Noob Thoughts: The Balance is a Joke, Right?
So I'm 30 hours into DbD and I thought I'd join what seems to be the true game: long rants about DbD.
So before I started playing I noticed lots of complaining between 'survivor mains' and 'killer mains' about the need to try the other side. So I thought as a new player I would give each side a go with no starting bias about who had the advantage.
I first played a series of games that I didn't track going back and forth just so I wasn't a complete noob. For reference I got the Trapper to bloodlevel 20, and Claudette to 30. As a further point of reference, I was enough of a noob that there were some maps that I hadn't even played yet. I decided to play 15 games as each and track the results (I also threw out any game where survivors were AFK or deliberately not playing).
I started with Trapper, build: Unrelenting (green), Thrill of the Hunt (yellow), Sloppy Butcher (green), No One Escapes Death (green) - makeshift wrap (common), trapper gloves (common) - offerings were just used to increase blood points
Results - average kill rate of 2.86, 67% of the time they didn't get the doors open. Not a single game did all four survivors manage to escape
Okay, I felt that a kill rate 2.86 was really high for a noob. Maybe Trapper is just overpowered? Nope, seems like everyone rates him one of the worst killers. Players I was going against? Yeah, there were some bad ones, but people who had far higher perks than me and obvious some of them were SWF. Am I some kind of natural savant at killer? Hardly, frequently my swings were just hitting empty air.
So let's go over to survivor and see how that worked out. Same as above, I threw out results if either a survivor or killer didn't play the game.
Results - Average kill rate of 3.33. Yikes, and of those games there was only a single time we all got out.
At this point I'm feeling that killers seem to have a pretty substantial advantage. But I decided to do one more test. I switched to Wraith, level 1, no add ons, only using the perk Bloodhound (to be clear, for all the games I played a base Wraith, no improvements)
Results - Average kill rate of 3.7. In ten games I got - 8 4k, 1 3k with a hatch escape, and only a single game were they got the doors open. In only two of the other games did they even get down to 1 gen.
Here's the kicker: In addition to being so new I was still getting lost, I was playing nice. I deliberately tried not to tunnel, after hooking a survivor I ran away from it like it was going to explode even if I knew others were in the area, and if I got off to a great start (multiple hooks before they even had a gen), I slowed down.
Noob verdict: The game is comically weighted towards the killer.
Now there is a couple of responses that might come to this:
1: My kill rate will drop when I get to 'high level MMR'.
Here's the thing, I'm not here saying I'm a great player. I'm new to the game, I should lose to players with a 1000 hours in the game (or a 100). But I'm mascaraing players who have more experience than I do.
2: I'm playing the 'easy' killers.
Yeah, sure, I imagine when I start trying Nurse there will be some comically embarrassing games, but easy should be about difficulty to learn the killer, now how much they butcher the survivor.
3: Survivors need to get good.
So there are a lot of answers to this, but I want to focus on one I haven't seen before. Killers don't need to get good. The game holds the killers hand in every way imaginable that it takes active effort to be bad.
Do you have to remember where the generators are? Nope.
Hooks? Nope, we'll tell you that.
Skills checks? Of course not.
Did something go wrong and you aren't sure where the noise came from? Oh, here's a visual icon as well.
Have trouble finding hiding survivors? Here are some perks that let you see them. Hah, of course we won't let the survivors know you have them.
Chases are another example of this. After you hit a survivor they get a speed boost. Cool, you can still run them down.
Oh, you lost sight of them? No problem, scratch marks.
No scratch marks? Don't worry, blood trail.
Oh, can't see the blood? We got you, we'll have them wine so loud you can't help but find them.
As a killer it feels like playing a child in basketball. You have to intentionally screw up sometimes to create the appearance that its actually competitive. As a survivor it feels like everyone on the team needs a perfect. Every mistake, missed skill check, mistimed vault/pallet, bad communication, has serious repercussions.
DbD has survived for a long time. It's a fun game with a cool theme. But a crazy design that things are so easy for the killer from the beginning while the survivors need to master multiple skills and, ideally, play in a group with chat.
