Can the Hatch changes get reverted?
Especially since most Killers are already having an easy time getting more Kills? I don’t get why it was removed, since you had to do the objective (repairing gens) before it spawned. And the Franklin’s change (depleting your item while it’s on the ground) should also be reverted to old Franklin’s, since it was only changed so that people with keys had no charges left to open the Hatch.
What are your thoughts about it? Revert it or not?
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If it allows multiple players to escape before all the gens are done, then no.
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"You had to do the objective before it spawned"
Except you literally didn't. That was the problem with it. You'd have 1-2 gens left and 2-3 escapes for free with nothing the killer can do about it. There was nothing fun about matches ending prematurely. Hatch is fine as it is now.
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I'd have no issues with making hatch spawn when all gens get done, and current hatch is nearly useless, but letting multiple survivors escape before the gens are powered was completely unfair and has no more place in this game than 1-hook moris did.
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What if the hatch would spawn after gates are powered?
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Admittedly, I play more survivor than killer, but I also played plenty of killer during the old hatch. Just an estimate, and obviously just anecdotal and my opinion, but in maybe 1,000 killer games. I may have had a three person key escape, maybe in 10-15 games. The only time it really bothered me even a little would be if I just never even noticed they had a key.
If I knew they had a key, I usually could sweat my balls off and slug as a counter. I actually found those games to be pretty fun as it definitely added some spice to my games.
As a survivor, of course I liked the old hatch because it was another way to escape. One of my favorite games I was playing with my wife. She found the hatch in the shack and used her key to get out. The killer shut the hatch and I used a key I found in a chest and got out mid chase as well. We were dying laughing. I can see why a killer would be frustrated though.
I don't play enough right now for my opinion to really count, but I'd love the old hatch. I know killers felt slighted when moris we're changed and it took forever for the hatch to get reworked, but I never really saw those two as equivalent in terms of strength and annoyance. Getting mori-tunneled out of games and then having to wait 15 minutes to play again was way worse than a 3 man hatch escape. And if it was a four man hatch escape, well all the gens got finished anyway, so who cares.
Tldr: I agree. Bring the old hatch back.
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Partially, I would say.
I am all in for reversions, but the hatch is a complicated matter.
Perhaps there is a healthy mix to be found between old and new.
And PLEASE revert its visual. The current one is ugly af.
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Hatch should spawn if everyone is slugged and no one has a way to stand back up, outside of that, no.
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you want Franklin's to become meta again?
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That's still skipping the objective (exit gates) and shouldn't be a thing. Endgame perks exist, and just because the gens are done does not mean the survivors have won the match or deserve a free hatch escape.
Hatch exists because it has to exist for the last survivor as a way of bringing the match to an end and not encouraging them to just hide until the killer finds them since they most likely won't be able to finish the gens at that point anyway. It doesn't need to be available as an escape option for anything beyond that.
What I would agree with is key addons receiving some changes to be more useful (other than blood amber) and/or keys possibly even getting a secondary function without addons to make them a bit more appealing.
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Yeah no
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I don't think Keys and Moris are each other's equivalent, to be honest.
I think a Mori's equivalent is the possibility (or lack of possibility) of a survivor keeping a killer at bay for an extended period of time. If such thing exists in-game, then it is perfectly okay for Moris to be as powerful as they were.
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I disagree
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Hatch shouldn't ever allow multiple survivors to escape; it's the last resort for the final survivor who has little hope of opening the exit gates (especially against high-mobility killers).
However, I do wish they'd change its location spawned once the gens were done - not once there's only one survivor left in the trial. this would at least give the final survivor a bit more of a chance of finding it.
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Because you are actually wrong. You did NOT have to do the objectives. My swf and I use to routinely use key hatch combo to get people out without doing all the gens. one person brings key and an outdoor map, one person brings hatch at killer shack. we'd go in, drop the key where hatch spawns, do the minimum gens (even less if one of us three or the random died) and bounce without the killer having a clue what happened
It was a ridiculous and toxic set up. I DO agree keys are ######### useless now. I used to sweat if I saw them in lobby as killer. Now I prefer the survivors bring a key. I'd rather that useless trash come into my game than a medkit or toolbox that can actually impact things.
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If it's more difficult for killers it's not coming back. Ever.
