Feels like people are freaking out about the base kit Unbreakable way too preemptively.
I feel like people are freaking out about this change way too early, no one has even got a chance to test it yet people are already on their way to writing 400 forum posts claiming that BHVR only cares about the Survivor side. The funny thing is there have been so many examples of this happening in the past. One of the earliest examples I can think of off the top of my head is way back during the Oni PTB where Killers were freaking out about Any Means Necessary, talking about how it was gonna "destroy the game" and low and behold after a week the perk was (and still is) dead in the water. After that in the Silent Hill PTB people freaked out about Soul Guard, and like the last example after a week it was (and once again still is) dead in the water. In more recent times people have freaked out about all the Killer buffs in the 6.1.0 acting as if it would render survivor completely unplayable, and once again, despite some issues here and there with the update, the update turned out to be great for the game. There are also many other examples like Reassurance, Power Struggle, Lucky Break, Smash Hit, Boon: Exponential, Built to Last, and For the People. All of these perks received a ton of backlash the moment they were shown off, yet not long afterward people would calm down and realize that they weren't even that good. I feel like people need to give the changes at least a chance before they go flying off the handle and screaming at BHVR.
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I've been saying that too. Said it on twitter that this could be a cool change if we give it a chance. Then I get hit with "it could be really cool to give one of the strongest survivor perks basekit? lmfao yeah no" They literally said this was to test and see what needed to be changed since this isn't coming in the next patch and HERE WE HAVE PEOPLE BEING SO NEGATIVE DESPITE THE FACT WE JUST GOT THIS NEWS TODAY!
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Whenever x side gets something nice, "THE DEVS ONLY CAREZ ABOUT DA X SIDE."
I have my concerns, but I'll give the PTB a whirl :)
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An infinitely usable unconditional self-pickup with no actual downsides is fundamentally a terrible idea. Know what is the counter balance for an infinitely usable pickup? Being permanently Broken all game, or the killer having a Hex and it having to stay alive which is its own barrel of risks.
It can also put the killer into a lose-lose where either they make the smart call and slug because others nearby or limited time effects and thus are punished by losing the down despite literally making the smart decision. Or they end their power early and/or lose a ton of time remaining or give the other survivors time to run away just so they can hook.
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You can figure out the issues with it if you think about it with your mindbrain a little. Unbreakable already exists. One of the best perks in the game. Can turn around an entire match. Now just use those established parameters and apply them to every survivor, all the time. The fallout is evident.
I don't need to walk into the ocean to know that I'll get wet. I've been rained on and it's the same substance in the ocean that comes from the sky. Just a little bit of deductive reasoning shows what'll happen.
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It's pretty freakout worthy considering that there are several killers whose power is predicated on slugging, and a powerful SWF strategy whose only counter is slugging.
The perk that let you do this once has been meta since its inception. Making it infinite forever is a bit... insane? There were less destructive ways to fix the endless slugging issue.
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I do think people are being a tad bit dramatic as if bhvr is about to release it as is next week. However, with it still being worked on, we should let our concerns be known. If their new Mori system necessitates survivors getting unbreakable for free, maybe that's a sign the Mori system needs to be thought about a little more? If they want to keep the current system, maybe that means they have to have the unbreakable only activate during the last survivor standing phase. Maybe they should rework the perk unbreakable into something else so that recovery speed doesn't mean free unlimited 20 seconds pickups for everyone.
There's plenty of ways to make it not broken. The way it's current described is extremely broken.
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I do agree that the freak out is probably overblown. The 45 seconds base time frame may need to be adjusted upward to 60 or 75 or 90 seconds if it's too short, but it's too early to know. Honestly most games with most killers I find I slug maybe once or twice but that's about it so I don't see this impacting my own games a huge amount. I'll maybe have a bit less pressure when that happens but I doubt it'll be game crushing, certainly nothing to pull my hair out and scream over. We'll see how it goes. 🤷♂️
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this has always been the case, no matter what idea people or devs have there will be a lot of people complaining about them, I personally think I had to finish the unnecessary slug, but there could be other ways to solve this, like holding a button to to bleed on the floor and die as soon as he realized that the game had nothing else to do
but any idea that people give (including the one I gave) will generate controversy, you will see more people criticizing than encouraging, the DBD community is like that (unfortunately) but the devs will certainly launch a test of the idea for the people test, I confess that I didn't like the idea of the mori, because it takes the fun out of the game, me playing surv I like to see that offering with a hidden mori to scare me more, but that will end =/
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People need to properly test it and come to their own conclusions.
