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"The Devs are balancing around SWF"
Ate they, though?
I don't think they are, but I'm interested in reading some takes on the matter!
Comments
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From what I've seen of their changes over the past year+ they've slowly been getting solos more info & coordination possibilities, with the end goal that it won't matter if you go solo or in a SWF. Bit by bit this seems to be happening imo.
Whether or not that is the correct approach is another topic entirely.
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If they are, they shouldn't be. No one should be required to install another application and be social to be able to play an enjoyable version of this game. Also, 4-person SWFs are far less common than solo or solo + partial SWF combinations, so balancing around them is not advisable.
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Yeah I mostly play duo it's better than solo but it's not huge difference. If my friend is chased and im on hook sometimes other teammates leave me to die on it... when I just played 3 man swf we had default dwight healing with self care in furthest corner of the map.
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Well, they are clearly not balancing the game around soloQ players, so i dont know what criteria they are using to balance the game.
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IMO they are. They are pushing killer to be able to more effectively deal with a swf team, or a team that is good with coordination. It is the best choice for the devs to do after all, you will NEVER get rid of SWF, and trying to do some idea where they are punished just hurts BHVR, no game should punish you for playing with friends whether you are trying super hard to win or not. Bad business design.
I don't even see any other idea of why people would think otherwise lol all the facts point this way. The devs are even working on trying to give solo queue some way of communication with symbols putting them at least somewhat closer to swf, and we have been getting only killer buffs for like a year. Even the fabled basekit buffs that were asked about forever.
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Soul guard nerf, original boon auras stacking nerf for circle of healing, object of obsession nerf all imply that they are watching what swfs do and toning down the worst things that pop up. It's definitely not a regular thing though I would say.
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No, they're not balancing around SWFs. They balance for casual solo players, whether they do a good job at that is something different though. Saying they balance the game around SWF implies they balance for the highest percentiles, and we all know this game isn't balanced around the top. SWF & Nurse are the two biggest bottlenecks in balancing DBD though since we're on that topic
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If you ask me, for the last two or so years, they've been trying to balance around killers, whilst trying to bridge the gap between SWFs and Solos by buffing Solos, whether it has been working is a separate subject matter though. I
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What they added to the game does seem like SWF's have the balance
But the perk changes seem to be something I haven't been able to pin down...
I'm going to hold off until I see what else they do
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If they felt the kill rate in the low 50%'s wasn't high enough, well that's a pretty indicative comment. Most likely, the kill rates at the upper levels where survivors simply have uncompetitive resource advantages were way too low. This could lead many, including myself, to assume that they're at least attempting to balance around SWF.
Edit: And then you get people like AJ who's like "They can't be, Nurse exist!" - completely dismissing the reality that kill rates are probably significantly worse the higher you climb.
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They balance exclusively around solo players despite SWF being in the game for years, which is why SWF is consistently overpowered.
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Overcharge got nerfed after the PTB, specifically because it was "particularly noticeable with solo Survivors who aren’t able to communicate that their nearly completed generator is regressing"
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Why are you namedropping me out of everybody here as if I said something outlandish? You also didn't even quote me correctly on top of that, you twisted what I said for a fake quote
Nurse and SWF are the two biggest bottle-necks in balancing the game which is the only thing I even said about Nurse. The second half to that remark Just sounds like a random projection cuz I didn't mention anything else concerning Nurse or Killer beyond my one simple sentence. You have no idea what my stance is on the topic of kill-rates or the food chain between Solo/Killer/SWF
You just randomly wanted to attach me to a talking point of yours, even though it has nothing to do with what I said
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Not only do they clearly balance the game for SWF, but they balance it for Discord SWFs, and probably for ridiculously high level of play that I doubt even your casual SWF will achieve.
"Save the best for last" is a good example. Just today Mandy commented that STBFL is balanced because the obsession should see that the killer has it and bodyblock for her teammates so that the killer lose stacks. I'm sorry but if that is not a ridiculously idealistic view of how people play the game then I don't know what is. How are you even supposed to communicate to the obsession that the killer has STBFL if you're not on Discord? Literally the goal of the perk is to avoid the obsession as killer, so is the obsession supposed to stop working on gens from time to time to proactively check if the killer has STBFL? Then bodyblock for them, in solo queue, the environment where half the time you will get camped / tunneled for doing so, and your teammates will let you die?
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It had plenty to do with what I said, which is why I namedropped you. I didn't quote you because I didn't feel like engaging with you, based on your first post. Hence, as an example only.
If you have a problem with that, deal with it.
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Its almost like we could just bridge the solo q gap by making the social features basekit.
