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Awakened Awareness + Starstruck + Agitation + Nurse
Unsurprisingly, the nerf to Awakened Awareness did absolutely nothing to stop the perk from being one of the most powerful perk combos in the game when combined with Starstuck, Agitation, and Nurse. I'd go so far as to say it's probably one of the most powerful builds in the game right now.
On other killers though? Awakened Awareness is an underwhelming gimmick perk that barely does anything. I understand that balancing perks to be used by every killer is difficult. But Awakened Awareness being nerfed specifically because of Nurse, and then still being incredibly powerful on her but weaker on every other killer, makes me wonder why it was even created in the first place.
Nurse doesn't need any more perk combos. Every other killer does.
Comments
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Ah yes, Awakened Awareness. The perk that…
- A survivor can run 26m away during the 3.5s of fatigue (24m if the survivor misplays and gets hit within a single blink during 3s of fatigue) + 3s to pickup before the killer can even turn around or move. Meaning even a survivor starting 0m from the killer can leave the range before the killer can even move or turn the camera. Basically a joke on every map except super small ones that are poorly designed and need a rework regardless.
- Against a killer survivors should be staying split up against regardless of build, which applies to every single killer except Twins.
- Can be countered by hopping in a locker for a little bit until the killer hooks them even if you’re in a corner of the map and can’t run out.
Wait were you actually saying this perk is good?
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Yes I am saying that this perk is good, on Nurse when you combine it with Starstruck and especially Agitation. Let me explain.
- Downing a survivor doesn't always leave remaining survivors with an escape route to get away from the Nurse. Your logic implies that survivors always have a clear, straight path for maximum distance. This is often not the case with most maps. Especially maps with multiple floors.
- Survivors do not always split up. In fact, with the increase in gen times, Prove Thyself has become more popular. Which means there's a greater chance of multiple survivors working on a single gen. Especially if all survivors are solo que'ing and can't communicate where they are.
- Not seeing a survivor gives you just as much information as seeing someone. If you down a survivor near a gen that was recently repaired, and you don't see anyone within the 20 meter radius, that means that they're either running away and leaving scratch marks that you can look for. Or they are in a locker, or using Distortion. And as I said earlier using Agitation makes the perk even stronger. Allowing you to use the carried survivor as a short-range radar as you travel to a hook. A radar that means instant death for any survivor that you see because of Starstruck
Yes. This perk is really, really good on Nurse.
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- That is either a positioning error or risk the survivor voluntarily took, or a map design issue, or bad luck. Which is answered by #3 in my original post.
- If survivors choose to not split up against a non-Twins killer, especially against a killer with heavy snowball potential (eg, Oni/Blight/Spirit/Nurse/etc), that is literally on them for accepting that risk. It's like doing gens while injured to save the time of healing. That is a risk they decided to take, and that is on them. Solo queue needs to have their information buffed. That's a solo queue issue, not anything else.
- You do realize seeing those scratch marks in the first place rely on there not being enough LoS barriers that you yourself stated would make it harder for the survivor to leave the range, right? You admitted just now that it will leave the killer unsure whether someone ran away or whether they're in a locker or whether they're anywhere else in the range with Distortion (a somewhat uncommon perk, but still). That is an incredibly large range of variance, and you will not be able to reliably see said scratch marks unless the map terrain works out in a favorable way in that situation so there's nothing in the way. Otherwise, it is entirely up to a guess. Starstruck doesn't harm a survivor if the killer never realizes they were there or where they are to actually hit them.
- Awakened Awareness + Starstruck + Agitation means 3/4 of the killer's build is something that can be avoided entirely or severely reducing the value for just by by keeping distance from the killer. None of it helps in chase until a previous chase is already won (since all 3 perks rely on getting a down and pick up first). IE, nothing that will be going off in chase. There's also completely zero gen regression on that build. And if you don't see someone in those 20m from Awakened Awareness, it is now entirely up to the killer's game sense or luck to find out where other survivors are. IE, no cue on where to go other than maybe not in the 20m, which could also be false. Unless they run something like Barbecue, which means they quite literally have zero regression and zero perks that will go off in-chase.
It'd be generous to even call this a gimmick perk.
