Anyone else feel that the base kit BT at end game is just broken?
I've noticed that since the Base kit BT has become a thing my kill rate in end game has droped significantly.
Now i know what people are gonna say "Don't tunnel then" but tunneling in end game is a VERY good stratagy to secure a kill. With the base kit BT if the gate is 99ed then 99% of the time the survivor on the hook once rescued is going to get out. And if you try and go for someone else they will tank a hit with their BT so you can't even get a different down.
They stoped DS and OTR working in end game because it gave the survivors a free win effectivly so why does the base kit BT still exist in end game.
With it being increased to 10 seconds with an increase up to 10% speed on top of the endurance effect end game is going to be near impossible against any half decent survivors unless your a bubba :(
Comments
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Absolutely not.
I can’t believe you actually think 5 seconds BT is that crucial to your unlimited tunneling
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And camping and tunneling at egc is not broken?
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Well this was exactly the response i was expecting. I'm not talking about during the match. The 5 seconds is fine during the match (although doubling this is a bit extreame just to counter a legit play style).
I'm talking about in end game when you hook a survivor they get unhooked and you have 0 chance of ever downing them.
This has nothing to do with "unlimited tunneling skills playstyle" and you just assuming that shows how narrow minded you are (clearly a survivor main who thinks every killer tunnels)
As i said before tunneling a survivor in end game is a very legit strategy and i don't know why us killers who don't hardcore tunnel are being punished in end game by having survivors immortal off the hook.
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I don't. Try changing the endgame tactic - when a rescuer comes, target them. Hit them once, they unhook the hooked, then take them again and get the new guy on the hook. Chances are there may be some hook trading, but then the remaining survivors have to do another rescue attempt, or they escape and you still get your kill.
Especially now DS deactivates in the endgame, and also OTR cancels endgame, it's really not a major issue at all. Even the extended BT we'll get at the next chapter won't protect the rescuer.
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Never said it wasn't but I don't believe any survivor should be basicly immortal off the hook. If your team mates are there they can body block to get a legit escape not a free escape thanks to base kit BT.
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DS and OTR deactivate in the endgame. If you want kills in the endgame try to spread the hooks around instead of focusing on one person during the early and midgame and go for the unhooker instead.
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Honestly this is what I try to do. I'm not one to always tunnel unless the need arises and i will always go after the rescuer (unless the one on the hook runs at me with endurance and if thats the case i will tunnel them even at 5 gens because they basicly asked to be hit and chased)>
the issue is unless you commit to camping at end game (which is very boring so i barely do it) I usually get back to the hook just after they have been rescued. This results in 1 hit on the rescuer then they both escape the exit gate.
Not saying this always happens but unless you wanna Camp at end game to ensure hook trades you might aswell just stand in a corner and let the game end (well untill the survivors have finished teabagging and waiting for you to watch them leave :) )
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Thing is as i said in my last responce unless your gonna camp at end game it doesnt matter if all 3 other survivors are on death hook by time u get back to the hook they are either long gone or the one hit you get on the rescuer allows them to escape.
Maybe i will just do what all survivors expect me to do and instead of playing fair every match just hard tunnel survivors. It seems to be the direction the game is going anyway might aswell join the band waggon lol
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It doesn't matter if it's at endgame or not. 5 seconds means nothing and it is really up to Hook placement RNG AND your friends taking a hit, at that point if a survivor can even make it past the gate.
No I don't think every killer tunnels. Just the ones who complain about 5 seconds BT AND admit that they tunnel.
Your words, not mine.
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So camp in the endgame then. Nothing's stopping you other than it being boring.
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You have a very narrow view on tunneling don't you.
You do realize that this is sometimes the best strategy especially when gens are flying and you need the advantage.
But i guess being a survivor main you just expect killers to stick to your hand book and throw the game just so they dont tunnel.
I try to stay resonable and have reasoned discussions but there is always someone who comments "dont tunnel 4head" without even considering the other side.
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So basicly either I don't camp end game and throw the game or i do camp, it be boring AND i get called out as a camper in end game chat?