Comments
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Yeah, that's pretty much the DbD "first 500 hours" experience. I've got nearly 200 hours into the game now, and same results : mostly 3Ks and 4Ks playing killer, mostly deaths as survivor.
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Any gameplay footage ?
Even on this forum, you are not going to convince hard survivors mains that Trapper and Wraith are too good bestie.
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So I'm 30 hours into DbD
I know it's hard to believe, but 30 hours are nothing in this game. You're playing with the noobest noobs you can get, and this game is incredibly tough for new survivors. When survivors actually know what they are doing they are much harder to kill than you expect.
In conclusion, it's early for you to have an idea of the balance of the game.
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The learning curves for survivor and killer are both exponential. Just in opposite directions; for killer the learning curve is very, very flat for a good long while - but the second you pass a certain point it turns into a wall - and then flattens out rather quickly for most killers. Survivors on the other hand kinda hit a wall of a learning curve when they start playing (and as far as I can tell many give up after ~50 hours of being stomped). Those who stick it out end up in a place where most killers can't do much about them anymore - not because of lack of skill or lack of game knowledge but because once mastered survivors have just more stuff to work with. It's just that relatively few survivors make it there cause nearly every step on that way feels like the game giving you the finger. On the flipside once you are a killer player on that level, facing those survivors it feels like a constant middle finger.
TL;DR: Yes. The game is grossly unbalanced. Not necessarily in a "killer sided" vs "survivor sided" kinda way but in a "newbs vs veterans" kinda way.
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Welcome to the forums. I agree with Halloulle comment above. The balance you are talking about is very egregious because this game has a giant gap between new players and veteran players. This game is much more killer sided for beginners, but gets more balanced out when you become more experienced. Average to above average survivors can usually get some people to escape without comms, and with comms, it's usually the killer having to be on their toes.
30 hours is still a very small amount of time to determine the whole balance state of the game, but the information you gave is super valid when it comes to assessing balance from the ends of the spectrum. What you have shown is that new players will gravitate towards killer because they can get "wins," which is good until they reach a skill wall where they'll have to either climb it or just quit the game. Between grind and weird power balance, it would explain why DbD doesn't have the best retention rate.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your data and results, it's always nice to hear all opinions and it seems like you approached it from a mature manner. Survivor "noobs" will always get stomped by killer "noobs" just because of base mechanics.
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Not talking about skill
Survivors can be between
- 4 Solo, no good perks combo, no item
- to 4men swf, 16 meta, 4 Ranger/Styptic or 4 Commo toolbox/BNP with special offerings
Killers can be between
- Trapper without slowdown playing for fun
- to Nurse with 4 slowdown, range addon, Red mori and tunneling
You cant truly balance the game.
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Wait, what? 30 hours and still using NOED?! Shame!
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You'll learn just how wrong you are as you get more hours in against a good SWF team. Sure you do get notifications, and scratch marks etc but it's 1 person against 4. If the 4 are good,get a good map, and know how to counter whichever killer you're using you'll quickly see how it's not so " kiLleR siDed"
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As interesting as your figures are it in no way shows any real data.
There are so many things that could mean that either killers or survivors have a harder time in a match.
For example:
What map did you play. Killers will find it easier to win on maps like dead dog (in my experience) than a map like The Game (as its pallet drop simulator)
were some matches containing more console players than PC players - This has a huge effect on the game as console players tend to have a harder time due to the limited amount of buttons they have on a controller (The classic healing instead of dropping a pallet issue)
It would be really interesting to see some real data on the killrates under strict conditions to ensure there was no swing in either killer or survivors favor but it would require a lot of work to do.
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Okay. So...there's something about this that makes me a bit suspicious, but let's proceed assuming that this is genuine.
When you start out, you tend to get a lot of kills. The killer 'role' is much more intuitive than survivor is.
This starts to fall off as you encounter better players, more coordinated, often in an SWF.
This is what playing against a skilled survivor looks like.
To your points:
- 'Hours' doesn't really matter, unless you're talking about...honestly I'd say 300+, which tends to be the point where someone starts being 'intermediate'. This game takes a lot of time to really grasp.
- At very low MMRs, killer choice doesn't really matter, because survivors have absolutely zero idea of how to loop or run you effectively. You can effectively just walk up to them and hit them. This will change. Go and watch Otz's attempts at a Dredge streak to see how tough it can be to play against a good group of survivors even now.
