Nurse (and some other killer mains) mentality thread with some data
So before we start my opinion: Nurse is stupidly OP killer that anybody can learn in week or two and then go stomp pubs, and she should be nerfed with her OP addons.
Ok so the whole Nurse mains, and a lot of people on this forum mentality is "Survivors bad, killers good" and also "Swf is OP please nerf", but yeah, I could agree on SWF in some way, but not the way that at least loudest ones on this forum talk about.
A lot of these people thinks that nurse should not be nerfed because of strenght of SWF (4 man, I assume), especially on high MMR, but there will be my personal experience, take it if you want, I love to play blight and I win most of my games NOT EVEN USING 4 META PERKS, and I play blight a lot. Why do I win? Because most of survivors are just decent, even at high MMR and I assume, I repeat, I assume that my blight at high MMR because I play as him a lot and I win a lot. So I rarely get 4 man swf, and when I get, I loose sometimes yeah, because I am not using meta perks, but even in those cases I have around 50% KR.
Now back to those mentality, for some reason a lot of people thinks that they are playing against 4 man SWF every game, but it's just not possible, check this stats, yes, it's pretty old but I hardly doubt something changed now, even if we assume you only playing against 4 man swf at high mmr, what time it will take to find a game? My queue time is pretty fast
So as we can see, ~50% players are solo, 25% are duo, about 10% are trio, and only 6% are 4 man, and based on my experience, this is still pretty correct.
But maybe 4 man have anomaly high escape rate? Nah, it's around 50%.
I know this is old stat, sadly, there are no MMR distribution, but I talked with a lot of people, especially killer mains, their experience is pretty much same as mine, they are also winning most of their games, even when they are playing against 4 man. And trust me, there are almost no competitive squads, I've played only against one since MMR was added.
Competitive squad can win best nurse, but you are talking about THE BEST, THE 0.001% of players THAT ARE LITERALLY TRAINING 4+ HRS A DAY HOW TO PLAY AGAINST NURSE. Do you really expect the same from average players, or even good players? Yes, there are also not much competitive nurses, but you don't have to be competitive to win most of your games, even against good survivors.
But hey, you could say, I don't trust you, you have no proofs, why should I beelieve to you?
I know for some weird reason people hate when others taking content creators as prooving point, "You don't have your own opinion!" I have my own opinion, I stated it at the start of this thread, my opinion matches with player, that make living by playing DBD tho I assume he is way more experienced than me and most of dbd players. I'm talking about Otz
He did the perkless, afk for 30s challenge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0sr-m6fcNs
Pretty good results for such challenge, and ofc best games was on nurse, blight and spirit, 3 killers that everyone will consider top tier.
My opinion? He got a bit lucky, why a bit? Because he mostly played against solos, but MOST of killer games are against solos, if you don't beelieve, check stats at top or check your opponent's profiles.
I know also Tru3 accepted this challenge, but as far as I know he tried to play "fair" and he was unlucky in most of the games.
But CCs such as Dowsey, SpookAndJukes and others got pretty much the same results as Otz
Why did they win? They camped and tunneled, yes, these strats are very effective and can carry most of your games, I think you already know that.
Regardless, that's your average experience of playing killer, but for some reason a lot of players don't wanna accept it and only remember bad games.
Before we will go to good nurses killrates lets watch this
Why? Because a lot of players claim that she has lowest killrate and shouldn't be nerfed, but any experienced player will look at this and say that this is just not true
Now back to Nurse players mentality with everything we know, they win at least 60% of their games, because soloq is awful, 75% if we also take duoq, but in fact this number will be around 90%.
Every.Single.Nurse.Player will camp and tunnel as soon as something will get out of control, even slightly. I have no problem with that, we are all doing our objective, but unlike bubba, nurse can camp effectively, especially in cases where there are gens nearby, no, you can't really counter that, a lot of times nurse is camping triangle, and I am not talking about the 1 last gen situaton, most of the times it's 4 gen situation. Not to mention everyone is playing with best perks and addons, but this is the same for survivors sometimes, we'll get to this later.
