The slowdown meta isn't as bad as we are making it out to be.
First off, I want to state that this is regarding purely the time it takes to repair generators and that I don’t think it is as broken or OP as people think it is, this has nothing to do about whether this is fun to play against or terrible solo queue teammates, which are a different story.
Secondly, I’ve seen a lot of people believe that slowdown perks stacking is ADDITIVE when it is MULTIPLICATIVE. So, a gen with Thanatophobia and Pentimento will take 164.8s rather than the 187.5 seconds I keep seeing people post. If slowdown perks were additive then theoretically you could get a negative repair speed. Ok now on to the actual topic :)
I’ve seen a lot of posts here talking about how it takes much longer to repair a generator now compared to last patch. This isn’t completely true. Let’s look at the feared 4 slowdown build I see people bring up a lot – Thanatophobia, Dying Light, Gift of Pain, and Pentimento.
At max stacks Thana gives 22% slowdown, Dying Light gives 33%, GoP gives 16%, and Pentimento gives 30%. Together, this would add up to a repair time of 292.8 seconds. Wow. That is a long ass time.
Except… that is literally impossible to ever reach. You cannot have max Thana and GoP active, as being healed activates GoP but deactivates Thana. Dying Light cannot have more than 6 stacks (18%) with max Thana as anymore would mean someone is dead and Thana only has 3 stacks. And unless someone has a hex, Pentimento should never activate.
So, the worst-case scenario would be YOU have GoP active but everyone else is injured – giving Thana 3 stacks – with 6 stacks of Dying Light (and you are not the obsession). This would equal 156.4 seconds. That is MUCH less than the previous number but still high. However, in this scenario, if the killer has everyone on death hook (to get 6 stacks of Dying Light) and you’re still needing to repair gens solo, you’ve probably lost regardless of this build. You could pair up with a teammate to reduce the time for this gen, but if you need to repair, say, 3 more gens… well then you would’ve probably lost without this build as it is nearly impossible to repair 3 gens with everyone on death hook.
Ok. But what if we used Plaything instead of Dying Light to activate Pentimento?
If we use the previous scenario of GoP, 3 Thana, and now Pentimento we get 183.3 seconds. That is a long time. But again, this is a very rare scenario. You are not always going to have GoP active, you are not always going to have 3 Thana, and Pentimento is a hex that can be destroyed. If you remember where your Plaything was then you can go and find Pentimento later. Or don’t cleanse Plaything until you know they can’t get 5 stacks.
The main thing about that build I see people complain about though is Legion. However, that build is TERRIBLE on Legion. Why? Because you shouldn’t be healing against Legion. And if you don’t heal, GoP will NEVER slow you down. But what about Plaything/Pentimento? Well Plaything makes you Oblivious, and Oblivious is terrible for Legion as they CANNOT SEE YOU with killer instinct because you aren’t technically inside their terror radius. So while you might have to play Oblivious for a bit, with one person affected by Plaything, Legion will never get his 5th stab down unless the survivors make a HUGE mistake, at which point you deserve to lose, sorry. But even if Legion does get Thana and Pentimento to activate, that would make gens take 164.8 seconds. While that looks long, you can still cleanse Pentimento and lower it back down to 115 seconds (Which is still boring as #########, don’t get me wrong).
But still, 115 and 164 seconds is still a long time. Much longer than it was last patch, right? Well not exactly. For example, a single use of Pain Res + DMS would make a gen go from 80 seconds to 137 seconds. That is more than max Thana AND more than 3 Thana + GoP (which is 128.3 seconds). And that only required you to down ONE survivor as opposed to hitting all 4 AND down one if you want GoP.
And that’s only Pain Res/DMS. Let’s not forget Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer. If the killer chased you off the gen for 1 minute, that’s another 30 seconds Ruin has added on. And the killer could do this MULTIPLE TIMES. And that assumes you get to go back to the generator. If you got hooked or lead the killer on a long chase, the gen was probably back to 0%. A gen regressing at 99% with Ruin would take ~160 seconds to repair if it reached 0 (of course this scenario almost happened, but neither do half the scenarios people are saying about this update).
And while those perks only affected 1 gen whereas Thana affects all gens, the killer still can’t pressure all those gens. So while it may take longer, if everyone is split up the killer cannot remove your progress as easily and another survivor can take over whereas last patch no one could take over and the gen progress was just gone. You had to start again. But now it stays and you or someone else can finish it later.
