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Why do people genuinely defend Nurse?
For the past few weeks, the amount of unenjoyable Nurse games has absolutely skyrocketed, nearly every 2nd/3rd game regardless if I have been winning/losing has just been Nurse, Nurse, another Nurse, maybe if the game is feeling nice they'll give me a different killer, then a return to our all-Nurse marathon.
In every single one of these games, we as a team get stomped every. single. time. It's gotten to the point where I don't understand how Nurse apparently has a "low killrate", either they're all sitting at the very bottom of MMR, or someone's not telling the whole truth.
Aside from just feeling frustrated about what feels like a killer with no real counterplay (That I know of anyway, seriously please what am I supposed to do against her?) I'm sitting her wondering outside of the occasional twitter post picketing for a Nurse Nerf, I honestly see a ton of people defending Nurse purely because we feel there needs to be atleast one "strong" killer to combat survivors. Doesn't that seem really unhealthy for the game to just have a single character that trumps all?
Genuinely looking for some extra insight on this.
Comments
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because shes a problem thats the answer to a problem so that problem becomes ok because problems
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unfun nurse games is comparable to unfun SWF games.
If we aren't going to nerf SWF, then don't touch Nurse as she is the only one that can realistically handle the swat squad comp SWFs.
THE MAIN reason not to nerf is because a huge meta shake up is happening really soon that still needs to be deep dived before any nerfs to solo survivor, SWF or killer happens further.
The best counter-play is to use line of sight blocking and learning how to disguise your movement to make you harder to follow. Shes the best killer in the game, if she gets you quickly, it doesn't reflect on you as much so do not be hard on yourself or your team
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Because when you win against bad killers your MMR goes up which means you only play killers who actually want to win so they play nurse and blight, the two killers who can actually compete at high-tier MMR.
She's one of the easiest killers to mind game, good luck doing mind games vs a good blight who can curve around everything unless it's on a bad map like ormond and yamaoka.
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The only caveat to Nurse is that she has an extremely high skill floor. The fanbase for a longest time accepted that Nurse will always be the best but since there's that massive skill barrier it's not a big deal.
I guess now people are either learning how to play Nurse more or the discussion of her oppressiveness was brought back up. She may need nerfs, but the community should also challenge their thoughts and find ways to counterplay Nurse. She has them.
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She has plenty weaknesses but it's takes time to learn them and be able to exploit them. (Less than to use her well enough to be dangerous) Her low kill rate is because she is difficult to use and good teams know how to beat her. (For the same skill level.)
I will not enumerate counters yet again as they have been repeated on many posts. I'm sure someone will give some of them though with, possibly, some video.
The one thing to do that beats about everything is to play her. It's true for every killer but since she is one of the special ones hands-on experience is best. The downside is that it takes a while to be able to do anything and most don't want to do that (complaining is easier).
I've just been called a god Nurse again. I'm not. What happened is that I went against a group that has very clearly less experience than me. (I got some downs just by walking and mind-gaming like an M1 killer.) When I go against a team of my level (in the 2k-3k hours range) and I'm labelled that way, it's just it was the one game that week where every little prediction was spot on and where I didn't miss a single blink.
edit:
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Do you mind elaborating on the ways to counterplay her then? No joke would honestly be a big help.
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Because she is fun.
Fight me.
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Doesn't refusing/neglecting to discuss the ways she has counterplay just continue to further the narrative of her not having counterplay? I get that you're probably sick to death of talking about it, but even just a quick tl;dr is appreciated.
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No, it has been discussed. A search on the forums will find many results. (On Youtube too.) I'm sure one of the usual suspects will write a whole page later. It's just too late in the night to do that now.
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Honestly, I'm not sure how to do so, but high level Nurses have fought high level survivor teams and didnt get a 4k.
I don't spend a lot of time as survivor so I can't answer that questions. All I know is that she has counterplay but its tricky.
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She is difficult to learn.
She has a cool power.
She has a chance against skilled survivors and swf.
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Because SWF. Nurse is the answer to a sweaty 4-man squad on Discord. As a solo player, I would be happy to see both Nurse and SWF removed lol. But that won't happen of course.
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Why do people genuinely downplay and defend SWF? and now we are stuck in an endless loop of what gets nerfed first. I do agree with your point that having a killer head and shoulders above the rest is bad design....but when that's the only way to deal with good survivors what exactly is your idea for balance? Nerf nurse and just afk if you get a good survivor squad?
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Come on you can't nerf the tryhard 4-man SWF cause those are like 0.00001% of the game you'd just be punishing casual players for playing with their friends!!! You think it's cool to punish someone for playing with their friend?