Also, not really fair point for DBD but let's take LoL or DoTA for example, if character have over 50% WR, he is strong, lower, he is weak. I would like to know what's killrate nurse have at high mmr for sure, but based on some nurse mains I've watched, it's around 100%. For example, RapidMain Who wong 25 games in a row as nurse, he had challenge, unlike most of nurse players
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyV6FmeS9r4&t=328s
Even in games I've mentioned above smurfs or boosters don't have 100% WR, in LoL they have around 65-70%, but they are not playing at their rank
The almost last but not least, perk nerfs, especially DH DS IW. The ones that kinda countered nurse and tunnel situations, they will be nerfed soon, and I hope to see incredible nurse killrate increase so she will be nerfed too.
The last and least, my thoughts about maining nurse, this is boring, this is boring to win almost every game, without putting any effort, without having any challenge, but that's me.
TL;DR
Most of survivors are soloq casuals, stop this mentality "Survivor bad, Killer good", you are barely even playing against 4 man swf, so you are should be able to win most of your games
Nurse should be nerfed, all the excuses are appliable only against 4 man swf, the 6% of the playerbase, and even this playerbase we can divide by half, because most of the players are casuals, and matchmaking is bad so they can get to high ranks somehow, also yes, best 4 man comp squad (0.001% of playerbase) can win best nurse, but you are talking about people that training 4+ hrs a day only how to play against nurse, you can't expect it from every player
P. S. I don't wanna insult anyone, the point of this thread to motivate you to analyze your games, check your winrate, check your opponents profiles, and you will be surprised.
Also, it took too long to write this all, if I forgot anything, leave a comment, I will try to answer
Comments
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even shorter tl:dr
not all survivors are in a swf
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What?
I'm completely with you on "most survivors aren't SWF and even those that are aren't surviving significantly more" but...
You post actual evidence that Nurse has the lowest kill rate (49.25%), then you come up with a completely unfounded conclusion of "Nurse players win 90% of their games because they camp and tunnel" based on the anecdotal evidence / tiny sample size of "Otz did it".
Then there's this:
"Regardless, that's your average experience of playing killer, but for some reason a lot of players don't wanna accept it and only remember bad games."
You're calling Otzdarva's no perk kill streak the "average experience of playing killer", and use this to accuse "a lot" of killers of expressing confirmation bias, and entirely without irony fail to recognise your own confirmation bias. Maybe you are only remembering the bad games where you got camped and tunnelled?
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Cool. Now let us see our MMR, know if there is even an SWF in a lobby (let alone how many,) and make maps more balanced instead of being skewed in one direction or the other so that all this data can be helpful.
I get the point of a lot of this data, but the absurd number of factors in this game paired with half of them having zero confirmation method makes people always have to assume the worst and hope for the best. You never know if you're going against 4 solos of even skill, 3 good survivors with their one friend who is awful at the game and doesnt belong in the same MMR, sweat squads, chill streamers looking at chat, etc. The only way to find out is if you either roll or get rolled, and by then its too late to change your playstyle.
Honestly even the most comprehensive and well thought out data analysis of this game still always has a large amount of missing variables. Things as simple as map rng or ragequits can make more of a difference than anything.
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I'm a solo queue casual. I escape against Nurse a lot. Solo queue casuals aren't going against these super Nurses you describe; we're up against low and mid tier Nurses. If we end up against high tier Nurses that's a matchmaking issue and any high tier Killer would wreck us anyway. Sorry, your logic is flawed.
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I mentioned official killrate and said thats it far from true, because its across all players, and any experienced player understand that, or you wanna say cannibal second best killer?
Idk why you took "otz did it" Thats have nothing to so with what i tried to explain, every nurse main ive watched have around 100% wr, i took rapidmain as example, not otz.
Again otz, i meant average killer experience not the 30s afk games, i meant that most of killrr games you are winning, i mentioned that somewhere in thread.
Hope this clarifies
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Can you proove it? I can send you even more streamers that win every game as nurse, even against experienced players.
Anyway, low tier nurses are newbies, they are dragging down her killrate, mid tier are questionable, haven't seen them in a while, however, thats not my point, my point was that most of the (mainly solo, but even some swf) good players cant compete good nurse, because how op she is
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So basically you intentionally ignored actual evidence, and decide to say "it's just wrong, actually nurse is strongest despite having lowest kill rate"?
