Nurse Mains: Just Stop.
Comments
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I think it’s interesting no one complaining about Nurse ever has an actual answer for why survivors perform evenly against her if the skill matchup is even, and there’s no other extraneous factors that would obviously distort it (eg, a map that favors one side, people not trying, meme builds vs serious builds, etc).
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Please clarify “perform evenly against her”. What are the numbers and sources?
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How about stop showing the survivor rule book and just deal with it you salty survivors just want the ruin the fun of killer mains look at some videos for tips how to play against nurse before you start complaining your rule book means nothing to us
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Matches where very good players are playing against each other result in an average of 2K+2E, both in and out of comp DBD. Tournament VODs are available publicly on Twitch and YouTube. Non-comp DBD examples include non-comp KYFs between very good players, and pub lobby games where very good players ended up happening to get other very good players, which is pretty rare. Both of these can be found on YouTube. For instance, SupaAlf MMR testing day 3 (when even matches were prioritized over queue time), him against extremely good players/partial comp player (eg, 2 of them are comp) lobbies in pub lobbies (thus no comp rules or anything), Ayrun and other similarly extremely good survivors playing against great Nurses occasionally, etc. I can find the specific video examples once I’m home.
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DCing against nurse is counter-productive. The devs said DCs don't count as kills, so DCing helps keep her killrates low, which in turn decreases the chances of her getting any sort of rework that folks who DC want. At least try against her, even if death is inevitable.
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So, videos that people post. Which is not an objective, balanced sample. By definition many videos are posted because someone considers them special enough to be shared. Also, tournament survivor teams will roughly be equivalent to the best swf players in the game. So lets be fair… I’ll concede that the best players in the game in a swf can sometimes beat a nurse. Does that really mean that Nurse isn’t broken? I’m a data analyst for my day job. Official data on nurse win rates and/or something similar is what I’m talking about. Some example videos where people manage to beat a nurse doesn’t work.
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the reason survs dont like nurse is shes the one in control in chase, meaning she gets the hit unless she misplays, instead of survs getting to just never get hit if theyre good.
a perfect nurse gets every hit, a perfect survivor never gets hit, when they vs its balanced.
survivors equal skill to the nurse theyre facing will generally have a balanced game.
the only thing about nurse thats unbalanced are; blink hits being basic attacks, that should change (no more starstruck nurse, haunted, devour, all the exposed perks would be no longer usable on nurse). and the quality of her addons, she should have an addon pass to have every addon do something different (blink hits being specials will allow that to happen), like how the newer killers and newly reworked killers have no two addons do the same thing but with different numbers.
if you consistently lose to nurse, its not nurse being op, its a matchmaking issue.
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Lol. “Your rule book means nothing to us”. Ok drama queen. Maybe start by figuring out punctuation.
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Same argument, different words. The work of constant nurse defenders who aren't ready to see her get some form of a nerf because she's ridiculous regardless of whether or not you say " Git gud " In nicer, more illusive terms, so i'll just, i dunno....state the obvious so that it shuts down this topic.
You can't really...play AROUND her power, that's her problem. Unless any of you are literal superhuman beings who think beyond the speed of sound itself, you couldn't tell me you can predict where a nurse is going to blink, when they're going to do it and how far they might go. That's what makes the most unpredictable, nigh-impossible killer to stop. I can list a few killers who are easy to telegraph, like Huntress, Pyramid head, Dead Slinger, Nemesis, Trickster; y'know the one thing they all have in common? While their attacks are versatile, They're all L I N E A R Meaning you can learn to play around their main powers and render them (For the most part.) Kinda useless.