This was a long post so…
TL:DR – The current slowdown meta is boring but not as strong as everyone claims it to be. Yes slowdown perks should be adjusted (specifically Thana), but it is not impossible to beat nor do I think it is as strong as the previous meta. Some of the scenarios people are scared of going against are impossible or won’t be active for most of the trial. Thana is the only perk I think is problematic as GoP and Pentimento can be avoided, and Dying Light's slowdown is negligible for most of the game. It feels worse than the previous patch because we are actually seeing the slowdown and experiencing it slowly throughout the game rather than having it all occur at once like in the last patch.
Comments
-
What you can achieve with slow-down perks is undeniably greater than the previous patch. And the greatest slowdown of all is removing a player from the match. So, your post where you're talking about purposefully leaving people alive to get bigger numbers is just wrong. You're not playing to get max stacks, you're playing to slow things down long enough to get a survivor killed. If you've managed to kill a survivor before 4 gens have been completed you should win. Especially if you've spread out hooks.
But honestly you could just use dead lock and camp someone to death and win that way too.
13 -
Tunnelling and camping definitely huge issues that should've been addressed years ago. I didn't really bring it up because it's always been an issue. But if the killer is hardcore tunnelling, then most of their slowdown perks won't actually activate. At most they'll get 1 or 2 Thana stacks, Dying Light will only have very little impact, assuming they aren't tunnelling the obsession, and GoP will only affect the tunnelled survivor who isn't even on gens. 1 stack of Thana will not make it impossible to repair more than 1 gen.
In your scenario though of someone dead at 4 gens with spread out hooks. Well, yes, you should lose. The killer is most likely not tunnelling or camping if they have spread out hook states, so unless you got massively outplayed and going down in like 5 seconds or someone gave up, you should have gotten more than one gen on at that point. And that scenario was still possible last patch. You could easily get a hook early, activate Pain Res and DMS, slow the game down massively and kill someone at 4 gens with multiple hooks. And don't forget an early down didn't deactivate Corrupt before, so you had even more early game slowdown.
I agree with you on Deadlock. But thankfully not many people are using it right now.
The biggest issue I feel is people just giving up. So many games I've played against full slowdown could've been an easy 3-4 escape but people just DC or suicide on first hook.
6 -
"The biggest issue I feel is people just giving up. So many games I've played against full slowdown could've been an easy 3-4 escape but people just DC or suicide on first hook."
^ this 100%.
The Tantrum DC meta is too strong.
16 -
Spreading out hooks is generally the right way to play. It doesn't mean just because you spread out hooks you should win. You should win because you played well. Right now things are balanced in such a way where killers do not need to play well to win. You can write an essay about how it's not that bad, but it obviously is a problem. You're just trying to justify the current balance as it heavily favors you.
Just so that we're clear here, I'm a killer main. You can pull up my statistics if you don't believe me.
1 -
I believe you, you don't need to pull up any stats. A survivor main would not have a Blight profile pic :p
I agree, spreading out hooks is the best way to play. However if the killer is spreading out hooks and you still only have 1 gen on when someone is dead, then yes, you did get outplayed. Unless you are playing against a Nurse or Blight that is, then I can understand this being an issue, but that is more of an issue with Nurse and Blight (mainly his add ons) being overtuned and not the gen times.
And no, I'm not justifying this because it favours me. I don't use any of the perks I mentioned in the above post. For future reference my build is the same it has always been - Corrupt, Discordance, Jolt, STBFL on Ghostface and Corrupt, I'm All Ears, STBFL, BBQ on Demo. Also Pain Res, BBQ, Shadowborn, Enduring on Oni but I haven't played him since I found out he is bugged and feel bad playing him.
0 -
I didn't know Oni was bugged, what happened?
0 -
I only care about fun, though. And honestly, it is far less fun. I do not really care about power, and neither does any survivor. If they did, they would zip it because survivor is STILL overtuned.
0 -
The changes aren't that insane on most killers it's just that solo queue teammates being generally inefficient isn't viable anymore without dh extending most chases a ton for free + hold w getting nerfed some. Two people going for a save while someone in chase means 0 people on gens and in the end they'll probably double heal the person off hook and only then travel to their gen to work on it after that. People following the killer with a flashlight too much? You will lose the game now there is less margin for error and having 0 information for solo queue can mean an instant loss unless you actually get 3 competent teammates who stick to gens whenever someone is being chased.