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Moris and keys are both garbage now. A mori only works on death hook. At BEST it may stop a sabo/blind but franky if you're at the point youve double hooked people you are probably doing well enough thats not an issue. Very rarely does that work on good killers anyway. At WORST I've stopped doing moris because it wastes so much time for the animation that there are better things I could be doing. SOMETIMES the mori can help stop a save at best. I am no longer spending my BP on moris. Total waste of bp
Keys are trash period. point blank. if killer finds hatch the odds of you getting to it before he kills you AND holding the action button is so much lower than you just opening the door its laughable. Only time ive run keys is for the aura reading and thats trash too. I'd take a purple or green toolbox/medkit over a red key EVERY time. I've also stopped spending BP on keys. Because once again, total waste of bp.
Put it this way: I wouldn't spend my hard earned BP on keys OR moris even if their price was lowered down to green instead of red. Trash items. I don't even understand what skill level players have to be at to care about these things anymore.
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Absolutely not….
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Then this is where we diverge. I don't really see it that way.
I believe Moris are slightly different than Keys because they can be used faster. If all 4 survivors are still alive, the use of a key would have required all 5 gens to be repaired. A Mori, in the other hand, requires you to down a Survivor twice. The required actions to use a key and the amount of people who will benefit from its use varies, while Moris always retain the same levels.
And yes, a good Survivor can keep a killer at the bay for a good period of time, but it should be a bit longer for Moris to exist without problems.
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Anything that would allow multiple survs to escape in the middle of a match is a big fat hell no.
The hatch change is one of the best and most justified changes made since I started playing DBD.
The old system was the motivation for the only times I've ever immediately targeted and tunneled people out: seeing a key in the lobby.
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Hahahaha, good one buddy, keep the jokes coming : D
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Just a note, Franklin's was changed because of the Nemesis vaccines and Franklin's made it so you could delete vaccines from the game before they were used. They didn't like that interaction so they changed Franklin's. Keys were then changed to require charges to open the Hatch because people wanted to use Franklin's to stop people from using keys on the Hatch.
I think Hatch right now is good although I miss the ability to find it early to remember where it is. I wish they could have just made it so keys couldn't open the Hatch until EGC instead of just not spawning it.
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Yeah, I remember when there was outcry because they changed to Moris to only working on death hook (making them pretty much only entertainment, or at the exit gate), but waited months to address hatch.
Having 3-4 survs just dip through the hatch in the middle of a winnable game was...not amusing.
I actually think the old mechanic encouraged tunneling and camping, because if you played "fairly" and evenly distributed hooks, you could have 8 hooks and still lose 4 survs though the hatch mid match (with three gens left). There was a high level of motivation to keep the number of living survs below the number of remaining gens, and once a couple a gen or two popped, you pretty much had to start removing people.
I didn't play yet when you could mori someone on their first down, but I bet that was a hoot.
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No.
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That's right; I've watched some vids of those crazy loops. Things were really kinda wild back then, not sure why anyone would actually want to go back to that. Didn't BNPs also finish gens instantly?
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A full revert should not happen. I don't need matches that result in survivors three genning themselves, letting someone die and they get a 3 man escape.
That said I would not be against hatch spawning sometime after all gens being done.
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Insta-Gen BNPs did exist, but it is a very old feature. Patch 1.5.3 removed it, replacing it with a different BNP.
Later, Patch 2.1.0 added the BNPs we now know.
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I bet. With the mountain of info/vids on strats, techs and exploits so available now, going back would likely be a very different (and horrible) experience for all involved.
I watched a vid the other day of some peeps running a six year old build together (it was a new vid, so must have been archived on a local network), and it was something else, for sure.
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yes im aware. I'm agreeing with OP that they need a rework because they suck now. I wouldn't be saying how bad they are now if I didn't agree they need a rework. Infer from context next time.
Yes. I'm aware of how they used to work. I described in detail how my squad used to abuse keys. Did you just not read the entire post or not understand it? How do you think my swf was getting out without doing gens? By baking a pie over the campfire or something? By using the old key mechanics, sir, not magically.
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I would sooner choke on a ham sandwich than allow either the old hatch or old keys back.
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Correct. My reaction to the discussion concerning them needing a rework was to agree because they are horrible now. That is such a small leap of logic doesn't quite need a parachute.
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