You can't do that with nurse, Nurse is FAR from linear; she's so versatile, the amount of things she could do with her power is actually over the top, whether it's baiting a survivor into an Early DH, Baiting them into trying to spin said killer, herding them in one direction or into a dead zone; she has the ability to do that and that's what makes HER power oppressive and impossible to predict. The ONLY counter-play, i've seen killers try to hide behind is "Be less predictable." Kinda hard to do if you can't even telegraph her moves so you can react to her plays. Her blinks are quite literally in an instant, and no one can pre-emptively assume she's going to teleport (relating to my first point made) and spin suddenly, no one here is superhuman or has god level feats; we're not goku, we don't move at light speed.
I'm sure you all understand this quite well but refuse to take the fact that at the VERY LEAST, she need a rework or some sort of change so that her power isn't downright oppressive in the hands of a player who understands her power ( And isn't downright useless in the hand of those who dont.)
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Well where's your nurse videos trouncing survivors? since it's "easy" as you say, at least provide some evidence if you're going through all the trouble of starting a thread, I haven't seen a single person complaining about nurse post any sort of video showing their gameplay as her and why its too easy, they always come here and cry that shes broken but as soon as you ask for their gameplay as her suddenly they've taken a vow of silence
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Who said you were my grammar teacher nobody. If you want this killer to be nerfed good luck because it won’t happen you survivor toxic mains are never happy like we just got a perk rework yet again you want more to so we don’t have fun and honestly just ungrateful
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Can't lose? Dude, I'm a nurse main with over 1k hours and I lose all the time. Just because you lose to nurse all the time doesn't mean others can't outplay her.
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Lord… I hope you will understand that your request is just ridiculous and I will not be providing videos. What makes the request even sillier is that I already said that a selection of videos isn’t proof. Let’s see data on nurse win rates at various levels.
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“You survivor toxic mains”. And you want me to be grateful for the rework that totally ruined survivor solo queue play… lol. Sorry buddy but you will be ignored.
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Maybe one day people will understand how burden of proof works and what asking for evidence of absence is.
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What point are you trying to make here? We are still talking about comp players that are in the top 0.01% of players, it's just not relevant when measuring Nurse in your average public match.
Does Oracle even play DbD anymore?
Those matches are from ages ago. We now have a different (easier) Nurse in a different (easier for killers) game.
Is it just a coincidence that it took a Nurse to stop Hens' 4E streak at 49? There is a very real possibility that that Nurse killed the last 40 survivors she went up against before that game, moreso than with any other killer.
You talking about bias is laughable. You are a Nurse main. You're as biased as they come.
Nurse is not balanced. People will not stop calling for nerfs, regardless of how much you try to defend your precious main.
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What's funny is you think i don't think nurse needs to be changed. I think she needs a complete rework. But the reality is there are 2 possible statements that can be made:
- You balance the game around high level players.
- You balance the game around average level players.
If you balance the game around high level players, then we need to significantly nerf survivors, because unless you are playing nurse and arguably blight you don't stand a chance at a high level. Nurse is the only one who is really capable of standing with the best of the best survivors, and even then it is an uphill battle. So let's say it works off of like percentages. The strength of a high level survivor team is 100% and the strength of a god nurse is 99%. The strength of most killers when played at a high level is 50%. We need to either buff those killers to be in the 90% range, or nerf the survivors to be in the 50% range, and then also rework nurse to be in the 50% range.
If you balance the game around average level players, then god tier SWF and god tier nurses are fine, because average survivors are dying at high rates to pig and the average nurse player is usually below a 50% kill rate. So the game is fine then. Because those god tier nurses and survivors are extremely rare, and we don't want to balance around them because they are outliers.
Obviously i don't agree with statement number 2. No serious multiplayer game worth anything does that. You always balance around high level players while doing things to keep the game healthy for average players. For example, if something is OP at a lower level, but UP at a high level, you don't just blanket buff that thing, you probably carefully rework what makes them weak, while tweaking what makes them strong to low level players.
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Can we apply the "theyre proven theyre the best and strongest and thus need nerfs"-logic to sirvivors too or is that only applicable to killers?
