When is camping/tunneling ACTUALLY going to be addressed?
Out of 10 matches today, 7 killers were campers/tunnelers, the patch that was supposed to help with that just made it worst. Is easier for killers to camp now, what are the devs thinking?
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What are you talking about they have solutions
Perks. Because it's such an amazing idea
:)
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Are we still forgetting that while ridiculous, tunneling and camping are legitimate strategies, as mentioned by BHVR multiple times? Same reason you can't report people for it.
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The issue I've found is punishing campers / tunnelers also punishes more "legit" strategies. I mean if sitting next to the hook for a certain amount of time is punished then survivors can bomb rush the hook and punish the killer for trying to down them, if focusing on the most recently hooked survivor is punished then people can make idiotic plays and still come out on top so long as they already have went down.
Also I say more "legit" because they still are legit strategies, just annoying and toxic most of the time.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
Great. They called them legitimate strategies. What on earth does that change?
it's clear that pretty much every survivor player hates these strategies. For the most obvious reasons. They are so unfun to go against, and are simply very unhealthy for the game. And it's perfectly backed up by the fact that the average killer queue time is a bit problematic at the moment. The game simply doesn't have enough survivor players.
So ignoring these complaints is not going to do you any favor. BHVR can call them legitimate as often as they want to, it won't change the fact that they are insanely frustrating to go against, are extremely unhealthy for the game, and are clearly driving too many survivor players away from the game.
Of course the claims of this game dying are beyond exaggerated. But it still isn't good for the game at the moment, to have a clear imbalance of players.
I would also guess the reason they said that camping and tunneling were legitimate strategies is because people reported killers for those strategies. So that it doesn't even really have to do with whether they are good for the game or not.
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They also mentioned that it’s unfair for players to be quickly forced out of a match via those strategies.
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I don't think survivors are ready for the repercussions of what's being asked for.
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There's nothing unfair about it. The game is an asymmetrical elimination game. Playing survivor means you are on the team that is getting eliminated.
Tunneling and camping are both valid tactics with the only actual problem is face camping which is hard to address due to many counters to it affect normal gameplay negatively.
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Can you provide a link to where they said that?
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It's cause they forgot the fact that Killers aren't rewarded for Kicking Gens (with out Gen regression perks)and even then with the 10 extra charges it takes to complete a Gen it makes regressing the Gen take even longer
I recently watched a video looking at all of the regressing perks VS progression and it screamed that Gen regression was forgotten about
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It absolutely sucks to be tunneled out, but sometimes that's just how it is.
And unfortunately at higher levels, sometimes a focused tunnel at some point in the match is just necessary to win, as is proxy camping. Now if there were a workable solution to prevent those that didn't break other parts of the game (and none are evident), you'd have to rebalance killer to make other aspects of their kit even stronger.
And while that would keep higher level play balanced, it would create perhaps bigger balancing issues at low levels.
And I'm also not sold on the notion that it's appreciably easier to tunnel/camp now than before. Marginally, yeah, but it's not like some kind of switch was flipped where is suddenly became super easy.
People who tunneled and camped before continued, people who didn't probably didn't start. Now it is possible that many of those new killers who defected to killer from survivor are doing these things at a higher rate, because tbh, they often feel like the obvious/easy thing to do when you're first starting out.
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Give killers a perk where your first kick after hooking a different survivor instantly regresses an entire gen if it's more than 32m away
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Beside the fact these are valid tactics*, most of the time they are a self-inflicted wound. When I play survivor, not even 1 game over 10 has a mindless camp/tunnel killer. However the number of survivors making unsafe unhooks, healing at the worst possible spot, keeping on gens instead of healing or going to safety when the killer comes, ignoring hooks until the last limit to eat a hook state when the killer punishes it ... is staggering. The killer isn't a babysitter : choices have consequences.
*) although not always the best choice, there are many situations where they are.
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Killers also hate body blocking, flashlights, pallet saves, DS, hook sabotage, etc. When are we going to address those?
Very unfun to go against, results in total denial of hooks, preventing the killer from acheiving their main objective.
This is a pvp game, your not supposed to enjoy it when the other side win. Your supposed to play well enough that they don't.
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to some extent... never.
Because in my experience people use the word "camping" and "tunneling" for such a large variety of situations, which has nothing to do with either, that it will NEVER be addressed in any way, unless they remove the killer from the map or make a rule about killers should run away from survivors and not after them :))
My point is, that probably you call out camping and tunneling far too often than when it really is an issue. You know... cry wolf too many times.... So yeah in some ways depending on your perspective, it will never be "fixed"
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Your logic has flaws, one prevents people from playing the game at all (camping and tunneling) and yours is a mild inconvenience, but the fun part in most cases you can punish the survivors for it.
With the new anti camp perk you can punish finally. But its still a band aid fix...
You can bring this argument how much you want, but enjoy your long killer queues. Also instead of justifiyng such tactics, maybe for the fun for both sides, ask for... actually fun for both sides?
It is actually possible. *Shrug*
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Too many would cry, complain and threaten to never play again.
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You say these killers are "camping and tunneling" yet provide no context. What exactly is camping and tunneling to you?
