Stop using the word toxic
No, its not toxic to tunnel, its not toxic to camp, its not toxic to body block, its not toxic to flashlight save, its not toxic to sabotage hooks, its not toxic to genrush, its not toxic to play with swf, its not toxic to slug when necessary, its not toxic to use any perk u want, its not toxic to use certain map offerings, its not toxic to run to corners, its not toxic to use a certain killer with certain add-ons, its not toxic to outplay the enemy, its not toxic to camp pallets, its not toxic to play bad, its not toxic to use mechanics in a game to your advantage and that goes both side.
All these things are frustrating and annoying for sure but they are certainly not toxic.
What is toxic is to use a flashlight macro, an auto deadhard macro, saying nasty stuff in end game chat, slugging every survivor to death because u got outplayed (although sometimes when u cannot reach a hook because the survivors positioned themselves in such way its necessary), dcing cause u got outplayed, letting other survivors get killed cause of spite or killing them by bodyblocking them etc
This game, as like every other pvp game has mechanics that u need to learn and take advantage of or possibly counter.
I am a killer main, and it was super frustrating at first, but eventually i learned the game, the strengths and the weaknesses of each side and i understand their problems and so should everybody else.
Although i still hate Iron Will..
Comments
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1 flashlight save is OK.
But when you have 3 survivors running with you during 2 minutes just to save their pal with a flashlight. This is toxic.
Same for body blocking.
Survivors must do gen, not bullying killer.
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I generally agree, but I think that if a surv team goes into the match and their priority is to clown on and frustrate the killer with repeated and coordinated blinds and stuns, and primary objectives and escape are an afterthought, that is toxic behavior.
Of course, it's only really annoying if the team is actually good at it, because most times they aren't and the end result is a 4K.
But still, intent matters.
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Flashlights are meant for this and body blocking is not toxic if you're trying to save your teammate.
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There are ways u can counter that:
lightborn
Switching sides fast when u pick up
Learning when to pick up in order to not get flashed
Forced Pennance
Hitting the bodyblocker and continuing the chase
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I dunno, most of the time u just 4k on 4 or 5 gens. If they are this good that they can 4man escape whilst bullying the killer then u gotta give it to them and move on.
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I think most people agree with you, OP. The issue is that the killer and survivor have two wildly different perspectives on how a match is evolving, so any particular behavior at any given time may appear more personal or vindictive to the opposing side.
Exhibit A:
The killer hooks their first survivor at 5 gens remaining, and can see the remaining 3 survivors are near or running towards the hook to make a play. The killer opts to camp hook, rather than commit to a chase, as securing a trade or even running the hook timer to second stage are strategically correct decisions.
The survivors, who are all solo and have no line of sight or aura reading on their teammates, see the killer is camping first hook at 5 gens. Each of them spin circles hoping the killer will run to them, but neither is succesful in goading a chase. From the survivors point of view, the killer is being toxic because they are forcing a second hook state/trade 3 minutes into the match with no gens done. What the survivors don't see is that no one is making any real progress on the objective, giving the killer substantial reason to leave hook and spread map pressure.
This is one scenario out of dozens, if not hundreds, that can occur in-game. And while the opposing side might be unjust for accusing their opponent of being toxic, this problem will never be remedied. The game is designed with information (or a lack-there-of) at its core.
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Thats the thing though isnt it? If u neglect aura perks u wont get aura. If u play a killer with a chase oriented build dont expect to protect gens efficiently. Same goes to survivors running second chance or healing perks
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The game has so many ways to counter specific things. I for instance run enduring-spirit fury on ghostface to remedy his "poor" antiloop and almost 100% secure a marked instadown if the survivor runs me through pallets. I dont expect to contend gens a lot so i commit to chases
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You are exactly right my friend. End game chat and cheating is really the only toxic thing about this game
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Free damage, or are you just not hitting the survivors to get out of the way?
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Definition of what's toxic is not up to individual to decide. For example, if majority of people consider middle finger obscene gesture, than that is what it is. You can't say: "don't call showing middle finger obscene, it's just demonstrating one of my fingers". Feel free to define "toxic" as you please, but telling it to others is futile. You are not a dictionary authority and will never be one.
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disagree on this point: "slugging every survivor to death because u got outplayed"
slugging is a gamemechanic too, im sry
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If u down all survivors its most likely the end of the game, so just hook them and go next. No point in letting everybody in the ground for 4 minutes. Any other instance slugging is fair game
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No when all three bodyblock the hook that's going beyond saving a teammate and to agrivate and troll the killer. 1 person body blocking is fine.