If you think the unbreakable basekit was not needed, you surely have not been bled out constantly just for griefing, or being slugged to ensure that 4k, which are awful situations that MUST BE ADRESSED.
Said that, i cant speak about the balance of this change until i properly test it in ptb, because many things can appear broken on paper.
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An easy fix to that situation is to allow survivors to give up if they are on the ground for too long. Survivors are already allowed to give up if they are on the hook, so it isn't like there isn't precedent for it. It would be infinitely more balanced than unlimited unbreakable.
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i never understand thit HORROR OF 4 MINUTES ON THE GROUND. Survs always speak of it as of some sort of unhuman torture. I remember before the edgame survs oftet did not leave the match literaly for like 15-20 minutes. They were just running around map and tbaging.
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Yes, it could. But i believe this change was to force the killer to keep moving and dont stall the game. Maybe the 45sec are low but i cant say until i test it.
Many killers dont bother slugging, some of them can grab you directly, not every killer will be affected.
And again, bear in mind that this change is in its earliest stages. Knowing behaviour it will be nerfed to the ground before it hits the live servers
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If you're slugging someone for 4minutes straight just trying to hunt others that's literally just a good play because it removes other players options entirely without help in its current state.
People slug because it's free pressure and doesn't use a killers time finding a hook while it baits out other survivors. It's easy and a boring time for 4/5 in the match
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There gotta be better ways to counter Slugging situations instead of giving survivors infinite Unbreakable basekit. As a killer im good, im average, i dont do well at loops but i make that lack up with unexpected gameplay or 3 gen tactic if i play with a weaker killer. Im not even someone who always sluggs for 4k, i dont tunnel right off the bat. And i NEVER camp because it bores me to stand around. But i get punished like hell if this goes live because all my abillitys to ensure pressure if i have overconfident squads trying to deny my first hook. You risk getting a 4 man down slug that way, with unbreakable basekit that play has no risk at all. Its gonna happen more and im not going to take it, ill rather play with the bots then when they finally find their way into DBD.
And dont get me started on SoloQ i will get more frustrated killers, i will not be able to make use out of Unbreakable Basekit because killer knows once he realizes its not an SWF he can hook without concern, leaving scenarios where you could crawl to a teammate and get picked up again, punishing a killer for unneccessary slugging, like 0. It will just get more sweaty for anyone but coordinated SWF.
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I really hope this changes makes people play survivor more. So i can play killer with bonus + fast queues. This will help to queues.
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It's not about current slugging. The problem is this Finishing Mori option of ending the game makes hooking less desirable. All slugged survivors or combo of slugged/hooked automatically ends the game. So there would likely be an increase in slugging over hooking, which will change the way alot of games go (ie. Survivors spending even longer on the ground, less gens getting done, less bloodpoints gained, etc). The basekit Unbreakable is a bandaid solution to this. They can't have the Finishing Mori without the basekit Unbreakable, it'll disrupt the game. They need killers to hook, it's the point of the game.
At this point, if too many people are unhappy the only real option is to do away with the Finishing Mori.
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Given how broken Unbreakable is when paired with other meta perks, I'd say the freak out is kind of warranted. Even more so with the fact that they're removing the ability to green or ebony mori survivors.
To me, these changes just prove that the devs don't play their game and if they do it's certainly NOT at high MMR or as killer.
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You really don't need to think much to understand how problematic it will be, even no mither has been abused in certain circumstance.
Luckily this is PTB and not actual game, at least BHVR CAN fix it... whether they DO it or not is different question.