I mean, if you gonna say "it's wrong, just ignore it" what's the point of showing data.
And yeah, like, every killer main streamer has like 80% kill rates or so, doesn't mean majority have it.
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Not really getting your point, my point was that regardless of any rng and any size of swf, nurse is able to win almost every game
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So your claim is that high MMR survivors are made up of solo queue casuals instead of SWFs? Something seems quite wrong with your assumption.
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Yes, i ignored actual evidence because if we will base strenght of killrt on this data, the bubba will be strongest killer, i explained why.
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No, i claim that high mmr survivors are not always swf, because if you were high mmr killer and only swf could reach high mmr, then your queue time would last ages.
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Whos "we"?
Your experience doesnt Match the others
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"Here's some evidence that shows SWF isnt real because of 2 experiments done by streamers with thousands of hours in the game with a sample size of 90ish games"
"Please use this BHVR data to believe my point, also ignore the data that directly contradicts my point"
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I was already laughing at the flawed logic you used from the very first sentence but I completely stopped reading when I saw you cite Otz' AFK/Perkless experiment as some sort of evidence when the man himself specifically said not to use the experiment to "prove" or justify anything
Just another "Nurse is OP, I don't know why but she is and I have no valid arguments to make" thread. Should they change the range or recharge addons? Sure but she's still a fair killer that's just the most recent victim of the "Nerf whatever gives me the hardest time" mentality. I'm 100% positive that the bulk of people complaining about current Nurse never played against the original Nurse before or even if they have just aren't very good against her. You don't need to be a .00001% comp player to beat the vast majority of Nurses you come across
The irony of saying "Nurse should be nerfed, all the excuses are appliable only against 4 man swf, the 6% of the playerbase, and even this playerbase we can divide by half, because most of the players are casuals, and matchmaking is bad so they can get to high ranks somehow, also yes, best 4 man comp squad (0.001% of playerbase) can win best nurse, but you are talking about people that training 4+ hrs a day only how to play against nurse, you can't expect it from every player"
While basing your entire logic on Nurse around the small % of players that are gods with her. If anybody is making excuses here, its clear who it is
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A better assumption would probably be that the coordination and information advantages of being a SWF allows them to hit high MMR more and there are more SWFs in high MMR than solos.
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...and he is?
Doesn't even matter if against swf or solo que, he can almost guarantee 2k in pretty much any matches... losing as bubba is nigh impossible.
And on top of it, he can easily achieve 3-4k if survivors make a mistake, he IS strongest killer if we think about kill rate.
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Wait, you really think bubba is stronger than nurse? Am I getting you right?
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We refers to solo queue casuals who have taken the time to learn Nurse's game mechanics and how she plays in practice so that it's easier to avoid Nurse. If you're facing Nurses you can't beat that means either other survivors at your MMR have beaten Nurse but you can't (which is a not every player is as good against each Killer issue) or the Nurse match up is a matchmaking error.
Neither of those implies a problem with Nurse.
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Across all players is right, and that's what counts, because all players are playing this game.
You don't balance around the top 0.1%.
And yes Bubba having the 2nd highest kill rate makes complete sense, they specialise is camping and practically guarantee at least a 2K.
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there's a functional cap on MMR. You can get more than the highest MMR used for matchmaking, so thats not really accurate.
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Even if we will take that there are more swf than solo, does it mean its impossible to win as killer? How does otz (and others) had such high killrate in his challenge? How does a lot of content creators have overall high winrate?
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Yes, thats my whole point, this is average, across all ranks, thats ehy i want to see nurse killrate at high mmr but i can only assume
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...because variables can be the difference between making a match possible or impossible when skill is not considered on either side.
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'Usain Bolt can run fast. I should be able to run fast too.' Is that your argument? I'm not as good as Otz and neither is the vast majority of the playerbase. It's a mistake to assume that killer main streamers represent the player base.
Besides, as I mentioned above, if you can't beat a Nurse that just means the match making was flawed (too much of an MMR difference) or that the Nurse player you faced has been beaten by other survivors at your MMR but you, for whatever reason, had more of a struggle against that Nurse. If not, the Nurse would be a higher MMR.