- Talk to me in a few hundred hours. Or, if you want to see what you're in for, go check out some of the recent Hardcore Survivor series streams - just dozens upon dozens of 3-4man escapes in a row.
As things stand, the killer has a slightly lower skill 'floor', in that it's a role where you'll feel stronger than survivors for a time.
As you start getting towards a more intermediate MMR, you'll see why killers need those things.
Also -
Yeah, I want to see footage too, because something about this feels...off to me.
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This discussion is really interesting, because it depends more on facts and views from both perspectives than just "cry survs are too strong or killers".
I have played 1.500 hours till February, when I started the game. I do love the game, its a bit passion. I love it to complete all tomes and rank up to Iri 1.
From my point of view, killer is easier when u play against non-coordinated teams. However, if u reach the 2man SWF / 2man SWF Teams or even 3 or 4men at once, u cannot win with different killers, if they know what they do. Thats a fact. The only way to beat this coordinated superheroes is to change the game into an 3v1 asap.
One thing you need to consider: While survivors are literally all the same, using the same addons around the board and perks, every killer has different addons and abilitys. One Addon-Pass is super nice, another one is super bad. So are the abilities of the killers.
In my opinion, you should watch over the killers first and work for balance among these. After that, u should look for the "how do they play out"-stuff.
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You're right for beginners it's very killer sided, a lot of new players stick to killer for this reason, imagine trying to learn the game in current solo Q and dying 9/10 games
it was ok before latest big patch killrates were close to 50%, now they're doubling basekit BT from 5 to 10 in next patch, it shows that killrates are probably extremely high or they wouldn't do that, i'd say it's between 60 and 70% now, very unbalanced
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Some responses:
That's kind of my point. At 30 hours I realize I'm incredibly new. It's a strange game design that makes one side really easy and the other incredibly hard for new players (especially when we're defining new in the hundreds of hours).
This goes to my first anticipated response. Is the game meant to be balanced against playing 4 SWF with 1000s of hours of experience each? Yeah, I should, hopefully, get wrecked; it would be crazy if I wasn't. But if the game is being balanced for killers against experienced teams working together as the default its a massive problem for everyone else not in that category.
-Jay K asked about maps
--Yeah, some maps were definitely easier than others. Not knowing maps, the ones that were in buildings with stories seemed particularly hard as a killer running around trying to find the stairs. However, I didn't use any offerings to try and influence the maps and took the ones that were given to me.
-Starlost talks about it potentially not being genuine:
I don't know what to tell you. I'm not some twitch streamer who records them, I'm just a guy who plays video games and likes hard data. However, your other comments (and others in the thread) basically agree with the assertions I'm making, the beginning of the game is incredibly easy for killers and a slaughter for survivors. Then you go to the response of 'but just wait until you hit a good SWF team'. If that is the presumption of the game that solo Q is a losing effort meant for masochists, sure, I can live with that, but let's be upfront about what we mean when we're talking about balance.
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Let's be real
When you talked about running around to find the stairs, you were thinking of Midwich, weren't you ? :'D
Because if so, same ! My first game ever as killer was on Midwich, I'd been there maybe 2 times as survivor before, and after all of the upstairs gens were completed without me finding the stairs a survivor had to come down and show me the way with emotes because he noticed I was lost...
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At 30 hours in this is a normal viewpoint and experience to have. Being a new killer is a lot easier than being a new survivor (assuming that matchmaking is pairing you with new survivors too). Even a couple of experienced survivors may fall to a newer killer if they have teammates who don't contribute much.
Killer does get harder. And solo survivor will still be pretty hard as well, at least both roles will take some degree of effort barring no throwing from the other side. But most of the
weird nerds with no livesexperienced players with a lot of hours will agree that with all players correctly using the tools available to them, survivors will win out. In standard, average MMR gameplay it'll usually fall to whoever is more skilled, got more lucky, played more brutally, and/or brought the strong stuff.3 -
New killer VS new survivor = Killer smashes survivor
Medium killer VS medium survivor = fairly balanced matches
Really good survivors VS really good killer = Mostly comes down to killer choice and perk choice. Still winnable with majority of killers and perks but weaker killers with weaker perks will definitely struggle a lot.