For better or worse, all killers are weighted against the only survivor basekit that, like the nurse, seems to be split into baby survs and god survs.
Yet survivor doesnt get balanced around those good survivors.
This community somehow cant judge both sides equally it seems. And those anti nurse crusaders suffer the most from this perceptive error.
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- Nurse isn't difficult to master.
- Her range addons are getting unbugged.
- Her only reasonable nerf is reducing the strength of the recharge addons or deleting them.
The good nurses that people complain about are using the two addons above.
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No one thinks SWF is balanced. Everyone thinks it is just as busted as Nurse. Please, let's get swf nerfed too.
Please don't reply that solo survivor and swf is the same. It isn't. Adding voice comms changes it into a completely different game, just as choosing nurse over other killers does.
Like it or not, a 4v1 game can never be truly balanced, but the devs can do a much better job than this. In my thousands of hours as killer at top mmr i have only faced a handful of true tournament level swfs. Anything less than that can be dealt with by any killer if you are good enough. In my thousands of hours as solo survivor I have faced hundred, possibly thousands of Nurses.
Yes, I will take those handful of losses as killer knowing winning the game probably won't happen against four tournament level players with no shame (and they do have no shame if they are queueing for a public game on comms when they know how good they are). Just nerf nurse so the people who player her don’t get free wins in 95%+ of their games.
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Every post I see from you in Nurse threads appear to defend her and you have Nurse as your avatar. Until now it was a reasonable assumption for me to make.
It's hard to have a discussion about balancing the game when so many aspects of it are unbalanced.
- Killers are unbalanced. There is a pretty large spread in power between killers, that can be seen on every tier list out there. I want the highest tier killers nerfed because then it becomes possible or much easier to make broad changes that could buff or nerf all killers. "Oh we can't make small multi-floor maps like Midwich because Nurse and Doctor stomp there." How many ideas for perks have probably gotten shelved just because Nurse and Blight exist. I'm surprised Awakened Awareness is coming, it's going to be massive for slugging Nurses.
- Survivors are unbalanced. The divide between SoloQ and SWF is massive. I know SWF can't be nerfed but SoloQ could certainly get some buffs that could close the gap. Stuff like if someone is on the hook a SoloQ gets to see the aura of all other survivors once every 10 seconds. Or if they're injured the can reveal their aura to other survivors with a chime sound to ask for a heal. Little things that could make them feel like not such helpless victim waiting to be slaughtered in the fog.
- I remember seeing stats (I can't find the source) that stated that over half of the survivor player base was SoloQs and less than 15% of survivors are in 4 man SWFs. It doesn't make sense to balance the game around high level SWFs if it's going to alienate over half the survivor player base. Especially when the game does nothing to warn you about the bad times to be had in SoloQ while doing nothing to party you up with people for more than one game.
- Maps are unbalanced. For some killer seeing certain maps has to be deflating before the game even begins. Maps with 8 lockers playing Dredge. Most M1 killers on Cowshed. Trapper on Eyrie. On the other hand many killers may be delighted to be sent to Shelter Woods, Ormond, Midwich or Sanctum of Wrath.
- This is probably the biggest reason I want Nurse nerfed. If she didn't exist, then we could see more small multi-floor maps like Midwich and Hawkins where she can crack them open like a can and feast on the survivor sardines inside. Instead we keep getting boring one floor sprawling huge maps like Haddonfield and Eyrie of Crows that really no killer enjoys.
- Matchmaking is unbalanced. I think I saved the worst for last here. Probably the least balanced thing you could ask DbD to provide you with is a group of SoloQ survivors. It far too often spews out groups with 1 or 2 good survivors paired with 2 or 3 soon-to-be-mashed potatoes. Any half decent killer doesn't face competition from groups like this. These bad crew compositions make the divide between SWF and SoloQ even worse.
This is why in DbD I would rather see these aspects balanced in their own groups. Killers balanced with their fellow killers, the gap between SWF and SoloQ closed and maps more standardized. This would also lead to more reliable data for BHVR to make decisions with.
