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Apologies to all the dredge mains and teammates

Obelt
Obelt Member Posts: 357
edited July 2022 in General Discussions

Because your Nightfall filter is way to dark i cannot see 3 meters in front of me or fix it its very unplayable and so i must die early on hook

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Comments

  • ThiccBudhha
    ThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,987

    It is really hard to see, not going to lie. I actually like playing against him though for those locker bloodpoints. Lol. That being said, I will probably run into a wall before I correctly loop him during nightfall.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 4,688

    Any game elements that change to affect sensory perception will always have varying affects on different people, and are thus best used sparingly and more subtly. Unfortunately this is just one of many times in this game, and it will continue to have many more.

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,482

    I just go to the corner of the map and wait it out so I don't have to worry about my eyes rupturing. All the filters they use are annoying. They had an orange glyph challenge that added some screen effects and horrible sound and I wanted to quit the game. I finished it tho, Claudettes science girl outfit had to be mine.

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,939

    I haven't touched the Level 1 Glyph challenge and don't plan to tbh.

    Honestly I kinda glance at the screen every now and then but mostly rely on hearing Dredge approach and chase as I watch something on my second screen lmao

  • Thusly_Boned
    Thusly_Boned Member Posts: 3,459

    I appreciate that, but I felt like on the PTB Nightfall was kind of irrelevant, and didn't really have much impact because it was too easy to see.

    I wonder what could be done to split the difference.

  • Maverick_74F
    Maverick_74F Member Posts: 159

    Your about to be shocked when you find out what the point of nightfall is

  • TheSubstitute
    TheSubstitute Member Posts: 2,618

    I was so lucky with that challenge. It spawned right in front of me at the beginning of the match so it was done after my first six hooks.

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,939

    You're completely correct in that it was a non-factor and that's entirely why it was fine*.

    *Fine here meaning "not an accessibility nightmare that causes serious problems to a portion of the community".

  • Starrseed
    Starrseed Member Posts: 1,798

    i think that we have a very big problem when it comes to things like this.

    i think nightfall is a really nice and creative power when you compare it to other killer powers but it can be a big problem when it comes to accessibillity. so whats the way to go stop making creativ power like that so at some point we have a bunch of killer that are powerwise basicly the same or do they keep making powers like that but they are either a problem for certein people or they are toned down so much they are basicly not there at all

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,076

    It's unfortunate, and you and I will likely disagree on this - but you cannot account for every potential accessibility issue when making a game or character, especially a horror game.

    People have myriad phobias, ranging from spiders to clowns to knives to vomit to deep water to tiny holes to blood to heights to open spaces to darkness.

    People have motion sickness.

    People are photosensitive - I have serious trouble with flashlights at times, as sudden bright lights or strobing give me a migraine.

    People have Long QT, so jumpscares, or even sudden movement are also out.

    And those are only a handful of the common ones.

    You can do stuff to help colorblind folks, for instance, as this doesn't interfere with or give an advantage in gameplay - and there are always small adjustments to be made (Dredge has already had two), but after a certain point it just isn't feasible, unless you want a horror game with almost no horror in it.

  • Akumakaji
    Akumakaji Member Posts: 5,619
    edited July 2022

    I will anger all the Dredge mains there by spoiling this well guarded secret, but a smol, underused survivor perk actually counters nightfall HARD, as in all capitals. Its called *drum roll* Windows of Opportunity.

  • MommyHunktress
    MommyHunktress Member Posts: 634

    as you have a point... some people have actual medical conditions that strain their eyes and cause problems. Some people are very sensitive so "sucking it up" actually physically and mentally hurts them for YOUR fun?! yeah well guess what somebodies health and pain is alway more important than your fun and game. Accessibility options would help this sort of thing and they are working on it, instead of you being a insensitive jerk, why dont you go somewhere else and learn some compassion for people that genuinely cant handle certain things for prolonged periods. The body isnt so simple and neither are mental or physical conditions that you can put people under one category or have everyone have the same reactions and symptoms. people like you make this game have bad rep

  • The_Krapper
    The_Krapper Member Posts: 3,259

    You could also run the new Deja vu, during nightfall it has saved my life plenty of times by giving me an idea where the tiles are once you start running

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,939
    edited July 2022

    You cannot cater to everything, no. What you can do is avoid the common issues as best you can and warn against others, such as with a photosensitivity disclaimer. Eye strain I thought wasn't common facing Dredge - and to the degree I suffer, it is rare - however a lot of people have complained about some form of eye strain like a lot of people complained about serious photosensitivity issues with Doctor/Sadako. If Doctor and Sadako can be toned down to accommodate, then so can Dredge.

