Petition To Either Create Ranked And Casual, OR Balance The Game Around SWF

Morteth · December 2018

the following is taken from the DBD Steam community general discussion.
Made by player weirdkid5

From Mathieu Cote himself, the reason why this game was balanced around Uncertainty Factors. This is this fundamental reason SWF breaks the game, and the devs have failed to support this fundamental:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH5jhyU6GjU

I wish to set forth a petition for the Devs to do as the title suggests. If you agree, please +1 below. Here is my argument:

What's Wrong
We need a change of pace in the game. Currently, the statistics show that a very large portion of players are always within at least a group with 1 other person. About 30% of the Playerbase are solo querers. From this game's inception, it was always balanced around the Survivors having 0 communication with each other. This is the reason perks like Bond, Empathy, Kindred, and the like exist. They exist to give you information that you otherwise do not have access to, such as teammate positions and, more importantly, the position of the Killer.

Using Voice Chat in Survive With Friends is Violation of Rule Number 5
What is Rule Number 5 you ask?

"5. Other hacks
Using 3rd party software or other tools to gain any kind of unfair advantage wasn’t intended by the game, except if they have been whitelisted by us. Heavy proof and a video recording is mandatory."

Whenever a group is using Survive With Friends, or SWF, they are typically using some form of Voice Chat software. This allows them to gain access to what are, essentially, free perks. In my honest opinion of playing both sides, this is a form of Cheating and using 3rd Party Software, a clear violation of the Rule Number 5 in the list of Bannable Offenses in the News & announcements section of the Dead by Daylight forum. This gives players access to the benefits of Bond, Empathy, Kindred, and even Deja Vu, as they can be informed of the Killer's position from anywhere on the map. Part of the balance was that you were always unaware, left wondering what the Killer is out there doing. Will he patrol you soon? Is he chasing someone? Or is Myers stalking you? It's supposed to be a horror game.

Unfortunately, we have a bit of a dilemma here. There are some who do not use VOIP software when they play SWF. These groups may be punished for not being able to play with each other, despite not breaking any rules. Rule Number 5 also states that video evidence is required to ban people for using 3rd Party Software that is not whitelisted. This means things like Discord, Skype, even Steam Calling are all violation of Rule Number 5. However, in the General Discussions segment there is a rule towards the bottom that says this: "- Openly admitting to cheating in DbD." Anyone who claims to using VOIP, or even anyone who has played the game with them streaming with using VOIP is technically video evidence of 3rd Party Software. Now, am I asking for anyone who has used VOIP to be banned from the game?

Absolutely NOT. Many of us simply wish to play with our friends. This is why I propose ONE of TWO changes to be made to this wonderful game. A solution should be created instead of handing out punishments or allowing the game to fester with these problems.

The Solutions
1. Create a Ranked and a Casual Playlist
Now, I know what you're thinking. "But weirdkid5, that will split the playerbase!"

The playerbase is already divided as is. There's no reason to force people to do something they do not wish to deal with, or to have to make anyone dodge or have to deal with being dodged for several minutes. Ever since the inclusion of SWF, things have taken wild turns for the balance of this game.

I suggest that we have a Ranked mode that allows only solo queue players, or if we have to compromise, up to only TWO people in a pre-made group. There could be 2 teams of 2 SWF groups. The other mode would be a Casual Mode, where any number of players can group up and find a Killer.

Ranked could have Seasonal Rewards for players who attain Ranks from 15, to 10, to 5, and finally to 1. These rewards could range anywhere from Bloodpoints, to Teachable Perks, and even unique cosmetics that do not come around very often, and can only be attained through Rank 1, or something similar.

However, there would need to be certain incentive to make the Killer's wish to play Casual Mode. Since no Rank is involved, simply providing a bonus to Bloodpoints for larger and larger groups of SWF would suffice here. It's all in fun, people can do as they wish to the Killer and he is rewarded for being a punching bag, and people get to practice their skills for Ranked Mode if they wish to be serious.

I will use Deceit as an example of a game that had SWF problems and made changes to FIX the problem rather than let it fester. Ever since the game went Free to Play the playerbase skyrocketed, but even when only a couple hundred people played it they made a Ranked and Casual Mode.

This was because groups of pre-mades made the game miserable for other players. If you were the Infected and you weren't a part of the group chat, gg game over before it even starts. To rectify this they made Ranked where you could only go in with one other person.

In light of a user's comment, Team Ranked Mode would also be good with Balance Changes. Here is is comment. Thanks for the input!
III původně napsal:

1
but if 4 people want for me hardcore mode i want hardcore mode for team too!
1 perk per TEAM (so only DS per 4 people etc)
no items, no addons, no offerings and GL!

