Patch is fine, you just climbed higher in mmr than you should of
I'm getting quite tired of seeing people complain about this patch or already wanting nerfs.
The biggest issue atm is tunneling (no surprise as no one runs DS) but this is the biggest issue that needs a double incentive for killers (punish those who tunnel, reward those who dont)
Everything else in the patch was fine an barely made any difference to the game when people actually play.
The biggest changes in this patch was DH and gen time (even though they nerfed all the good regression perks).
And believe it or not, alot of people got carried by DH... even if you didnt use the perk yourself you would of had teammates that did extending multiple chases throughout the match making it easier for your team to escape/gain mmr.
Alot of people would of been carried into an mmr they didnt belong whether through the use of DH, others using DH or even just being placed on a good team.
This update will punish those players who are in a higher mmr than they belong or punish those people who arent efficient or pushing gens at the level needed for that mmr.
Give it time and keep trying, you'll settle into a new mmr bracket for your skill and efficiency. My games have massively improved as times gone on, I get less and less rage quits and people throwing and now I'm back to the usual 5min games.
SUMMARY: GIVE THE UPDATE TIME, Your mmr will adjust to where you actually belong (in terms of chases & efficiency) this patch is pushing for survivors having to all contribute and try in the game, you cant have 1 person never do a gen or a chase and still win, the games a 4v1 not a 3v1.
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“Incentives” that isn’t gonna fix anything. People are gonna still camp and tunnel because it’s easier and leads to wins. They should I don’t know.. actually fix it
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Dead Hard this and Dead Hard that... what about the ones of us who didn't use Dead Hard?
I was already using the same build I'm using now (Just changed inner strength for prove thyself), so what was carrying me to a MMR where I did not belong? Kindred? Bond? Lithe? My build was not nerfed in any way.
It's not about Dead Hard. It's about increased gen times (80 to 90) and killers still stacking slowdowns, plus chases being nerfed (breaking pallets faster, 2 stacks of STBL basekit, survivors speed boost after hit reduced, bloodlust 2 and 3 buffed.
All those things by themselves don't seem like a lot, but them changing all of that at the same time in a single update, it does stack and made things worse.
Solo Q was in a already not great spot, and now it's even worse.
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You think the MMR works? Oh my sweet, summer child.
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Most of the updates is fine if your in a swf. Even I would admit that I overreacted. But Solo definitely got no part of the stick. Not even the short end.
But it's undeniable that camping and tunneling was buffed this patch and the basekit additions to handle that is ineffective. They need to do something to adequately addressed camping and tunneling
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My avarage escape rate before the patch was allready probably below 50% in SoloQ so I am not in high MMR and most people are not in high MMR. Yet many people are still unhappy.
Long story short: this has nothing or very little to do with MMR.
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Mentioning dead hard is like a broken record. It's starting to become just a cheap way to dismiss any argument or criticism of the patch that it needs.
" oh your complaining? You just got carried by dead hard"
It's annoying
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Yes yes, none of the survivors on this forum ever used DH, we know.
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Another one obsessed with dead hard. It got nerfed, it can't hurt you anymore, you're safe.
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Tired of people plugging their ears and burying their heads in the sand.
This update SUCKS for casual Survivors.
I don't really think it needs time, I'd rather just not play at all tbh. I get maybe one good match a night. Not worth it lol
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Killer mains will say anything to justify the completely unfair and broken patch.
The game is so unfair and killer sided, MMR doesn't even work.
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Why is it so difficult for you to imagine Solo Q players are a varied bunch, and some of us (me included) never used Dead hard? Whenever I watched sweaty streamers who eat, sleep and breathe DBD, I know DH was always used. There's no question it was the top perk at high MMR. But there's a huge crop of casual Solo Q players that have always used different perks.
My old build was Borrowed Time, Decisive, Lithe and the fourth would be old Botany Knowledge, Inner Strength or Q&Q. The first two obviously as necessary anti-camp/anti-tunnel.
Most Solo Q players are not high MMR. The majority of players on all sides are in that huge middle zone between low and high.
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Because everyone keeps saying they never used DH and it's funny as hell
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MMR isnt an issue to justify the mess they produced.
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Ok then lol.
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I explained about the ones using DH so you should probably of read first.
And those changes make very little difference in the big picture, biggest issues with solo Q are the same issues as before the patch nothing changed...
Solo Q issues are randoms not doing anything, them dcing etc. Which is the exact same now but you shouldn't win as a 3v1 or that makes every game a all 4 do something an imbalanced mess.
Once again, I'm agreeing it should be punished... but whys it so hard to see killers do it because it's most effective? If you want tunneling etc. To stop you punish those who do it BUT also reward those who dont, this means the people who dont tunnel are not only not punished but rewarded.