Basically they made a fix for a problem they just created, seems strange tbh.
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Biggest takeaway from this thread. Quicker killer queue would be fantastic.
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I'll take waiting in queue for 30-60 seconds for a fun match over waiting in queue 5 seconds for a crap one.
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To each their own.
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"Basically they made a fix for a problem they just created, seems strange tbh"
That is exactly what they did. If the Finishing Mori proved this complicated I'm not sure why they even pushed ahead with it.
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They're testing it nice and early, while they're still working on it, and that's a good thing.
I will be curious to see how it goes on the PTB. The biggest issue I can foresee is that people already do trolly builds where they make themselves impossible to hook and then run either Unbreakable or No Mither so that, when you're forced to slug them, they can just get up again. If they really have unlimited pick-ups with the new system, they'll get even worse.
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If it was once per trial or it was a FLAT 45s that couldnt be reduced. It'd be fine, but it's neither, faster pickup speed reduces the timer, so your Unbreakable is the exact same, but you can now use it infinitely.
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i think this UN basekit should be able just out terror radius, because means killer slug you and he try fin other person, because, inside TR this un shouldnt work. Imagine, 2 survivors with flashlights around me, and i want pick up, what i will do? if i pick up, they save, if i try down another, i lose that survivor i downded already.
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There is a reason why most people think No Mither is a terrible perk.
No, it's just overreaction, like so much on these forums to be fair. Slugging simply won't be as strong anymore, but that is probably a good thing for the game. It's just weird for that to be addressed while camping and tunneling are still such a problem. But yeah, 45 seconds is quite a bit of time anyways, it won't be a big problem at all. It's definitely healthy for the game, just as nerfs to camping and tunneling would be.
Whether it might need some counterbalancing is to be seen, but honestly, I doubt it. It really won't have too much of an impact, it will probably hurt sweaty slugging Nurses the most, which is honestly a really good thing, cause that is just completely broken anyways.
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When used properly, 1 person running 1 Unbreakable and getting 1 use of it is enough to pick up an entire team and give them a second chance and bring them back from the brink.
The proposed changes give every survivor up to 5 Unbreakables each.
It's hard not to see a problem here.
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*23 seconds.
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Survivors cry about being slugged and it wasting their precious time but then sit at the exit gate and tbag until there is 1 second left every single game lol...
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You can accuse people that don't agree with you of not using their brains all you want, won't change the fact that it really is just an overreaction.
This basekit change is not like Unbreakeable. Unbreakeable let's you pick yourself up within like 25 seconds or so, this will take 45 seconds. That's quite the difference. It will really only nerf hard slugging multiple survivors at once, which in the long run, is also very healthy for the game. Maybe it will need some counterbalancing? But I seriously doubt it, actually.
I guess the only thing that makes this change not amazing to me is the fact that camping and tunneling are bigger problems that need more addressing. But who knows, maybe we will see some more changes in the coming update regarding at least camping as well, I would at least hope so.
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No Mither is a terrible perk despite having one of the strongest upsides because you lose a health state permanently. You don't lose a health state with this base kit unbreakable. That's the difference.
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23 seconds what?
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It's mostly because this is an out of the blue change
With the meta revamp, we were told in advance basekit changes were coming. No such thing for the original concept for finisher moris. All we were told was
"The last survivor is automatically mori'd"
not
"if all survivors are down or on hook, the game instantly ends" which is why basekit UB has been added because BHVR quite clearly doesn't want killers slugging all 4 survivors to instantly win because they know what'll happen; everyone will just run full anti-slugging builds and nothing else.
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It's not basekit unbreakable. It's basekit super unbreakable. This is far far stronger than UB ever was. And it doesn't need a perk slot. Survivor received a super buffed version of UB for free. Not a weakened version. A straight up uber-UB.
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And if you had just a bit of common sense and actual knowledge regarding ptbs, you'd know the devs wouldn't allow overly broken stuff in live servers. I swear you guys straight up neglected how they fixed the multi hit endurance ptb.