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Since reading your comment I have recorded 3 games playing as Nurse using the build: Awakened Awareness, Starstruck, Agitation, BBQ&Chilli. And both blink recharge speed add-ons. Each game was swiftly won because of the build and I will show you the videos in question with time stamps for relevant information. These videos definitively prove that Awakened Awareness, is in fact, really damn good on Nurse.
Enjoy the crisp 720P quality!
VIDEO #1 - RPD
TIMESTAMPS
0:19 First survivor found. I get lightburned and waste some blinks. My bad.
0:44 Picked up survivor and instantly get AA value. I know that the Steve was nearby so I take the carried survivor to the hook closest to the gen that I last saw the Steve at. I notice his aura hiding behind the gen and get a free down.
1:08 I pick up the Steve and use him as a radar to find any survivors above me. Sure enough I see someone going for the save and carry him to a hook nearby so I can quickly begin chasing the rescuer. I get yet another free down thanks to Starstruck.
1:57 The moment Starstruck refreshes I pick up the Tapp and immediately see someone going for the save. I would have gotten yet another free down if the auto-aim didn't force me to hit the unhooked survivor.
2:15 I whiff an easy blink
2:37 I pick up one of the Steve's and use him to find someone on the floor below me. Getting yet more AA value.
3:10 Missed a hit because I charged my 2nd blink when I didn't need to.
3:20 I hook the Steve when I could have carried him to the hook in the main hall to search for the final survivor, and likely would have found her considering where she put her boon totem.
3:22+ Rest of the game is just me just looking for the final survivor.
VIDEO #2 - Red forest
TIMESTAMPS
0:54 I down and pick up a survivor and notice someone above me. Seeing that they aren't moving, and are likely waiting for me to pick and exit so they can avoid me, I simply put the survivor down. Then blink and get a free down thanks to Starstruck.
1:48 + It's apparent that most of the remaining survivors have given up and the game is already over.
Video #3 - Wreckers yard
TIMESTAMPS
0:40 I land a hit on a survivor and my game freezes for a good couple of seconds. Giving her lots of time to get away. Despite that, I still manage to blink and down her as she popped her Dead Hard too early.
0:55 I pick up the downed survivor and one of the other survivors gives up on the spot. Ignoring her, I spot someone hiding in the bus thanks to AA and would have downed them if I didn't swing too early.
2:39 The Ada was running Low Profile and manages to lose me.
3:10 I pick up the Claud and use her as a radar as I look for the Ada. Turns out that the Ada has Distortion as well. But exits her hiding spot too early and I spot her. I would have found her anyway once she ran out of tokens.
3:11+ I hook and kill the Ada.
In all three games, that I got into the moment I finished reading your comment might I add, have all been won thanks to AA and Starstruck. Either by showing me where survivors are so I can quickly down them. Or by demoralising survivors until they give up. The perk combo is not only good. But downright amazing.
You could try and argue that I just got really lucky in all three games. But the fact is that Awakened Awareness is fully capable of winning you the game and not nearly as weak of a perk as you falsely think it is.
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Don't start recording evidence just to argue with killer mains here, it's pointless, they will always say that something was skewing the results, MMR, or survivor misplays, or luck etc.
That Starstruck is too strong on Nurse is commonly accepted now, that's why one of the most popular nerf requests is to make her lunge after blink a special attack.
If you read between the lines, the people you're replying to are perfectly aware of the problem too. In fact both of them mentioned that there's a "map design problem", which I'll translate it for you it means "Yes this combination is totally busted on Midwich, and we know that Nurse players are also the type of players who will bring a Midwich offering - but we're killer OTPs who will never have to play against Nurse anyway so might as well make a long list of other arguments to distract the topic and blame it on survivors"
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I'm hesitant to subscribe to the dumb "killer mains vs survivor mains" mentality that plagues the forums. Judge someone's argument by how valid it is. Not by how they play the game.
That being said, the arguments that @SuzuKR have used are not valid. As I have already proven. I'd just rather have this discussion stick to attacking the arguments of the person. Not the person themselves. Ok?
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Note that I didn't say "killer mains" I said "killer mains on this forum".
There's nothing wrong with being a killer main, in fact, I think the request to nerf Starstruck on Nurse was initiated by a Nurse player.
But killer mains on this forum are special.
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I'd say that most of the people on the DbD forums are "special". Doesn't matter what role they play.
Getting back on track, what changes would you make so killers other than Nurse can have good perk combos?