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DS?
You're still crying about DS?
It's THE most situational perk, the easiest to counterplay, and it got gutted by 50% last patch, and you're still upset that you can't just faceplant your way into a perk that requires your explicit cooperation to trigger without facing consequences for it?
Why would you make some kind of argument about parity and then toss in such a terrible complaint?
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You aren't being prevented from playing game just because you got tunneled or camped out of a single match.
It's a PvP game. Boths sides have access to tools that the other side doesn't enjoy. I can't think of many killers that enjoy being flashlight blinded when picking up a survivor or pallet stunned during a chase. Killer's main goal is to kill you. If they want to focus you out first, that is perfectly valid. If they want prevent your teammates from rescuing you off hook, that is also valid.
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They're unfair you just don't want to admit that you win matches because of using dirty tactics instead winning skillfully. I admit that I only win some games because of doing that and it can be even unfun for killer. To way solve these tactics would be make them less effective and give killers rewards if they play more fair way. BBQ and corrupt should be basekit.
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You only consider them dirty, because you personally don't like them. There's nothing wrong, dirty, bad, etc about tunneling or camping. Only facecamping is an actual issue, because the killer really isn't playing the game.
There's also nothing unskillful about it. A tunneled survivor can still outplay in chases and make the tunnel not worth the effort. Camping as a means to defend the objectives (such as nearby gens, lit hex totem, preventing unhook was visible survivors) is paying attention to the game and reacting on it. Seeing a survivor 5-10 seconds away from dying on hook, the smart play is to force them to die on hook and prevent any unhooks. Survivors had the chance for the save and I'm capitalizing on their failure to do so.
The idea that killers should play less optimally so survivors can have more fun is just a wrong mindset to have. Same with expecting survivors to play less optimally for the killer's fun. If you want to play a game where both sides are doing their best to ensure a fun environment for both sides, you have the casual KYF lobby where you can set up agreed upon rules.
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When is Gen rushing, Teabagging and Clicky clicky going to be adressed?
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Hopefully it can't be reported, imagine if it was, survs will report any killer they don't like anyway.
Survs are huge flamers, they victimize themselves all day whenever the killer is toxic or not, this is NEVER ENDING !
This is why i absolutely don't care about their complains, big bunch of hypocrites.
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What are you thinking? What are your suggestions for eliminating camping/tunneling from the game?
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Reassurance helps with camping, but just makes people playing 'for kills' resort to insta tunneling unhooked survivors (through BT/OTR/etc).
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Reassurance. Buy it. Very pay to win.
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The less a killer camps and tunnels, the less such counter measures would affect him. It's quite simple.
Killers got a bunch of buffs that helped them in general, making their normal gameplay also more viable. Tunneling and camping are incredibly unhealthy and unfun strategies. No matter if someone calls them fair or not. They are obviously a constant frustration for survivor players, and it's showing now in particular, with the noticeable killer queue times increase.
So something needs to be done. There are enough ways to nerf camping while barely affecting normal playing killers. Even if they get affected a tiny bit, you know in those rare situations people can come up with, as people have when arguing that Reassurance needs to be nerfed, then that's not such a big deal either. Killers just received a bunch of buffs already. Survivors now need something in return.
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Gen rushing got nerfed last patch, clicking your flash light also got nerfed recently. I wouldn't be surprised if tea bagging actually got the same treatment as clicking the flash light.
Can we talk about camping and tunneling now Mr. Killer main?
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What about times when camping is the valid strat like hooking in the middle of a 3 Gen defense for combo pressure or at end game when the only thing to do is camp.
This does help against face campers but also hurts those who only camp during the valid times.
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That doesn't mean they can't nerf their effectiveness.
All that means is that they acknowledged their existance and allow them, making them unreportable.
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Yeah, me and my friends have been having an awful time since the patch dropped.
Camp, tunnel, stacked slowdowns, ect ect
Can't say we've been having much fun
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Sadly they can't balance around fun because fun for one isn't for another.....Bully Squads have fun bullying and tormenting the killer but the killer doesn't find it fun while a killer could have fun being as sweaty and try hard as possible but the survivors may not find that fun..... unfortunately they have to balance around just balance fixes and that's it
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Some time between when the realms freeze over and never, so you best learn to be patient.
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You've got perks on top of Endurance and Haste base.
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They did address it last patch, nerfed DS to 3 seconds with no end game value.
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Camping is now heavy countered with the new perk "Reassurance" that will release with Rebecca in the Project W chapter. However, I expect it will be nerfed because killers will complain about how abusable it is, ie, survivors can pause the struggle timer indefinitely, which punishes camping by forcing a killer to target someone else. Survivors are legitimately so upset about the last chapter changing around all their major perks, that they are quitting nearly every match in game, but I have a feeling the killer complaint about reassurance preventing camping will be addressed long before any of these complaints. I expect they'll change the perk to give it charges, significantly increase the timer, deactivate end-game, etc. It'll get the DS treatment.
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Believe it or not, they can actually balance around fun. There's a pretty clear line about what isn't fun. Tunneling isn't fun. Killers feel like they have to tunnel and survivors feel like they have to bring second-chance perks. Make changes that deincentivise tunneling and suddenly the game is more fun in a way that still keeps a valid strategy valid.