If this solution is not good enough, then...

Balance the Game Towards Increasingly Larger Groups of SWF
Bloodpoint incentives are simply not enough if this will be the solution.

Instead, give the Killer some form of increased Power for the more SWF that he has to deal with. What this increased Power is, I cannot say. I do not wish to suggest anything because I am not a game designer, but something like extra Perks could suffice. For every person that is SWF starting at 2, allow the Killer one extra Perk. This could mean he could have 3 extra Perks to play with to even the odds.

Another suggestion is to allow the Killer to have an easier time getting pips against SWF groups. For instance, if there is a full team of SWF, all you need is one kill and two hooks to get a pip. Getting 4 Kills could net you a whole 3 pips.

The last example would be adding perks for the Killer that affect only SWF players, and would not affect Solo players. This way, solo players are not punished for being paired with SWF, and the perks allow the Killer to easily adapt to a suspected SWF group. The user TWiXT is to thank for this, good suggestion buddy!

"I'm for Rebalancing the game around SWF instead of Solo Queue. In other 4v1 games the 1 was always heavily Overpowered in order to compensate. Here that is still mostly the case, but only if against Solo players. My suggestion of how to balance it is to add 2 "SWF Perk" Slots for the killer and to create at Least 1 Teachable "SWF perk" for each killer. These "SWF Perks" are heavily Overpowered perks desinged specifically for combating SWF groups. You can Fill these slots premptively, and for every 2 SWF players, one slot activates. What will make these unique is how they only affect the SWF players and not solo players. Examples:

Dead Weight - For each SWF member injured, in the dying state or killed, the other members have 15% decreased repair, sabotage and healing speeds.

No Escape - Gates take 25% longer to open for SWF players, and the Black Lock (hatch) doesn't open for them without a key.

Heavy Burden - For each SWF player within 24m of a SWF member when they are hooked, rescue takes 1 second longer, and the sacrifice progression rate is 15% faster.

Rusted Gears - SWF Members who fail skillchecks on repairs reduce the generators progression by 15% and if a brand new part was used they take 1 strike in damage and are mangled for 180 seconds.

Blinding Strike - SWF members put into the dying state have their vision go black until 1.5 seconds after being placed on a hook, being rescued or wiggling free from the killer.

Vigorous Assaut - For each SWF member still alive gain 2% movement speed, and 20% attack speed recovery when chasing them.

These are just a few off of the top of my head. The increased communication SWF has means that they are basically playing DbD on Easy difficulty for the majority of ranks, and around Normal difficulty at high ranks. For killers howerver, facing SWF is like playing the game on Expert Difficulty no matter the ranking, and to me, the only way killers will ever be able to face that difficulty on even enough footing is to be strong enough to combat it."

These are just some suggestions, if you have a better one of how the game could be balanced around SWF, comment below, or if the devs read this, I would hope that you could devise a balance change around SWF.

This way, if the Killer runs into a team of solo-queues, they will not be punished with increased Perks. However, the problem with my suggestion is that solo players that get paired with smaller SWF groups would need to suffer. This is why I say if you have a better proposition, lay it out below.

If Solution Number 2 is chosen, there should be an added indicator of which survivors are SWF. This could even be added in to the Casual Mode, and in my opinion should.

To Sum It All Up
This game is balanced around no communication. Currently, VOIP breaks all the balance in the game and can be considered Cheating under the devs own rules. Players who use VOIP should not be punished, instead a solution needs to be created so that it no longer violates Rule Number 5. And the solutions is NOT to simply whitelist VOIP programs. If they are whitelisted, Solution Number 2 MUST be implemented.

The following edit is in response to comment #284. Please see this person's reply before reading this edit.
EDIT 4: Honestly, it seems to me the majority of players wish to play Casually. From the looks of things, people just wanna have fun with their friends, and there are actually plenty of Killers that float around the mid Ranks because it makes the game more Casual for them. You should have no problem with wait times in Casual Mode because most of the people will be there, even Killers will be happy to play for ♥♥♥♥♥ n giggles and get BP. Hundreds if not thousands already do that in the mid Ranks.

Only a minority of players play Rank 1. For everyone that has given +1, we all want to play the game in it's natural form. Solo, no comms. Hard games with the best Killers. Why are you denying us minority to get away from what you all are enforcing on us? We want to play seriously, but you won't let us. We want a challenge, we want to play to win. If you want to play for fun, there's nothing wrong with that. If you want to play seriously, there's nothing wrong with that.

