Is DBDs toxicity beyond repair?
Comments
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Depends on what you mean. If about the community in general, take community X. Any, you pick, won't be prettier than this one, for sure2
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A large amount of toxicity is from the game being unbalanced. There will always be toxicity, but it would reduce drastically if we had more balance.
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Yes0
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No. The devs and mods just need to start punishing toxic behavior instead of letting a few things slide. They can ease restrictions after the toxic portion of the playerbase has died off, like cutting off blood vessels to a tumor.
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@Blueberry said:
A large amount of toxicity is from the game being unbalanced. There will always be toxicity, but it would reduce drastically if we had more balance.Toxicity has always, even in the first beta and release, come primarily from Survivors.
True infinites were exploited to hell and beyond for the sake of them being douches.
Hostage taking situations.. post-game chat toxicity..It has always boiled down to survivors surviving 'too well'. When they're too safe, they become cocky.
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@se05239 said:
@Blueberry said:
A large amount of toxicity is from the game being unbalanced. There will always be toxicity, but it would reduce drastically if we had more balance.Toxicity has always, even in the first beta and release, come primarily from Survivors.
True infinites were exploited to hell and beyond for the sake of them being douches.
Hostage taking situations.. post-game chat toxicity..It has always boiled down to survivors surviving 'too well'. When they're too safe, they become cocky.
Don't say that too loudly, otherwise people might call you biased...
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@Orion said:
@se05239 said:
@Blueberry said:
A large amount of toxicity is from the game being unbalanced. There will always be toxicity, but it would reduce drastically if we had more balance.Toxicity has always, even in the first beta and release, come primarily from Survivors.
True infinites were exploited to hell and beyond for the sake of them being douches.
Hostage taking situations.. post-game chat toxicity..It has always boiled down to survivors surviving 'too well'. When they're too safe, they become cocky.
Don't say that too loudly, otherwise people might call you biased...
I ain't afraid to speak my mind and the actual truth.
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@se05239 said:
@Orion said:
@se05239 said:
@Blueberry said:
A large amount of toxicity is from the game being unbalanced. There will always be toxicity, but it would reduce drastically if we had more balance.Toxicity has always, even in the first beta and release, come primarily from Survivors.
True infinites were exploited to hell and beyond for the sake of them being douches.
Hostage taking situations.. post-game chat toxicity..It has always boiled down to survivors surviving 'too well'. When they're too safe, they become cocky.
Don't say that too loudly, otherwise people might call you biased...
I ain't afraid to speak my mind and the actual truth.
It was a joke. Anyone who's been here from the start knows the truth.
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@se05239 said:
@Blueberry said:
A large amount of toxicity is from the game being unbalanced. There will always be toxicity, but it would reduce drastically if we had more balance.Toxicity has always, even in the first beta and release, come primarily from Survivors.
True infinites were exploited to hell and beyond for the sake of them being douches.
Hostage taking situations.. post-game chat toxicity..It has always boiled down to survivors surviving 'too well'. When they're too safe, they become cocky.
Exactly lol
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Dbd community is like a mixture of very toxic and very unskilled players, with a bunch of competent players for seasoning.
This combination is awesome and awful at the same time. I don't think it will ever change and tbh, I'm not even sure if I want it to change.
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Didn't take long for the victimized killer parade to arrive.
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@brokedownpalace said:
Didn't take long for the victimized killer parade to arrive.Some people know DbD's history, others don't.
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No.
If they were to take VERY drastic and questionable measures, it could be reduced at least.1 -
at this point I'm stirring the pot, unfortunately, but how ironic is it that in a post about toxicity it takes 5 posts for someone to start throwing blame.
DBD was definitely survivor sided for a long time, but killers are probably in the best place they've ever been in (aside from freddy and legion) and yet the blame is still being thrown on survivors.
someone pointed out on a separate post about how they could look at the profile of a toxic survivor and see comments about them playing as a toxic killer too.
seems to me it's not really one side or the other, but rather it's predominately a set of toxic players who play both sides just as scummy. there are exceptions, of course, but that makes the most sense to me.3 -
@Avariku said:
seems to me it's not really one side or the other, but rather it's predominately a set of toxic players who play both sides just as scummy. there are exceptions, of course, but that makes the most sense to me.Most Survivor consider camping and tunneling toxic. As a Survivor, I don't consider that toxic, it's no different than looping or gen rushing. I've not yet to see a Killer that complained on my profile "-rep ######### looper / gen rusher", not once. I have more hours in Survivor than Killer yet my profile to date has ~500 comments, most of them are insults from survivors because I killed them.
You can try to defend the behaviour of the Survivors all you want, every experienced player (regardless if it's a Survivor or a Killer) will tell you that the real toxicity (insults, harassment) happens WAY more often on the Survivors side. Camping, tunneling, slugging - while they're a bit scummy and annoying to deal with, are NOT toxic unless you consider looping and gen rushing toxic aswell.