Best survivors VS best killers = Mostly survivor unless its Nurse/Blight but these matches like never happen outside of organised scrims/tourneys
Thats the simplest way to describe DBDs balance.
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according to killers in the forums.....every loss is a 4man sweat squad.....its like calling someone a cheater.....but yet no proof of it
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Yup, that's what DbD is like when you're new. I had the exact same experience. New survivors don't even understand that they need to be dropping pallets and vaulting windows in chase and doing gens when not in chase. It's also pretty common to see them try to escape from hook because they don't know that it kills them, and the other survivors don't know that they need to go run up to the hook to save their teammate before they die. So they just get obliterated over and over again.
With new killers, you just walk up to survivors and hit them, then do it again. It's very easy to understand compared to survivor, so a brand new killer will ALWAYS beat a team of brand new survivors. There is a tutorial, it simply needs to be mandatory before you're allowed to enter matchmaking.
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Yeah, pretty stock standard new DBD experience. The first 100 or so hours (at minimum) are going to feel very killer sided, from both perspectives. But that changes as your time in game increases and you rise in MMR.
The most important aspect of survivor gameplay is that ability of the fours surv to play together synergistically, and when you have newer players playing together, well, that isn't gonna happen much, if at all, especially in solo.
Now once you start getting teams of experienced players, who even in solo have a good idea of what is going on and what plays should be made, the calculus starts to change. SWFs, who you will rarely if ever encounter at the lowest ranks, are a whole other thing. Up until the recent patch, I would say that at higher ranks the game was actually skewed quite clearly toward survivors.
But at low ranks? Yeah, that's always gonna be a bloodbath.
And 30 hours isn't just a little in DBD, it's nothing. Might as well be 3 hours as 30, it's about the same. When I was starting out I remember hearing that about 1000 hours (per role) is where you start to get actually good at the game. It seemed absolutely absurd to me at the time, but I have found it to be true.
But one thing that is objectively true is that this game will never be balanced. It's a 4v1 with wildly different killers and matchmaking criteria that are exceedingly difficult to pin down. It's like an alphabet soup of variables, on top of the fact that we have a player pool full of people playing the game with their own agendas and ideas of what "winning" is.
So if you're looking for a game that you're going to get good at quickly and ever really get your arms around, you'd best cut your losses now.
We'll all masochists here.
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Yes, when you are new, the games balance seems rather...odd.
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It's not killer sided. Just no. And some of these claims you make after 30 hours is pretty ridiculous actually, lmao.
Let's be honest, it's not impossible for some people to be better at a game when they start, than most people are when they start a game. So maybe that's the case with you. I have a friend that has played the game for like 50 hours and can loop killers better than survivors with 100 hours or more.
DBD is however also known to be more killer sided, the lower in rank you go.
A big problem is that there are far more little extra aspects and nuances that survivors must learn and understand to play efficiently, than killers. As killer, you just play, and there isn't too much you need to learn to play effectively, at least at lower ranks. Obviously you want to get better at chases, and map pressure, but still. With survivor, instinctively you would think you want to play very careful, and avoid the killer at any cost. Playing afraid pretty much. But that is not effective at all.
It's hard to tell what exactly is the problem, but the game surely takes longer for surviors to learn how to play effectively. And I am talking about al the things you need to know in each role, not the actual gameplay, and mechanical skill. I guess it's maybe because it's the survivors job to not only evade and be chased by the killer, but also to get the objective going and done.
As a killer it feels like playing a child in basketball. You have to intentionally screw up sometimes to create the appearance that its actually competitive. As a survivor it feels like everyone on the team needs a perfect. Every mistake, missed skill check, mistimed vault/pallet, bad communication, has serious repercussions.
DbD has survived for a long time. It's a fun game with a cool theme. But a crazy design that things are so easy for the killer from the beginning while the survivors need to master multiple skills and, ideally, play in a group with chat.
