Will they ever admit their mistake and remove COH?
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No.
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Its not that people undervalue the time wasted, its that the time itself is relative to the killer's time due to the potential of 4 vs 1, or even just the events that are occuring simultaneously. Time is extremely relative in this game, and if a survivor does a gen and then boons the totem next to it after, they have created a map pressure spot with a very high reward for 3 other people which the killer has to waste time abandoning their own pressure to deal with, at a sliding scale based on those circumstantial factors. It adds up massively and since CoH removes the second survivor requirement to healing with only 1/4 needing to even take the perk, its value in said calculation is extremely lopsided when used properly.
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I don't think it's quite that clear cut though. Yes, in a 'perfect' circumstance (all the survs have healed and are now out of the area) the Killer may have to abandon all other pressure to go snuff a totem. But the actual is play more Killer downs surv, hooks surv, this pulls someone off a gen to unhook, one or both go to boon to heal (generally not optimal on the latter, but I see it all the time), Killer either pressures them or is in the process of a chase with a 3rd surv, now only 1 is on a gen. If one goes to heal, it's now an easy down, or at the very least they're wasting time traveling, healing and traveling back and even in a dead area (meaning no gens to pressure ), then the Killer can if downed: choose to hook them again, granting another hook stage (getting them closer to a 3v1) or leave them to force someone to go pick up. If both go, then there's the potential for an easy down/hook and possibly getting a hit on uninjured surv. Or the Killer can choose to let them heal across the map in a dead zone and apply pressure to the other two survs, bringing another off the gen and potentially running across the map to try to get that sweet, sweet heal or also now on a hook.
And while time may be relative, one thing is pretty certain: the longer the game continues, the more it is to likely tilt into the Killer's favor because they're building more and more pressure while gens remain slow or static and surv resources such as items and pallets are used up.
A couple of other things are variables are that there's a decent change that a boon in a 'dead' area is also an area lacking pallets either because they've already been used (or will be used up quickly as survs run there to heal more than once) or just weren't there to begin with, those areas are typically further away from the gens that survs are trying to get completed (relative to map size oc), and most survs won't run halfway across the map to get a solo heal when they can do it with a teammate that unhooked them just as fast, if not faster because of travel time. A boon out in the middle of nowhere that no one will travel to becomes a wasted effort.
When you do add in aura reading perks and slow down perks, the effectiveness of COH further diminishes. Could the solo heal speed stand to be nerfed down some? Most likely, it does seem too fast to me, but I do wonder if that is in part due to the prevalence of Sloppy and whatever the new-ish perk is that can decrease all healing progress rather quickly if the heal isn't finished. But at the end of the day, if survs are constantly abandoning gens to go heal in some far flung corner of the map, I still think that gives a not insignificant amount of pressure to the Killer.
All that said, the prolonged war of attrition that COH can create (yes, it can slow down Killer hook progress, but it also slows down gen progress) is 'meh' in my opinion. Sometimes the games are good - hard fought on both sides - and sometimes I wish I didn't run empathy as much as I do because I want to groan every time I see a surv get slapped and immediately run off to heal as soon as the Killer's attention is somewhere else or as soon as they get pulled off a hook.
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Leave 👏 COH 👏 alone 👏 it’s 👏been 👏 nerfed 👏twice 👏 already
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Killer is already stupid easy from the buff killers recently received and you already want more? You want free wins, just say it.
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Learn where the bones are and bring shattered hope to watch CoH users cry.
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You also said base kit, there's no "pretty sure" your post is right there lol.
A "base kit perk" would be something like the built in BT survivors have, killers don't have base kit Shattered Hope. I'm just trying to clarify that and say what I think you're referring to is a general perk.
I didn't say anything in regards to any perk in particular besides saying I wish boons were breakable base kit. So I think your ire is a little misplaced there if that second sentence is directed at or including me.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
I disagree, but I think its more because you're focusing on how poorly the perk can be used and singling out the factors that can specifically minimize its impact. My argument was never about its average effectiveness, but rather how it can and is exploited to take advantage of (and create) lose/lose situations. Agree to disagree I guess.
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Always fine to agree to disagree. I've read some of your other posts as well and I figured we wouldn't see eye to on it. Just for the record, I don't generally disagree with your point of view, but I do believe that 'in practice' will always hold more weight that 'could be under the exact right/specific circumstances'. There's just too many perk combinations, map combinations, add-on combos and more that, imo, make 'exact circumstances' become such fringe cases that they really aren't that important.
And I would say, I'm not focused on how poorly it can be used (those are entirely different imo, such as a match I just had where a Feng felt it so important to bless a totem on the other side of the map while the other surv left was actively - and very obviously - in chase that by the time she'd finished, ran around the other side of the map and got to me, my hook timer ran out. This was after the first totem that she spent a huge amount of time trying to find and bless resulted in exactly one heal.) but on how I've seen it's use play out both in my matches and in the streams I watch. Very few teams are going to use COH 'perfectly', including SWFs. TBF, I don't consider anything akin to a comp surv team in my view of perks because those really are the outliers. I feel the same about killer perks because like the comp surv team these are people who could probably decimate almost anyone else with sub-optimal builds.
Anyhoo, thanks for the discussion.
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When I say base kit perk, I'm talking about a general perk that's available as a base perk like resilience. Sorry for the confusion that's my bad
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It doesn't feel in my games that Boon Totems are that much of an issue now.
Admittedly, when they were first introduced and they were healing at ridiculous speeds, I was really concerned for the game, but now they've been calmed down and perks such as Pentimento and Shattered Hope are around for people who especially are concerned with them, they have been changed to near-enough the right level of strength.
Maybe some tweaking, but I couldn't say why, what or how to, so they feel comfortable to me now.
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Shattered hope... isn't basekit, it's available for every killer, but it's not basekit
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the whole boon system shouldn't exist, it makes no sense to give the killer more tasks than they already have
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I think the simpliest thing to do is cap heal speeds so medkits dont stack with COH etc.
I have seen some people heal so fast its ridiculous.
It forces killers to camp / tunnel. Spreading pressure with 1 hits is impossible now.
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My only "issue" with boons as killer is not knowing where it is. The aura should maybe be visible for the killer like it is for Survivors
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CoH is so easily counterable, firstly the sound it makes is extremely loud so you can find it pretty fast. Also if you run Shattered Hope, you can see exactly where they're healing within the totem itself.
I love it when a team runs CoH or any boon totem. Just means I can find them easier and punish them for going out of their way to look for a totem to bless.
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Nerfed to the point where it takes an entire *2 seconds* longer to self heal and other assisted heals were affected even less.
This is not a nerf.
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Clearly you're not running Hag or Trapper. Boons get set way in the distance where the gens are already done and it's a huge trudge across the map only to hear the rebooning sound before you're halfway back to your trapped zone.
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Nope. They figure they've come too far to turn back now. We can come to a consensus that CoH and boons in general are a bad idea, and the devs still wouldn't budge, in the same way they haven't budged on Hillbilly's overheat.
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Yeah this logic is stupid.
If they gave a killer 500% movement speed, and nerfed it twice down to 250%, you wouldnt say leave it alone its been nerfed enough.
COH was so broken on launch saying its been nerfed twice is meaningless.
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