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To clarify, the killer buffs don’t make the game “worse”, they make it a bit harder to escape. Being somewhat harder to win doesn’t mean the game is “worse” if it was presumably a bit too easy to win previously.
That’s not to say there are very specific things in the patch that probably won’t need a small adjustment. Decisive Strike could stand to be 4 seconds stun I think, for instance, and STBFL might need to be tweaked back down to the fastest recovery speed it had pre-patch. But on the whole the changes are positive for the game.
Also note that solo survivors having a balance gap against swf players has always been a thing and wasn’t something meant to be specifically addressed in this patch. The devs did announce a separate initiative in January to make HUD changes to help survivors but that got put on hold to make way for everything else this year, so hopefully that will eventually get back in the pipeline. But I don’t think the patch specifically made solo harder as much as it made winning as survivors a bit harder across the board, it’s just that solo survivors are still at the bottom of that stack in terms of escape rates.
Finally note that the aggregate site kill rates have leveled off from the increases they spiked to in the first couple of days following the patch. They’re looking like they’re going to end up around something like 5-9% higher than they were prepatch versus the much larger 15-19% they briefly had when the patch first hit. That short term brief difference has to do with survivors getting used to the new system, a lot of survivors switching from using Dead Hard every game to other perks, and with a rash of people rage quitting on early downs which thankfully seems to be abating now that people’s tempers seem to be cooling off. It’ll still be a more killer friendly environment in the end but definitely not one where survivors who play well don’t do well on average.
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So all the things that sucks for casual killers was fine? And any good player as killer?
So it's fine for one side to hate it but not the other? Seems a little unfair especially when the patch actually made very little difference if people actually play properly...
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I mean it is... so many people escaped games they shouldn't and now they dont have DH or their team dont have DH as well as the update pushing for everyone to contribute yeah.. it's a big reason
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It's funny because you play more killer than I do lol.
And mmr doesnt work because it's a bad system and too many people got to an mmr they didnt belong
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People are definitely lying about not using DH lol. I'm probably mid-tier with both survivor and killer, and I always play survivor solo. The number of pre-patch games where there wasn't at least someone using Dead Hard, whether on my team or against me, was probably less than ten percent; I kept track of around 60 games (30 each) on both sides for a while out of curiosity over meta perk usage, and it was 6% of games with no Dead Hard; that trend didn't change substantially in my other games. So when people say the single strongest perk in the game getting nerfed is unimportant and 'AcTuAlLy I DiDn'T UsE iT', I know either:
1) they're lying anyway, or
2) they don't realize that the vast majority DID use it, and their anecdotes mean nothing for how much the nerf changed things
I would say DH nerf accounts for about a quarter of the total difference in Soloq results; over nerfed perks (DS/Iron Will) for another quarter, and killer perks/buffed M1 for the other half. So I don't even think it was that big a factor overall, but pretending it doesn't matter is nonsense.
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It shouldn't take but a few games for your MMR to drop. Survivors still can't win.
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Well the devs released the numbers on DH usage. IT WAS USED AT ALL MMR LEVELS, it just got more used the higher you went.
But people like to act like they never used it or never seen it, even though a bunch of the people who claim to use it also said "just bait it out" or "DH is fine"
I know I could see 3-4DH every game, I always used it and I still do
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Exactly. I'm a casual Solo Q player. I have a job. I have responsibilities during the week. I can't log in all the time. And when I did play, sure, I'd try my best of course not to let the team down, but I just don't like DBD in super sweat mode. I'd sometimes run Blast Mine, or try something new. But it makes me wonder how many people are casuals playing, vs how many watch the top streamers and absorb their opinions. Or how many were being mis-matched, or versing SWFs.
In my area of MMR pre-patch (I'm probably a mid-tier Solo survivor, but I'm in low MMR Hell and can't get out), I've seen Dead Hard's fail epicly. I always had that team mate that ran out for their flashlight save while I'm being carried *'I'm coming Bill! Watch me blind the Killer with my dazzling skills!"*.
Never lands. Just never, never works LOL. And I always think; "Bless. You tried. Please do a gen now. I beg you".
The casual Solo Q experience was always Clown world. I've never been a part of this DBD experience where every survivor is a God looper, and Dead Hard managed to complete 2 gens on it's own, picked up slugs, healed 12 survivors and opened the gate while simultaneously cleansing NOED.
But it was a Clown World that had it's moments. Like you got some really fun matches and a bunch of the same 'ol face camp. Now, it's actually kind of depressing after the patch.