This one here is pretty crazy to lmao. You think you can make such judgements just based on 30 hour gameplay? What you call "handholding", in every case, is just vital information for killers. You really think people would still play killer if they couldn't see the aura of the main objective they have to defend, or if they couldn't see scratchmarks of survivors, so that survivors could just lose the killer all the time? What on earth?
Also, in general, killer mistakes are more punishing than survivor mistakes. If the survivor team is actually doin gens, that is.
Do you have to remember where the generators are? Nope.
Hooks? Nope, we'll tell you that.
Skills checks? Of course not.
Did something go wrong and you aren't sure where the noise came from? Oh, here's a visual icon as well.
Have trouble finding hiding survivors? Here are some perks that let you see them. Hah, of course we won't let the survivors know you have them.
Like I just said. This here has nothing to do with handholding, it's just vital information for killers to be able to actually have a chance to find and pressure survivors. You can not actually believe the game would be fine without this information, right?
Chases are another example of this. After you hit a survivor they get a speed boost. Cool, you can still run them down.
Oh, you lost sight of them? No problem, scratch marks.
No scratch marks? Don't worry, blood trail.
Oh, can't see the blood? We got you, we'll have them wine so loud you can't help but find them.
This I also find quite baffling. I really hope this post here is even genuine. But if it is, you probably don't realise that this game is balanced around survivors wasting time of the killer during chases, so other survivors can do gens. It's not balanced around survivors being able to lose the killer easily. If survivors could do that, the game would be pretty broken. The claim of "you can just run them down" is not really accurate, because you actually have to down them in chase, and survivors have defenses they can work with to not go down.
To be fair, this also might be one of the reasons why killers are stronger at low ranks. In the end, at first place, the chase is dictated by the survivor. Because they are the ones running away, and have to use defenses against the killer. That's when killer skill comes in to play, with which they can then try to outplay the survivors. But if a survivor has no clue at all on how to loop and waste a killers time in chase, then the killer doesn't really need skill to begin with to down them.
I guess tutorials are one area where the game is still lacking big time. The devs really need to add better tutorials that properly teach survivors how to play more effectively to win matches.
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At lower levels of play this game favors killer, at higher levels it heavily favors survivor.
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Is the game meant to be balanced against playing 4 SWF with 1000s of hours of experience each?
Not exactly, but it's meant to be balanced around players near the top, because anything else means that good players get bad matches. Matches should get more balanced the more skillful you get, not less.
You're not meant to be escaping easily at low MMR, you're meant to be learning how the game works. Good teamwork is required to escape in this game, and you won't have good teamwork at low MMR. If the game weren't balanced around good teamwork, then groups of players who do have good teamwork would be absolutely untouchable.
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The balance is weird.
It starts out with total Killer domination and then at some point does a rapid 180° turn and suddenly Survivors dominate.
This makes it incredibly hard to properly balance the game, because if you balance around high levels then Killers will absolutely obliterate their opponents in low levels, but if you balance around low levels then Survivors will absolutely obliterate the Killer in high levels. Then there is the gap between soloQ Survivors and SWF groups, which makes another huge difference and you got total chaos.
It's best not to take this game very seriously, because otherwise you will most likely get disappointed. This is not a competetive game, so you shouldn't treat it like one - I always compare it to Mario Party in this aspect. Sure losing sucks, but ultimately you know that you were just unlucky this time and ultimately it just boils down to a dice roll that you have no influence over - DbD is very similar to that once you realise how much RNG goes into who wins and who loses (of course skill is still a requirement, but skill alone will not rescue you when the map RNG is horrible).
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I agree that your experience is pretty normal for a new player. I'm sure you've seen lots of comments here cautioning you to wait until you gain more hours, face different play styles, perks, abilities, etc. Rather than go further into that, I'll request this.
Make a few more posts on here, giving updates, as you progress. Your perspectives are likely to change and get more finetuned. You might feel certain Killer perks/add-ons are incredibly OPl, or maybe that some maps are too broken for certain Killers to be competitive. Just keep playing, and then update.
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Im just under 2000 hours and still 3-4K as killer mostly. But some games I get seal swf team with 7K hours each and I lose usually I can get kill or two playing dirty but these games show the game is survivor sided if they are very skilled and know what they're doing. But as survivor I escape freguently maybe like 1/3 of games now playing soloQ or duo/trio swf. But my friends play casually so we could do better and my solo teammates...
