Good job, BHVR, you completely obliterated Thanatophobia
You might as well revert the buff to Thana to its original state because this is just pathetic. Because Plague and Legion get to have use out of this perk doesn't mean that other killers have to suffer from it. What the hell is the point of using this unique perk on Nurse when it's originally designed for her? No reason whatsoever.
Please, rethink your balance choices, this is complete asinine.
Comments
-
I was about to make this thread. Why on earth would they nerf Thana in this way? They just made it so that it's completely unusable on anyone who isn't Legion or Plague... the two killers who were considered problematic with it.
They should have done the complete opposite and made the first stacks of Thana more impactful than later stacks, so it's more viable across all killers. What a truly bizarre nerf.
33 -
Thana went from being broken on Legion and Plague, and meh on everyone else. To meh on legion and plague, and useless on everyone else.
17 -
I would've been fine with a revert to Thana tbh, but this is just overkill.
5 -
Have to agree,
This change makes zero objective sense, who made this call?
11 -
Honestly the least thing they could have done with this nerf is have it count in dead people as well.
Seriously, the only way you ever get any use from it is by having all 4 Survivors alive and injured. As soon as one of them dies, disconnects or heals the entire Perk goes in the bin.
6% is laughably low, ESPECIALLY since it doesn't affect anything else than repairing, sabotaging and cleansing speed.
3 -
I have some solid guesses but I'm not trying to get banned.
1 -
I mean....good?
One step away from gen slowdown/regression meta is another step towards a chase or tracking meta and I'm all for that.
12 -
The issue is that Thana Legion and Plague are barely any weaker than before. Thana was a pretty average slowdown perk on everyone else; it wasn't bad, but you could get more mileage out of gen regression perks. So this didn't really change the meta for anyone.
1 -
It's worthless on legion now. There's medkits nearly every game and all a survivor has to do is bang out a 10s heal to deny an entire perk slot for the killer. That's assuming that survivors just don't leave as soon as they see mend. Most of my chain frenzies are 2-3 targets which doesn't benefit me at all anymore.
At least plague gets a fountain out of it.
2 -
The problem was not thana by itself, it is the slowdown meta.
Maybe you can play against thana, but when thana is combined with gift of pain, deadlock, sloppy, eruption, jolt, pentimento, it can drag games to an absurd amount of time (+30min) as i believe there is no set amount for how much you can stack repair penalties. and thana was the easiest to proc out of all slowdown perks
10 -
I know that when I play killer, I put those perks in my uhh... Six perk slots which I definitely have.
I also like how you slapped Sloppy in there for reasons.
1 -
Thing is, it puts survivors in a position where they can either waste time or waste time. Healing is pointless versus Legion (aside from doing risky hook saves) because you can't really avoid the first hit and they can find you so easily, so while the reward isn't as tangible as Corrupt Purge, telling survivors to heal is still benefitting the Legion. Especially when any medkits run out. Unless the Legion is really flopping, they're still going to get good slowdown out of Thana, one way or the other.
1 -
I'm not much of a killer player and I don't use thanatophobia much, but what I'm really curious about is jumps in balancing. I've seen it in a lot of games, but honestly it's interesting to know the reason and number break down behind them.
Like, why 5.5% to 2%? Why not 3%? Why is it 8%+12% and not say...10%+10%? Or just 15% overall? Is it because of other perk interactions that make up the percentages or..?
For that matter I'm kinda curious about why so many percentages exist in odd forms in dbd, like a 2% action speed bonus in spine chill. Is that a holdover from something else, or just to make the ranks up?
2 -
It's not pointless if you can make it efficient. Legion doesn't magically fly to your location as soon as you're healed and immediately injure you. He's gotta frenzy then catch you and in the meantime he's not getting any value out of thana. Then if during chase with you a single ally heals he's back to square one with thana value.
So it's just a matter of efficiency. Is it efficient to keep one survivor healed in order to deny an entire killer perk slot? Of course it is. Especially with how fast heals are with buffed botany and Circle.
3 -
i didnt think i would have to clarify that you cant use those six perks at the same time, and you can use differente combination of those six.
Have you ever played a thana legion with sloppy? even if it does not affect directly to gen repair speed, it will affect you if you have 4 thana stacks and everyone has mangled effect. It is really not that difficult to see
2 -
I've never played vs. a thana legion with sloppy, but I have *been* a thana legion with sloppy. Sloppy isn't that great on them cuz it only counts on the final hit. I prefer brutal or bamboozle. Legion's weakness is in chase and it's better to cover that however you can.
1 -
well, let me honestly tell you is not fun
2 -
Frenzy doesn't apply Sloppy, though... the Legion addon that applies Mangled when people mend is way more powerful.
Eh, fair enough. I doubt it'll be viable in every situation, and you can't rely on specific survivor perks or items or items across the board, but survivors can generally keep someone healed versus a non-snowballing Legion. I maintain it is still slowdown, though, since decent survivors wouldn't be healing versus Legion otherwise and it doesn't usually benefit them to be healthy.
