If you are able to keep your DS till endgame you should be able to use It... It's a strategy!
There are so many times when I get downed during endgame and still have my DS and it makes the games more Intense and fun. I don't see why It should be disabled during endgame. The devs took out a lot of the survivor fun with this patch and it has been really boring playing. Getting off the hook In EGC Is hard enough because of how much pressure is on the survIvors to save and the killer to camp them out so why take away the most fun and rewarding aspect of DS... It has counter-play for the killer and the survivors have to be able to keep it and know when to use it. Endgame has been really boring without this as a strategy.
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So basically punish killers for NOT tunneling? Thats a terrible idea
It would be much better idea to keep it disabled when the exit gates are powered, but revert the stun back to 5 seconds or make it repeatedly usable
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No.
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I kinda see the problem, before ds was really a strong tool.
problem is that strong survivor and swf might get insane value out of it while its undervaluable for newbies.
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Sure if you want to make all the survivors unkillable in endgame and screw over any killers who played "nice"
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Free Escapes are a strategy?
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I know they drew first blood but It's over Johnny!
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No, neither are free kills though.
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You got 5 gens done. That’s a rare occasion for my games.
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There are no free kills, just like there are no more free Escapes
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Tunneling and camping right is a free kill.
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If you and your team are bad, in that case, yes
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If the killer was bad, old DS was also a free escape.
See, we both can play the "you're bad" game.
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I agree
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Old DS was only counterable if the Killer tunneled, at which point they would've been called bad, but if they lost to a DS during the EGC, they were bad once again, so technically, you're right.
But in all honesty, yeah, tunneling and camping are potent only if your team is bad, they only work if the team has 1 or multiple weak-links
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DS was totally fine. It's just like how OTR deactivates at endgame. Why run a perk that you can't use when the game is at it's peak?
Basically Devs think survivors should just be happy to get to endgame then we should all collectively hook ourselves. DS was never a "free escape". I have had so many Killers pre-patch tunnel me through old Borrowed Time, and through Decisive Strike. If they could do that, they could do it at end game. And they often did.
The only time it would grant an escape is if the person was hooked close to an exit gate, and IF a team mate actually unhooked you ( in Solo Q LOL. They usually run out and save themselves), and if that survivor also runs BT (rare). Which doesn't happen a lot.
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I agree
if you did not use ds up until that point you played with 3 perks all match (which is what people use to defend noed), DS is a one time use powerful perk and if it grants you an escape it is what it is, it's actually killer's fault they were in that situarion to begin with.
This change is actually the only truly bs change from this patch, it's like here let's go extra way to help bad killers for not being able to get kills before the gens popped
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If DS only activated in EGC then sure it can be reverted back to its strength. DS still provides value throughout the entire trial potentially. No matter what NOED cannot be used early or used at all outside of EGC. That's not true for DS.
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So the killer doesn't tunnel and they get rewarded with a survivor getting a free escape
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I mean, with the stun and the killer had no choice but to use the hook right beside the exit gate, yes it was a free escape when you got off the hook
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No. DS should not work at endgame because you get a guarantee escape l which results in an unfair/unwinnable scenario that killers had to go through for YEARS.
You may think it's unfair that you cant use the perk during endgame but it's unfair to the killer as well. How many times have you escaped because of a DS stun at endgame before the patch?
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DS got nerfed because survivors turned it into a weapon in EGC. If you got unhooked with it up you would purposefully get into the killers face to get him to hit you because you were the survivor with the best odds of getting out. If they down you they either slugsl you for 60 seconds(more than enough time to crawl to a gate) or they pick you up and get ds'd.
It was way too strong and absolutely silly that after getting saved the survivor who just got unhooked was being the most aggressive bodyblocker on the time between BT + DS to protect other teammates.
DS exists as anti tunnel and the survivor forcing the killer to hit him and not just focusing on getting out means you aren't getting tunneled/forcing the killer to tunnel you.
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Okay you get your DS for endgame but shut the hell up when killer decide to force it before EGC aka tunnel.
Either let killer play friendly and spread the hooks and let them have a chance at late game kills against 3+ people or stop insulting them when they have to counter it.
Survivor are supposed to work together and a team of good survivor even solo can bodyblock most killer for each other and reach the open exit when it's even half across the map.