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You're not wrong a lower levels of play, however, last time I checked the game is balanced around the top players. So unfortunately you have a more inaccurate finding than you might think.
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Let's go through the points.
1: Players get better over time.
Sure, that should be expected, but that's one of the reasons I posted data as a new player. I gave an equal spread to survivor and killer. Killer takes a couple games to get the hang of and suddenly you are on a run stomping survivors. Survivor has a wide array of elements to learn plus you need to hope for team synergy.
2: DbD is known to be more killer sided the lower in rank you go.
A couple people have had this response. Which amounts to: 'everything you say is true, but it changes if you are playing 1000+ hours with a dedicated team'. You actually spend three paragraphs saying my post is correct and expected for new players.
Some responders have been open about the game being balanced around top players team playing. That actually seems to be one of the most agreed points in this thread; if you want to win as a survivor, get a ton of hours in and SWF. If you want a win as a killer, click the play as killer button, and you will win until you have a ton of hours in.
3: You think you can make judgements just based on 30 hours of gameplay?
The 30 hours of gameplay is the point. I've played very little. Killer is ridiculously straight forward (which you even point out), survivors have a lot to learn/master.
4: This has nothing to do with handholding, its just vital information for killers-
Finding gens is vital for survivors. Knowing the location of the killer is vital for survivors. Knowing where your team is is vital for survivors. But, unless you burn perks, none of that is shown in bright colors; its things that need to be learned off sound ques, remembering spots on the map as you run around, and harder to pick up visual signals.
So yes, I'd call that handholding.
That's also something that could be fine. Just say: for game balance, the killer role needs to be much easier than the survivor. That would probably be an ego hit to killer mains, but it seems to be true.
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One other note to add, I don't think I'm anywhere close to a good killer. I mistime swings, run into walls, and forget about my special power. Even with all of that, and even if I hit a good team, I still feel like its competitive. As a survivor the game frequently turns into a rout.
So a couple observations after some more hours as killer:
1: Time of day seems to be critical for the chances of hitting a team working together and/or I've just hit the level were that is becoming common.
2: I started playing trying to defend all of the gens from the get go. One of the strategy decisions I think is obvious for the killer is to ignore a few of the gens. The survivors need five, don't waste time chasing down the far off gens, let them come to a smaller area of the map that you control. I've tried to play as if I have to defend all the gens which makes it more challenging.
3: Finishing chases. If I run into a survivor clearly trying to loop me away from the gens, I ignore them. Go back and chase the survivors away from the gens. Perhaps something I realized early that maybe helped me as killer is that time is really on my side. If they're not working on gens, I'm winning. They run out of items, pallets, lives, etc. while I remain strong.
Anyway, instead of drawing out matches, I've committed more to finishing chases. Good for bloodpoints, not as good for 4ks.
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When I first started out I didn't think I was supposed to escape much as a survivor and the first time I did it felt amazing. Feeling powerful when I started getting to grips with killer also kept me interested. I actually like this new player balance but I would hope new survivors don't get put off because they feel they've lost just because they didn't escape.
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you want footage? and you are comparing skilled people with the assumption that there are a large group of people like zubat? you literally shared a video of an elite dbd player acting as if there is a large number of players out there like him. now thats hilarious
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you say the game is survivor sided because of a squad that has 7k hours beats you? do you think a squad with 7k hours in a game should be an easy match? maybe it isnt survivor sided...maybe it is.....but comparing anything to anyone with 7k hours is a bit ridiculous one would hope you would agree your rationale is a bit off
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Well. its not a fact...Otzdarva does it.....just play more and get to that mythical 5k hours and maybe you will be able to beat those squads. but it isnt impossible
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de
the problem is what one considers a win. 2k 6-8 hooks is a w....however most killers are under the notion its 4k or bust. and thats the real issue that everyone tends to overlook
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I find it completely ridiculous how anyone can say that the game right now...Is not killer sided. Lower ranks the game is pretty much unbearable being a survivor. 9 times out of 10 most games are ended with 3 or more gens still to be done. The game should not be balanced for the very highest levels when it completely ruins the experience for the players at the lower end of the spectrum.