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Yes they can, I guess all the games me and others have won are just moved to the matrix
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And what if not camping and tunnelling was easier and led to more wins, because of incentives?
Which is precisely why I don't camp and tunnel, Make Your Choice and Devour Hope are far more profitable.
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Oh, yes, the 4-man SWF's aren't really having any issues I'm sure.
However, unless you are going up against a really good squad, Killer is pretty easy at the moment. Even when I went against Brice and Zillence's squads earlier, I still 11 hooked them as Legion on The Game.
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When the guy with roughly 140% escape rate in Solo-Q (or something like that) says it, it has to be true.
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You still on this argument of not using DH.
Again, there are 4 survivors my man. You not using DH doesnt mean your teammates werent boosted by it.
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Saying that people escaped games they shouldnt is just taking guesses. DH didnt do anything for bad players as they didnt even know how to pull it off efficiently. DH nerf just effect good players as they now have less defense against S-Tier killers. Also most people are basically on the same MMR. High MMR is more a myth than reality, cause the matchmaking is just by far to vague. You see players that are highly skilled playing with low skilled players as a standard match. MMR does nothing here.
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If threads keep getting made about "get good without dead hard", I have all the right to comment about not using it and mentioning everything else that got buffed on the killer side, since you guys conveniently keep omitting it.
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DH was the single perk that hard carried and boosted a good amount of survivors past their actual skill cap. I wrote multiple essays about this, so I am tired of repeating myself, but one thing that puzzles me is this: DH had such a high pick rate, um to 3/4 of the players had it equipped at the higher levels of play, slightly over 50% of the player base at all times, and yet everyone on the forums here claims "btw, I NEVER played with DH". Curious.
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Then old dh was fine also, and should be base kit. Only killers were in higher mmr than they deserved
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At the very low level sure, let's not act like pressing DH for distance was a hard thing to pull off and even casual players could do it while the top mmr would get insane usage out of it, but they still can now with the new DH.
It's not a guess DH impacted alot of games, at all levels and even if it didnt always lead to a win it would of made it closer.
And mmr is a bad system I completely agree, but sadly time of day and servers also impact the players skill you would see as well as backfill
But everyone always goes to this streamer is winning every killer game, when that streamer is playing 8hours a day so they kinda should...
But there are people out there who while can play well arent in high mmr, some survivor main streamers are like it. Really good loopers but tend to mess about all game pulling of "tecs" on low mmr killers for views... but because of the bad mmr system being escapes only it doesnt matter, they can be chased for 5mins and get camped and the games says they're bad...
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You guys really are obsessed with dead hard, even writing MULTIPLE essays about it. Please let it go. I thought you guys would at least get over it once it got nerfed, but here we are, still talking about dead hard because you people cant let it go.
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Once again, as I stated in the OP.
JUST BECAUSE YOU DIDNT USE DH DOESNT MEAN YOUR TEAM DIDNT.
Just because you didnt doesnt mean there couldn't still be 3DHs massively improving how your team did in chases... so even if you didnt directly use the perk you will be indirectly feeling its nerf through teammates...
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I love when people trying to find...not that clever reasons to justify this patch. Heres the today example.
Its about mmr. I climbed so high that I didn't deserve to be there. Clearly mmr working as intended, its well made and sophisticated. 🙄
You got me good today.
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Why this argument doesn't work: this would have corrected itself after about a week.
But it hasn't. Because it won't. Because it isn't the issue at all
The issue is that camping and tunneling were given massive buffs, and killers were essentially given an extra perk slot by removing the need for chase perks and removing BBQ and chili's bp bonus.
With the new chase powers killers have, they can feel free to run 3 or 4 slowdown or regression perks. Throw this on top of the extra time it takes to do generators and you've got a recipe for disaster. Throw in a removal of fear of decisive strike, along with faster chased and if course survivors aren't having a good time.
The funny thing is BHVR said they wanted to make it so killers didn't feel the need to run regression perks, and instead made it so they don't feel the need to run anything but regression perks.
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Nobody said it was never used. People who didn't use it have to make that point or anything they say is dismissed. Personally I don't like exhaustion perks so I rarely used them.
As for the update, overall my experience hasn't been too bad. It's been about the same for me. However since my experience isn't the only one that matters I'm not going to make posts telling everyone else they're wrong.
I was pretty unhappy with the perk changes overall. So many things were nerfed for no real reason. The killer basekit buffs were a overall healthy change imo.
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DH clearly made a difference. It was mentioned above but just because YOU specifically didn't use DH, doesn't mean your teammates didn't. Your teammates ability to extend chases 30 to 60 seconds or more effects everyone on the team. It allows you and your team to get 30+ seconds to stay on a gen, to heal, to unhook and heal. I think that's the point the person was trying to make.