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Right, i'm not disagreeing with you. Just felt I should comment on the nature of why people won't stop complaining about toxicity anytime soon.
While we're on the topic tho, what do you think about this scenario? Happened just minutes ago...
Killer running Franklin's chased me over half the game, then place a portal over the medkit I set on the ground and defended it instead of patrolling the last 2 gens or contesting the exit gates. The portal made it really difficult to pick up the medkit, and although I was chased 75% of the time, I wouldn't say I was tunneled because it was a short match.
I had fun--I accepted that my win condition was to escape with my medkit or die trying, and it didn't feel high stakes to me because I have 20 other purple medkits on Haddie.
Things to consider:
- My enjoyment was most likely at the detriment of 3 other survivors who had little-to-no interaction with the killer
- A survivor with less BP/less medkits in reserve may feel singled-out or targeted by this behavior
- In general, this was a massive refusal to participate in normal gameplay
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We do gens and then you come on the forums or reddit and whine about it.
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There are way too many individual who have been pampered and protected against reality all their life. Anything that disturbs their bubble is "toxic" to them.
Good luck trying to reason with that.
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I dont know how what to comment about your situation.
U probably had your fun and most likely the killer had fun aswell. Neither u nor the killer should influence the amount of fun someone gets of a game. Its not your job to do. While u distracted the killer your teammates managed to complete the gens and escape.
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As the arbiter of toxicity, I'm asking what you think of the killer's behavior
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He lost the game because he wanted to play around franklins demise. Dont think its toxic that he wanted to rob u of your item. Id consider it annoying tho
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So can I use unhealthy, perverse, awful, cruel and antagonistic instead?
Ok, seriously, I do agree with you.
Teabagging and extreme clicking however, can indeed be perceived as.... Unhealthy as can be endgame chat.
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You have no idea of how many times I have heard that even looping is toxic. Bruh...
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To expound on what other's have said,
Subjective it may be, a line does exists somewhere out there between ordinary gameplay activities and the same activates taken to such extremes and severity that a player is overly--whether they'll admit it or not--acting with an intent and desire to make their opponent actually feel bad for their own petty pleasures.
I.E., it's that brand of toxicity that real world sports often implement run-rules to shutdown
There's a genuine difference from simply playing to win, however that subjectivity really complicates the whole issue in both discussion and observation. The people guilty of this type of griefing can more easily hide behind that "just playing to win" excuse too. Meanwhile, people simply unhappy with a game or getting frustrated of their own accord can be prone to interpreting maliciousness from ordinary competition exists. Both cases might involve shameless liars trying to gaslight, but both are also convenient means for people to delude themselves, complicating things even more, even more. Though, to deny any line exists at all only helps people excuse their ######### behaviors to themselves.
I think people try to define toxicity in terms of specific acts and behaviors since the objectivity is much easier to pin down, though--to be more precise at the cost of accuracy--that's all ultimately irrelevant anyway. Acts aren't inherently meaningful. They're just the medium.
These behaviors people catalog in threads like especially common/likely mediums for expressing that intended message & experience which we're truly concerned with when we talk "toxicity."
That aspect to toxicity that ultimately matters is someone seizing a game--this experience we collectively engage as inherently fun and trivial--and weaponing it to make someone experience pain, degradation, and/or embarrassment for their own petty, shameful amusement and whatever sense of supremacy that can possibly provide.
Essentially.... toxicity exists wherever it exists. Yeah, not a very helpful practical definition. Like "I'll know it when I see it" it's just the proper one per situations that involve enough intellectual honesty to apply it. Unfortunately intellectual honestly is in short supply these days.
If that general level of introspection and honesty were really possible though we wouldn't have that mind-numbing "Its just ctrl bruh" and all the other abstractions/delusions people just keep parroting again and again despite falling to complete ######### after like 2 damn seconds of thinking about communication as a process at all, or comparing real world parallels and prohibitions to see how society at large actually handles things and the default expectations of interaction...
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What a toxic request.
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I saw the words unhealthy and just stared at the Plague’s face.
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People need to learn the difference between in game 'toxic', and actual toxic, if you got someone clicking and bagging all game, but says gg and is a good sport in end game compared to someone who didn't bm in game, but throws insults and slurs in end game, which one is really toxic
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Nothing is toxic at all if they dont intend to be.
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Wut?
You can't tell me what to do
That's toxic
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It takes multiple hits to get someone off since there are so many hooks near each other. If you think that's just bm, you probably should play survivor and let 1 person take a hit and see if you wiggle off. It's never gonna happen.