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really that just says a lot about Nurse and the game's design than anything. I'm saying this as someone who has played a bit of nurse and a lot more of the other 28 killers.
Post edited by DarkMyst on1 -
What do you mean it's a totally fair perk combo on a fair killer /s
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The survivors should have just mindgamed you.
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Well as you explained it's pointless trying to balance perks like this when there is one killer who gets a completely disproportionate use of it. The perk will always be OP or useless.
So I'd just patiently wait until BHVR finally makes Nurse's blink + lunge a special attack and then we can discuss the balance of these perks on a sound basis
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The problem isn't that Nurse exists. The problem is that the devs aren't balancing the game around the fact she exists.
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which...isn't how you should balance a game. if one character is so busted you have to warp the balance of the game to make sure they don't break it, then the issue is with the character.
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Tweaking Nurse so other killers can use strong perks isn't hard. Making her blink-attacks special attacks instead of basic attacks would go a long way in allowing good exposed perks to be created without having to account for Nurse's lethality.
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starstruck nurse has been most powerful build in the game since trickster's release, so nothing really changed. awaken awareness just made starstruck better even though nurse doesn't need awaken awareness to make starstruck relevant.
Nurse doesn't need any more perk combos. Every other killer does.
well the other killer don't really get played, so why design perks around killer when those killers suck anyway. MIght as well design new perks around killers that do get played. last chapter, they invented darkness revealed, a perk that grants aura reading when opening a locker. huntress gets a lot of playtime and so does nurse so she got another perk to play with.
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Maybe other killers would be played more if they had more powerful perks to use?
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Friendly reminder to everyone here that BHVR has never had an issue with buffing or releasing good perks for killers even though Nurse exists. 18 different perks received buffs which made them good or insane on Nurse. 40 different perks were released, all of which were okay, great, or insane on Nurse. Of those perks, the majority of them are also good or great on many other killers.
Hell, Starstruck literally was buffed from its useless PTB version, which is literally something a ton of people asked for.
Also another friendly reminder that beating pub lobby players means basically nothing, because any good player can do that with basically anything regardless of side or build.
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I'm good with nerfing Nurse so that her blink attacks count as special attacks. I'm not good with nerfing a perk that is fine one over 95% of the killer roster because of one OP killer.
The one condition I have in nerfing Nurse is we don't try to push this into "well if the Nurse's blink attacks count as specials, then the Deathslinger's chain attacks should too".
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Not every killer main here is a nurse loving OTP. Killer main and X solo que enjoyer. I've always agreed that nurse is way too strong with that Star struck and agitation. AA is just the icing on the cake.
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Just rework this mistake of a killer already so other perks can shine on weaker killers.
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That's the problem though. BHVR isn't balancing the game around Nurse. Or nerfing Nurse a bit so perks could be more powerful on other killers. They're re-enforcing Nurse as the most powerful killer in the game by indirectly making her more powerful when they should be buffing every other killer instead.
Dismissing my games for "beating pub players" is an omission of defeat if I ever saw one. You said AA was a terrible perk. I showed you 3 examples that prove it's not. You haven't countered that in any meaningful way. So either admit that you were wrong or show me some actual, valid arguments.
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Or... they're doing what they do, because they have the data to realize it's not actually an issue like people claim it is?
Also, a good player can beat pub lobbies with literally anything. I've literally done zero gen regression Trapper with zero add-ons or offerings and slaughtered pub lobbies at 5 gens left before. Beating average players is a given for good players. The fact you think beating average players proves anything is amusing though. I've escaped pub lobby killers using No Mither or zero perk survivor builds. Does that mean those are good? No, it means average players suck.
Friendly reminder, anecdotes aren't evidence.
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What data? What are you talking about? You brought up a counter-point but didn't even try to elaborate or explain why Nurse getting stronger is apparently not an issue. Even though it definitely is.
If pub games are supposedly invalid then what are you using to judge AA as a bad perk? Comp tournaments? KYF games?
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413 win streak in the final recording on twitch (this continues still after the nerf to her addons). That's not just random pub occurrences. With how often people come across a good group, a god squad etc. you're telling me he never came across any? And inb4 "he's a great player, top of the top" you think he, or anyone else would be able to reach anywhere close on any other killer? Blight maybe (just because of all the unintended techs he has), but probably not near 413. Also, he said that Awakened Awareness was a problem before, a still is after the nerf for Nurse in his vids, and he said Nurse needs to be nerfed.