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Dont play multiplayer games so.
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So you misquoted me and attached me to a mindset that I don't even have because you think it had some similarity to your comment, weird flex but sure. You didn't actually process the simple sentence I wrote...You, a Nurse enjoyer just saw me write her name and instantly leaped to strong conclusions about how I view her or the game's balance. If what I said actually related to your point about SWF at all then you would have expanded more on that instead of your empty last response. Also, if avoiding engagement with somebody is your goal then you probably shouldn't go out of your way to use their name in bad faith while twisting their words. I don't care if you namedrop, I'm just telling you to at least do it correctly if that's how you're gonna roll
Is this not you right here ^^^ days ago in another thread saying the same exact thing I said? The game is not balanced specifically for SWF and you said it yourself. When people talk about SWF they're not talking about Tammy and Timmy the rookies playing with coworkers once every few weeks, they're talking about the 4 man with 5k hours each that play together every night on Discord. You just said 5 days ago they aren't balancing around a 4 stack though... Now you're over here mocking me for saying the same ***t in a different way
Make up your mind
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They "balance" around killrates. And that is all I think.
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Is this lover's quarrel a 'Hooked on You' DLC?
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you mean the argument between Aj and Fox?
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Weird chapter name.
At least it's free @_@
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There's no argument here. I'm (not) dealing with a child.
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Distinct threads with different objectives. I also regularly play devil's advocate. I am sure you can find multiple comments in my history to support that. Take your gotchya moment if that's what you need to get over this conversation.
Everything else you wrote was way too long considering I'm not even interested in what you first put forth. Chill, guy.
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You could do better things, like engaging with the on-topic responses in the thread.
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This is the appropriate response.
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BHVR has made it very clear that swf survival rates have "little to no discernable difference compared to solo players" so of course they're balancing around swf and solo.
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Can you find the quote? I'm pretty sure it's not what they said. IIRC what they said is that the chances of winning of a SWF and a solo at the same MMR are roughly the same. The wording is very important here (and imo it makes the stat pointless). If MMR is constant then of course the chances of winning are going to be the same, I mean, that's exactly what MMR is supposed to do...
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They are balancing around VERY high SWF. The majority of SWF are not very sweaty and are casually playing the game. This is why their stats are misleading. There was another thread about how stats are a huge lie and it is because the top percent that plays so much in a sweaty SWF might actually be escaping a little more than half the time which increases the survival rates to an abysmal 39%. Everyone else based on my best guess has about a 10-15% chance of winning.
They are actually have the game balanced around bad killers = SWF. Solos only win when the killer makes tons of mistakes, doesn't tunnel, plays nicely, and gives everyone 2 hooks. People that say solos are capable of winning. You have to look at how bad the killer is. Survivor skill is meaningless.
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Top percentile or tangible impact on stats?
Can't have it both ways.
Not if you know how statistics work, anyway.
Huge fan, still, though.
Papa bless.
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"The average SWF group, which makes up the vast majority of SWF groups, has little to no discernable difference compared to solo players (within a few %)."
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From someone who mainly plays solo q, I hope not. The team dynamics are just too different between SWFs and solos.
Take wins/losses. In a SWF, sacrificing 1 person on hook for the good of the group and getting gens done still feels like a win because everyone is working as a unit and a victory feels like everyone’s victory. In solo q, sure I want my teammates to get out and do well but what makes the match feel like fun is what I was able to do in the game.
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Take my gotchya moment? The only reason I even addressed you at all is because you tried to randomly make me the center of yours, hypocrite
"Everything else you wrote was way too long considering I'm not even interested in what you first put forth"
You aren't interested enough to understand the short sentence I wrote but you're interested enough to twist the words in it and use my name? Make it make sense. Its always funny seeing people instigate little small things and then try to act like its beneath them afterwards. You have a lot of excuses and replies for somebody that's supposedly uninterested by the way. I'm not dealing with a child! - Says the child, usually
Go ride off on your digital high-horse and be a pseudointellectual somewhere else
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I'll ride where I like, thanks.
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Thanks, I hadn't see this paragraph, but I still have doubts over what is exactly said here. They are saying that the escape rate of players in the middle of the Bell curve, is very close regardless of whether they play in SWF or solo, right? Then, isn't that just due to MMR?
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I think the new upcoming update answers the OP's question pretty convincingly! Like others and I had mentioned, they balance mainly for the casual solos while sprinkling on band-aids for SWF and Killer afterwards down the road. This ain't balanced for SWF
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It will certainly be interesting to give it a whirl on the PTB!
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