Also btw, you're making the exact same point op was talking about when people were jumping the gun on perks like Inner Strength and Soul Guard
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Yeah, so the survivor only players on this forum would totally not have a similar reaction if behavior just reduced the number of hooks to kill by 1?
Because that's how significant a 22 second self pick up is.
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It literally will not only affect slugging multiple survivors. When a survivor goes down under a pallet, when a survivor goes down in the open while a flashlight user is around, when a survivor goes down in a high place not near hooks with boil over. All of those are situations where you get shafted if you pick someone up right away, and that's not even mentioning the killers who rely on slugging like Plague, Myers, Twins and Oni.
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This change would mandate tunneling for killers to have the tiniest chance of getting at least a 3k against non bot survivors.
1 slug for pressure early game was a high risk strategy that applied enormous pressure across 3 survivors (1 to pick up, 1 to chase, 1 slugged).
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Yeah exactly. But the person I was replying to is that such a mechanic needs to be counterbalance by survivors being broken the entire match, which isn't true. Because No Mither is an incredibly bad perk.
Not to mention that it will take 45 seconds instead of 30 seconds to pick yourself up. It won't be op in any way, I am pretty positive. The new Unbreakeable perk is the only thing that will be problematic.
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Hard disagree. It shouldn't take you 45 seconds to find the nearby survivor that is trying to go for pallet for flashlight save.
And if the survivor went down in the middle of nowhere, you can just smack them down again as soon as they pick themselves up, unless they are running Soul Guard. The instance with Boil Over could maybe become a problem, but I doubt it. It's such a rarity, and Boil Over in general just isn't a good perk anyways.
I am positive this change will be healthy for the game.
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Ah, my bad I missed that.
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I mean considering this update was set for around halloween it isn't that early. Probably too late for them to cut their losses and consider this a bad idea. They need to go back to square one with this crap.
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I think boil over will become a lot more popular if the changes go through as they are. I also think that any of these situations should be considered with unbreakable, because it is very difficult to down a survivor in 22 seconds and make it back to the other survivor with anyone but Nurse. I do think the change could be a healthy one, but not without remedies to the other situations. I dread going up against SFWs if this goes through.
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i mean i also would like to know where they got that "moris used out of spite against certain survivors" from. it sounds like personal stuff. I at least havent heard any complaints about mori and ive been using them alot after the 6th anniversary stream, you'd expect much toxicy towards me if it was took personal but none, noone. Not because of Moris at least.
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at least let us have some hope left ^^''
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I'm sorry but I just got out of the overwatch clown fiesta and every time i see these sweeping game-play changes in any game I groan because I know the devs won't actually listen to feedback aside from basic number tweaking. I genuinely don't wanna bother playing the game anymore.
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Honestly if it goes live with any form of unbreakable basekit that is NOT endgame (all survivors hooked, 1 left, cause thats where the changes direct anyway right?) i will just wait for bots to finally come so i can play chill A.I sessions. Sure it will get boring but better have some ai dbd experiences now and then instead of sweatfest tournaments every online session. Youre not forced to play every day after all. So yeah ive alredy got an emergency plan for this x)
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Honestly may do the same. What got me into this game was my friends wanting to play swf and even though this update will reward swfs super hard im just not interested. I play both roles and i know how absolutely nerve wracking it is as killer to get at least two people on coms playing as strategically obnoxious as possible, doesn’t matter how. Seeing this update info by itself is crushing because I was just starting to enjoy killer again but i can see it becoming a miserable experience with this change that I dont think i can handle anymore.
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yeah and my only alternative to killer is soloQ x) which even after the 6.0.1 update still does feel sometimes more chill than killer but just because im not as invested in winning as survivor or because im used to get killed in the matches so it doesnt bother me. And my go-to survivor perks werent meta so the whole DH,DS and stuff didnt affect me either. But if killers get more and more frustrated oh boi. SoloQ is going to suffer even more.
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I'm personally concerned because while slugging can be used to BM and waste survivors' time it is also apart of any snowball killer's kit :(
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