You also give the "perfect play, perfect scenario" advice to counter it, ignoring the fact that not even the majority of swfs play like that. I always say games should balanced near the top, not pro leagues, or the top tier rank, but 2nd top tier rank to maybe gold, but that's not what dbd is like, and it doesn't have a big enough pro scene for it.
Even if one masters the given advice, 99% of their teammates will not follow it and the match will be over in a few minutes.
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Wow, I wonder what the literal creator company of the game who has access to all of the gameplay data and relevant factors can figure out. Gee, I wonder if there's maybe a reason the devs are buffing and releasing perks that clearly make a totally OP killer even more totally OP, all the while never mentioning her being a problem and never changing her.
Common sense? A survivor should pretty much never be in the area in the first place outside of badly designed maps or being in a corner, and even in those cases, lockers still bypass it. Average players don't have a good understanding of how to play as or against anything well. By that logic, let me ask you this. Is Iron Maiden a good perk? Average survivors will get in lockers for all sorts of bizarre reasons, meaning it will likely give location value if not instadown value at least a few times per match. Instantly knowing a survivor's location in a way that cannot be blocked outside of running a super obscure perk (Calm Spirit) + a potential instadown if you catch them in the next 30s is great against randoms.
"My proof is a winstreak against pub lobby players by a 7200h Nurse main that semi-frequently plays competitive, almost always uses strong builds, and usually doesn't hold back."
The fact you think people come across good/god players often and that it's not just them overrating their opponents is hilarious though. But since you clearly haven't paid attention to the actual streak or its process, I'm going to do you a favor and enlighten you on something. Guess what? At multiple points through that streak, he has come extremely close to losing it, and has maintained it through the skin of his teeth. LMAO.
Also, 413, whatever. There's 50-150+ winstreaks for literally every single killer in this game. Guess what? They've dominated those matches because they usually use strong builds, are good players, and get matched against pub lobbies. Guess what else is also true? Solo and SWF escape streaks, the latter currently in 400+ if I remember correctly. If any of the decent comp teams did 4 man SWF and went all-out against pub players every game mostly using some of the strongest possible builds, they would utterly annihilate almost every single game ever because basically no one ever will come close to that level.
I don't know why you think a streamer saying something means it has weight. People with 6,000+ hours can be utter garbage at this game or have some of the dumbest takes like "pallet stun blinds are OP" or "Legion is OP".
Wow, it's almost like no one plays perfect. Amazing how that works, innit? It's almost like if good players can achieve something that worse players can't, it's a skill issue. But hey, surprise, surprise. Guess what? Any given average player is not going to go against insanely good players almost ever. Those insanely good players will likely go against average players for the majority of their matches (given matchmaking literally can't find a lobby of even skill players for them without taking hours). But with how few of those great players there are in proportion to the overwhelming majority of average players, for any given average player, the odds of actually facing a terror like that is insanely small.
"My teammates played badly/had no clue how to play against X properly, so this is clearly a balance issue." Can you actually read what you type first?
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"If you have a different opinion to me you are a clown!"
Like people are making valid points here but I don't get why it's done with such vitriol, like it's a video game character
Jesus
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You're seriously making the appeal to authority argument for BHVR?
BHVR, who thought that creating and releasing Mettle Of Man was a good idea. BHVR, who heard feedback for nerfing Billy's add-ons and summarily nerfed his power. BHVR, whose many decisions over the development of DbD has at best been mis-guided and at worst stubbornly ignoring the game's problems whilst adding to them?
This is who you're putting your trust in to make good choices?
And what on earth are you even talking about when you say "common sense"? I thought it would be common sense to judge how powerful a build is by playing with it. This theoretical version of the game you have in your head where survivors play perfectly at all times is not even close to how most of the playerbase actually performs. Even the best players are prone to making mistakes from time to time. As it stands you have nothing to base your argument on besides "Well I think so!". When you should know that's not how you structure good arguments.