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All of you guys are either biased killer mains or don’t actually realize what “deactivated in endgame” means. It doesn’t just mean deactivated when you’re on hook and the exit gates are 99’d/opened and you get unhooked and are running to the gate. “Deactivated in endgame” means AS SOON as the last generator is done. Ever since this patch I used OTR and I actually stopped using it days after the update because some games i wouldn’t need it to activate because a killer didn’t tunnel but then there was some games where I literally looped the killer for the last 4 gens and ended up dying and being hooked right before the last gen was completed. At this point, the exit gates weren’t even touched yet because it was right after the gen was completed and I was unhooked and tunneled and put right back on hook. Even if I had DS or OTR activated, I would’ve still had to loop the killer after getting hit for a little bit in order to survive long enough for the exit gates to be worked on and opened, or I would’ve had to lose the killer. It’s not a “free escape” at all. That’s actually what’s called a “free kill” for the killer. It should not deactivate right when the last gen is popped. It’s not a free escape at that time and my perks shouldn’t just deactivate for a pity kill.
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What is the counterplay? You did not mention it in your post. Go ahead, share with the class.
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If you looped the Killer for 4 Generators, and then got downed, your team would've had enough to get the last Generator done and get both Exit Gates 99'd. If you still died, it was a missplay on your team's part
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That is a fair call but maybe a compromise would be as soon as the exit gates have been opened it deactivates you still only have the 3 second stun on a killer but it could give you that chance to run to the gate and your team to body block take a hit for you and escape.
As for the others going on about NOED its a end game perk something that to this day bewilders me at the sillyness of the argument it is not a crutch unlike most survivor perks that can be used all game but only activates on the exit gates being powered and even now it starts to literally dance for you the location for it to cleanse it. God knows why nobody complains about blood warden that is probably even worse than NOED if you get it right nobody escapes your all dead to the entity killing you.....
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people are saying it was a “free escape” pre update. Now it is a “free kill”. The devs changed because they didn’t want a free escape, now it’s a free kill. What did that change? How about just not deactivate my perks. Or deactivate DS when the gates are opened. That has killer counterplay for the killer and isn’t just a free kill nor a free escape for the survivor.
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I would be down with it if exit gate progress regressed, but honestly, still, I would take that over old DS. As you said, it would be more of a coin flip as opposed to "free." Fair enough.
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i don’t think you actually understood. I looped the killer for 3 gens (the 1st was already done so now 4 are finished). I get downed and hooked and 10 seconds later the gen gets finished, I get unhooked right after the gen gets finished. And get chased and tunneled. There was not enough time for the exit gates to be opened, not had anybody even been working on them yet. And even if there was enough time but they still didn’t work on them then that’s still not a “free escape” for me so therefore my perk shouldn’t be deactivated. It’s not a “missplay” on my team but nice try.
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Yes, your team should've 99'd the Exit Gates before coming to get you, that is a missplay
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Buddy that wouldn’t have changed anything because my perks would still be deactivated if they 99’d the gates. You obviously aren’t understanding the convo. This is about the fact that once the last generators are completed it is not a “free escape”. This has nothing to do with misplays and even your “missplay” scenario wouldn’t work because my perks are still deactivated lmfao so idk what you’re talking about.
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Tunnelling and Camping don't exist at endgame, it's anything goes at that point, the killer has no secondary objectives.
Therefore an anti-tunnel perk is not necessary.
A survivor downed within range of an exit gate was literally invulnerable with DS at endgame. Can't pick them up because they DS and escape, can't slug because they crawl and escape. This guarantees an escape for a survivor who decided to bring a particular perk, over another survivor who didn't.
I do think that DS should be back to 5s stun though, and it could even be activated twice for each hook state, in exchange for not working during endgame.
You are not entitled to an escape just because you "ran the killer for 3 gens". You haven't won until you're out that exit. If all the gens are done, then the killer has nothing else to do other than secure his kill. If anything they've earned the kill given that they sacrificed 3 gens to get it. You misplayed by getting hit and downed, you could have evaded the hit, used a vault or a pallet, a 360 juke, etc. You managed it for 3 gens, why couldn't you manage it for another 20 seconds until a gate was opened?