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@PiiFree said:
@Avariku said:
seems to me it's not really one side or the other, but rather it's predominately a set of toxic players who play both sides just as scummy. there are exceptions, of course, but that makes the most sense to me.Most Survivor consider camping and tunneling toxic. As a Survivor, I don't consider that topic, it's no different than looping or gen rushing. I've not yet to see a Killer that complained on my profile "-rep ######### looper / gen rusher", not once. I have more hours in Survivor than Killer yet my profile to date has ~500 comments, most of them are insults from survivors because I killed them.
You can try to defend the behaviour of the Survivors all you want, every experienced player (regardless if it's a Survivor or a Killer) will tell you that the real toxicity (insults, harassment) happens WAY more often on the Survivors side. Camping, tunneling, slugging - while they're a bit scummy and annoying to deal with, are NOT toxic unless you consider looping and gen rushing toxic aswell.
^This. Don't fall under the spell of the "both sides do it" fallacy. Yes, one side really can be worse than the other, and one side often is worse than the other. Survivors are overwhelmingly and disproportionately more toxic than Killers, and have been since the game was first released. This is not about blame, it's about facing the facts.
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where exactly did I defend survivor behavior?
I actually thought I was pretty clear that there's toxic players on both sides of the field.
and one major reason that killers get more negative comments than survivors do is because there are four survivors and only one killer. This sets up a ratio that obviously contributes to that cumulative comment amount AND its a lot easier to call a killer out for bad behavior than survivor since there's four of them, it's easier to forget which name was the one that looped or which of the four (if not all four) that genrushed.
and please don't start the camping/genrush argument, you and I won't see eye to eye on it and will only result in derailing the conversation.
regardless of all of that, throwing around blame is the least likely way to have a constructive conversation about toxicity as a whole.2 -
@Avariku said:
where exactly did I defend survivor behavior?
I actually thought I was pretty clear that there's toxic players on both sides of the field.and one major reason that killers get more negative comments than survivors do is because there are four survivors and only one killer. This sets up a ratio that obviously contributes to that cumulative comment amount AND its a lot easier to call a killer out for bad behavior than survivor since there's four of them, it's easier to forget which name was the one that looped or which of the four (if not all four) that genrushed.
and please don't start the camping/genrush argument, you and I won't see eye to eye on it and will only result in derailing the conversation.
regardless of all of that, throwing around blame is the least likely way to have a constructive conversation about toxicity as a whole.
The toxicity is not proportionate to the number of Survivors.
This is not about blame; the facts are the facts. Ignoring the facts won't make the problem go away.
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Looks at my username Hey! I am NOT beyond repair!
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There is no toxicity in DBD, only overly sensitive players.
@Avariku said:
at this point I'm stirring the pot, unfortunately, but how ironic is it that in a post about toxicity it takes 5 posts for someone to start throwing blame.DBD was definitely survivor sided for a long time, but killers are probably in the best place they've ever been in (aside from freddy and legion) and yet the blame is still being thrown on survivors.
someone pointed out on a separate post about how they could look at the profile of a toxic survivor and see comments about them playing as a toxic killer too.
seems to me it's not really one side or the other, but rather it's predominately a set of toxic players who play both sides just as scummy. there are exceptions, of course, but that makes the most sense to me.
Very accurate summary.
I'd add this however: anyone with more than 100-200 hours still unable to shrug off "toxic" comments should consider quitting.
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It would already be a good start if Survivors would aknowledge that it's usually their own fellas that spread toxicity. I know both sides can be toxic but after more than 1500 hours of playtime it's obvious to me that the real toxicity (again, insulting and harassing other players, not stuff like looping or tunneling) is MAINLY coming from Survivors. Not exclusively, but mainly. And the ratio is FAR from 4:1.
My logical conclusion is; to reduce the amount of toxicity, it would be nice if survivors could stop being toxic even if they get camped, tunneled, slugged or whatever. Just move on, it's that simple on paper but pretty much impossible to achieve in reality.
You can only stop people from being toxic if you actively start to punish them with temp bans ect. It worked in Dota 2 so I suppose it would work in DbD aswell.
If 90% of the toxicity is coming from Survivors (a wild guess), it's also to 90% in their responsibility to give it an end.
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I really wish they'd remove post game chat, as the main problem, Human Egos, are not patchable.
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@George_Soros said:
There is no toxicity in DBD, only overly sensitive players."I hope you get cancer and die."
"#########."Yup, that's not toxicity; people are just being overly sensitive.