Let us who want to play serious have that, and the majority Casual can stay in Casual. We don't care if we face the same 1000 people over and over. You will have your 19k people playing Casually and you'll have fun, we'll have fun. we will all have fun. But I can guarantee more people would play Ranked. They would still do it and we wouldn't have terrible wait times. As a Ranked player, I'd be fine with waiting a few minutes for a balaced, good match. Let Casual games be fun and for BP, let us Ranked players enjoy serious play with special rewards, like large BP Jackpots, Teachable Perks, and even New Cosmetics only attained by Rank 1 players. Adjust Ranked Mode so that both sides have to do significant things other than just camp and pallet loop all day for ez wins.

We can do this, there's absolutely no reason this won't work.

Personally, I wish for this game to lose all the toxicity that plagues it. Everyone, let us all agree to make a change for the better of this Franchise's Future.

EDIT 1: Added Incentives for Ranked Play.

EDIT 2: Added a new suggestion for Solution Number 2 in regards to Pip Gainage.

EDIT 3: Cleaned up errors and added a new header.

EDIT 4: Added a response I had to a member in regards to making a Casual Mode and Ranked Mode. The comment number is #284.
Thank you Beckski93 for your argument and stance. This edit, my response, is what I believe to be the best option for this problem this community has. Thank you to everyone who has presented arguments from both sides. I feel we may make some progress if we keep everything civil and honest.

EDIT 5: Fixed "technically." Curse you, Boss! 😣

EDIT 6: Added a user comment for Team Ranked in the Ranked and Casual segment of the Solutions.

EDIT 7: Removed a portion that said MLGA is whitelisted. MLGA is no longer whitelisted, use at your own risk.

EDIT 8: Added a suggestion from the user TWiXT in regards to creating specific perks for the Killer that counter SWF. Pretty good job so far!

EDIT 9: Added an interview from Mathieu Cote at PAX West 2016 in regards to why the game is balanced the way it is.

Master · December 2018

Was the original thread closed?

Boss · December 2018

Ohey, this brings back memories.
i'm EDIT 5.

Someissues · December 2018

This needs to be done tbh. If they are refusing to balance all killers to equal or close power (Which they acknowledged)

then ranked needs to be removed altogether. There's no rank rewards anything. you are only being punished at higher rank with no rewards nor incentive, which leads to people derank

If theres a casual mode, there wont be any needs to buff any killers. every killer will be fine as is as is it for casual mode.

ScottJund · December 2018

tbh I feel like the game already is balanced for SWF. Solo survivor < killer < SWF.

ReneAensland · December 2018

I'm deranking from 10 (originally 1 before reset) to rank 15. RIGHT NOW.

Incarnate · December 2018

I definitely am in complete support of this, because this has been an issue since they implemented SWF, and it does break balance. I do have one note to add, and that is that the devs really should be very careful with what they sanction/whitelist, because they've made certain sanctions in the past that should not have been made but instead have been blacklisted and specifically should have attempted to make some kind of fix, because sanctioning something that would normally be considered an exploit and something where you're avoiding an intended detrimental game mechanic by using an unintended game mechanic to gain an unfair advantage is by definition what is considered an exploit and it breaks balance.

I've also personally advocated for a ranked and casual game more, for several reasons, but especially because of the balance issues SWF causes in ranked play, and really shouldn't be allowed in RANKED play.

PandaChris · December 2018

There was that developer stream last year sometime in October that showed 70% of all games contain some group (2,3,4 man) of SWF. So, i am not sure why this game is not balanced around SWF.

Like it or not the majority of survivor players are playing with their friends. Which is fantastic for the game and fun for them but terrible for balance.

As for ranked / casual, i dont believe that ever will happen. They struggle with making the current lobby system work properly already. I cant imagine them having to deal with 2 different systems.

I have no idea how to fix this issue, maybe tighten up the skill checks, make them go faster, depending on the number of SWF players there are. I know the general argument is "why should i be punished for playing with my friends". Something has to give when you can have such an advantage through communication.

Im also a big advocate of removing the ability to see perks during spectate and to remove names from survivors during the lobby screen.

Avariku · December 2018

This really does need to happen... I solo queue and steamrolled in over half of my survivor matches meanwhile as killer, usually the only time I have serious trouble is against SWF.

The_Crusader · December 2018

The game is either balanced around solo or it's balanced around SWF. It can't be balanced for both. The devs need to specify which it is. Either solo is at a disadvantage or swf has a big advantage, or is it somewhere in the middle and both are true?