Maybe then it would be easier to decide whether to balance between high level players or average players.
The average Nurse has a less than 50% kill rate according to official statistics is because she has the highest DC rate in the game.
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Good to know having a Nurse pfp and not wanting Nurse's base-kit nerfed means someone is a Nurse defender/enthusiast, even though they've never invested more than 8 hours on her
Post edited by ThatOneDemoPlayer on7 -
Please enlighten me to the current mechanical differences between the survivor character used by "solo" and "swf"
Actually. I'm among the people who dont want to nerf swf. Because you cant without hurting "solo"; same character, remember?
The thing that I'm against is the bias displayed by the community concerning balance. We have to buff survivors to get closer to swf because the other way doesnt work, but everyone is crusading against those few killers who can keep up with the top potential of survivors, which we cant nerf, instead of bringing killers up ro par.
To put things into perspective: To balance the solo-swf gapclosing infoflood (current action,current location, maybe a ping tool etc) we would have to buff all killers so that a post-patch D tier would be A-B in the current setup. And i'm just talking about the special abilities. Nurse wouldnt even need to be touched.
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Just because high level survivors aren't common doesn't mean they shouldn't be nerfed. You still fail to address exactly what i said. Either you balance around high level players or you don't, which one is it? Tell me which one you think is the right way to balance the game.
If you want to go the "common" route. How about we create a new killer offering that does the following:
- All survivors are permanently exposed.
- The killer moves at 300% movement speed.
- The aura of all survivors is permanently revealed.
- The killer is able to immediately mori all survivors.
Now let's make the rarity of that offering to appear be 1%. This means you would see this offering roughly once every 100 games.
Is this offering balanced? After all, you only see it 1 out of every 100 games you play statistically speaking. If the average game lasts about 7 minutes, then you only see it for 1 game out of every nearly 12 hours you play the game.
That's pretty fair now right?
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You obviously never read my post. If you did you would obviously see I want the game to be balanced to be more consistent and not a random shitshow.
I never said high level survivors shouldn't be nerfed, I just said SWF can't be nerfed, it's literally not even feasible because the benefits SWFs get are derived from Discord. That's why I suggest SoloQ buffs to try to balance survivors, because BHVR has much more control over that.
What possessed you to come up with such a ridiculous offering is beyond me. It's almost like you're trying to make me agree with it so then you can call me an idiot. Well I'm not falling for that.
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It's not ridiculous at all, if you're gonna have the nerve to call something easy that a lot of people would disagree with then there shouldn't be any problem proving it unless you're trash with her and she's not as easy as you're coming off which I assume is probably the case
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I'm sorry but what
Like ????
I don't even know what to say, like, you're either lying about 'losing all the time' or about having 'over 1000 hours on nurse' otherwise I don't see how you losing consistently on her is even remotely possible
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But she should be all powerful when going against scrubs that refuse to learn and adapt. It is stupid to expect a scrub to stand equally versus an experienced player. Nurse versus equally good SWF is balanced, so the issue is not Nurse but the players that publicly admit that they give up and DC everytime they see her instead of giving their best to develop some skills.
Just because you have hours doesn't mean you have reached the top. I have over 5K on CSGO, does that mean i'm in the same league as Pro Players ? ofc not. It is the mentality that need to change. As long you give up and DC and refuse to learn, then doesn't matter how many hours you have, you'll never develop any meaningful skill that make you compete in the same league as players that actually put in effort. To reach higher level and be more consistent you need to actively face players that are better than you and give your best each game (tryhard). So YES they are "Better" than you. and Again, Nurse is balanced, just not toward SoloQ, but toward SWFs as it should.