This smarmy, pretentious attitude you have has clearly done a good job of convincing yourself that everything you say is so obviously correct. And that merely explaining why you're correct is almost an insult. Well, here's a reality check:
- You've responded to sound arguments with dismissal and rudeness
- You've completely ignored evidence that contradicts your point and refuse to even consider why it is that someone might argue against you
- With every comment you've made you only revealed that you know extremely little about how the game is actually balanced
- And you've not entertained even a single comment with good faith
The only person who's a clown here, is you.
Cope.
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From what I have seen with other threads it’s literally no point arguing anything that goes against killer anything with a particular something, chances are you won’t get anything but told your wrong because it doesn’t fit their narrative
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You're definitely not wrong, but its a bit of a chicken and the egg situation. If the game was designed in a way that its extreme variables were contained, it would be more viable to balance everything to be as even as possible. Their core design is based on balancing by averages, they let things go unchecked for one side because there are equally bad issues unchecked on the other. Its extremely lazy design, and a big part of why every argument on here turns into people whatabouting the worst case scenario in every argument, even when the other person is doing the same. You can't fix extremes without either putting in sanity checks and limiting how bad they can get (read, ALL of them, not just certain ones) or evenly and dilgently normalizing the extremes for both sides simultaneously (which is more difficult, since it involves fixing core issues instead of applying fixes on bad foundations.)
most of the time people complain about how bad things can get, they're usually right. What they're missing is that this problem isn't even remotely unique to the situation, unfortunately. The ironic part about nurse is that her strengths mostly stem from her ability to deny survivor strengths, which are what prevent the rest of the killers from being better. Likewise, survivors feel like their defenses are diminished against nurse, simply because she requires more adaptation in playstyle than any other killer in the game. That was also the case with spirit, and was a big part of why she got nerfed, people just refused to adapt, and they refused to take a bite out of the "you can do everything right and still lose" pie that most of the killer roster has to eat regularly. Not nurse tho, and thats why her popularity is generally relative to the viability of other killers.
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The copium from someone who doesn't even understand what they're talking about is sidesplittingly hilarious.
DBD has been (more or less) constantly improving in every new patch. Yes, release DBD was busted in a time where it was literally a brand new game balanced around hide-and-seek and not chase. Know what happened? Ash Williams was released on live on April 2, 2019. Guess when Mettle got fixed? June 18, 2019. Just over two months after its release. Hillbilly's semi-rework and Overheat system came out July 28, 2020. Guess what else also happened multiple times since then? Adjustments to overheat, buffs to his best add-ons, etc on August 5, 11 2021 and October 19, 2021. Just over a year since the initial poorly done release.
Decisive Strike in its pre-nerf state? Explicitly mentioned by devs they are working on it. Same with pre-nerf Dead Hard. Same with overstacking of gen regression/second chances. Same with working on trying to come up with ideas for tunneling/camping/slugging (despite it being an arduous process given multiple ideas have been thrown out for being too abusable or too useless). Same with pre-nerf Keys. Same with pre-nerf Moris. And then results delivered, changes made, and the issues basically solved (outside of perk stacking and the game strategies at the moment, and even that is something they're actively working on and have made test changes on).
Wow, gee, I can't possibly figure out what could maybe be the odd one out here. Hmm... could it be? The character that after her (deserved) heavy nerfs, has basically never ever even a single time been stated to be a balance issue? The character that basically only ever was mentioned in regards to bug fixes? A character that has gotten a huge number of perks to play with due to buffs and releases giving her a plentiful selection of perks she can make amazing use of? That has even then, still not once been said to be an issue or that she needs or will receive changes? Nah. Makes no sense.
"I can beat terrible players with (insert build) on (insert character), therefore, (insert) is OP." Genius conclusion. Clearly why every single perk and character in this game is OP, because good players have beaten pub lobbies with all sorts of bizarre and awful builds that cover every perk in this game. Literally not worth wasting any more time trying to explain this, LOL.
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You're kind of contradicting yourself by saying that pub game 'anecdotes' can't be used as evidence before literally using them as evidence to suggest that any pub lobby that gets slaughtered by Nurse was just 'an average lobby' and easy to beat anyway. Just because you won a match with zero perk Trapper doesn't mean that those three lobbies shown that got slaughtered by Nurse were automatically 'easy to beat' lobbies. Maybe they were 'easy to beat' because of the Starstruck combo that this post is discussing?