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Off topic but I am glad to see you commenting again :)
On topic, I personally think she is fun to face and maneuver around. I think she may need some tweaks but nothing extraordinary that makes her unfun to play as as well.
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Thanks!
It is good to be back :)
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Move erratically.
Use LOS blockers
Mind game and double back a lot.
Figure out when she's going to blink by listening to her sound effects.
If she's chasing you and not blinking run in a straight line. You're faster.
Watch for the red light that shows where she's blinking to in general.
I'm not saying this will work against a high MMR Nurse as I'm not a high MMR solo survivor but, on my opinion, the only reason why most people say Nurse is OP is because they haven't played Nurse to the point they can semi reliably land blink attacks.
Nurse has a very unique power but there a lot of things that can mess Nurse up. Try to play her, note what messes you up, and then try that on the Nurses you face. She's a very strong Killer once you've practiced a lot but, while learning her, you'll quickly learn why her kill rate is so low
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People really overestimate how difficult it is to get good at nurse. It does take time and effort and skill and muscle memory because I mean I've gone through the pain of learning her myself way back when I would actually play her, but the ratio of skill floor to strength is way more balanced on a killer like blight, who I would 100% argue without a doubt in my mind has a harder power to learn and master than nurse, but nurse gives much higher results despite this in terms of her strength even though she's unable to play chases normally if she's struggling to use her power unlike a blight. In fact other killers like hag and arguably hillbilly are much harder to perform well with, and yet get much lower overall results than the nurse, which is why she needs another nerf/rework.
Of course survivors have many issues that can make nurses power be a little more warranted but whataboutism doesn't fix anything. This is the "dont nerf keys until you nerf moris" garbage all over again. Eventually both got what they deserved because it was evident after changing one that the other really was the problem they suspected it to be. Patience wont kill you but the nurse sure will
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Nurse is a classic I hope they always tune her to keep things fresh but never touch her core concepts. If they did DBD would lose a piece of itself
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Every killer has a chance against skilled survivors and SWF. Stop using Ms. Fundamentally Broken as an excuse for being bad with other killers.
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I'm curious what makes you say that, according to BHVRS most recent stat dump, most killers were hoverring around the 50-55ish% kill rate average across all MMRS. Based on history it's been a downward trend from some killers have 60%+ kill rates in the past. If that trend continues we are probably below 50 for most killers(this also makes sense given BHVRs own words of the kill rates are too low across the board). If we make some leaps of logic it's not hard to assume that kill rates low at high MMR(much < 50%) and probably higher than 50% at low MMR.
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People defend nurse for two reasons, one more important than the other.
The first is that nurse does indeed take some practice. Now, for me personally it didn't take that long to get good at nurse but the statistics for kill rates will show you that a lot of folks do indeed struggle So, some people feel as if their investment in the character justifies the return, that she should be good becuase it took time to master. This is not the most important reason.
The most important reason is that nurse is fun. She may be the best killer by far, but that's not even why I enjoy playing her. Having super high mobility and zipping around the map is just enjoyable, and people don't want to lose the thing they enjoy.
Now i'm not one of those people who thinks she isn't busted, she absolutely needs some kind of attention from the devs, but that's the thing I'd estimate makes people jump to her defense
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If the developers ever thought she was OP she would have been nerfed years ago.
They are the ones with the stats.
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Thanks for being the first person on this thread to give an answer to counterplay that doesn't boil down to "There is counterplay, but I won't tell you what it is".
I'll admit, I'm pretty sure I've employed all of these strats before and they almost always rarely work. That might be something on my part, I know it has worked againsnt me a few times when I play as Nurse, though lately when I play Nurse to try and better understand how to play against her, I honestly feel like I just turn my brain off and still end up winning. It might just be a case where I've become decent or at the very least "okay" at playing her, but she honestly does just feel "easy" to me.
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"Every killer has a chance"
No, just no.
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Wrong. If you think that, you don’t have enough experience
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The Nurse is the only killer who cannot catch you by chasing, she has to use her power. The secret to beating Nurse is to remove her power from her. She needs to be able to see you to blink to you reliably, so what you gotta do is remove her line of sight. Once you've done this, she needs to start guessing where you are. If you find yourself in a chase against Nurse, find an area with lots of LoS blockers, preferably somewhere indoors. Then, just ######### keep turning back on yourself and keep joking and jiving. Also, if the opportunity presents itself, GTFO of there, once again her only way to catch you is to blink to you, and so if you can create enough space between yourself and her she will need to drop chase.
But above all of that, just don't get caught. I know it's harder than it sounds, but if she never finds you, she can't hit you.
