why does legion need to be blind to scratch marks?
i really think legion's entire power needs to be revisited, again. It's way too easy for a survivor to vault a window and then 360 and entirely vanish from legion's pov. It doesn't make sense that a killer meant to deny loops by vaulting is completely shut down by...looping.
Like maybe it's cause my mmr is too high and I'm encountering survivors really good at chases, but I have tons more success with killers who specifically have anti-loop powers, and not Legion, whose anti-loop power basically gives everyone a free lucky break or dance with me.
With someone like nemesis, you can down someone who vaults a window or drops a pallet. And infect them and make them have to find a chest, open it, apply a syringe, and deal with roaming zombies. With legion you can only deep wounds someone if you vault a pallet or window after them, they can easily lose you once you activate your power and before you hit them, and they can mend at any point that they're safe.
Like it's always felt that legion needs something else to keep his power level in line with other killers, especially recent ones, but as it stands he feels incredibly weak against survivors good at basic chases.
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Umm... I wouldn't exactly call Legion an anti-loop power killer. That might be your mistake. His power is more for getting a lot of injuries and keeping survivor vulnerable. You aren't supposed to really use his power in a loop to get the down, but more so get many injuries so that you can M1 them after.
What you're experiencing though takes a bit of practice to recognize and once you know the survivor either used your limited FOV or ran around a corner, you should be able to hit them with ease.
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I used to struggle with not seeing scratch marks as well, and get quite annoyed at it (I still keep a liking to Spies From The Shadows from using it a lot on Legion initially).
The thing is, not seeing scratch marks is not that much of an issue when you learn how to time Frenzy : when you have a clear line of sight (no tall-walls jungle gyms) and that you're close enough that you'll catch up and hit them before they get to an obstacle.
Then, killer instinct does the rest and you don't need scratch marks anymore.
Once everyone is injured, you can use your power for mobility (unless you're using the pills), or if someone is looping you too well and you need to drop chase, pop frenzy to get a hit and have the other survivors' locations revealed to you.
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I think it’s fine that legion can’t see scratches or blood in frenzy. You don’t really need them once you hit someone, you just let KI do the work for you.
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He's not meant to deny loops by vaulting. He's meant to quickly apply the Deep Wound status to multiple survivors. He's a slowdown killer. The counter to him, like the counter to most killers, is looping. Killer Instinct as part of his basekit means survivors can't hide from him; if they couldn't loop him, either, then how would survivors be expected to play against him at all?
He's a poorly designed killer who's weak but also not fun to play against (and I don't find him fun to play as, either, personally). A lot of people agree that he needs a big rework.
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Maybe the problem is that you think survivors should have counterplay against Legion. If Legion is so weak, then eliminating survivor’s ability to conceal scratch marks and blood against him is an easy way to buff him. Throw in some anti-loop potential via his ability for good measure. Now he won’t be weak anymore.
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The biggest issue with Legion right now is some of the addon combos you can do are pretty nasty. There is little counter play on smaller maps if a Legion decides to use good addons and perks.
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Killers need some counterplay. No counterplay at all and why bother to run, might as well just stand under a hook. Looping isn't a guaranteed escape, it's potential counterplay.
Legion is weak because the whole idea behind his power kinda sucks. His kit is slowdown and locating, so anti-loop is the one left in the cold. He has speed, and after he gets his first hit in FF nearby survivors can't hide from him, so scratch marks are hidden to give the first survivor a chance at not being hit in chase. He can't down survivors with his power. Playing efficiently by splitting up guts him. Like I said, his design just kinda sucks.
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I agree. Add scratch marks but remove killer instinct
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I think allowing Legion to see blood and scratch marks could be a buff you’d enjoy. And maybe the counterplay could be hiding? Or, since Legion has killer instinct in their kit, just hoping they go for any survivor who isn’t you. Running is disadvantageous but hey, you could simply try to hide. Like I see killer mains say, quite often, just don’t get caught. That seems like a fair trade off, no? Legion is no longer weak, survivors have a bit of counterplay that killers approve of It’s a horror game; maybe it should be more like hide & seek anyway.