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Its an online PVP game, people will always get upset and some simply cant handle losing even if it is their fault, you just have to see some other games forums to see how toxic people can be, its not a DBD thing its a mentality, DBD can be worse in some cases due to the 4v1 and if you come accross an SWF they can be worse due to them joining in to back their friend up.
How to help it is what the devs should be looking at, for starters remove names from the lobbies and either have it chose one at random when booting up or you create one on the DBD servers which is seperate from Steam, next remove the ability to look at anyone's profile, the devs can have it as a back end and they can still see it for reporting etc, end game screen have it so you can completely remove chat from inside the options so you dont have to do it each time you load up.
Yes there are other ways to find it via Steam but not everyone knows how to do it and I would bet it would cut the toxicity down majorly.
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Unfortunately toxicity is and always will be unrepairable. No matter which game we play people will always be toxic to each other. Now while it comes more from the survivor side (From all my playtime) I've come across some killers also messaging me however that has always been more rare. Anyway the only way to fix this is for the Devs and Moderators to take more action against them. Imagine if one day someone with suicidal thoughts gets told by someone to kill themselves and that nobody loves them and they go ahead and do it. Yeah, if that happened after a match of this game then people would be all over it and it would give us an even worse rep. We have to do something about toxicity too, report toxic chats and toxic players so the devs will notice. While it will never truly go away we have to greatly prevent it.
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I mean it's pretty obvious that if survivors are more likely to be toxic it's because there's more of them and groupthink is a thing. Also killers get to hit, down, sacrifice and mori survivors. Those actions are MUCH more satisfying than simply walking through an exit gate. So what do some survivors do? What players in literally every game do, find ways to taunt and rub their victory in their opposition's face.
I understand it can be frustrating to deal with and obviously some messages sent between players cross the line. But as others have said if you've put hundreds of hours into this game and your feelings are STILL affected by insults from children and immature adults, then maybe you should play a nicer game. Or, you know, make your communication settings private/don't look at chat.
It's silly at this point that the devs haven't put in more options to filter messages or curb awful behavior, like holding the game hostage. But their main concern is making paid content. If there was a large outcry and sales dropped because players were truly upset, THEN they would do something.0 -
@OrionOrion said:@George_Soros said:
There is no toxicity in DBD, only overly sensitive players."I hope you get cancer and die."
"[BAD WORD]."Yup, that's not toxicity; people are just being overly sensitive.
I know that everyone is different and stuff, but personally there's no way i can be bothered by people like that.
If someone tells me to get cancer:
Do i know that person? No
Do i care about that person's opinion? No
Will i get cancer just because that person wished it? Certainly not.
Summary: my life hasn't changed a bit and i'm still fine, probably even better because salty people amuse me.
Yeah, i will report that behaviour because not everyone takes that stuff in the same way and because no one should talk like that, but would be nice as well to not get affected by this kind of people.1 -
@Vietfox said:
I know that everyone is different and stuff, but personally there's no way i can be bothered by people like that.
If someone tells me to get cancer:
Do i know that person? No
Do i care about that person's opinion? No
Will i get cancer just because that person wished it? Certainly not.
Summary: my life hasn't changed a bit and i'm still fine, probably even better because salty people amuse me.
Yeah, i will report that behaviour because not everyone takes that stuff in the same way and because no one should talk like that, but would be nice as well to not get affected by this kind of people.It's not about being bothered or not. That guy was claiming that "toxicity" just isn't a thing, which is blatantly not true. Toxic behavior exists, and pretending it doesn't won't help anyone. Like you, I simply report and move on, which is the best attitude, IMO.
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Only toxicity I get are from some killers
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@GT_Legend2 said:
dont see any signs of overall improvement yet, but I may just be waiting for the console bans to kick in.BHVR ironically cannot change how people on the internet act.
DBD isn't toxic, its players are.1 -
@Vietfox said:
Orion said:@George_Soros said:
There is no toxicity in DBD, only overly sensitive players.
"I hope you get cancer and die."
"[BAD WORD]."
Yup, that's not toxicity; people are just being overly sensitive.
@Orion
I know that everyone is different and stuff, but personally there's no way i can be bothered by people like that.
If someone tells me to get cancer:
Do i know that person? No
Do i care about that person's opinion? No
Will i get cancer just because that person wished it? Certainly not.
Summary: my life hasn't changed a bit and i'm still fine, probably even better because salty people amuse me.
Yeah, i will report that behaviour because not everyone takes that stuff in the same way and because no one should talk like that, but would be nice as well to not get affected by this kind of people.It's probably hard to imagine but how do you think you'd feel like if you for example had a loved one that died to cancer? Or your own kid? Or someone that you're close to is currently fighting against cancer?
Just saying, just because it doesn't affect you (or the person that insults someone) doesn't mean it won't affect others. Insulting and wishing people cancer is probably one of the most disgraceful thing you can do. If anyone deserves cancer, it's probably those people that wish cancer upon others.