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couldn’t help it.
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Hooks are not as close as you think on alot of maps especially if someone brings in the branch to spread out the hooks further. Me and my friends tested out bringing in multiple branches and the poor killer only had one maybe two hooks to work with that's close by to the down.
Besides that if the Killer has committed to a hook they are usually too far to make it to another hook unless they are using IG Agitation combo even then if they are already at the hook body blockers can still keep the from hooking. Septic Agent comes to mind.
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the toxicity is only in the endgame chat… that’s all
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I understand the team showing up if said person is on death hook but realistically the whole team shouldn't be there when said person goes down.
Now what about in the situation where there's 1-2 gens left killers at 0 hooks and the whole team is there to block the killers first and probably only hook. There is no real advantage to bodyblocking the killer at that point its actually more effectively to let them get that hook and finish the gens.
BTW slugging the whole team and letting them bleed out is pretty toxic in this killer mains opinion.
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When will we finally resolve all of these first world problems?
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Slugging is a valid tactic but slugging everyone just because you want them to bleed out is toxic. There is even an achievement for taking hits while someone is being carried. This is not bm. Letting a killer get a hook just because is stupid if you can do something to prevent it. It's why we have Sabo, Sabo toolboxes and even normal toolboxes can be used. We even have a perk to help people wiggle off the shoulders faster. Saying bodyblocking a hook is bm is just stupid.
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It matters not which map has hooks. There is a lot more hooks than there use to be after an update they did awhile back. Survivors are a TEAM. You're supposed to do what you have to to help your TEAM. It's a natural part of the game. I play a ######### ton of killer and survivor and I don't think I've EVER complained about teammates taking a hit to prevent a hook. It's a base mechanic, an achievement, there are perks to help with it even. This discussion shouldn't even be a thing. Flashlight saves are also not bm. Neither is flicking it. It's a distraction to get you to target that person. The only bm things are slugging a 4k and letting them bleedout just because you felt like it, blocking your teammates in until the killer gets them, points their teammates out, a killer blocking you in all game until endgame inevitably kills you and teabagging at pallets to show your dominance after a pallet slam. THOSE are bms.
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No. The best way is Starstruck ;) let them get that flashlight save xD Take their save out of other's health states xD.
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Run Lightborn. For all of my killers that have it unlocked, I have a main build and a backup build with Lightborn slotted. Flashlight crew shows up in lobby, swap to backup build.
Plus it's fun to farm people who only know how to use a flashlight and will stand in front of you shining it in your face long enough to get downed and hooked.
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Strange letting survivors bleed out seems all ok for me because that's not toxic behavior I'm leaving you bleed out to draw your friends in like bait.
Also yes clicky click squads is toxic especially if they are using a macro. That has been discussed about it affecting people with epilepsy from to strobing light
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Starstruck is another fun one to throw in. Combine either Starstruck or Forced Penance with Mad Grit and survivors will give you a wide berth while you're hooking someone.
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It's toxic to tell others what words they can use 😉
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I think folks need a sense of humor about this too. It's a game, after all. What stands out on this forum is arrogance and entitlement. People want to win EVERY game and feel their desires should be met no matter the effect on others. You win some, you lose some. Utilize the tactics and resources that will get your desired result, and if you come up short, be humble and recognize that you were outplayed. Sometimes it's lag, a glitch, or some technical issue. Oh well. I agree with OP, the word toxic is used incessantly and out of context around here. Who cares if you "lose"? Just enjoy the game. Enjoy the experience itself and move on.
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That's toxic.
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The only Thing that is very Toxic is Survivor teabagging and flaahlight clicking there is no valid reason to do it except being toxic
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But doesn’t literally EVERY killer complain about gen speeds? Like it’s a lose lose no matter what you do as a survivor at this point.
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I never said a Macro. I said flicking. Repeatedly pushing the button to get the killer to chase you. Slugging that way is fine but when everyone is down and you let them bleed out just because, THAT is bm and considered toxic. Otherwise, bait is always fine, specially going for that 4k at the very end when only 2 are alive. It's why we have deerstalker.
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Flashlight clicking is a legit strategy to get your attention from gens or a downed survivor. Teabagging is yeah xD it's a bit toxic lol. Seeing a GF do it is priceless, though xD
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Even though you used said word numerous times in your own post, I agree. End-game chat however... is sometimes truly something else.
Says the one with the BOW picture 😂 (jk)
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If you camp, tunnel, hit on hook, nod, and/or run NOED... expect some big bags and clicks in the exit gate area.
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I couldn't help it either.
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