Is Hyperfocus Actually Problematic?
WHAT IS THE POINT IN THIS POST?
The whole point in the post is to focus on different points and provide my perspective. Since I know the community is very divided in opinions, and a lot of people like to feed into an "Us VS Them" mentality, this post is going to avoid that entirely, Im not here to belittle or attack a single side, I am here to look perk and arguments brought up for and against the perk (based on what Ive seen online).
That being said, I play both sides, and I dont consider myself to be a main to either side since I avidly play both sides. With a very neutral perspective, I will look at both sides. I know someone will think my opinion is bias, and in a sense, while I do have a neutral perspective, not having some level of bias is completely unavoidable. Anyone who plays this game will have some opinion that differs and there is no "right opinion". Keep this in mind going forward.
WHAT IS HYPERFOCUS?
After hitting a great Skill Check while repairing or healing, this perk gains 1 token, up to 6 tokens. Each token increases the chance of a Skill Check trigger by 4%, the Skill Check cursor speed by 4% and the bonus progression for great Skill Checks by 30% of its base value.
HOW IS IT POTENTIALLY PROBLEMATIC?
Hyperfocus modifies the great Skill Check bonus for generator repairs allowing for 30+ seconds to be cut from generator repair times when paired with Stakeout's great Skill Check bonus. Toolboxes can further make this combo stronger since it increases the chance of triggering a Skill Check.
"HYPERFOCUS ISNT PROBLEMATIC"
"You need to be good at hitting skill checks to gain the benefits of Hyperfocus."
- Hyperfocus can be paired with Stakeout to remove a lot of the risk and skill needed for the perk to have it's usage. Rewarding skill is fine, but other factors always need to be in consideration. And there is no reason to not run Stakeout when Hyperfocus directly benefits from the extra progression anyways.
"You have to waste 15 seconds perk Stakeout token, so you waste an entire minute not doing generators. It isn't practical to get all tokens."
- Stakeout gains tokens whenever you are within the killer's terror radius while not in chase. I think people forget that you still gain tokens passively for a variety of reasons, so you aren't necessarily wasting your time. But at least there is still a setup required at least.
- Just to name some activities... If you are healing a teammate within the terror radius, you will still gain tokens passively. Even cleansing Hex totems or other activities still grant tokens as long as you aren't in chase. And even in chase, sometimes the game makes you leave chase so you gain more progress for Stakeout tokens.
"Whatever Hyperfocus can accomplish, the same can be done with other items and perks."
- Just because something else can do it does not make it anymore acceptable, it only leaves more room for issues, especially when considering how this effect can be stacked with said items and perks mentioned. "Just because ____ can do it means I can do it" is always a poor argument anyways.
"You have to put all your cards on the table for something like this to work."
- Hyperfocused and Stakeout are two perks, you aren't putting everything on the line to get that increased generator progress. Furthermore, even if you do bring a dedicated build for generators, the return versus the investment is not balanced, especially when the investment/entry to be able to do this is lower than before thanks to decreased item prices and cheaper bloodwebs. It's really not that hard to get a strong toolbox nowadays.
"HYPERFOCUS IS PROBLEMATIC"
"Hyperfocus requires no setup to get the reward."
- You still need to build up stacks of Stakeout to get the most out of the perk so there isn't "no setup required" to get the benefits of it. But just because it requires a setup, it most be noted that you aren't entirely useless, but again, at least some setup is required.
"This can be abused by Survive With Friends to make the game incredibly unfair."
- Any argument in regards to how strong something is with SWF always has to consider the fact that SoloQ exists. If you want the game to be balanced around SWF, you need to have SoloQ up to the level of SWF that way it doesn't harm SoloQ directly. Game balance is not as cut and dry as "strong with SWF = nerf" because that would objectively be a horrible idea considering the current state of the game.
IS HYPERFOCUS ACTUALLY PROBLEMATIC?
Yes, but not to the extent everyone thinks. The numbers just need to be toned down slightly, and the effect needs to not work with toolboxes for it to be in a balanced state. I dont want to see the perk completely useless, but I dont want it to be in a state I consider to be unbalanced.
I really feel as if a lot of people went out of their way to try and make this perk seem stronger than it really it. A lot of people also went out of their way to really downplay the strength of the perk itself. And I dont think there will be a conclusion with this that everyone will be happy with as a result, but Im fine with that, since I did my best to look beyond bias as much as possible to provide a conclusion that at least I am happy with.
Please keep things civil if you make a response.
Comments
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What a pleasantly formatted post. What a thoughtful and considerate argument/point. A higher quality post than this forum deserves!
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Ow.
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I wish you had the bloodpoint totals the bp offerings wouldnt seem worth it on a gen rush squadbuild like that
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I think they should just not make it work with Toolboxes. No need to change the numbers. Any less number will probably make it useless
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I do have them but I cropped them out because it wasn't important to the silly post I wanted to make.