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All the time as in it happens, not really consistently. There are some maps where if you arent using range add ons, it takes the nurse forever to travel from 1 side to the other meaning you either play territorial and keep to one side of the map and those gens there better known as scummy, scummy, proxy camping. So playing fairly and without range add ons in a good portion of the maps means nurse is very likely to lose even if chases last 15 seconds from start to finish.
Some maps are straight up unfavorable for nurse such as treatment theatre where not only its extremely easy to break line of sight, you literally cant blink through a good portion of the map and those parts eat your blinks. This isnt a treatment theatre only thing either, a good many maps for some reason have those kind of unblinkable zones.
Also if you are playing nurse and are decent at it, after winning for a while you start getting survivors that know how to play against her. This isnt a sure thing because SBMM doesnt really work and you also get average survivors and potatoes but the average survivor you get for sure gets better.
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Ofc same argument, because it is a skill issue.
You say that you can't play around her powers, but good players DO play around her powers. So why won't you take the advice that we keep preaching and start putting the same effort as them.
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And i still disagree. I said those are unfavorable if you play fair.
You dont have to play fair when you get those maps.
I still play and do fine in those maps, without add ons. You just have to adjust your playstyle. Expecting to play the same way in all maps is kinda insane.
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That's not just a good team. That is basically the best DbD team to ever play in public matches and easily in the top 0.01% of teams. Seriously can you even find another team that use a minimap, call out everything and sweat that hard in public matches?
I reversed the situation, where instead of the best SWF, it is the best Nurse.
That's not just a good Nurse. That is basically the best DbD Nurse to ever play in public matches and easily in the top 0.01% of Nurses. Seriously can you even find another Nurse that play in high level comp and sweat that hard in public matches?
Doesn't matter if currently they still play or not since the vid is when they used to play. Also that Nurse doesn't magically become fodder just because her team is gone.
Old vid true, but same Nurse as today (difference is bugs). but all is compensated due to the lack of communication, high ping and not the whole survivors sweating their balls off, seems as a reasonable trade off tbh. Also even at that time, plebs were crying bout Nurse so :x.
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Okay i am going to comment here already before reading the next two pages of comments but your "solid and factual" argument gets disproven daily by good nurses also losing to good survivors.
And you will never convince me that it never happens.
Never use absolutes as arguments when they are so easily dismissed.
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Well where's your gameplay? If she's not difficult to master you must have a ton of good footage we'd all love to see, there's a reason why shes got such a low pick rate and kill rate and it's definitely not easy to master her otherwise new players would all pick nurse and just assume they were good with that killer because of how well they did but its quite the opposite and they get so frustrated they drop her all together and pick an easier killer to play and the stats do back that up with her low killrates, it's very likely that the nurse mains you do encounter are the ones carrying it to that point and if you only accounted for newer players itd be even lower of a kill rate, so explain how that translates to easy to master?
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Yes its agreeing with you if you cant read or comprehend. Games like you are decribing are a luxury, not a necessity. We dont need to keep these extra strong add ons just so you can enjoy your luxury, do we?
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I never said you have to camp or tunnel. Though focusing on 2, at most 3 survivors really helps with bigger maps.
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Oh, you mean the kill rates that BHVR admitted they are unable to actually aggregate correctly? That they are unable to keep contaminated from things like hook suicides? in regards to nurse, who nobody ever ever ever gives up against?
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SWF and high level survivors are a separate issue, not sure why you are bringing them up.
But the solution to SWF vs solo is a simple one. Create a separate queue that balances things differently. CS:GO has a mode where you get more money, and free armor each round which is distinctly different than the standard mode. DotA 2 has turbo mode which makes games faster and is distinctly different than the standard game. League of Legends, when they used to have 3v3 and dominion actually balanced the game differently, such that character abilities actually behaved differently in those modes if they were too overpowered or underpowered. They actually tweaked numbers and abilities to change them depending on the mode you play.