    (Also, motion sickness can be fixed by not tying FOV to perks and instead just giving us an FOV slider. Helps accessibility and is just an overall good QOL feature to make everyone comfortable).

  • Akumakaji
    Akumakaji Member Posts: 5,619

    This is true. But honestly, if "sucking it up" hurts you really that much, I don't think that DBD would be the game for you, as much as I welcome everyone who wants to give it a try. This game has so much vitriol hardcoded into its DNA that I wouldn't recomment it to anyone with anything but very robust nerves of steel.

  • The_Krapper
    The_Krapper Member Posts: 3,259

    Come on now it really isn't that bad some people just take games too personal

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,076

    Sadako and Doctor were visual only. Dredge's entire mechanic is obfuscation, and if you tone it down any further (or to PTR levels like you suggest), the killer is then Sadako levels of craptacular.

    FOV is a similar issue - narrow FOV means motion sickness for some, but a wider FOV means killers can see more, which makes them stronger.

    Disclaimers - absolutely. I have zero problem with warning people that - hey - maybe this game isn't going to be a great fit for you, or at least be careful. But there is a trend, right now, of people equating mild personal discomfort (or more generally, the possible discomfort of a hypothetical other) with some sort of immense systemic problem and that rubs me up the wrong way.

    Just look at the trypophobia teacup storm recently.

  • MommyHunktress
    MommyHunktress Member Posts: 634

    yeah true, but im speaking for the people with like actual issues with sight and migraines. sucking it up can hurt them.

  • MommyHunktress
    MommyHunktress Member Posts: 634
  • TheSubstitute
    TheSubstitute Member Posts: 2,618

    What is the trypophobia teacup storm? I know what trypophobia means; I just only read select threads so I'm not sure what the controversy is

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 4,688

    Yeah accessibility has unfortunately always been a mess with this game. I'm amazed there still arent simple things like muting your own survivor's puking locally (killer still hearing it fine.) it's a simple fix for people who get synesthesia from things like that.

    As well as, you know, all the ones that have had dedicated topics get ignored.

  • Carth
    Carth Member Posts: 1,201

    Accessibility should always be strived towards but not at the cost of the game/killers becoming sadako tier. We could make the argument all audio cues should have a subtitle and arrow pointing to the sounds location present for deaf/hard of hearing people, but I imagine most dbd players would not like that because "footsteps" or "ghost face audio cue" with a big arrows pointing to the sounds source would butcher stealth on both sides.

    The dredges darkness falls in the same category. If you tone it down to PTB levels it literally does nothing. You might as well make it change the background color of the survivors equipped perks on their screen and you would get the same impact from the PTB levels of darkness.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 4,688

    Its not as much "his power should be made worthless" but more "maybe a different power should have been thought of entirely." The majority of accessibility issues in the game are caused by oversights of very common issues. You're going to inadvertantly cause issues for fringe cases pretty much no matter what you do, but things like photosensitivity and hearing issues are extremely common, both genetically and degenerative. Its like a golden rule of game accessibility to prioritize the most common issues your game mechanics can cause, and then immediately find ways of making them optional for people who would be affected before taking them live. If you can't figure it out before you release it, then you've already removed a lot of possibilities for adjustment without requiring a full on rework.

    Despite my personal stance on it accessibility wise, its actually working as intended now vs how it was in the PTB. Its unfortunately an ability that will affect different players differently no matter what, and the only way to get around that is to completely rethink it entirely.

  • Nicholas
    Nicholas Member Posts: 2,159
  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,076

    Okay. Let me explain it, because it's actually a pretty fascinating little social phenomenon.