I don't really mind 2 man swf and I get a lot of them but 3-4 people on comms definitely wrecks some killers who rely on stealth such as Myers and Pig. Plus the sheer amount of co-ordination on the gens makes it hard for most killers to keep up.

Rebel_Raven · December 2018

Agreed. They need to do something.

Nikkiwhat · December 2018

One wish I have is to notify us when it's a SWF group... Overwatch shows people when it's a group working together.

I doubt it'll ever happen, but there should be a bonus of BPs for Killers going against a SWF if they're just gonna leave things as is...Ive had games where I downed a SWF player/get them set to be sacrificed and they DC and their friend instantly leaves as well...screwing over the solos

Carpemortum · December 2018

Someissues said:

This needs to be done tbh. If they are refusing to balance all killers to equal or close power (Which they acknowledged)

then ranked needs to be removed altogether. There's no rank rewards anything. you are only being punished at higher rank with no rewards nor incentive, which leads to people derank

If theres a casual mode, there wont be any needs to buff any killers. every killer will be fine as is as is it for casual mode.

"Rank" isnt a ranked system. It's a way to SOMEWHAT better match the player base. Without it you would have literal pros vs new players. There has to be some sort of rank or mmr or the game is a complete clusterfuck.

Not to mention it resets monthly. ..so....

Incarnate · December 2018

@Carpemortum said:
Someissues said:

This needs to be done tbh. If they are refusing to balance all killers to equal or close power (Which they acknowledged)

then ranked needs to be removed altogether. There's no rank rewards anything. you are only being punished at higher rank with no rewards nor incentive, which leads to people derank

If theres a casual mode, there wont be any needs to buff any killers. every killer will be fine as is as is it for casual mode.

"Rank" isnt a ranked system. It's a way to SOMEWHAT better match the player base. Without it you would have literal pros vs new players. There has to be some sort of rank or mmr or the game is a complete clusterfuck.

Not to mention it resets monthly. ..so....

It actually is a ranked system, which also is there to attempt to better match the player base, which is an attempt to reflect your skill level, unfortunately that isn't working so well due to the imbalances caused by SWF, however SWF isn't to blame alone for this. One of the reasons is that victim and killer ranks are global and not specifically linked to an individual character, so you may be rank one killer and you're maining Myers, but when you then switch to another killer whom you're not nearly as skilled with nor do you have good perks, addons, etc. on that killer, but you're still being matched with others as a R1.

..and the monthly resets - are really stupid in my opinion, because you don't suddenly become less skilled. Instead that should most likely be based on a certain amount have passed since you last played, rather than you just dropping a few ranks once every month.

Carpemortum · December 2018

Incarnate said:

@Carpemortum said:
Someissues said:

This needs to be done tbh. If they are refusing to balance all killers to equal or close power (Which they acknowledged)

then ranked needs to be removed altogether. There's no rank rewards anything. you are only being punished at higher rank with no rewards nor incentive, which leads to people derank

If theres a casual mode, there wont be any needs to buff any killers. every killer will be fine as is as is it for casual mode.

"Rank" isnt a ranked system. It's a way to SOMEWHAT better match the player base. Without it you would have literal pros vs new players. There has to be some sort of rank or mmr or the game is a complete clusterfuck.

Not to mention it resets monthly. ..so....

It actually is a ranked system, which also is there to attempt to better match the player base, which is an attempt to reflect your skill level, unfortunately that isn't working so well due to the imbalances caused by SWF, however SWF isn't to blame alone for this. One of the reasons is that victim and killer ranks are global and not specifically linked to an individual character, so you may be rank one killer and you're maining Myers, but when you then switch to another killer whom you're not nearly as skilled with nor do you have good perks, addons, etc. on that killer, but you're still being matched with others as a R1.

..and the monthly resets - are really stupid in my opinion, because you don't suddenly become less skilled. Instead that should most likely be based on a certain amount have passed since you last played, rather than you just dropping a few ranks once every month.

Did you just ignore the point of my message and just argue the terminology? It's a rank. Yes. As I said. But not a ranked system as in the competitive sense. As in the ranked OR casual sense. It's there to make sure it's not pros vs potatoes.

Incarnate · December 2018

@Carpemortum said:
Incarnate said:

@Carpemortum said:

Someissues said:
This needs to be done tbh. If they are refusing to balance all killers to equal or close power (Which they acknowledged)

then ranked needs to be removed altogether. There's no rank rewards anything. you are only being punished at higher rank with no rewards nor incentive, which leads to people derank

If theres a casual mode, there wont be any needs to buff any killers. every killer will be fine as is as is it for casual mode.



