felix?
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The difference is a couple million bloodpoints.
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How? Literally how?
Seriously, walk me through this logic of yours in which perks automatically being given to every character you own instantly without you having to find them in the blood web means that leveling the character you want to focus on after that uses more blood points than leveling multiple characters to play as after words.
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I did. Survivors are only skins. There is literally no point in prestiging 26 survivors 3 times. Especially if you only want the perks on 1 char.
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And how would that change if the bonuses were made basekit?
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I agree it was ridiculous we needed to run them. However they didn't address the core reason why many people ran them. These changes are good for completionists and leaves the rest of us high and dry.
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So prestige them all once?
You have to get them to level 40 now anyway, so just get them to level 50 instead. Just 10 more bloodwebs. (chances are you've done this already, I know I have, I get all my survivors to 50, because leaving them at 40 just feels wrong for some reason)
This removes a third of the perk grind for the one character you do want to level up, as well as removing any bloodweb RNG as to what perks you have available when you start playing them, because they will have every perk at at least tier 1.
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It seems a lot of people also aren't considering how this will affect future releases.
As it is now when you buy a new character you have to start from scratch with 0 perks. With the update, the new character will automatically start with all the perks you've already unlocked. If you've raised every character to level 50 at least once any new character will automatically start with every perk unlocked at at least tier 1.
It's a significant reduction in the grind when you factor in how the current system exponentially increases the grind with each new character.
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Why would you Prestige every character 3 times? I'm not going to Prestige every character three times. That's insane.
I'm going to unlock the Perks I want, get them at Tier 1, and then just keep leveling Felix as normal for Items, Offerings, and Add ons, and get the level 2 and 3 Tiers of the Perks that way.
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The bonuses do not need to be made basekit. Item economy/scarcity can and should still exist, BHVR does not need us running iri's every single game unless we're seriously investing all of our BPs into one character to pull that off. That would be poor design and if they wanted no item economy, they would've given us addons for free every game.
Going to have to disagree, I believe once people see it live they will change their tune.
EDIT: Just a post thought about the worst case scenario. BRAND NEW PLAYER. Needs at least 4 perks, sourced from several characters. Let's say Bill, David, Jake, and Meg.
- Current way, level them to 30-40 for the single/additional perks they want and then on every single character they wish to play they need to start fishing, with that work being erased if they choose to prestige
- New way, spend the difference to get them to P1. No fishing but a few more blood webs after that per character. Sheer profit.
EDIT 2: Yes, I realize that a new player would have to do less fishing than a more established player, but there shouldn't be any argument that an established player benefits from the new system.
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If you consider that bloodpoint gains are getting halved that’s gonna be a lot more grindy than what we have now.
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That might remove 1/3rd of the perk grind but if you consider that bloodpoint gains are getting cut in half to compensate then it’s clear that this update is only gonna increase the grind for most people.
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Again, no. It's not. Bloodpoint gains are not getting "halved" They are staying normal. You just can't use BBQ and WGLF to get extra. But you'll have Role Incentives that do that for you instead.
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How are BP gains being cut in half? Because no BBQ?
See below:
Also the BBQ/WGLF bonuses like all other bonuses are additive, not multiplicative.
That means if you were to play for example a Survivor Pudding, your BBQ bonus would only equate to a third of your score. If there were Party Streamers in there too, only a quarter would be attributed to BBQ. Five Frightful Flans during a Bloodhunt? Sorry, your BBQ is only giving you 1/7th extra BP, and you wasted a perk slot on that.
There are still a lot of ways to gain BP bonuses, and one new innate bonus you can play around with that doesn't require a perk slot.
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Which will take longer due to the removal of the WGLF bonus bloodpoints...
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10 characters
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This is exactly my complaint and why the whole “yeah but we changed the prestige system to reduce the grind” argument does not address the core issue for a lot of players. Playing killer is going to be a lot more frustrating now because you’ll get half the BP you did before the change and you still have to spend most of your BP on useless garbage just to get that one useful addon that you want. I’d be much happier with the overall scope of perk changes if it weren’t for this one idiotic change that unfortunately BHVR probably won’t do anything about. They’ve made up their minds about what you the players want, and that’s the end of the argument.
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There's a trick people don't see to have worked out yet, going by dev comments that "any teachables learned before the changes go live will act as a prestige teachable".
If you level a new character to level 49 now, you will unlock their teachables.
The changes go live and all of your characters immediately get that characters perks at tier 1, because you've already learned the teachable version.
You then level them one more time to 50 and prestige them. This unlocks the teachables again, upgrading all instances to tier 2.
You've just cut 50 bloodweb levels out of your grind.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3020420/#Comment_3020420
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Here's the maths people 'can't do' that shows why this change is primarily a negative for new players joining the game:
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I wish I had learned this trick before leveling a handful of characters to exactly 50. x_x
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If you're exactly 50, it might still work, because the qualifier isn't being level 50, it's prestiging, which becomes available at level 50.
So you might still be unprestiged, but still have the teachables. So you click the prestige option without any more BP required, and get tier 2's unlocked.
It'll depend on how they grandfather in the post-50 bloodweb levels.
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GAME CHANGER (MAYBE)
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Yeah, I'm also not ruling out bugs with how many quirks this system change is allowing room for. Maybe it'll all go wrong and no one will be grandfathered in anything, and then we all get an apology and 50k BP as compensation.
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