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Mate, this isn't a 1v1. It's a 1v4. Your team could, now hear me out, what I'm about to tell you is something only you'll understand once you've invested at least 20 hours into the game, take hits for you. If you and your team play this game like a team game, like it's supposed to be played, you wouldn't have this problem, but you want to have your free escape that doesn't require your teammates
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By this logic, the killer didn’t kill anybody so he isn’t “entitled to a free kill” either so why do they get the pity kill? Your logic is flawed and I can tell you only have one way of thinking. It seems like you’re the entitled one. And obviously you didn’t read my previous messages fully because then you wouldn’t have said what you just wrote lmfao. Nice lmfao
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Both sides shouldn't be rewarded for sucking at their job....
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Yeah if NOED and No Way Out are a thing then DS and OTR should also activate at the endgame.
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The killer hit you twice, put you into the dying state, put you on a hook. That's all that is required to 'earn' a kill.
If the killer then again downs you during end game, that is all that is required to 'earn' the kill, and an individuals perks should not prevent that, only other survivors intervention should be able to prevent that, via flashlight saves, bodyblocking, etc.
This is an asymmetrical game, it's 1v4. Killer is the power role, Survivors are the numbers role. You 'win' via team work, not by being 'better than the killer', because you're not, you never will be, you're not supposed to be.
As the power role, killer is supposed to be the dominating force in a 1v1 scenario. They absolutely have and must have the power to secure a kill in that situation. That's why they have bloodlust (guarantees a chase ends eventually) and why camping and tunnelling will always be valid tactics. These are countered via teamwork, by other survivors aiding you, taking aggro, taking hits, doing objectives in your place, etc.
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i can’t believe I’m still explaining this to you. What you don’t understand is that this isn’t about “should’ve done this or should’ve done that” in that situation my perks were deactivated and it was not a “free escape”. So the people saying “it gives free escapes” are wrong because once the last gen is done it’s not a free escape until a door is opened. I know you have one way of thinking but if you look at the broad picture you would understand it
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You haven’t earned the kill until that player is no longer in the game. That is why there is a prompt to “unhook survivor” when you go near that person that’s hook. Idk what you’re going on about but you’re totally going on some tangent about something totally unrelated to what this topic is about lmfao weird
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Survivors also have endgame perks.
Adrenaline, Hope, Left Behind, No One Left behind.
BT also works fine at endgame, use that.
The point is these all have counters, just as NOED and No Way Out do as well. None of these are guaranteed wins for one side or the other.
DS at an exit gate had NO counter.
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Exactly. In order to get unhooked, you need another survivor to come rescue you. Teamwork.
The killer has the opportunity to secure their kill, and by downing a survivor they have secured the opportunity to hook them, and by hooking them they have the opportunity to camp them and secure the kill.
When you get unhooked you have the opportunity to escape. Your team mates have the opportunity to protect you.
Opportunity. DS offered NO opportunity, it was uncounterable at endgame.
You seem unable to understand what the killer role actually is, you should probably play it some time.
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Survivor perks should never simply disable because of completing the objective or doing anything. That is punishment for doing the objective. Bad game design, that is all I have to say.
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Oh god more people who didn’t read the whole discussion before talking. Look I know it takes a couple seconds to read the whole discussion but please go and do that before you spew more irrelevant nonsense at me
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that is stronger than old ds. I already see survivors using dead hard-decisive strike-off the record when I'm playing blight. Its not on every survivor yet but taking 2 ds, 2 off the record and dealing with dead hard. big oof for killer. not losing to it yet, but taking 2 decisive strikes is definitely going to hurt.
the meta build i am starting to see on survivor is DS+DH+OTR+Prove thyself.... why did start using that prove thyself perk.... ugh i liked it better when people weren't using that one.
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I've read everything, you're just refusing to acknowledge other opinions and where your stance has faults. This is like talking to a brick wall. Can't reason with the unreasonable.
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If you’re going to join in on a conversation please go and read the whole conversation between 2 people before you comment. It’s really not that hard. I already went over this
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There seems to be a language barrier
No one is talking about current DS being a free escape (because it isn't), people were talking about old DS being a free escape, which it was
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As much as free second and third hookstates are.
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Refusing to acknowledge other opinions?? Where?? I acknowledge everything and I have a better way to make both sides happy. All you have done is join mid way on a conversation and talk about some irrelevant things so what have you “acknowledged”? Do you listen to yourself? Lmao can’t reason with people who don’t actually read whole conversations before talking.
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Again, camping is counterable, and only works if the team has 1 or more weak-links
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