"Rank" isnt a ranked system. It's a way to SOMEWHAT better match the player base. Without it you would have literal pros vs new players. There has to be some sort of rank or mmr or the game is a complete clusterfuck.
Not to mention it resets monthly. ..so....

It actually is a ranked system, which also is there to attempt to better match the player base, which is an attempt to reflect your skill level, unfortunately that isn't working so well due to the imbalances caused by SWF, however SWF isn't to blame alone for this. One of the reasons is that victim and killer ranks are global and not specifically linked to an individual character, so you may be rank one killer and you're maining Myers, but when you then switch to another killer whom you're not nearly as skilled with nor do you have good perks, addons, etc. on that killer, but you're still being matched with others as a R1.

..and the monthly resets - are really stupid in my opinion, because you don't suddenly become less skilled. Instead that should most likely be based on a certain amount have passed since you last played, rather than you just dropping a few ranks once every month.

Did you just ignore the point of my message and just argue the terminology? It's a rank. Yes. As I said. But not a ranked system as in the competitive sense. As in the ranked OR casual sense. It's there to make sure it's not pros vs potatoes.

No, I did not ignore the point of the message, but I disagree with you about that to a certain extent.
It is a competitive ranking system, which isn't without it's flaws, and it's also by many players being perceived and treated as a competitive ranking system. You're right it's not as complex as for instance the elo ranking system, but the elo system is there for the same reason, to put people against each other of same relative skill level. It's the same with CS:GO, there you also have individual ranks that is attainable and whether you rank up or de-rank is based on your performance, same deal with DbD, granted there different parameters that detemines if one ranks up, de-ranks or nothing happens, but essentially it's the same. So if you disagree with me here, then by your logic CS:GO wouldn't be using a competitive ranking system either.

My point also holds true here, because when ranked isn't linked to a specific killer, it doesn't do what it's supposed to, namely to put you against others who would fit your skill level with that particular killer. Where with survivor/victims rank it's a different matter, because every victim is really more a skin than anything else. However, when the players don't have the perks from the other characters, they're really playing with a more limited toolset, until they unlock the perks that allows them to play to their skill level, and thus they shouldn't be having a global rank either. The reason should be quite obvious, because in essence it's the same issue you have with the killer global rank when you switch to another killer where you don't have the same skill, addons and perks that allows you to actually both attain and keep holding that rank.

Rank should not be global... It should be linked to each individual character. But it's not, so it doesn't ensure pros don't get matched vs. potatoes as you say. Furthermore, it's a lot easier to climb the ranks as a survivor when playing an SWF group as opposed to playing as a solo victim climbing the ranks.

Carpemortum · December 2018

Incarnate said:
@Carpemortum said:
Incarnate said:

@Carpemortum said:

Someissues said:
This needs to be done tbh. If they are refusing to balance all killers to equal or close power (Which they acknowledged)

then ranked needs to be removed altogether. There's no rank rewards anything. you are only being punished at higher rank with no rewards nor incentive, which leads to people derank

If theres a casual mode, there wont be any needs to buff any killers. every killer will be fine as is as is it for casual mode.



"Rank" isnt a ranked system. It's a way to SOMEWHAT better match the player base. Without it you would have literal pros vs new players. There has to be some sort of rank or mmr or the game is a complete clusterfuck.
Not to mention it resets monthly. ..so....

It actually is a ranked system, which also is there to attempt to better match the player base, which is an attempt to reflect your skill level, unfortunately that isn't working so well due to the imbalances caused by SWF, however SWF isn't to blame alone for this. One of the reasons is that victim and killer ranks are global and not specifically linked to an individual character, so you may be rank one killer and you're maining Myers, but when you then switch to another killer whom you're not nearly as skilled with nor do you have good perks, addons, etc. on that killer, but you're still being matched with others as a R1.

..and the monthly resets - are really stupid in my opinion, because you don't suddenly become less skilled. Instead that should most likely be based on a certain amount have passed since you last played, rather than you just dropping a few ranks once every month.

Did you just ignore the point of my message and just argue the terminology? It's a rank. Yes. As I said. But not a ranked system as in the competitive sense. As in the ranked OR casual sense. It's there to make sure it's not pros vs potatoes.
No, I did not ignore the point of the message, but I disagree with you about that to a certain extent.
It is a competitive ranking system, which isn't without it's flaws, and it's also by many players being perceived and treated as a competitive ranking system. You're right it's not as complex as for instance the elo ranking system, but the elo system is there for the same reason, to put people against each other of same relative skill level. It's the same with CS:GO, there you also have individual ranks that is attainable and whether you rank up or de-rank is based on your performance, same deal with DbD, granted there different parameters that detemines if one ranks up, de-ranks or nothing happens, but essentially it's the same. So if you disagree with me here, then by your logic CS:GO wouldn't be using a competitive ranking system either.