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You can't be serious...
As a killer main who recently started playing survivor...Sure there is time for tunneling and camping. Like...1-2 gens left maybe.
But if someone is getting tunneled out of the game at the very beginning then it's a gg pretty much. Just because game is asymmetrical doesn't mean it should be unfair. No way a 3man team will do 4-5 gens at that point.
Personally I never tunnel or camp unless someone is really asking for it. I don't find it fun to make the match unfair and miserable for the other side. Sadly, based on my experience when playing survivor, many people do.
People get tunneled out at the beginning of the game. Killers slugging at 4 gens while proxy camping...it's really sad to see.
As much as face camping can be easily dealt with, slugging and tunneling from the start is game over.
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Camping and tunneling is fundamentally built into the game and is the only way for the majority of the roster to win. And now they can do it with impunity, so they will.
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“The game is an asymmetrical elimination game.”
^ Incorrect.
“Playing survivor means you are on the team that is getting eliminated.”
^ Survivors aren’t fated to lose. In any case, quite irrespective of whatever you believe, BHVR made public statements as I described.
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Except that, as always, tunneling and camping aren't even remotely close or equal to what all of those things are. If you bodyblock, use flashlights or pallets to save, have DS (that has been gutted) or sabo hooks (do people still do that?), you are not PREVENTING the killer from playing. If you get facecamped, what do you do? You stare at the screen. If you get tunneled and chased until the end of the world as we know it, what do you do? Is the game a running simulator?
Taking a hit to protect a survivor is a strategy. Tunneling and camping are not. They are just the equivalent of "I'll do whatever is easier and takes no effort". Just like people who only play in full SWFs.
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If the survivor team is unable to get more than 1 gen done by the time you kill someone, they aren't playing well. It's not difficult to extend the first chase where a gen or two has popped even with the extra 10 seconds. Most maps have plenty of resources.
And no it does not matter how many gens are left. Taking advantage of strategy to put yourself in a better spot can be done at any point. If I have a survivor on death hook and the survivor team has only gotten 1 gen done, I'm not just going to let that survivor live out of "fairness" if I'm playing to win. Likewise if the survivor I hooked is nearby gens to defend, I'm not just going to the otherside of the map away from the objectives just to be nice.
I play a lot of survivor, more than killer atm. While it can be frustrating to be tunneled out of a camp or left to die on a hook, it's simply just how the game is. You have 2 individual hook states for a reason and 3 teammates. It's up to you and your team to try force the killer to spread hook states around. The amount of times on both sides where a teammate unhooks a survivor and then just leaves them for the killer to easily go after is way too common.
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There's nothing incorrect about that. The killer eliminates survivors by sacrificing them. The survivor is the only team that gets eliminated throughout the game. This is nothing about "survivors are fated to lose". It's just simply what the game is. If you don't want to be eliminated you can play killer, because that is the side that cannot be eliminated.
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being on a hook is not playing the game so knock that garbage off. if someone came up to me playing a game and took my controller away for 60 seconds am i still playing the game when i can't control it? or better yet what if i was allowed to press a button on another device that had 3 chances to work with a 4% success rate that will give me my controller back. but if all 3 fail then i have to wait for someone to come and take the controller back and give it to me within 60 seconds or my game turns off and i have to start the game back up and restart on the level i was on.
im sure you'll say it's not the same.
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Explain how being on a hook is not part of the normal gameplay loop and maybe someone will agree.
People literally can't handle/understandb the basic gameplay loop.
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literally just explained but yeah just ignore it huh? if you can't be bothered to actually read my post then don't expect me to read any of yours.
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Flawed reasoning. If someone blocked you in a corner for the entirety of the match, back when Twins could do it, you were still inside the match. Didn't mean you were still playing it. But I am used to these forums, where there will always be people who, in spite of common sense, will think of their ideas as right. I'll try to elaborate this further, should be simple enough to understand:
The game is, first and foremost, not free. So I expect to be able to play entirely something I paid for. With that out of the way, let's move to the main stuff:
Survivor gameplay is, or at least is intended to be about
- Being chased;
- Unhooking;
- Reparing gens;
- Healing yourself or others.
These are the main things, with some extras along the way (totems, saves). If you get to play only ONE of those things, you ARE NOT being allowed to play. Think of it along these lines. Someone who cheats is technically still playing the game and, probably, winning. Does it mean he wins because he deserves to? Is it really him playing, or is it something else doing it in his place? Is he playing the game, or using something to make an advantage for himself AND ruining the fun of others? Videogames are meant to be fun, for both sides. You can win, you can lose, but you should BE ABLE TO ENJOY IT, whatever the case. When one side enjoys it and the other does not, when one side only cares about winning and refuses to consider the bigger picture (balacing the experience for both sides, in this case), it's usually not called a videogame, but war.
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this^
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Your post is not grounded in reality or the confines of the game.
I'd certainly be interested to see your breakdown of the various phases/steps involved in survivor gameplay.
We can definitely have this discussion if you want - I certainly read your post.
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