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It's not being narrow minded, it's being mindful of how unbalanced that playstyle is.
Especially in an era where gens are slower, you don't have a long cooldown after hitting someone and there is an array of perks to choose from to slow the game down.
The problem is players like you want to have their cake and eat it too. You guys were so happy that they buffed killers that you said "Nice! Now I can Tunnel even better!" <---- THAT is the problem.
So I digress, 5 seconds BT is what you are complaining about? Spare me. 🙄
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It's strong if hook is close to exit gate but most of the times you can hit unhooker and hook trade, if whole team is here bodyblocking just take the L honestly who cares, it's not that important
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I hear what you're saying. My view is that if you have someone on the hook during EGC, then keeping in the area is the better idea, since it's the only thing remaining for survivors to do, other than pleb around the Exit Gate, (or, god forbid, actually leave!).
There are exceptions, and of course some you win and some you don't. But if those kills are important, then enticing survivors into the last, great rescue attempt is the way to go.
Camping is dull, I agree. As survivor, we got a 4 escape result from an insidious camper due to some clever plays today, so it doesn't always pay off, but at the end it may be the only sensible thing left to do, if kills are a priority.
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"The problem is players like you want to have their cake and eat it too. You guys were so happy that they buffed killers that you said "Nice! Now I can Tunnel even better!" <---- THAT is the problem."
Players like me? You don't know my playstyle. you don't know me. Just because ive made a post looking for actual feedback not just hate filled posts about anti tunneling doesnt mean i tunnel every game.
When any buffs to killers come out the last thing im thinking of is "oh yey i get to tunnel harder" My build hasn't changed in well over a year and my build activly promotes no camping and no tunneling (although since BBQ nerf it doesnt promote no tunneling now).
This will be my last responce to you as you clearly don't care about an actual responce and are just here to say "dont tunnel, omg can't believe you comlaining about 5 seconds BT".
Not complaining about the 5 seconds BT overall just in end game situations.
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Agreed that if you hook mid map the BT doesnt come into play. but on mid/small maps 9 times out of 10 the only hooks you have are closer to one of the 2 exit gates. At this point it might aswell say if u get unhook instant escape because you're not gonna catch the one on the hook if the gates are 99ed.
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Survivors actually leave when the gates are opened? Please teach me how to make this happen lol.
But on topic i see what your saying. I tend to stay in the area regardless in EGC but short of face camping your not gonna secure a kill if the survivors have even half a brain (i know some of them really don't have even that)
I think the real issue isn't with any base kit perks, isnt to do with tunneling or camping its the fact that EGC in its self is just a broken/boring mechanic and needs really looking at.
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i guess thats the issue. Sometimes you have no choice but to hook near a gate especially if the team is working well together. At that point i count to 5 and they are either out of the game or so close to the exit gate that downing them puts them over the edge.
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Yes players like you, because you are complaining about something that is clearly not strong at all when you consider that you can just wait the 5 seconds. It's like imagine if generators had gotten a huge buff and you could finish them way quicker. How ridiculous would it be for someone to complain about them not being done quick enough, because something doesn't go their way in one instance? Sounds very entitled.
I know what you are complaining about, and what I am telling you is that 5 seconds BT does not make a difference in endgame anymore than it does in early game.
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I mean, 20 meters is barely anything, you can easily wait them out.
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The squeaky wheels got their grease when OTR and DS deactivate when the gates are powered but per usual, enough is never enough. If this game lasts another 10 years it's going to continue to be a sh*t show of buffs, nerfs, and reworks to appease the loud minority.
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Ironically the solution to the problem the OP pointed is to do the exact opposite of this. 4 survivors on death hook at EGC = easy 4 man escape vs 90% of the roster. 2 or 3 alive and with zero hooks makes the bodyblock conga significantly harder to pull off. Same problem with old DS in EGC. You didn't tunnel the survivor in question and force him to burn it early = "bad killer" and if you did force him to burn it early = "tunneler!!! DS only hits tunnelers!". Exact same problem. The above is in regards to the 10 second change coming by the way, 5 is nothing and can be waited out. 10 is basically old meta BT for free.