My point also holds true here, because when ranked isn't linked to a specific killer, it doesn't do what it's supposed to, namely to put you against others who would fit your skill level with that particular killer. Where with survivor/victims rank it's a different matter, because every victim is really more a skin than anything else. However, when the players don't have the perks from the other characters, they're really playing with a more limited toolset, until they unlock the perks that allows them to play to their skill level, and thus they shouldn't be having a global rank either. The reason should be quite obvious, because in essence it's the same issue you have with the killer global rank when you switch to another killer where you don't have the same skill, addons and perks that allows you to actually both attain and keep holding that rank.

Rank should not be global... It should be linked to each individual character. But it's not, so it doesn't ensure pros don't get matched vs. potatoes as you say. Furthermore, it's a lot easier to climb the ranks as a survivor when playing an SWF group as opposed to playing as a solo victim climbing the ranks.

To that end, it's easier to reach rank 1 with nurse than freddy. But both are possible....

Its global based on your skill at that "rank" with all possible killers or possibilities. Otherwise wed have to rank based on specific perks as well.

Seanzu · December 2018

The game is in the best spot it's ever been in all honesty.

why are people so upset about getting rinsed by survivors? Some games you're going to have a bunch of players that are better than you, regardless of whether they're SWF or Not.

While The Legion is admittedly lacklustre you can suggest changes and hope they come through. Everybody only thinks about themselves "If you buff all of these things at the same time it'll be perfect". Unfortunately that can't just happen because you then have a situation like Freddy but in reverse, wherein they nerfed a bunch of freddys stats and now you have the position he's in now (for the record I think Freddy is great to play as but boring to play against).

People keep complaining about "They aren't making any killers to compete with Billy & Nurse". They can all compete, the Nurse & Billy are just more efficient at it. You can still absolutely be a wrecking ball with any of the other killers (barr The Legion).

That being said, a major change that needs to happen to "SWF" is the hiding of the perks at end game screen until it's finished, this should be a priority. People need to stop pretending every match they queue into is a team of 4 that do swat coms, it's utterly ridiculous.

Carpemortum · December 2018

SenzuDuck said:

The game is in the best spot it's ever been in all honesty.

why are people so upset about getting rinsed by survivors? Some games you're going to have a bunch of players that are better than you, regardless of whether they're SWF or Not.

While The Legion is admittedly lacklustre you can suggest changes and hope they come through. Everybody only thinks about themselves "If you buff all of these things at the same time it'll be perfect". Unfortunately that can't just happen because you then have a situation like Freddy but in reverse, wherein they nerfed a bunch of freddys stats and now you have the position he's in now (for the record I think Freddy is great to play as but boring to play against).

People keep complaining about "They aren't making any killers to compete with Billy & Nurse". They can all compete, the Nurse & Billy are just more efficient at it. You can still absolutely be a wrecking ball with any of the other killers (barr The Legion).

That being said, a major change that needs to happen to "SWF" is the hiding of the perks at end game screen until it's finished, this should be a priority. People need to stop pretending every match they queue into is a team of 4 that do swat coms, it's utterly ridiculous.

If you can be a "wrecking ball" as freddy or LF, then legion can absolutely be one too. It's all about perk synergy and how you play. Without perks or addons theres a few killers that are NOT "wrecking balls".

Incarnate · December 2018

@Carpemortum said:
Incarnate said:

@Carpemortum said:

Incarnate said:
@Carpemortum said:

Someissues said:
This needs to be done tbh. If they are refusing to balance all killers to equal or close power (Which they acknowledged) then ranked needs to be removed altogether. There's no rank rewards anything. you are only being punished at higher rank with no rewards nor incentive, which leads to people derank If theres a casual mode, there wont be any needs to buff any killers. every killer will be fine as is as is it for casual mode. "Rank" isnt a ranked system. It's a way to SOMEWHAT better match the player base. Without it you would have literal pros vs new players. There has to be some sort of rank or mmr or the game is a complete clusterfuck.
Not to mention it resets monthly. ..so....



It actually is a ranked system, which also is there to attempt to better match the player base, which is an attempt to reflect your skill level, unfortunately that isn't working so well due to the imbalances caused by SWF, however SWF isn't to blame alone for this. One of the reasons is that victim and killer ranks are global and not specifically linked to an individual character, so you may be rank one killer and you're maining Myers, but when you then switch to another killer whom you're not nearly as skilled with nor do you have good perks, addons, etc. on that killer, but you're still being matched with others as a R1.