That's fine. Just because Player A beat Player B who beat Player C that does not mean that Player A would automatically beat Player C. People have different playstyles. What it doesn't mean is that Nurse should be nerfed because you have a harder time against Nurse.
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This doesn't make sense, if i beat, i good, if not, i bad, what about if i am only one that managed to escape, maybe even hiding while game? Am i better?
What about if i get farmed, tunneled, being left or chased for 5 gens while 3 teammates escape, am i worse?
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I'm convinced this is bait. Not for the Nurse lovers but for the Haters who want to latch on to something. This is just so extra and backwards.
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If the Nurse is consistently getting 3 or 4K at your MMR they will go up to a higher MMR. If not, then some other survivors were able to escape against that Nurse but you couldn't.
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What about nurse mains that i mentioned? Do you think they wont be at top mmr while winning 90% of the games?
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Party size stats are from 2020 ? Try again when we have more actual stats, and MMR related ones.
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MMR actually increased the difference between solo queue and SWF. There was a dev update saying a 4 man SWF had 15% higher survival rate than solos. Cant remember if that was across the board or at high MMR.
As a result I imagine even if the distribution of players in SWFs vs solos hasn't changed high MMR will inevitably have a higher likely hood of facing SWFs because higher escape rate = higher MMR = more SWFs.
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And variables were the same across every participant of this challenge?
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If they're at top MMR then they are facing top MMR survivors. I'm sure Team Oracle, Ayrun at 96 escapes in a row, and WimaTV at 350 escapes in a row actually faced some Nurses. They did it. There will always be outliers with higher escape or kill rates than the average. In any event, you're not at top MMR and I'm not at top MMR so neither of us can say what happens at top MMR.
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Im not basing my logic on nurse around small percentage,if i were at some point then it was typo, im basing my logic around good nurses, they are not gods, but they are not 00.1 percent, its normal practice for a lot of game to nerf character because he is op only at high rank
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2 year old stats just doesn't really cut it at the moment
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2 experiments? What?
What data contradicts my point?
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You should base it around good survivors then.
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I hardly doubt percentage of swf changed across these years
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wow so much effort
imagine if these people used 50% of the time they waste by asking for Nurse nerfs actually learning to play her/against her where would we be
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I did, i took for example rapidmain's streak, he clearly played against good survivors and he is good but not god nurse, he managed to win 25 times in a row
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Just git gud lmao
But seriously, lets imagine situation where i am literally god dbd player, and as soon as nurse will realize it, she will leave me
So there s the question, what should i do about my temmates?
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And also, i spent whole day 1v1 ing nurse, this is straight up impossible without iw and dh
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Why are you taking killer streak instead of escape streak though.
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Because this is nurse winstreak and this is nurse thread
Also i didn't watch escape streak, but if you really wanna escape, in worst case you just have to hide and wait untill hatch spawn or gates are powered, i assume he took wake up, clairvoyance or left behind, maybe selfcare, my point is that escaping way easier than 4k, if you want to escape no matter what
I dont wanna escape every game, i wanna have fun games, not nurse games
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Anythings possible thats why fresh statistics matter
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You are reaching a bit with this one not going to lie.
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You are basically only seeing it from one side, I doubt it proves anything.
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I'm going to blow your minds:
Extremely good players will win almost every single game. Why? Because they are outright better than what MMR can consistently match them with. There is not enough players of their level in the first place consistently on in the same region in the needed 1:4 ratio.
There is a reason good killer players have huge winstreaks on literally every killer in this game. There is a reason good survivor players have huge escape streaks. Hint: It's not about balance.
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Nope, I don't really care about that.
I just think Nurse is fun to go against. Always has been.
But that is just me.
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I was here when those SWF stats were released.
Those are nearly 3 years old and completely unusable.
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Simple you can't always expect to save every teammate and get a 4 man escape every match, if that is the case and everyone was getting a 4 man escape then the stats would show that the killer is to weak and needs a buff.
if your a god dbd player and the killer drops you to chase someone else that's the right call for the killer, why spend i.e 4 min trying to down you when they can down another survivor in 30 sec
So to answer your question sometimes you need to leave a teammate behind it might suck but its the right call to make.
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