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Its absolutely fine. Bhvr don't touch basekit bt. It doesn't need to be like every other survivor perk where it ends when gates are powered, killers shouldn't be able to just slap a survivor down as they just get off the hook, even in endgame. If 5 seconds or the proposed 10 seconds thats coming is too powerful, or unfair for you, you need to rethink your "playstyle".
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Yep. I agree and "Never Enough" is pretty much their theme now.
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I actually agree with the OP on this one.
BHVR nerfed DS and made OTR not work in Endgame because they wanted to eliminate "free" escapes. These were far from free because a survivor actually had to fill a perk slot with DS and after getting unhooked had to make it close enough to the gate to be out guaranteed. This necessitated someone else to fill a perk slot with BT.
After 6.2.0 we'll see "freer" escapes than before. If the gate is open and not far from the hook and 2 or 3 survivors rush the hook against any killer except Bubba they can all handily get out without having to fill a perk slot. The 10% speed boost virtually guarantees that the team can bodyblock for the unhooked.
They've made it so that if all 4 survivors make it to EGC they can almost always all escape and the killer can't secure even 1 kill.
How will (bad) killers respond to this? They will run more slowdowns, camp and tunnel earlier in the game. Oh joy, how fun!
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First point, don't camp then in the endgame. If the survivors get out, they get out. The bigger question is why do you care? I'm not saying this for me but rather for you to self-reflect. What does getting that last kill mean? Practically, your MMR which is an invisible number that affects nothing but matchmaking goes up which you may or may not want. You get very little extra BP from that last hook or kill but you might want it. If you want your MMR or BP to go up marginally camp in the endgame, if not, don't.
You also mentioned endgame chat. Personally, I don't care about endgame chat. No matter what you do, someone will eventually be salty about something. Do you not want the aggravation or do you want it less than you want the extra BP or MMR? Okay, don't camp.
It's a video game and if someone escapes or doesn't in the end game will make no difference as long as you had fun. Just decide which approach is more fun for you and take it.
But, to get back to the BT question, being tunneled is definitely not fun for most players. Basekit BT being increased to 10 seconds helps combat tunneling and that's a good thing.
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This was exactly my point. And with the increase in base kit BT going to 10 seconds along with 10% increase in speed it effectively means that every single survivor gets old BT for free with an increased haste effect to go with it. Had nothing against the 5 seconds (except in end game hence this post) but with the increase to 10 seconds thats only 2 seconds short of the perk BT it just allows so many free escapes.
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You had me untill you said your an 8k survivor. of course you don't expect killers to ever tunnel you and of course you think you deserve to escape in EGC. This is unfortunately the issue with a lot of survivor mains who expect killers to play they way they want to not the way killers want to play.
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I'll have most of the survivors dead by then anyways so no, don't care.
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I would prefer it stay at the current values in endgame, but idc that much
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Tbh I’m not entirely sure yet how much stronger it’s going to be with 10 seconds base. I’m willing to wait and see once the update drops.
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What would you do to improve it?
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It 100% is. Survivors get another perk for free. Dbd has always been survivor sided and I don't think that will ever change.
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You're half right. It's SWF sided. Look at the recent Tweet on the right side. BVHR hitched its wagon to obnoxious streamers and their followers.
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also works with deliverance i think which is kinda a yikes, you'll pretty much always get safe unhooks cause of the base bt aswell. but yea with deliverance no one has to save them so no chance for trade really.
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Well now it's wait 10 seconds, imagine in a game like dbd, not doing anything for 10 seconds every like 2 minutes? Just sit there, that's a pretty big gap, sure you can move still, but that 10 seconds is a lot, like a 10 second DS, hypothetically
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so basically at egc you want it to be Even Easier Mode? how about all survivor perks be disabled once egc starts. this post stcreams entitlment.
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I lost gens, all survivors made it to end game. Please deactivate all survivor perks, then i can get my free kills :(((
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Well you should camp at end game, it is fair. But saying that remove base-kit BT is the problem part. Survivors are already losing DS & OTR at end game. And it is fair to deactivate them in EGC. But there is 0 reason to remove BT too. Because hooked survivor 100% will die with this way, there is no counter.