Saying the DH change didn't make a huge difference in the game is craziness. I would honestly say 9 out of 10 games I played before patch had at least 2 survivors with DH. If they each used it effectively only ONCE in a match that's 60 seconds to 2 minutes of extra time their teammates could keep doing gens or whatever. That is massive.
Anyways, about tunneling and camping. My vote is still make first hook to struggle phase take 30 seconds longer. Revert DS and kindred base kit without killer aura buff.
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>DH didnt do anything for bad players as they didnt even know how to pull it off efficiently.
Finally, I feel like my voice is being heard
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DH had a 75% pick rate. This means you were practically guaranteed to have at least two in every game.
Given how effective that perk in a chase was, if each of those two-on-average survivors used it just once a game, it was likely giving survivors (as a team) about 1-2 minutes of free time, every single game. That's free time you as a non-DH user would have had to repair gens.
So whether or not you were using it personally, it's was a very effective tool for all survivors, and compounded the effects of genrushing.
So yes, other things got buffed for the killer, but a 0.3s reduction of break and hit cooldowns is no where near as impactful as 1-2 minutes of risk free chases for survivors. And while gen times increasing does have a significant effect, it's one that is easily counterable via smart, cautious survivor play, as opposed to simply having a chase extended by 30-60 seconds with nothing you can do to prevent it. Baring in mind a killer has to make up to 12 chases a game, or more if unlucky. While survivors only need to repair 5 gens.
I also never played with DH before the patch (or after for that matter). Instead of whining about 'easy' it is for killers now, I'm instead using my learned behaviours of years of non-DH solo survivor play and doing just fine as a solo survivor, because I'm not making risky plays, I know how long it takes me to reach a given pallet or vault, and I evade the killer instead of rushing up to the hook in his face.
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Survivors are still downplaying the strangehold the perk had on the game, so the same could be said about you guys, ie drop your narrative of "its just one perk and no one ever used it" ;D
Whatever, mate, this is the dbd forums, and we will continue to obsess about any minute detail and discuss it to death, hades, and back again with neither rhyme or reason.
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Camping and tunneling is an issue, even before the patch dropped I shared my concerns with it and explained it would be bad without additional changes.
But that's not the patch being imbalanced that's the devs not addressing tunneling and camping which they need to do.
And killers will always run slowdown because at base it's just not good enough especially as you climb higher in mmr.
I'm a sweaty survivor main or whatever I'm classed as, but a killer without gen defense/regression has and always will be easy. But tunneling and camping is the biggest issue currently
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Where did I say no one ever used it? I said IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII didnt use it, yet this patch is affecting me as much as everyone else who did, because people like you keep avoiding mentioning everything else.
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Iv never in my life said this SBMM is good... however alot of people will have climbed higher than they should have with the old patches with stacked second chance perks especially DH.
If killers didnt camp/tunnel the patch is fine, people are looking at an issue but blaming the patch
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@Marigoria Riddle me this: every killer in the past could equip Brutal Strength (+20% palette break and gen kick speed) and hit a couple of survivors with Save the best for last (lets go for a moderate 3 hits and +15% on hit cool down). Throw in Thanatophobia for about +10% gen speed debuff.
Why didn't games in the past just implode under this circumstances, that could very much represent a common midgame match?
I proclaim that it wasn't the 10% killer buff that threw the game into stupor for 2 days straight till some of the better survivors woke up from their paralysis, it was just the absence of DH. We would have seen the same effect if they had just taken DH away. That everything happened at the same time is a bit unfortunate, but the 10% killer buff and 10 extra seconds gen time aren't what is what is "handing killers free kills", its survivors unable to cope with the loss of their savety net.
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Still perks basekit, that you would have to equip before and wouldnt give you room to stack 4 slowdowns. How is this so difficult to understand?
The same way solo q survivors want kindred basekit, so I can use that slot for something else instead.
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I don't play with 4 slowdown perks, yet I also experienced the "all you can kill" buffet. This IS difficult to understand, so help me understand it :)
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The issue is that killers no longer need anything but regression perks, which absolutely need toned down. As someone who, before this patch, mainly played killer, I can see just how they're too strong with the additional 10 seconds on generators. And I only switched to mainly survivor this patch due to long queue times
Three regression perks is overkill. Without toning down things like call of brine, overcharge, eruption, thanataphobia and pain resonance, this patch will continue to make survivors miserable.
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Survivors got BT basekit... just because one patch was aimed at killers doesnt make the whole game killer sided...
The devs themselves said alot of killers where underperforming and that's why these changes was added as well as mixing up the meta which they did.
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