Good update but something needs to be done to alleviate the tunneling problem
I'll preface by saying I AM a Survivor main who DID use Dead Hard in almost all of my builds. I'm not having a terrible time in most of my games. I loop for a smaller amount of time than before and that's fine, and I do enjoy most of the perk changes (except the changes made to self-care and botany) but my biggest issue has been tunneling.
BBQ getting its BP bonus removed has made people use it way less, I'm being completely honest when I say I think BBQ was a major factor contributing to killers not tunneling as often. It rewarded you for targeting other survivors by greatly increasing your BP gains.
With that incentive gone, people aren't using it now and are opting for slow down perks. This combined with Decisive getting a nerf and gen times taking longer than ever- tunneling is now an extremely safe and extremely optimal strat on a large number of killers.
I've noticed in so many games a killer will camp or tunnel until a survivor is out of the game before even 2 gens are done. Leaving the game to be an extremely steep uphill climb to survive in. It's no impossible but trying to win with only 3 people is a nightmare, especially for solo-queue.
I really think the endurance effect on hooks needs to be brought up to something like 8 or 9 seconds and there need to be more intense punishments for camping. I know you lose emblem points for doing so but why not make the killer actively lose bloodpoints for facecamping?
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I say bring the tokens back to BBQ and Chili. Make it so the range requirement decreases per stack.
Generally just buff the benefits of moving to other survivors.
(But I will say, there are some dumbass survivors who literally run INTO me several times in a match. I usually slug them, but you can only leave em on the ground for so long bedore they bleed out.)
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I agree with giving benefits of moving survivors. No matter how many perks they add or basekit additions to prevent tunneling people will still do it as currently it's the strongest way to slow down the game
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Unfortunately I agree. I definitely made use of it plenty of times when a survivor didn't have DS.
But even then I never specifically go for one person. If ya onky go for one, all the others are unpressured.
Right now a meta just needs to settle in, like I can gaurentee if AND WHEN Off the Record becomes widely known as the best Survivor perk, killers will be forced to spread out their focus a bit. And BAD killers will have a very very tough time.
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The only way to fix tunneling is to punish the killer on the exp and bp points. For example, if the killer downs the same survivor in a short period of time, they lose all the chase and hook points they got previously and gain no points for this second down and hook. In the end, they will earn less BP, less EXP and most likely de-pip too. The problem is figuring out the time to not make it unfair for the killer player.
With that being said, tunneling and camping will not be stopped by this, but it will discourage for sure.
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Tunneling is not a "problem" it’s a strat.
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There can be a BP tax for "camping"(define camping) as soon as there's a BP tax for bodyblocking with endurance.
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Even gen rushing, and still gen speed has been nerfed. Something being a strategy doesn't make it not unfun and frustrating and not to be dealt with.
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True, I've been facing way more tunneling/camping since the patch came out.
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The update was supposed to alleviate the tunneling problem.
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I doubt killers who are doing this really care that much about experience or BP. If they're tunneling off hook then they're not getting very many chase points. Tunneling is the optimal way to 4K, but it's not the optimal way to gain BP, so if you're tunneling this aggressively then BP isn't even on your radar.
This would also unnecessarily punish killers for taking advantage of bad survivor plays, e.g. hook bombing/farming.
It's like DRM on copyrighted content -- it doesn't punish the pirates, it only punishes the legit consumers.
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I completely disagree when you say tunneling is not the optimal way to gain BP. Tunneling gives the same amount of BP as if you were hooking every survivor at a time. There is absolutely zero downside to killers in the game for tunneling at the current state. No survivor/killer perks can solve that.
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If they're tunneling off hook, they're not getting very much in the chase category, probably not in deviousness either (depending on the specific killer).
If they're not doing that and they're running into the same survivor over and over while looking for a chase, it's not tunneling.
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I still disagree. They can get at least 28k BP tunneling off hook
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I described it as such in my post.
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I agree with buffing BT by a few seconds. 5 seconds is pretty short and could be bumped up. To be honest, I also like the Cage of Atonement mechanic on Pyramid Head where survivors teleport to a random spawn point.
For tunnelling I think one of my new favorite builds is Deliverance, OTR Sprint Burst and DS. For example, last night I faced a hard tunneling and facecamping Spirit. The Spirit hard tunneled one survivor out and refused to go after me until she was three hooked.
The Spirit then targeted me and after getting hooked I waited until a teammate had just gotten off gens. I then Kobed off so they could go back on gens, the Spirit went for me, hit me, I made it to the main building and at about 50 seconds in she downed me just in time for DS so she could chase me for another minute or so. I then stuck around on hook while the Spirit continuously M1'ed me.
At the end I died but, in taking me out, the gens had gone from 4 gens up when the first survivor died to all gens done by the time I was sacrificed. Pre-patch I'm sure that Spirit would have 4Ked us at 3 gens left. It wasn't an ideal outcome for us but that build allowed me to waste so much more time and at least we got the exit gates open for the other two.
Try out that build if you're seeing a lot of tunnelers; you may like it.
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I think the only viable method to reduce tunneling and camping is to make the alternative of 12 hooking the objectively better play.
The exact values are subject to change, but in DBD tournaments, they award scoring weighted by hook stage. So first stage is 3 points, second is 2, and later stages are only 1 in the tourneys I've seen.
Using this scoring, you could give the survivor team a collective pool of, say, 18 hook points. Each hook reduces the pool by the weighted number. But no survivors can die on hook until the pool hits zero.
Want to camp one survivor? Well, you're going to be there forever because he hangs on hook until you get to 18 points, which is 3 points for the first stage, 2 for second, and 1 point for every 60 seconds after that. Death hook would take 15 minutes with this system. Same thing with tunneling.
But, if you play for hooking everyone individually you end up needing less than 12 hooks to kill all survivors. This would be the optimal play, and everything else would be so inefficient it would be laughable.
This isn't exactly perfect, and it's complicated, but it's arguably better than trying to punish these play styles with penalties. Players tend to gravitate to the most efficient play style naturally.
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Oh, wow... I did not even consider that. I just went for stacks almost every game and now that they do not matter, I find myself tunneling even in casual games. Rofl. I genuinely forgot that BBQ forced me to interact with everyone. Funny thing about that is that I used to never use Save the Best for Last because I would lose stacks if I did not find the obsession first. But now I am running that perk all the time because I can just ignore that clown.
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Yeah, an unfun "strat". That it's valid does not mean it should not be subject to changes.
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Tunnelling is just as much 'not a problem' as boil over + Eyrie offering + hook distance offering and just running to the unhookable spot every single time.
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That was not really a problem either, to be honest. Annoying at best.
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