..and the monthly resets - are really stupid in my opinion, because you don't suddenly become less skilled. Instead that should most likely be based on a certain amount have passed since you last played, rather than you just dropping a few ranks once every month.
Did you just ignore the point of my message and just argue the terminology? It's a rank. Yes. As I said. But not a ranked system as in the competitive sense. As in the ranked OR casual sense. It's there to make sure it's not pros vs potatoes.

No, I did not ignore the point of the message, but I disagree with you about that to a certain extent.

It is a competitive ranking system, which isn't without it's flaws, and it's also by many players being perceived and treated as a competitive ranking system. You're right it's not as complex as for instance the elo ranking system, but the elo system is there for the same reason, to put people against each other of same relative skill level. It's the same with CS:GO, there you also have individual ranks that is attainable and whether you rank up or de-rank is based on your performance, same deal with DbD, granted there different parameters that detemines if one ranks up, de-ranks or nothing happens, but essentially it's the same. So if you disagree with me here, then by your logic CS:GO wouldn't be using a competitive ranking system either.

My point also holds true here, because when ranked isn't linked to a specific killer, it doesn't do what it's supposed to, namely to put you against others who would fit your skill level with that particular killer. Where with survivor/victims rank it's a different matter, because every victim is really more a skin than anything else. However, when the players don't have the perks from the other characters, they're really playing with a more limited toolset, until they unlock the perks that allows them to play to their skill level, and thus they shouldn't be having a global rank either. The reason should be quite obvious, because in essence it's the same issue you have with the killer global rank when you switch to another killer where you don't have the same skill, addons and perks that allows you to actually both attain and keep holding that rank.

Rank should not be global... It should be linked to each individual character. But it's not, so it doesn't ensure pros don't get matched vs. potatoes as you say. Furthermore, it's a lot easier to climb the ranks as a survivor when playing an SWF group as opposed to playing as a solo victim climbing the ranks.

To that end, it's easier to reach rank 1 with nurse than freddy. But both are possible....

Its global based on your skill at that "rank" with all possible killers or possibilities. Otherwise wed have to rank based on specific perks as well.

That is one of the main issues with the global rank, because it does a really poor job at reflecting one's skill level with each individual killer, as every killer performs differently and requires one to play differently, which also means that people will have varying levels of skill the killers. Like for instance, I'm sure we both agree on that Nurse has a much higher skill cap than for instance Freddy, but Freddy will require even more skill to make it to the red ranks than it will with Nurse, which basically means that if a Freddy player makes it to the red ranks, then by comparison to the Nurse, then this killer player would have a much better rank than what the red ranks actually reflect. There are many good reasons why rank really should be tied to each individual killer rather than being a global rank for all. So if the extremely awesome player who's achieved the red ranks with Freddy switches to Nurse, but really haven't played much nurse, then guess what then this killer players skill level suddenly isn't on par with what it was supposed to be. Global rank doesn't reflect your skill with all possible killers, it reflects the skill level with those killers you used to attain the rank with, period!

Another good reason why we actually need a game mode that doesn't use the rank system, is mainly due to the reason that if you want to play other killers for instance, and you're at say rank 1, but really your skill level, is mayb only rank 10'ish with the killer you want to play, furthermore you don't have all the perks on that killer that allows you to play with better efficiency and thus to perform better, but you'll still going to be matched against R1 survivors who will be bringing the best. So essentially being locked to play at a specific rank even though you don't want be playing competitively but are forced to do so if you want to retain your rank - that is a problem. And it's the same deal with victim players, they're also forced to play more competitively if they want to retain their rank, which means people might decide not to play because they don't want to lose rank and they don't feel like playing competively that day.

Seanzu · December 2018

@Carpemortum said:
If you can be a "wrecking ball" as freddy or LF, then legion can absolutely be one too. It's all about perk synergy and how you play. Without perks or addons theres a few killers that are NOT "wrecking balls".

If you're playing at Rank 1 without perks or addons then you should lose.

Carpemortum · December 2018

Incarnate said:
@Carpemortum said:
Incarnate said:

@Carpemortum said:

Incarnate said:
@Carpemortum said:

Someissues said:
This needs to be done tbh. If they are refusing to balance all killers to equal or close power (Which they acknowledged) then ranked needs to be removed altogether. There's no rank rewards anything. you are only being punished at higher rank with no rewards nor incentive, which leads to people derank If theres a casual mode, there wont be any needs to buff any killers. every killer will be fine as is as is it for casual mode. "Rank" isnt a ranked system. It's a way to SOMEWHAT better match the player base. Without it you would have literal pros vs new players. There has to be some sort of rank or mmr or the game is a complete clusterfuck.
Not to mention it resets monthly. ..so....