If hooked survivor is close to gate, they will escape no matter what. If gates are far away from hook, then killer can get another hook, maybe even more kills. I don't think this needs to be changed.
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People can camp any time they want. They can not tell you how to play lmao. You are right here.
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I'm sorry but apart from adrenalin and BT there is nothing which helps survivors to escape, everything else was deactivated. If you can not secure one kill then either leave them slugged or hook them away from gates. I understand it sucks especially if you don't camp and tunnel during the match but you can not expect every survivor perk get deactivated during EGC.
I have not seen any BT perk after the update and I don't think there will be more ppl running it after this patch either.
Let the survivors have some hope of escaping as well... The killer queues are already terrible bc most of them left.
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Did we not already deal with BT during endgame for the last 6 years when survivors had to bring the perk? Somehow we managed to defend endgame hooks then, so why is everyone crying foul just because it's basekit like it's some un-counterable monster?
You guys trying to tunnel the person off hook during endgame but sometimes the smarter action is force hook trades.
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You can't always go pro-killer if something is 50/50. Like EGC will kill survivors if they don't make it in time. It's not like they auto-escape. Hatch is usually found by killer first, because of movement speed. Gates are usually easier to defend by killers for last survivor, because they can be right next to each other, or you possibly see them both from single spot (or by minimal movement), or you are something that moves fast like blight.
Also hook trading... If you are bubba, huntress, trickster, ... Or trapper with some nasty trap, or hag with some good trap, or onrio that can ignore bodyblocks. The list goes on. It's not free at all. Survivors have stronger hand in this situation if 3+ survivors are alive and healthy, but it's totally not free...
Do I have to continue?
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I mean...
If the survivors were able to get 5 gens done
And the gate 99
And they take the risk to come back for the survivor
And they manage to get the survivor off the hook
And enough survivors are left to body block you without concern
And you just so happen to not have anything to make them exposed
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Kinda sounds like they've done more to earn the escape than you have a kill in that situation.
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It is the same concept as end-game DS and OTR, which are disabled end-game. So yes.
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This
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endgame your best bet is slugging until they are down.
Do what I do: I slug the first, I run to the nearest gate and open it myself, I started the endgame collapse timer, and they are running out of time. Run back, by that time they will be buzzing around the slugged guy if they are greedy. share the pain here and there, another will go eventually down with more harmed probably, they will have a hard choice to make, try to get out when time is running out or die, you start hooking all who fell after they calmed down.
I actually had a few times even 4 kills during endgame collapse.
Of course try not to let them power up the gate if you can and should kill them before, but if the last gens popped, you start this brutal game, and it's an intense fight for all against time.
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Solo Q survivors can’t have all their perks deactivate at end game. Honestly the worst thing I’ve seen BHVR do. Killers can absolutely stack endgame perks against survivors; No Way Out, Remember Me, NOED, STBL has been buffed, Terminus means we can't heal, the list goes on and on.
And yet we can't even have Decisive strike. A perk that you need a perk slot for, that has a one time usage- and is so situational that end game escapes with it were very very rare. My God. Why don;t all survivors just have a mandatory chain hunt a la Pinhead but on all Killers as soon as the last gen is activated so no one ever escapes. That's where this crap is heading.
Why would I waste a perk slot of DS (which was nerfed into idiocy) or OTR only to have it deactivate when it *really counts*? It's ridiculous.
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This person gets it.
The inconsistency of removing perk effects from endgame because they want to reduce free escapes kinda gets mitigated when they give those same free escapes at basekit without even needing a perk. And since there wasn't the 10% bonus speed in the past, its arguibly worse than it was when it was just people running BT, You literally go as fast as 110 killers for its entire duration, and it even synergizes with hope to gain even more ground more quickly.
Their design philosophy and direction are just extremely contradictory. Its almost like they never cared about EGC kills being near impossible to confirm, just that survivors had to use perks for it to become impossible.
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