Ive been playing since before the game came out as i had beta keys and yes i am not the greatest at it but up until recently the game was very enjoyable. You have always gone into a match thinking you might escape or at the very least have a good game and make a good go of it. Survivors still lost many many games but not by the wide margin that it happens today
In all the years i have played i have never seen it so one sided at the level that i play at
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Please explain why everyone should consider a 2K a win. I mean... that's a tie
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I would personally consider 2k a draw but it's a result I'm happy enough with. I don't bother actively trying for 4ks outside of adepts or right challenges, slugging and then searching for the last one is just a very uninteresting and anticlimactic ending to me
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You just made my point.....while you say 2k isnt a win and i have no proof its a win....where is your proof it cant be considered a W?
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Yes this game is killer-sided, it's obvious to any person who has played both roles, or watches both roles on twitch.
As usual people here find excuses and ask you for more evidence, but do not bother recording, no matter how much effort you will put into your data people here will always find one stupid reason to dismiss it, and then they will ask you to collect your data in a different and more complicated way until you do it and they dismiss it again.
Similar to you, a while back I recorded my baby Nurse gameplay, I won 36 GAMES IN A ROW. I recorded all the games and it is painfully awkward for me to watch it now, I would play with useless perks, miss all blinks, and yet still 4K every time. But people blamed this on me and the survivors being low-MMR. Which is true, but hey, 36 games in a row? Can you name any other multiplayer game where one could get such streak?
Then to refute the "low MMR" complaint, I made an other thread, where I counted the win/loss ratio of a few high-MMR solo queue twitch streamers using publically available VODs, and again the data was heavily killer-sided. Every single survivor streamer had sub-50% winrate, and the average winrate was 30%. But similarly, people found excuses like "low sample count" (I counted 39 games...), said that people with 10k+ hours like Probzz are not high MMR or are not playing seriously.
There is always this myth that "once you reach high MMR it's only SWFs and it's very survivor-sided" but you never see these SWFs in your games, and neither do you see them on Twitch. You can just watch high-level streamers like Otz, they get 10+ win streaks as killer all the time, rarely do they get SWFs and even when it is the case they still manage to 4K them most of the time. Then they switch to survivor for a few games and suddenly it's loss after loss.
The worst part is that BHVR seems to genuinely have data showing that the kill rates are balanced, I have no idea why it is so far from reality, maybe it's because they don't count disconnects, maybe it's because of cheaters / bot killers.
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100% it's a sad game now, 4Ks are way too common a lot more than 4 escapes, survs have to stay glued to gens and play with perfect efficiency at all times, all the fun is gone, vast majority of killers are tunneling too because it's both easier and stronger than ever, solo Q need more than a few seconds of basekit BT
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First of all: Welcome to Dead by Daylight!
With that being said. 30 hours or even 100 hours is very little in this game. Veterans have usually over 3k hours. Some even going over 6k hours (longest player has 11k i think). While the game might seem overwhelmingly killer sided for new players. It certainly doesn´t stay that way, when you play longer.
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Im sorry, but i have to disagree with everything you said here. Killer need that information bc as a killer you need to know where to go at all times. Time is precious when you are playing killer, you can literally lose a match bc you got stuck for half a second in a box, the survivor reached a window and the chase that was a guaranteed down now is extended for who nows how much time. In a game that lasts 10 minutes, a killer has 10 minutes and survivors have 40. I'm not saying survivor is easy, when i play survivior is mostly solo, and i know how frustrating solo teamates are. As a survivor, you only need to worry for one generator at a time, as a killer, you need to worry about all of them. You said you tend to priorize a area and ignore the other gens, and it is a great strategy, but smart survivors know how to take advantage out of that, SPECIALLY if the have circle of healing or any other way of healing themselfs
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If you really want to say that killers are stronger than survivors there are some arguments you can make, but nothing here aint it, you are just getting bad teamates, and if you are constantly gettin 4ks with trapper or wraith, this says more about the survivors you are getting than anything else
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The early game favors the killer because there is a minimum threshold survivors need to reach to be competent and the game doesn't have a bot system to actually teach you what you need to know (the updated tutorial is still woefully lacking in basic, core concepts).