And if we aren't allowed to use actual matches as evidence of a killer/perk/perk combo's power level, what can we use? If we look at how common this combo is run on Nurse it has to be in the high percentages literally because it is more powerful than every other thing in the game. No other killer has the ability to pick someone up, hook them, then create a snowball effect where people are one shot and then slugged on the floor repeatedly. All in a matter of moments thanks to aura reading perks so the Nurse can instantly blink to the survivor without having to search for them or having to deal with the survivor getting distance before a chase can start. AA contributes to this problem. It itself doesn't need to be nerfed but it only serves to emphasise how powerful this build is and how it in fact has been made even more powerful thanks to a perk that would be interesting at best on other killers.
If the Starstruck Agi AA combo isn't overpowered, why is it literally the only build seen on most competent Nurses? Why are the other perks that have been released that are apparently super good for Nurse never seen at higher MMR? Because this build blows all of them completely out of the water. If we're following the dev's balance philosophy they don't want a stale and decided meta where only certain perks are run because they trump all of the alternatives. This is why perks like Dead Hard were nerfed and weaker ones buffed to encourage a shift. Given the overwhelming popularity and incredible power level of this build I don't see why the devs wouldn't consider it an issue. And seeing as the build/perks itself are far less powerful on any other killer in the game, I stand to see that they will nerf Nurse. Making her blinks special attacks solves the problem as it means that even if the Nurse can see your aura and blink to you straight away they at least are no longer guaranteed an insta-down and have to tackle actual chases instead of getting a dirty insta-down hit and immediate hook.
I honestly can't understand how you can think a build like this is okay, let alone healthy for the game.
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idk the only one who seems to be on copium is the one who can't formulate an argument without it being full of vitriol for the person it's being sent to. For someone who claims to be all about "da facts" you sure inject so much unnecessary emotion and snark into your posts
Even if I think you have some good points that I agree with, you have no right talking to people like that when they've done nothing wrong other than disagree.
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What do you think is the reason that there's very good players who have massive winstreaks in this game on pretty much anything regardless of killer or survivor or build? Eg, Ryuga playing pre-buff Legion with meme builds and getting a 150+ or so winstreak. I'm curious to hear what your thoughts on this is.
I'm also curious what makes you think you know if a game is high MMR or not to be able to make a statement like you did in the opening of the third paragraph. Dead Hard was nerfed because it was effectively uncounterable against most killers in this game when used for distance, which in turn led to bloated pickrate. Pickrate + over-reliance on perks is why they shuffled around meta recently, such as Off the Record for Decisive Strike, or Eruption over Ruin, etc. Things like built-in Endurance and Haste, general killer buffs in longer gen times, etc. Guess what Awakened Awareness' release + the downshift of perks like Corrupt, Ruin, Tinkerer, Pop, etc did? It switched around things like Corrupt Ruindying Tinkerer into Call of Brine/Eruption/etc for gen regression, and new variants of chase-heavy builds (Starstruck/Infectious/aura perks/etc) now had a new perk to play with even if gimmicky. Also made them overall less necessary comparatively since the base now exists. You know, literally what devs were trying to go for.
Why would I think the build is a problem? Every Exposed perk has counterplay built into it, and Nurse has her own unique counterplay built in. Both methods are viable routes for playing against it on pretty much everything except horribly tiny maps like Midwich or Gideon. Which need reworks anyways (Midwich gates are awful, there's basically no good loops, the entire map is a hold-W test. Gideon has 25-29 god pallets, basically no good windows, etc.)
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The clown picture is exactly something I would use for people who defend Nurse. The most delusional bunch, but I held off. I never said "*streamer* said this" nor "a guy with 6000 hours said this", I showed an example of someone whose word holds the most weight because they play the character, and have interest in that character staying strong to keep their content going, so randos on the forums can stop throwing the same excuses and arguments around, but nothing is ever good enough evidence.
I can read what I type. I typed what almost every single match of the video game that you are playing is like, and you know it. There isn't an us vs them, a low tier vs high tier. It's all the same. I'm not talking about Overwatch where there's obvious differences in ranks and people in those matches are roughly the same skill, and balance shouldn't be made around low ranks. Again, this is Dead By Daylight. Have you played it?
Firstly, notice how you said 50-150 win streaks, and not anywhere near 413? Secondly, I've seen some, they were most before the MMR change. Thirdly, 100 post MMR winstreak on Myers? I'll be waiting for that video that you'll link.