Top guy got 23K bottom guy got 21K
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I did briefly mention generator speed-up stacking being problematic, however I feel as if I should make an entirely different post about generator speed-up and regression in the future. I have some thoughts regarding it that I still need to find the proper way to express.
Just typing the original post took be a few hours to find the right words I wanted to use, and even then I still kind of feel as if it might be missing a few small things here and there. Im not really the best with words, so finding the right medium to not cause conflict between the divided DBD community AND express what I wanted was very challenging.
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It is fine in my opinion. Perks do not need to be nerfed just because they are viable and we will never achieve any semblance of build diversity with that attitude.
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I'm gonna try to stay neutral, so if good players of a character can overperform with a tool given to them then said tool or character may need to be looked at.
Either apply the last paragrph to both factions or none.
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I've been trying out this pair since it came out with mixed success.
Stakeout comes with its own risks - and that is being in the terror radius of a killer, which can indeed be comfortably large like Wesker, or too small to comfortably use - like Death Slinger and Huntress, or non-existant with stealth killers.
Then you need uninterrupted time to chain greats. Anything that messes with skill checks like killer perks - Jolt, Distressing, Scourge Hooks, the killer personally coming by to say hi, etc. that cause you to stop the chain of great checks. Maps highly affect these perks as well - obviously multi-floor maps are best.
Yes, it is beautiful when it all comes together - but for the cost of two perks that isn't as often as some people would like you to believe. Replies to posts like this assume you somehow always have 4 tokens at no cost to risk or time, and can nail out great skill checks like they were nothing. Doctors would like to have a word about that.
Then there's the problem with getting those first skill checks - you can sometimes go through an entire gen with only a few checks. Hyperfocus helps speed that up - again if you are able to chain those greats together reliably that become faster and faster to make.
I found it fun to use in dangerous gen situations with a killer nearby - but can also feel like a waste in other cases. It makes doing gens somewhat more interesting than just holding M1.
The only problem is with SWF (of course swf is always a problem - if you're intention is to get every perk rendered useless because of them and make trash experience soloq even more trash - than devs are already on their way with this path). And with toolboxes since they trigger more skill checks. If toolboxes didn't work with the perk like Autodidact doesn't work with heal kits than I feel that is an acceptable nerf to this combo.
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I always find it funny that people say "you need to dedicate a whole build to it" when in reality as survivor you don't need ANY perks to play normally, especially now with basekit BT. Hell most of my builds are just 3 perks for whatever and then Off the Record
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I definitely don't think it's problematic in solo queue. The only potential problematic situation would be in SWF. However I believe that there are two changes that they could make to this perk that would solve this issue. The first is, as others have suggested, to make it not work with toolboxes.
The second change I propose might be a bit more controversial but I believe that it would prevent SWF abuse without killing the perk for solo queue. And that change is: for every extra instance of this perk brought into a trial, the progression bonus from this perk is decreased by a stacking 25% debuff for all survivors using this perk, up to a maximum of 75%.
Therefore if a team of 4 is coordinating with this perk they won't get nearly as much value with a 75% perk progression bonus decrease, but if two people in solo queue just happen to both be running this perk they won't be overly punished with a mere 25% perk progression bonus decrease.
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No that Otz dude is just another Tru3 idk why we have fog whisperers In dbd all they do is stir the pot
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I've been running hyperfocus and stakeout and I enjoy the combo a lot. It's very satisfying to continue to hit greats at increasing speeds to break up the monotony of doing gens. Stakeout also serves as an information perk letting you focus on skillchecks until you start to get a visual cue.
Do I think it's a problem? Not necessarily. You could make the argument that streetwise/built to last has a similar effect with a good toolbox. Hyperfocus losing its tokens the second you let go of the gen keeps it in check in my opinion. Stealth killers can weaken the combo significantly having no TR.
On top of every gen rushing assistance in the game? Sure, but that's not hyperfocus/stakeout being the contributing factor, it's the combination of everything.
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I'm not even sure it's toolboxes that are the problem.
The problem is that the 1% bonus granted from stake out, hyperfocus considers part of the base progress.
So if you run just hyperfocus great skill checks will grant:
1, 1.3, 1.6, 1.9, 2.2, 2.5, 2.8
If they were stacking correctly, and you had them both, it would be:
2, 2.3, 2.6, 2.9, 3.2, 3.5, 3.8
However, the way it is stacking currently it is instead:
2, 2.6, 3.2, 3.8, 4.4, 5.0, 5.6
Let's say you get 10 skill checks with each of these setups because of a toolbox.
Just hyperfocus would save 19.5 seconds, strong but very difficult and requires your item.
If they were stacking correctly, they would save 28.5 seconds. Strong, but still requires your item and 2 of your perks.