Once survivors understand the rules of the game, it is wildly in favor of survivors. 4 escapes are incredibly common, killer perks get overwritten by survivor perks across the board, and more than half of the killer options struggle to get even a single kill. And that just gets worse and worse the higher up in the skill ladder you go, until there's really only Nurse and Blight who can compete at the highest level.
The issue is that a killer's task revolves 100% around survivors, whose skill increases over time. So the whole game gets harder as you play more.
Survivors, on the other hand, have basic tasks which are the exact same no matter what level you're playing at. Skill checks never get harder, gens never get harder, locating spawns, navigating stages, memorizing pallets/loops... on and on. Once you know it, it doesn't get any harder. The ONLY part of the game that gets more difficult for survivors is the chase, which only occupies a single survivor at a time. The rest of the team breezes through elements that used to be hard but have become trivial.
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New survivors don't know totem locations, gen spawns, looping, tile chains, the value of exhaustion perks, what killer perks do what, what status effects on the Hud mean, etc. There is a lot more to learn as a survivor that is not explained in any way vs a killer starting off.
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problem is people dont stick around that long to find out because its a god awful experience.......you do realize that right?
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Sure, time is precious, but that all goes to presumptions built into the games. Most killers boil down to making strategic decisions about map control and playing a guessing game with survivors in chases. Survivors have a much higher quantity of things to learn (Carth covered them well in a post here) and a mistake by a survivor gives away a lot more than a killer mistake (unless you are playing a high ranked SWF team with coordination, which everyone seems to come back to as the balance measure).
One thing I find interesting as a balance thing, and you talk about survivors being able to override perks, is not only are there players who have 100s/1000s of hours of practice on me, but they also get the advantage of mixing and matching perks to make ideal skill set. I get that it is baked in to keep players for long periods of time, but it's just a mismatch on so many levels.
This will probably be me. I got up to 30 hours relatively quick, partially because I was taking notes and tracking things, but since then my hours have slowed to a crawl. Survivor is a massacre, killer is generally easy and not my preference, and the response seems to be 'just give it a few hundred more hours'.
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Summary: The game is way too easy for killer. And that is very true.
I would argue here that too much is expected from survivors for how easy it is for killers to do their objective. It should never take a 4 man pro team to have a chance to win. Completely disregarding killer experience level is why the game is now broken.
The game should be equally hard for both sides. Killers should never auto-win because survivors are just simply below a certain level - that is horse hockey.
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My Opinion:
Survivors should be dying. Survivors should expect the game to end with them dead on hook, and the game is enduring to try to change that. A "good" game is one that ends with you getting around 20k unmodified blood points, regardless of whether or not you survive.
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Its not true that survivor have more things to learn. You just dont need to learn most of the killer skills yet, bc survivor have not learned their skills.
For example killer are moving faster as survivor. So you dont need to learn how to chase if survivor dont know how to loop. Right now its enough to just follow them.
Normally you cant just chase survivor of gens and deplete their ressources. They game would be lost before they run out of them. It only works bc right now some survivor dont do gens at all, bc they are scared and hide, dont find gens, bc the go down too fast etc.
The problem is that the game doesnt show the basics for new players and in a 4vs1 game, the one player needs to have the higher base stats. So he wins if noone uses the mechanics of the game.
An asymmetric game is just hard to balance.
And im not telling you that you need to play against a swf to experience balnced games. Im only playing solo and im doing fine most of the time. But to be fair you cant know the skill level of your opponents and your teammates in this game, so maybe thats the reason. But i wouldnt say im really good as survivor, only above average.
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Starting out I found the survivor side much easier to get a handle on in terms of learning maps and identifying objectives and loops due to the third person view, I play a lot of third person games like Dark Souls, Monster Hunter, Resident Evil, etc. so maybe that is why. Killer's FOV is also really bad without shadowborn for me so that was a big hurdle to get over. I think the ease of either side may depend a lot on what perspective (1st or 3rd) you prefer. Of course with survivor you are dependent on your teammates and when I started playing about a year ago in solo queue I don't remember my teammates being as new to the game/bad as they seem to be now.
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