0 -
He drops too much blood orbs, so you pretty much always have your power active.
I agree it can be unfun (especially Legion, but Legion has always been a snooze fest) and I do believe Thana has always been a terribly designed perk and should be reworked.
I'm just trying to say that it isn't as oppressive as people believe but hopefully they do adjust this soon and we can see more variety in killer perks and less slowdown.
0 -
Correct. There was a streamer who took the time to compare all regression perks side by side. Long story short, survivors would have to leave the gens untouched for several minutes so those perks actually do something.
1 -
Yep. Incompetent teammates are my biggest complaint. It feels like MMR is broken right now as some games I can get insanely good teammates, and then the next game I get people who act like they have never played before. Maybe it was Dead Hard carrying them and boosting their MMR. If so, it should balance out soon. Maybe... probably not...
0 -
Just for reference Pebsie posted a video today showing the actual longest possible time to solo repair a gen assuming you hit every Good skill check and have no interruptions. It clocks in at almost exactly 4 minutes (the video is literally him repairing a gen for four minutes straight.)
Of course, like the original poster talks about, this is an idealized case that never happens. Also if you performed this experiment pre-patch the result would still be a ludicrously long time (not literally four minutes but I think about 3 1/2 minutes? I think the difference post patch is basically that 10 seconds extra base gen time multiplied by roughly x3.) So it’s not as if this particular combination of slowdown effects wasn’t already something with potential to make fixing a generator solo seemingly take forever, it’s just now the combination happens to be in vogue so it’s getting more attention.
5 -
Do you happen to have a link to this?
0 -
I didn't know they were bugged. What's the bug?
0 -
The hell it is. I've won games with old Ruin's regression alone.
0 -
There's a CoB & Overcharge bug rn?
Edit: unless you mean the Oni blood orb bug
0 -
Here you go:
2 -
Thanks for that!
So unless used together, they don't seem to knock off much time unless you let them regress for awhile.
I guess that's good for me to know as a Rookie Spirit user :D
1 -
No problem. Even the Overcharge + Call or Brine combo isn´t as oppresive as people claim. But people overreact when they hear 300% regression, without realizing, that normal regression is 25% the speed of a single survivor.
1 -
Yeah. Survivors needs (and supposed) to be play like a team. Coordinated teams still better than killers. Playing with braindead solo teammates doesnt mean killer is insanely strong. Most of people dont know this and says "killer op"
1 -
True, however, most players can't hit an Overcharge skillcheck. That's another 15% regression on top of whatever you already had.
If Overcharge and Call of Brine brings a gen from 99 down to 80, it's not a huge deal, you're totally right. However, the failed skillcheck will knock it down even more after that, which is a big deal AND it tells the Killer that someone touched the gen which allows them to apply another Overcharge to it.
I foresee Overcharge getting a cooldown soon.
0 -
Really? Maybe its just me, because i´m used to hitting great skill checks from the old ruin. But i don´t find the Overcharge skill checks particularly hard to hit. Only on Doctor they are... tough.
1 -
I have yet to see a single person in my games hit them reliably.
It's especially difficult when you aren't expecting them.
0 -
Some one should really make an Overcharge skill check simulator to give to those people.
0 -
We should just expect it to happen on every games, then.
0 -
Isn't it same as DS skill check? if then, there is already one.
0 -
The Jolt ones surprise me and i sometimes fail those. But the Overcharge ones are to be expected when repairing a regressing gen.
1 -
Oh wow! Didn't know that existed. Thanks!
Now if only I could find a way to give it to my teammates...
0 -
Does Jolt give a skill check? Do you mean Oppression?
0 -
Sort of.
Overcharge skill checks are the same size as DS but they have different modifiers.
IIRC (and it's been a long time since I heard this) Overcharge skillchecks are slightly faster and have a much larger radius that they can spawn in.
For example, DS can spawn, at the earliest, at 8'oclock on the skill check wheel. Overcharge can spawn at 4'oclock whilst moving faster than a DS skillcheck and having a smaller success zone.
0 -
Huh, didn't had much knowledge about skill checks, interesting.
0 -
They seem like small differences but Overcharge is still an issue, especially for me, when I'm not expecting it.
0 -
Jolt gives a skill check when the killer downs someone. Since thats unexpected, it surprises me sometimes.
0 -
Huh, I never knew that.
It's not on the wiki either.
0 -
Oh #########, you´re right. I confused it with Oppression.
My Bad!
0