But now we look at how it's currently functioning. 39.1 seconds saved. Overpowered as hell.
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Considering the different things a killer can do like slug at 5 gens while having a full blown slow down build dedicated to slow the game down as much as possible for them, I think the perk is fine.
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My prediction: This perk is the reason why they added ten seconds to all gens.
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A gen rush perk that rewards seasoned players with insane gen completion speeds is definitely not problematic design in DbD lmao
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survivors dont pip in red ranks if the game is over too fast.
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Perk needs to be looked at, a slight increase i can see but not to the point hyperfocus can currently give you. I personally dont see why they needed to add another perk that speeds up gens tho, there's already multipule perks in the game that do that.
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Time for Gearhead to shine fellas!
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Hyperfocus? No.
Hyperfocus with Stake Out, BtL, Streetwise, Commodious Toolbox with Wire Spool and Scraps? Yes.
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This is a nurse main origin story
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As it is, Hyperfocus is potentially strong but nothing I would consider problematic. How many people actually consistently bring this build? Because I haven't seen any. I tried this build for a few matches, and while gens do go faster, they ended up the same way as always, 4k. lol
Sure, let's nerf Hyperfocus, so we can have yet another survivor perk added to the pile of dumpster. 95% of survivor perks are useless, and adding more to that category. And counting.
Then people act surprised when nobody wants to play solo Q
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I consider myself a killer main, but I think this perk is fine.
- First of all, you don’t need hyperfocus + stack out to slam gens, especially in swf. If survivors wants a 4min game, they will have it and everyone will get 10k BP. This won’t change even if you remove these perks.
- This perk makes skill checks fun and skillful. Yesterday, Otz tried to prove how busted this combo was during stream, all he did was making gens explode (and got no value), saying things like "so if this was jolt instead of me failing the skill check, I would have repaired this gen in 85s", please…if anything he proved this perk can be a killer perk in the wrong hands. And I consider Otz a good player.
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I swear if all this complaining about Hyperfocus somehow leads the devs to nerfing Stake Out instead, ima be sad.
Tapp is one of only a handful of survivors that has three solid teachable perks. He doesn't deserve to be done dirty like that.
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I like to use Hyperfocus in itself without anything else because it helps me practice hitting Great skillchecks more often and rewards it, without really removing anything if I fail.
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The problem comes with its synergies with Stake Out and toolboxes. Personally I would remove those interactions and make less punishing hitting good skillchecks.
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I wouldn't worry about it until we start seeing it all the time. For right now, Prove Thyself is being played all the time, way more than Hyperfocus/Stake Out, probably because it's easier to pull off: you just equip the perk.
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Oof, I know your feelings. The first player should at least have put BNP first, this is disgusting to look at! Smh, some people got no style.
But on a side note, did you feel it ingame? Did the gens just fly left and right? I guess so :)
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I do believe it's too strong. It should be a high risk high reward perk but i don't really see the risk aspect of it. Sure you do loose the stacks if you don't hit a great skillcheck but until then most of the time the perk already gave you alot of value especially combined with stakeout so it doesn't really matter. And let's be honest, hitting great skillchecks is not even that hard if you really focus on them and it gets even easier if you play on PC because you can run on 120 FPS and disable v-sync wich reduces your input delay dramatically.
We already had toolboxes and BNP so if survivors felt the need to go ham on gens you already had this option. I don't really see why we needed another tool for that.
Making gen speeds slower just to release a gen rush perk weeks later locked behind a paywall gives me a bitter taste of pay 2 win.
But thats my personal opinion.
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They need to fix the bug with stake out and rework toolboxes
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This is exactly the build I used for the first time yesterday against a Nurse with someone who DC'd immediately upon hearing her scream, and it was so OP all three of us escaped.
I LOVE IT.
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Its literally everything a survivor switches to use....Its a true neverending story. At some point survivors will be running no perks and killers will still find a way to say something needs to be nerfed
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We're tired of the same survivor perks!
Survivors: *uses different perks that are required together to successfully use*
We're tired of the same survivor perks!
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if they have to nerf hyperfocus, i guess they could make so you have to hit great skill check regardless of other perks ( you would still get the bonus from great skill check but hyperfocus still resets)
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Simply make Hyperfocus not stack with everything and done.
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In my opinion, the Build only really works with Stakeout since only a very few people will be able to hit Great Skill Checks on a constant basis to avoid losing Hyperfocus-Stacks. And currently, we have two things way more often than usual - a new Killer with a 40m-Terror Radius and small Maps appearing more often in the Rotation (both RPD-Maps are pretty small). This means that you get Stake Out-Stacks pretty easily, which helps to avoid losing Hyperfocus-Stacks.
I would guess, once either Wesker becomes less popular (he will probably be one of the more popular Killers, same like Nemesis) and once RPD becomes less common that the Hyperfocus-Build will become less.