1 -
This is just a step towards a camping meta. Thanatophobia encouraged killers to patrol and injure as many survivors as possible and keep them injured instead of sitting by a hook and only getting 1 value out of it.
1 -
yeah let’s point fingers and start harassing developers over a stupid change. Go the ######### outside and touch some grass it’s just a game
1 -
Just use pento now way stronger
0 -
Survivors cried, devs caved. This is been going on since the game release pretty much.
5 -
It's because of the 10 second in crease to generators, how is this so difficult for some of you to understand?
Pre 6.1 gen time 1 Survivor injured - 84.2 seconds
6.1 gen time 1 Survivor injured - 95.2 seconds
6.1.2 gen time 1 Survivor injured - 91.8 seconds
Pre 6.1 gen time 2 Survivor injured - 88.8 seconds
6.1 gen time 2 Survivor injured - 101.1 seconds
6.1.2 gen time 2 Survivor injured - 93.7 seconds
Pre 6.1 gen time 3 Survivor injured - 94.1 seconds
6.1 gen time 3 Survivor injured - 107.7 seconds
6.1.2 gen time 3 Survivor injured - 95.7 seconds
Pre 6.1 gen time 4 Survivor injured - 100 seconds
6.1 gen time 4 Survivor injured - 115.3 seconds
6.1.2 gen time 4 Survivor injured - 112.5 seconds
7 -
Huh? gen increased by 10 seconds and for some reason they choose weird number?
0 -
Totally complete
It was 5.5 per survivor but now is 2
Just make it 3 dude
Wth
0 -
oh no 12.5 seconds at the absolute worst which, much like the +10sec base, aren't even additive since the burden is shared by 4 people and not 1.
Nobody's going to say it wasn't stronger than it was before the buff, but the entire point of buffing it in the first place was so that it would actually be used. Instead they didn't fix what made it exploitable that people hated so much, and just gutted it for everyone else so it'll be used even less than it was before the buff. People hated seeing it every match because they saw specific killers getting disproportionate value out of it, and now that is literally the only time they will ever see it again.
5 -
I have no idea either, in other news I was just able to purchase a "Tickle Me Elmo" on ebay.
2 -
I love that killers have spent the last two weeks telling survivors to stop moaning and deal with it.
They get one nerf and here were are again... we love the hypocrisy.
8 -
Just learn to adapt and stop crutching one perk. It's literally what killer mains said for DH all week.
8 -
I don't want it to be a crutch, I just want it to actually do something useful in a feasible manner. Keeping all 4 survivors injured for more than a few seconds, even with Legion, is a pipe dream, and 2% slowdown doesn't seem worth the perk slot.
2 -
As a technical note, if Thanatophobia was a consistent 10% slowdown that would work out to being 100 seconds to finish a gen solo which would be identical to the 100 seconds it took with the prior version of the perk when it was 20% regression and gens took a baseline 80 seconds to finish. So hypothetically if they tweak this new version of Thana to be about 10% regression with 1-3 survivors injured, and 20% with four injured, then other killers could use it and still be seeing 100 second timer baselines which might be ok. 🤷♂️
Point being I don’t think it’s necessarily bad to have it be a big bonus at 4 injured survivors, but the 6% when it’s not is probably too little to be useful.
2 -
i mean 1.8 sec extra gen time (this is if the survivor stays injured for a full gen repair of 90 secs) is really not worth a perk slot.
And yeah the perk can be good if all survivors are injured at the same time, but that really never happens perhaps with legion and plague as exceptions.
4 -
I mean, like yeah I appreciate that breakdown (though I was doing my own to try to figure it out), but my comment was more about the roundness of numbers in general in dbd, and also like...2% is less than half of 5.5%, which is a pretty big balance change and forced them to compensate for the situation in other ways, introducing new gameplay (though that isn't always a bad thing).
Also from that breakdown, level 4 only shaves 3 seconds off with this balance, which feels negligible, but also level 1 adds 1.8s, level 2 adds 3.7s, and level 3 adds 5.7s. That's not a lot, just taking the merits of the perk by itself. I mean I know they did this to nerf very difficult times for survivors (which I appreciate, since I mostly play survivor), but like let's look at somewhere in the middle, 3.5%.
If my calculations are correct, and there's no reason why they would be, at 3.5%:
1 injury = 3.15s extra
2 injuries = 6.3s extra
3 injuries = 9.45s extra
4 injuries = 12.6s extra.
This nerfs the top level significantly to 102.6s (which I assume is the least used case) while providing more utility for killers and also not adding a crazily heavy burden on survivors. And that's a 2% decrease. 3% looks even better and more tame, while still providing value on lesser hits.
All I'm saying is, I know the devs have the facts and numbers, but I've seen many people jump from large to small and then finally (years later) settle on a middle ground, and I'm just curious what makes people do that, because on paper, it looks like a pretty significant change.
2 -
adapt and move on, bro. there are so many other perks. This is just killer entitlement that I'm hearing. If you start losing matches because of this it just means you were boosted and you had an inflated MMR.