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I don't enjoy Legion for a lot of reasons. I don't enjoy slowdown, I don't run slowdown perks. I don't find stabbing survivors over and over fun, I like more interesting powers. And I'm on console, so getting stunned out of his power for whiffing absolutely guts him for me. As long as that last weakness exists, he's basically unplayable for me, and no other buffs will make a difference.
DbD was originally designed as a hide and seek game, but players enjoyed chases more so BHVR has balanced the game more around that. It's not fun as a killer to play a walking sim, and as survivor you don't earn crap for points by hiding. Legion's entire kit would need to be changed if the counter to him became hiding, because Feral Frenzy's strength is that survivors can't hide from it. I'd be all for completely changing Legion's power, they have the best cosmetics but their gameplay sucks, but changing their kit would need to be a complete change and not just showing scratch marks. No more Feral Frenzy at all.
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Legion can down with their power after their last buff (same time as the Haddonfield rework) but it's way too situational. It makes getting 4 FF stabs in feel way better, though.
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The problem with your statement is that the game is not actually horror, rather it's horror-themed. Tremendous difference. If Legion had zero counterplay, there'd be no point in playing any other killer and there'd be no point in survivors playing in the first place.
Hiding is not a viable option against Legion thanks to Killer Instinct. Killer Instinct is basically anti-stealth. You can't hide from it, and the idea of no-one getting caught in the first place would mean survivors couldn't do their objective.
The devs tried the solution of just buffing legion, and it still didn't make them fun to play against nor fun to play as. Survivors don't like mending simulator, and mending simulator is boring for legion players.
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I understand you dislike Legion's gameplay mechanics. But with my proposed changes, the Legion would still have Killer Instinct while able to see scratch marks and blood pools. And if the game were to circle back to hide and seek, which seems to be the direction BHVR is moving in by weakening chase mechanics for survivors, then I believe Legion could be a very powerful killer as they are difficult to hide from. The counterplay becomes trying to maintain distance, outrun/exhaust Feral Frenzy, or hope that the killer prioritizes other survivors than oneself. So there is some counterplay, but the character has been thoroughly strengthened by no longer losing survivors in chase. This would make Legion a 'strong' killer and would satisfy killer mains as well, I think. Would it suck for survivors? Yes, probably. But that seems largely inconsequential.
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...Nurse and Blight are exceptional killers with very little counterplay. People still queue in as survivor even though there is a chance that either of these killers will appear in the match. Survivors could still perform their objectives while hiding; it would just require a cunning playstyle. Either way, I think it would satisfy killer mains who are quite disgruntled by the abilities of survivors.
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Eww no please this would be catastrophic
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Very little counterplay is still counterplay. Survivors cannot perform their objectives while hiding. Not to mention that hiding isn't even a viable option. There are so many perks related to finding survivors. Lethal Pursuer shows you their auras at the beginning of the match, discordance tells you when more than multiple survivors are working on the same generator, Darkness Revealed tells you if survivors are near a locker, Call of Brine tells you when survivors hit a skill check on a generator, Surveillance tells you when a regressing gen has been interrupted.
Disgruntled killer mains who are upset that survivors can loop need to play better. It is 100% a skill issue at that point. Ain't nobody gonna play hide and seek for a whole damn hour just to make 5000 BP at best.
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then keep scratch marks hidden 😂
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Ah ok I see what you mean now 😂
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I'd be very happy with this. A killer with high speed being able to see a survivor through any perk/physical object that can zoom over to them, apply injury + deep wound, then zip off to do it to the next survivor, all basekit (and often at an even higher speed), has always seemed to go against the concept of the game: having a killer actually put forth effort to find survivors, and giving survivors a chance to hide. All Legion needs is to find one, then run around. The other survivors are delivered on a silver platter via KI.
Remove KI and give scratch marks. Fair for the killer, QOL improvement for the survivors.
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