Like, I tested this build and on RPD against Wesker I was able to get a lot of Stake Out-Stacks, but when playing on Haddonfield against an Artist, it was less common to have Stacks.
Overall, I hope the Devs give it some time before they think about a Nerf. Because when you want Perk Diversity, you have to allow some builds to exist for a while, otherwise you will not achieve this.
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The default time for two survivors working on the same generator is 52.94 seconds, and one person with a hyperfocus build can solo a generator faster than that. It absolutely does need a nerf.
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yall can get rid of all the progression idc i just like the ding noise you get from skill checks its like a fun game to play while doing boring gen stuff
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fair pentimento adds like 25 second to every gen for free so a perk that potential takes that away seems fair especially when you gotta use a tool box and 2 perks
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its should be like autodidact where it only works while genning normally
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Honestly, ive seen it run with stakeout, PtS, BtL and Hyperfocus with the toolboxes. I do think its an issue with SwF, but issue with this build is no endurance/speed perk, which means if you ######### up or get out played by the killer and hooked, not many tools outside of your disposal. It def is powerful for gen rushing, but you have to be good at looping and playing stealthily to pull it off in Solo. Again, SwF is a different monster entirely, and thats going to be rough as ######### unless your like, skillcheck doctor, or are running pentimento.
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Honestly, I haven't noticed anything. Maybe I just haven't been paying attention or I'm just that good (probably not that latter.) Honestly, I think it's fine. It's a perk for people who are very confident in your ability to hit skill checks. That's fine, just not a perk for me because I can only hit a Great Skill Check without Stakeout once in a blue moon.
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Cross-referencing a different comment of mine: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3169558#Comment_3169558
Hyperfocus by itself is problematic only insofar that it is not nearly good enough to be used. Hyperfocus alongside Stake Out is okay, good enough to be used. Those two perks alongside a toolbox and BTL/SWF are busted.
The numbers of the perk don't have to be toned down, they only need to make it not work while repairing with a toolbox. Alternatively they could also "fix" the Stake Out synergy (Stake Out gives extra bonus progression on every great skill check even if you land it yourself, it does so regardless of having tokens or not, and it modifies the base value that Hyperfocus scales off of - changing any 1 of these 3 aspects of the perk would make the perk combo much less potent), then it would be decidedly less ridiculous with a toolbox as well.
Things that increase gen repair speed are always bound to be sort of problematic, but one reason why I like Hyperfocus is that it makes repairing gens more engaging of an activity, and that it also makes toolboxes more worthwhile again. Toolboxes are mostly only viable in SWF anymore if you stack multiple of them, the impact a singular survivor can have using one is seldomly that notable. So my ideal solution would be this: Make it so that Stake Out turning a good into a great skill check does not award the extra bonus progression SO otherwise awards (this way players have to actually hit greats to get the full combined benefit of SO and Focus), and make it only award extra bonus progression on great skill checks as long as it has at least 1 token. As a little buff to compensate for this nerf, the extra bonus progression on SO could scale with the amount of tokens on it then, with .5% for every token sounding reasonable (or 1% per token if you make it not modify the base value that Focus looks at). For the issue of SWF stacking this and other stuff, the solution has always been to limit any perk and item/add-on to one instance between any player in a group.
Post edited by zarr on0 -
it's ok they gave you two bp offerings 111!!!11!!
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But Pentimento needs totems to be cleansed
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After watching Otz do Hyperfocus builds yesterday, the 37 second solo gen seems extreme. One solo test was only 76 seconds after completely blowing a skillcheck. Another test was him wasting time farming Stakeout stacks. Not only that but you spend 12 seconds waiting for Built to Last.
After watching all those tests it doesn't seem like Hyperfocus has any great value realistically.
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By itself? No. When combined with stake out and toolboxes? Kinda. Personally think it should've been a healing perk. We don't need anymore gen speed perks in dbd.
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You completely ignored the entire point in the post but pop off I guess. You literally are feeding into that "Us VS Them" I mentioned in the beginning.
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He has a point. Survivors can't get a useful perk without the usual scream of doom that survivors are trying to escape. Killers get extremely oppressive perks all the time to change their builds. Killers stack perks together to totally oppress survivors into a guaranteed "loss". It seems rather selfish to say two perks working together might be a problem when killers stack perks all the time.
Survivors need way better perks than what they have. Hyperfocus needs a buff. Why does it reset for finish a gen? Folks on a controller has to have reflexes like a fly to hit it!
When comparing to a similar perk for killer, Save The Best for Last: killers can swing, miss, and still retain their stacks. Survivors are not getting enough reward from it when compared to killers. So it is not a problem but it needs buffed slightly so it doesn't lose stacks and it shouldn't speed up so fast making it impossible for consoles to hit it.
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