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I saw you ask for genuine advice I think, earlier on my phone. Give this thread a read: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/325952/tell-me-how-to-counter-a-nurse/p1
Ignore the salty comments that say pray in the beginning, and keep reading. There is counterplay advice here for survivors ranging from easy newb advice all the way to to higher level stuff.
Edit: The big takeaway is that it's not just one piece of advice you need to follow, if you put all the advice together you reach a very magical situation, which is that you will have her properly LOS'd when she is making the second blink. Once you get there, you have significantly more control.
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Do explain how a trapper main has a chance against a swf that is telling everyone where his traps are?
How a Mikey or GF or any other stealth killer can counter a swf that is telling everyone where he is?
In a normal game, by the time the killer hooks 1 survivor 3 gens can pop. In the time it took killer to do 1/12 their objective, the survivors accomplished 3/5s theirs. The killers objective requires significantly more time to accomplish than the survivor. Against skilled survivors the game falls apart. It gets even worse when SWF is thrown into the mix. Nurse is the only real chance people have against a decent swf.
A side note. I dont like playing as nurse. Its also frustrating. I try to play other killers but do you know what happens? I get curb stomped, tea bagged at the exit gate and they spam "GG EZ". I didn't want to learn how to play Nurse but I have to work with a broken system. If you want to see less Nurse's than ask BHVR to make more killers viable.
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Nurse is OP similar to how SWF is OP. They both allow players to go up against players who may be better than them, and still win. This is not fair for either side.
SWF allows survivors to do things that give make the game very easy, so the killer facing them generally has to play better. SWF is OP.
Nurse allows the killer player to do the same. When the nurse player reaches the much-lower-than-people-think skill barrier, they start dominating. Nurse is OP.
Of course, if the SWF side isn't that good, and if the nurse player isn't that good, it doesn't matter whether they are using these OP tools or not. That doesn't mean they both aren't OP. SWF is OP. Nurse is OP.
Don't listen to the people defending nurse. The singular reason why people defend nurse and not SWF despite both being grossly OP, is nurse is a solo role. These nurse players think that having such an advantage while playing the nurse is fine because it is easier to say "i'm just that good" or "no one knows how to play against Nurse" or some variation of the same old lies.
Know what is funny, though? These same nurse mains all claim SWF is OP. At the same time, they say only nurse and blight can handle SWF. If one OP thing (SWF) can be beaten by something even up to the absolute top level (nurse), that means nurse is OP. Like, obviously...
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My favorite killer to verse. She is the only Killer that actually encourages survivors not to attract her attention.
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Because killer mains either like Nurse and defend her, or they don't care and don't bother responding. Survivor mains do the same thing with SWFs, if they play with their friends they defend SWFs and if they don't they just scroll by because they don't care.
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By far, the most intelligent and unbiased message from the whole thread :)
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The biggest thing that is used to counter Nurse is being genuinely unpredictable which is confusing to a lot of people, but there is a big difference between predictable survivors and unpredictable survivors. As Nurse you want to be able to put yourself into the survivor's shoes and figure out where they are going each time you blink so you can plan ahead and predict them, like for example I have had games where I honestly struggle to read people when I don't have LoS on them because every time I do a chase with them they always change up their playstyle, directions, and just be generally trying to send me information that isn't correct.
It definitely makes more sense when you see it in action, but the easiest way to do it is using LoS blockers and just keep your eye on the Nurse at all times you can see where she is going to blink as she angles the blink and as she charges her blink depending on her add-ons you can predict how far she will go. The best way to counter Nurse is by trying to stay up as long as possible don't be the predictable survivors who tend to go down in seconds you need to try to be as unpredictable and be as unpredictable as possible.
The more time you waste the better chance you win against Nurse even if you have a team that doesn't know how to face Nurse and goes down in seconds as long as there is at least one player who can last long enough it can really change the game from being a loss to a win. I suggest if you and your friends really wanna be serious about playing against a Nurse try practicing against a friend or someone who knows how to play Nurse and each time you face her don't just instantly resign yourself to it being a loss and think of it as each chase the longer you last the better the chance you will win.
Addons can really change the counterplay for Nurse as recharge makes it so the Nurse is more relentless and genuinely faster so you need to be on your toes at all times continuously trying to evade her makes it a lot harder to get double backs and giving misreads so the best way is to each time you misdirect her just sprint as she is trying to figure out where you are from the misdirection sprint while you have time away from her making as much distance as possible and try to make it to another area with lots of LoS blockers. This type of player genuinely can make me lose the game, no matter how much I dislike shift w I have to admit it's really good against recharge Nurse. The range on the other hand shift w doesn't work against its way better to give misdirections and double backs depending on how much the Nurse charges you need to understand its way easier for the Nurse to over blink with range so you need to abuse that fact by acting like you are going to go farther than you will and try to make it as confusing as possible. Whatever you don't just shift w in one direction against range though, Nurse makes up that distance and if she reads you will continue running in a straight line you will get hit only do it when you know for sure the Nurse doesn't have eyes on you and doesn't know which direction you are shift w'ing towards.