See, again all the same arguments survivors got to hear for the last two weeks!
1 -
they didn't fix what made it exploitable that people hated so much
What were they supposed to do? Nerv legion and plague? Jesus, there are easily 6 other alternatives if you want passive slowdown and you cry about the nerf to the one perk that only really worked too well on two killers.
2 -
Perks have been changed to affect specific killers powers plenty of times. Those two have the most potential to even see the perks value, let alone consistently. That didn't change, they just made everyone get less value overall. Plague and Legion are still the only two who would bother to run it, they just get less than they did after the buff. Now we went from trying to buff the perk to "shake up the meta" to nerfing it worse than it was before the buff, all in a month. There are any number of ways they could have handled it differently, but this sure ain't it chief.
1 -
i will die on this hill thana was never good, it was only good on legion or plague but on most killers its pretty bad so it is no big deal calm down
2 -
I don't use Thana. The point isn't that I have some infatuation with this perk, I would just like perks that don't have much use (Dying Light, Smash Hit, Mettle of Man, No Mither, etc.) to have some. I like their idea to encourage targeting multiple people, but 2% slowdown just isn't worth it, and the 12% is largely unobtainable. I hardly ever use Thana because I prefer other perks, but that doesn't mean I want it to be useless.
Hell, the buff they gave Coulrophobia, a perk that was largely useless until now, has been fun as hell w/ Doctor. I don't want every perk to be amazing, just useful in some way. Please, don't misconstrue what I'm saying.
1 -
Exactly this.
0 -
But hey, at least you can still run it on Legion and Plague.
0 -
Please show me where the OP told survivors to stop moaning.
0 -
A tracking meta would be an absolute joke. I use bloodhound and sloppy butcher and when survivors don't heal often i basically know where they are practically all the time due to the massive blood trails that last long as hell. So they either constantly heal instead of doing gens or i know where they are at all times. This would be absolute hell on nurse's calling, bloodhound and sloppy butcher on someone like wraith, especially with the speed addons.
Thanatophobia is basically completely useless unless you have everyone injured. Even if they nerfed it due to the 10s gen increase then instead of completely destroying the perk they could have easily just nerfed it to something like 4% or 3.5% without that stupid bonus that happens due to everyone being injured.
Now it's really only useful for plague.
2 -
BHVR: You guy have been giving comments about how Nurse and Blight are very strong killers, So in regards to that, we Decided to nerf Mettle of man. We also decided to destroy thana because.... idk just because
0 -
Yea indeed. Well, the idea is fine. You get rewarded, if u achieve a goal (here: injure 4 survivors at once). I think thats too hard for almost every killer. The Bonus should be rewarded when 3 are injured.
New Thana: Reward for doing a goal
Corrupt / Ruin: Get punished for doing your goal
I think more Perks should work like new Thana on both sides, but with easier goals (like i said: 3 guys instead of 4 for example). Yes I know, there is Legion and Plague, but tbh Legion will mostly not reach 4 survs injured without the yellow Addon-Combo. Just said.
When I see Commodious Toolboxes with 20 extra charges + Build to Last + Prove Thyself (which has a high percentage tbh), then I dont think Thana is OP or anything like that.
You kill Thana? Fine
But whats about Prove Thyself and Commodious / Alex Toolbox?
Conclusion:
Main-Idea of Thana, getting rewarded when doing a objective = Great
Thats a good way to change perks, but the goals should be possible for every killer, not just two.
1 -
They explained why they've changed MoM and Thana.
They have numbers, and make decisions based on these, not based on the comments. They know the MMR differences, when a player DCed, AFKed, killed himself on hook, ... and they see it for all the games instead of a microcosm.
If Thana really doesn't work anymore, they'll tune it again.
0 -
lets hope so, but then again, perks like This is not happening or Huntresses bloodlust perk rarely get used and they never change that
0 -
If the gens got a 10sec more with the update, it's mostly because they were done a way too fast, and it's logic to say they buffed thanato in this way. But then, boom, thanato got absolutely wrecked jsut after being buffed, this is a total #########.
Honestly, thanato didn't nedded a buff, but certainly not deserved this destruction. Did they know injuring 4 survs is like, mostly impossible ? or it's on very rare occasions ? Okay for legion and plague, i get it, but EVEN IF it's for these two, hte change is, in any way, stupid.
Also, for god sake, don't say it's because of the cumulable differents slow for gens, for the simple reason it's not a reason to wreck a perk at this point for that. They wanted to nef him ? okay, okay, this don't feel necessary, but, to 22% to 8%, hell on you behavior ! Go middle ground, and put it to 16~18% if it's really a concern...
8%, dudes, even on legion and plague i don't want this thing, this is nothing !
2 -
Honestly never been in or seen any of these 30+ minute games that people are referring too. Can they really go on that long without the Killer either sucking or other Survivors not doing anything?
0 -
Please show me where I said it was OP. It was a general observation
1 -
Plenty of perks that suck on the killer you get them from but work better with other killers, nothing new here.
0