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💯 beyond it!0
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@PiiFreePiiFree said:@Vietfox said:
Orion said:@George_Soros said:
There is no toxicity in DBD, only overly sensitive players.
"I hope you get cancer and die."
"[BAD WORD]."
Yup, that's not toxicity; people are just being overly sensitive.
@Orion
I know that everyone is different and stuff, but personally there's no way i can be bothered by people like that.
If someone tells me to get cancer:
Do i know that person? No
Do i care about that person's opinion? No
Will i get cancer just because that person wished it? Certainly not.
Summary: my life hasn't changed a bit and i'm still fine, probably even better because salty people amuse me.
Yeah, i will report that behaviour because not everyone takes that stuff in the same way and because no one should talk like that, but would be nice as well to not get affected by this kind of people.It's probably hard to imagine but how do you think you'd feel like if you for example had a loved one that died to cancer? Or your own kid? Or someone that you're close to is currently fighting against cancer?
Just saying, just because it doesn't affect you (or the person that insults someone) doesn't mean it won't affect others. Insulting and wishing people cancer is probably one of the most disgraceful thing you can do. If anyone deserves cancer, it's probably those people that wish cancer upon others.
That's why i said everyone is different.
Yeah, no one wants to meet people like that, but you won't get anything useful by argueing with them. Remeber that they are basically ignorants.
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I don't want to argue with them, I want them to get banned and I certainly don't want people to defend or trivialise such behaviour
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PiiFree and Vietfox yeah, you make good points. I'm very much used to say stuff to friends in RL like "cancer eat your guts out" or being told the same in the most friendly manner... I suppose it's partly a cultural thing. But I can see how this can hit hard if someone is unaccustomed to it. It's just... reporting or complaining about it feels so whiny. I know it's not but that's how it feels. I'm genuinely outraged too when #########'s thrown at newbies, but consider this: emotionally stable people will eventually get over it. The unstable ones, well, they can't be helped anyway.PiiFree said:@Vietfox said:
Orion said:@George_Soros said:
There is no toxicity in DBD, only overly sensitive players.
"I hope you get cancer and die."
"[BAD WORD]."
Yup, that's not toxicity; people are just being overly sensitive.
@Orion
I know that everyone is different and stuff, but personally there's no way i can be bothered by people like that.
If someone tells me to get cancer:
Do i know that person? No
Do i care about that person's opinion? No
Will i get cancer just because that person wished it? Certainly not.
Summary: my life hasn't changed a bit and i'm still fine, probably even better because salty people amuse me.
Yeah, i will report that behaviour because not everyone takes that stuff in the same way and because no one should talk like that, but would be nice as well to not get affected by this kind of people.It's probably hard to imagine but how do you think you'd feel like if you for example had a loved one that died to cancer? Or your own kid? Or someone that you're close to is currently fighting against cancer?
Just saying, just because it doesn't affect you (or the person that insults someone) doesn't mean it won't affect others. Insulting and wishing people cancer is probably one of the most disgraceful thing you can do. If anyone deserves cancer, it's probably those people that wish cancer upon others.
Sometimes I wish all games, online forums etc allowed only real name registrations. That would definitely put an end to 90% of garbage behaviour.3 -
Every community has toxic players. While it is true that the Devs can do a better job of punishing them. The best thing to do is ignore them. In a competitive game it is just going to happen. In game toxicity is always going to happen.
As far as these forums go. This is a pretty good community overall.
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@George_Soros said:
PiiFree and Vietfox yeah, you make good points. I'm very much used to say stuff to friends in RL like "cancer eat your guts out" or being told the same in the most friendly manner... I suppose it's partly a cultural thing. But I can see how this can hit hard if someone is unaccustomed to it. It's just... reporting or complaining about it feels so whiny. I know it's not but that's how it feels. I'm genuinely outraged too when #########'s thrown at newbies, but consider this: emotionally stable people will eventually get over it. The unstable ones, well, they can't be helped anyway.Sometimes I wish all games, online forums etc allowed only real name registrations. That would definitely put an end to 90% of garbage behaviour.
That's a difference. You do that with your friends because you know that they will take is as a joke. If one of your buddy had his girlfriend lost due to cancer you probably wouldn't make jokes about cancer anymore? That has nothing to do with being emotionally stable or not, no matter how stable you are, if people keep reminding you of that or make fun of it, it will hurt you mentally but eh, I know that in the gaming community people don't think that far.
It's normal behaviour these days which is exactly what triggers me. It's not normal to wish someone cancer, or to wish someone that their kids get raped but I see stuff like that on a regular basis in Dead By Daylight. I haven't seen that in 3k hours of Dota 2 because people actually get punished for that. In Dead By Daylight? No one gives a damn, which is kinda a sad thing.
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