    So basically, Trypophobia is a very common (but in the vast, vast majority of cases incredibly mild) 'phobia' (more like a slight uncomfortableness/thrill) involving a large number of holes or certain textures in very specific circumstances. The vast body of literature does not consider it a true phobia, as it's existence is entirely anecdotal and highly disputed, and the actual studies on it are inconclusive and where it exists, requires stuff deliberately constructed to provoke any sort of consistent reaction.

    An early reveal of the new X-Box console had a dust filter on top, which naturally had a grid of holes - and several prominent gaming publications, such as Kotaku, published massive thinkpieces about how bad this was, that they were acutely trypophobic, how common the phobia is, how so many things in real life (ranging from manhole covers to types of food) 'trigger' them.

    Like with a lot of Kotaku articles, it was almost certainly meant to garner 'what the hell?' hateclicks, to the level that it's at least a partial hoax, likely following a semi well known hoax paper involving trypophobia - as what they were saying was based entirely off online silliness, and contradicted the science on the topic.

    Naturally, this being the internet, a ton of people took this seriously and for the next...maybe year, basically everything that came out got a Twitter mob or similar articles decrying it in the most strident terms for being triggering to trypophobics, leading to - probably the apex of this entire ridiculous thing - Squenix changing upcoming game icons to remove holes.

    It was the equivalent of people demanding that flying and tall buildings be removed from games because of acrophobia - and at least acrophobia is a provable, commonly accepted phobia. And then devs actually doing it.

    The controversy was more about how the entire thing was hyped up online into a firestorm of silliness that led to things being changed unnecessarily.

    I'm basically deaf in one ear (my wife often has a laugh at my expense when I play Spirit, as apparently I turn my head from side to side like a doggo) but it's not reasonable to give me a giant arrow indicating where people are.

    Similarly, you can't just make Dredge suck because some people have a harder time seeing than others. It's not reasonable.

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,939

    "Sadako and Doctor were visual only. Dredge's entire mechanic is obfuscation, and if you tone it down any further (or to PTR levels like you suggest), the killer is then Sadako levels of craptacular."

    Nowhere did I suggest to tone it down to PTS levels. I'm well aware that would make the killer useless. There is, however, a middle ground between "literally impossible to tell a difference" and "diyeyestrain.com"

  • GoodBoyKaru
    GoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 22,939

    Hell updated maps like Haddonfield are still a photosensitivity nightmare with the flashlight lights and the darkness of the houses really don't help eye strain.

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,076

    Ah, your response to me could be taken two ways - it seemed like you wanted it to be 'fine', ala nerfed back to PTR levels.

    I don't think a middle ground is going to be possible here, because as things stand - even with my crappy eyes - I have no problem seeing, outside of already 'too dark' maps like Autohaven.

    Any more changes would maybe help a few people with visual issues out, but it would make Nightfall completely insignificant for everyone else. And I don't think that's the right way to balance things.

    Either you'll have to rework the entire mechanic, or maybe just leave it.

  • TheSubstitute
    TheSubstitute Member Posts: 2,618
  • Krazzik
    Krazzik Member Posts: 2,473

    While it's good to try and make games as accessable as possible, there are simply certain games that are not made for certain people. VHS has this issue since a LOT of the tracking in that game is sound-based, and people have criticized the game for not being accessable for hard-of-hearing individuals. I'm sorry but at a certain point you need to realise that a disability -is- going to mean certain games are not for you.

  • acharliet
    acharliet Member Posts: 155

    Self care ? after patch ? hm, U should apologise to ur teamates, sorry for this tho.

  • Krazzik
    Krazzik Member Posts: 2,473

    Rank 1 Self Care is still a busted perk and I encourage every survivor to run it and test it thoroughly to see :)

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 4,688

    Cool now that a system that basically gives you glaucoma-vision was added to a game that people have been playing for years has changed it from a game that people were able to work around their issues to one where they can't. You don't get to decide who can and can't play a game, but especially when its regarding an update to the game that makes it worse. Accessibility is supposed to be improved over time, but never removed unless replaced.