"Wow, it's almost like no one plays perfect." Isn't you first comment in this thread saying "play perfectly to counter this, and expect your teammates to do so as well?" It is.
400+ win streak on 4 top tier players with coms and as I've seen once, a map in the corner of the screen showing numbers on each tile to make perfect callouts? Greeeat argument.
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Constantly demeaning others in every convo, tldr.
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I haven’t faced it yet, but it sounds like a nightmare. Not looking forward to that encounter.
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A perk nerf that didn't address the problem on the killer it was supposed to, but made it useless on everyone else?
BHVR would never do that, and never has.
Especially not to Thanatophobia.
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ITT: People justifying Magnus Carlsen playing white in chess is proof that playing white is overpowered because he would be able to win basically every single game he plays white against your average person who knows how to play chess.
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I don't think SupaAlf has spent all of his life playing Nurse 🤔
Just a good few years.
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Just to reiterate a bit and add something. You say "pub players". Meaning public or random groups, as in a matchmade team, as opposed to premade squads of 4 people and like tournament, pro scene players. How many matches are composed of a 4 man survivor premade, and then how many of those matches are an actual "pro squad" (let's say) that can deal with stuff like that and not a group of friends of various skill. I would say an extremely, EXTREMELY low amount.
If you haven't figured it out, Dead By Daylight is a party game. Not a competitive scene with an esports viewership.
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Okay, if we're going to split hairs over this, then a state champion or something. Against your random average person who knows how to play chess, that is still a completely one-sided game regardless.
Pub players is pub players. As in, public queue-matched players. Whether that's 4 solos, a 4 man SWF, or any mix there within. Solo doesn't necessarily mean they're bad. SWF doesn't necessarily mean they're good. Just whatever comes across from queues. The odds of a person facing an actually insanely good killer, or an actually insanely good lobby of survivors, are both incredibly absurdly small. Most games for an average player, will be against more or less otherwise average players. As in, people who fail to take advantage of mistakes or make huge mistakes on the regular. People that you could give basically every advantage to (best possible build/map/etc) and they'd still lose, cause they don't even know how to take advantage of said strengths to the maximum.
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Comparing Chess to DBD is very bad because Chess has no RNG.
DBD has immense levels of RNG, spawns themselves are RNG.
Also it was a joke
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That does remind me actually. DBD does need some adjustments to said RNG in my opinion. Eg, tile spawn logic. The amount of possible variance gets a bit too insane IMO.
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Yeah I agree I saw a big moment today that demonstrates why
Otz was playing Bubba with Lethal and he spawned on a Macmillan map, very close to a survivor. The survivor spawned in a deadzone with a hill and nothing around it. By the time the survivor realised it was a bubba and that he was coming, he was screwed.
All because he spawned close to the Killer and they happened to have Lethal
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Yep. Things like jungle gym into jungle gym into shack. Or just a giant patch of nothing. Or spawning absurdly close to the killer. Or spawning all together. Or spawning completely separated across the entire map. Etc. I think limiting the extent to which RNG can push either extreme would go a long way with game issues.
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I've gone kind of overboard with my responses in this thread, and I'll work on toning it down here and from here on out as well. I'd like to apologize to those here and any in previous threads that might come by this one (since it is another Nurse-related thread) for my attitude up till now. I'll be more to the point about points from now on.
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"The devs are a trustworthy source of information because when they introduced changes that no one asked for they eventually fixed them"
Your arguments are terrible. Your attitude is disrespectful. And "copium" is a stupid word.
EDIT: I just saw your apology comment. I'm willing to take your word for it. Water under the bridge and all that.
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I'll be honest given the aggressive and condescending nature of your responses I'm tempted to not respond. But I'll bite anyway because I'm a glutton for punishment.
The nature of pub lobbies is, well, random. Even with the MMR system as is you could get matched with four solo queue dummies who don't know what they're doing or a four man SWF who are really good at chases and coordinating. I imagine that part of getting winstreaks is your matchups being favorable and having as you say 'easy lobbies'. I imagine another part is that those streamers have gotten very very good at their particular killers and so if the survivors slip up they will capitalise on said mistakes enormously and usually end the match rather than allow the survivors a chance of a comeback. They will also know the most efficient strats for killers, map layouts and prioritise keeping 3 gens from the beginning of the match. They would have to sweat their balls off to win 150 games in a row, that seems ridiculous to me, but at the same time I'm not surprised that's it's possible. Especially considering the amount of games where you can have DCs or people giving up to add to that tally. For pre-nerf Legion you would have to play very, very hard to win and play very dirty to pull off that many wins and have to be very experienced and knowledgable at the game to do so. For a winstreak that high anyway.