There are more ways to counter Nurse and misdirect, but I am a bit tired out from all the typing, but I hope this helps you at least if you genuinely wanted to know what you need to do to face off against a Nurse.
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From what I understand at top MMR she's really the only killer who can compete with the top tier survivor SWF groups.
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Also dont stay at structures, loops etc.
Always keep running in paths she wouldnt expect, this works 99% of the time for me since they always blink to the wrong direction then and i get tons of distance.
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I don't defend her, I just accept her. There are difficult aspects to this game on both sides - for killers it's skilled coordinated swfs, and for survivors it's skilled Blight and Nurse mains. I'm just in neutral territory lol
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I'd say that the only adjustments she needs for now are changing her blink attacks to special attacks and nerfing/removing range addons.
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It's really a coin flip, last match I went against a nurse who slugged me until I died. But then a few games prior I went against a nurse that legitimately felt like a fair and fun challenge (even if I also died in the end).
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I play nurse a lot. I agree that she does need a change. I think Nurse has too much room for error for how strong she is. You miss your first blink? You have a second blink to correct yourself. I do not mind this, as I feel it is fair. However, I do think her lunge distance should be decreased. I feel that her lunge is something that is not talked about enough, as it makes it so survivors have a much smaller margin of error compared to her. A survivor making 1 bad read is worse than a Nurse making 2. Her blink attack should still count as a base attack and not a special attack, though. also remove her range add-ons
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nurse COULD (if the player that is using her is really good) be the equivalent of a team with brand new parts, instaheals and meta perks... a pain to deal with... until devs won't start changing ALL those chances the nurse can stay in that current state (she's still a lot more weaker than a premade with all those items/perks tho... the example one of my last matches with her: i missed only a couples of blinks in the entire match and i got only a single kill with 4 hooks... i would say that i was aganist cheaters cause gens were flying absurdly fast, but all those 2nd chances could effectively gave them the time needed to do gens (the only killer that can bypass most of those 2nd chances is bubba... i wonder if i should start maining him at this point)
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Only those that play her are ready to defend her
Every human with a single brain cell will tell you she is unbalanced and should be nerfed, only this way we will see variety again, I'm tired to face her every single game as well
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I don't understand the Nurse hate on tgis forum. She is my favorite killer to go against as you have to actually try to think in a chase. I play solo que or with my wife, who could not loop nurse if she could not blink. I love when I hear that shriek in the beginning because I know it will be a helluva chase soon.
Seriously, don't just hold W and keep breaking LoS while being unpredictable and Nurse is a blast!
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You missed April Fools day, this would have been better then. Most killers are nothing but entertainment for a skilled team. M1 killers especially. There is a reason Trapper is clowned on regularly online. He's a victim more than a force to fear.
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Mostly are comment saying map balance and survivor are BUSTED , so we need something the same as
brokenstrong to win.(And its true , but the point is making the game interactive for both sides , a killer that ignores any skill on the other side is not fine or funny)
you just either Hold W or you are breaking LOS every single time , you are guessing everytime shes gonna blink , and thats not skillfull either you just get a lucky read or you just die on a bad guess , Nurse Mains pls not everyone is a toxic SWF , people want to try new builds but when a nurse is heared on the other side of the map, the first thing my mouth say is : OUGHHHHHHH hopefully the nurse is not bringing slowdown perks.
*gen gets blocked and a teammate goes down in 10 seconds*
me: 🤤 (pls dont slug , pleaseeee)
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In my opinion, basekit nurse is fine. Many of her addons though are the most annoying overpowered jank in the game.
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majority low mmr, the number awhile ago showed nurse not overperforming meaning if you nerf the nurse you are siding to the minority and that provides challenges
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I think nurse takes alot of skill to master ive mained her since her release and though she can feel broken in the right hands, you have to understand that person put alot of time and effort to get to that point, I challenge anyone who thinks nurse is easy to master to pull up to a KYF with your nurse and prove it.
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I do not understand why people always go in the diretion to complain about her add ons
you still have to be good at Nurse to use them properly
Alchemist ring, mother daughter ring, pinky finger, tombstone and similar are bunch of actually BS add ons to go against and feel way more unfair
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