Do the same for SWF and solo. There is one queue for solo, which has faster gens, maybe Hex perks work like NOED, maybe there are more pallets. etc. Then have the SWF queue, where survivors maybe only get 2 perks each instead of 4, or the killer gets 6 perks, or the killer moves a bit faster, or gens are 2 minutes now, or there are less pallets. etc.
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Dude. The quote, in and of itself, is internally factual. Don't apply it to the game if you need help understanding what I'm saying.
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You’re still banging this drum?
Its not your opponents responsibility to make the game fun for you.
Nobody cares how you feel about losing or whether you respect your opponents.
Nurse is part of the game and yeah she is strong. Go to YouTube and watch some vids about playing against her. Or better yet play her yourself and learn what the tricks are.
You’ll soon see that while strong she can be outplayed just like any other killer.
Why is it everybody else’s responsibility to improve your game for you?
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I was trying to make the point that calling Hens' team merely "good" was disingenuous. Your average "good" team in DbD public matches doesn't use a minimap and most of the time aren't even a full SWF. Your average "good" team in DbD gets crushed by your average "good" Nurse.
I still don't understand what point you're trying to make.
You said:
Just because high level survivors aren't common doesn't mean they shouldn't be nerfed.
I responded to it.
I would love to see more modes in DbD as you suggest like separate modes for SWF and SoloQ. I even imagine a 2+2 mode which could be pretty neat.
Alas, that solution can't be that simple. After all, they still haven't implemented anything like it and it's been over 6 years.
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You're misunderstanding and/or misrepresenting what I said. Try reading the original post of the thread, I'm not going to summarize it for you here. And I'm not wasting time posting videos of my play that show nurse is broken because it's well known. If you think that's some form of proof that she isn't then fine... I'll have to live with that. lol. The only thing that will definitively PROVE whether she is or not is the actual data, analyzed correctly (various MMRs, accounting for quits, swfs, etc). Until then you just have nearly the entire community of survivors (4/5 of the dbd playing base) that say she's ridiculous but you won't accept it.
What's most aggravating is that I know that the majority of killers know it's true as well. But the vocal ones here defending nurse are the ones that either just want that gravy train to keep rolling or actually believe it's their amazing skill that gives them insane win rates and insane match speeds with nurse. If you're winning 90% of your games with nurse, grow up and realize it's not just you. And let's be clear, when accurately matched, win rates are supposed to be ~ 50%. If you genuinely think Nurse has 50% win rates across the board at various MMRs, then we're just at an impasse until we see well analyzed data. But my play experience, and that of the majority of survivors I have to assume, is that over the hundreds of times I've faced her in the past year, it's almost always a slaughter except for the small # of times it's a new nurse player.
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Yeah no, if you're good at nurse none of the things listed are a problem, and Lery's isn't that bad of a map at all considering the layout is fixed and rooms are wide. I would expect someone with that amount of hours to actually know what they're doing
Also "without range add-ons and without playing fairly" like "without the most busted add-ons she has she has to traverse some maps at the same pace as all other killers" like ??? what are you on about
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Not all survivors are prone to throwing tantrums like you. I suggest perhaps switching to a more relaxing game like civ if you are prone to anger from not getting a killer you like.
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Do you think they care? They just want to make Nurse a dead killer lol. Most of the people who make these kinds of threads come up with the most ridiculous threads imaginable I would hate to have them in charge of the balance of this game or it would be an absolute snoozefest. No fun allowed crowd.
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"All the time" isn't meant to be interpreted as "every match" but I easily lose 1 out of every 4 or 5 matches. At high MMR you run into good groups who know how to counter nurse quite often.
Then again, I'm not using range addons or Starstruck, because I don't think she needs them.
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Yes me who is the one complaining about my teammates killing themselves when we play nurse, is the one who is doing it
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Yeah same with survivors that just continue to escape, just play without perks and stuff man!
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That's a lot of losing
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Dominating other side completely is what both sides consider "fun".
To be clear I am not calling for any surv/killer nerfs.
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