I don't know for certain what my MMR is (the game never has and probably never will allow you to see your own MMR) but I can infer that I am at high MMR based on the killers I verse. I've versed killer main streamers such as D34D Plays a fair number of times who must have high MMR considering their kill rates. And I see Starstruck Nurses a LOT. In fact the day after Wesker released I was getting more Nurses again than Weskers by a landslide and a lot of them were Starstruck ones who would dominate in their games. So naturally if I'm getting matched with high kill rate killers I'm going to assume I'm at the MMR survivor equivalent to get matched with them to begin with. But there isn't any way for me to know for sure. All I know is that this build is common for Nurses. It certainly gets a lot of attention on the forums.
So in turn the build does have a high pickrate, a pickrate which is exclusive for Nurses and no other killer in the game. Why? Because when the build isn't countered when versing other killers, it still has limited utility. A killer that can see the aura of an exposed survivor still has to catch them. But any other killer in the game would have to close the distance on that survivor, deal with survivor defenses such as pallets, windows, and LOS breakers that can cause them to lose the survivor. The survivor is given time to recognise that they are exposed and either hide or get as much distance from the killer as possible to deincentivise the chase. Nurse doesn't have this problem. When she sees your aura, she has a LOS directly to you and can blink straight to you, regardless of the distance put between her and the survivor or the defenses that survivor has, and one shot you. This is maybe at most ten or so seconds after she puts someone on the hook. And because she gets her power back very quickly she can snowball with this to other nearby exposed survivors. So the only counterplay, unlike every other killer in the game, is to avoid becoming Starstruck altogether, and this is difficult when the Nurse has Agitation and you are unsure of where she is going to hook someone and in turn which area to stay away from to avoid going into her larger TR. Not to mention how on like you say maps like Gideon and Midwich, which the killer can burn and guarantee every time, it is outright impossible to avoid altogether.
And if you happen to go into her TR for even a second, you are exposed for another 30. If your aura is revealed at any time in that period you may as well be a free hook. No other killer in the game can say that. And it is all thanks to this particular build on this particular killer where the only thing you can do to not be one shot and/or slugged is to essentially avoid her for the entire game and hide your aura via lockers. It doesn't even have to be that consistent. A few quick downs via Starstruck or one slug snowball is enough to usually throw the game into your favor to the point you have won. Especially on a killer as powerful as Nurse.
I'm not going to think that say Legion needs to be nerfed because it's possible to have a 150+ winstreak with them. It is the nature at which these games are won that matters to me. And the OP nature of Starstruck Nurse is just something that allows games to be ended far too easily and quickly and sticks out like a sore thumb when compared to literally every other killer and playstyle in the game. The devs do consider it a problem or at least something that must be considered when regarding game balance because AA was nerfed purely because of how well it synergised with an already incredibly strong Nurse playstyle. AA is not a problem anywhere else. But they are going about it in the wrong way and instead of nerfing the culprit, Starstruck Nurse, they are balancing perks in line with how powerful they would be with said build. How else do you explain the AA nerf before the chapter dropped?
This is why I think the build is unhealthy for the game. It already offers little counterplay and is little risk of whiffing for very high reward. It has gotten to the point where new perks are now being balanced PURELY around a single build for a single killer out of a 29 killer roster and over eight pages of killer perks. Ignoring the problem now only means that this trend will continue and limit perk design space further.
I myself am curious as to why you are so reluctant to have Nurse changed to compensate for the power level such a build can give her. Making blinks special attacks or even only chain blinks secondary attacks keeps the build strong while not allowing it to absolutely dominate once it gets going. What's the harm in that?
(I'm absolutely exhausted typing all that out by the way. I hate debating about Nurse more than I actually do versing her.)
Post edited by LittleBigSunset on4 -
You made some really good points. But now I think you should take a break or have some lunch. Suzu has apologised and I'm done responding to this thread.
I'm going to have some toast now. Cheers!
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