It actually is a ranked system, which also is there to attempt to better match the player base, which is an attempt to reflect your skill level, unfortunately that isn't working so well due to the imbalances caused by SWF, however SWF isn't to blame alone for this. One of the reasons is that victim and killer ranks are global and not specifically linked to an individual character, so you may be rank one killer and you're maining Myers, but when you then switch to another killer whom you're not nearly as skilled with nor do you have good perks, addons, etc. on that killer, but you're still being matched with others as a R1.

..and the monthly resets - are really stupid in my opinion, because you don't suddenly become less skilled. Instead that should most likely be based on a certain amount have passed since you last played, rather than you just dropping a few ranks once every month.
Did you just ignore the point of my message and just argue the terminology? It's a rank. Yes. As I said. But not a ranked system as in the competitive sense. As in the ranked OR casual sense. It's there to make sure it's not pros vs potatoes.

No, I did not ignore the point of the message, but I disagree with you about that to a certain extent.

It is a competitive ranking system, which isn't without it's flaws, and it's also by many players being perceived and treated as a competitive ranking system. You're right it's not as complex as for instance the elo ranking system, but the elo system is there for the same reason, to put people against each other of same relative skill level. It's the same with CS:GO, there you also have individual ranks that is attainable and whether you rank up or de-rank is based on your performance, same deal with DbD, granted there different parameters that detemines if one ranks up, de-ranks or nothing happens, but essentially it's the same. So if you disagree with me here, then by your logic CS:GO wouldn't be using a competitive ranking system either.

My point also holds true here, because when ranked isn't linked to a specific killer, it doesn't do what it's supposed to, namely to put you against others who would fit your skill level with that particular killer. Where with survivor/victims rank it's a different matter, because every victim is really more a skin than anything else. However, when the players don't have the perks from the other characters, they're really playing with a more limited toolset, until they unlock the perks that allows them to play to their skill level, and thus they shouldn't be having a global rank either. The reason should be quite obvious, because in essence it's the same issue you have with the killer global rank when you switch to another killer where you don't have the same skill, addons and perks that allows you to actually both attain and keep holding that rank.

Rank should not be global... It should be linked to each individual character. But it's not, so it doesn't ensure pros don't get matched vs. potatoes as you say. Furthermore, it's a lot easier to climb the ranks as a survivor when playing an SWF group as opposed to playing as a solo victim climbing the ranks.

To that end, it's easier to reach rank 1 with nurse than freddy. But both are possible....

Its global based on your skill at that "rank" with all possible killers or possibilities. Otherwise wed have to rank based on specific perks as well.
That is one of the main issues with the global rank, because it does a really poor job at reflecting one's skill level with each individual killer, as every killer performs differently and requires one to play differently, which also means that people will have varying levels of skill the killers. Like for instance, I'm sure we both agree on that Nurse has a much higher skill cap than for instance Freddy, but Freddy will require even more skill to make it to the red ranks than it will with Nurse, which basically means that if a Freddy player makes it to the red ranks, then by comparison to the Nurse, then this killer player would have a much better rank than what the red ranks actually reflect. There are many good reasons why rank really should be tied to each individual killer rather than being a global rank for all. So if the extremely awesome player who's achieved the red ranks with Freddy switches to Nurse, but really haven't played much nurse, then guess what then this killer players skill level suddenly isn't on par with what it was supposed to be. Global rank doesn't reflect your skill with all possible killers, it reflects the skill level with those killers you used to attain the rank with, period!

Another good reason why we actually need a game mode that doesn't use the rank system, is mainly due to the reason that if you want to play other killers for instance, and you're at say rank 1, but really your skill level, is mayb only rank 10'ish with the killer you want to play, furthermore you don't have all the perks on that killer that allows you to play with better efficiency and thus to perform better, but you'll still going to be matched against R1 survivors who will be bringing the best. So essentially being locked to play at a specific rank even though you don't want be playing competitively but are forced to do so if you want to retain your rank - that is a problem. And it's the same deal with victim players, they're also forced to play more competitively if they want to retain their rank, which means people might decide not to play because they don't want to lose rank and they don't feel like playing competively that day.

The problem with that is that if someone is rank 1 with nurse, or billy, then decides to play a new meyers, that's someone with rank 1 abilities with rank 20 survivors on a damn good killer...

Incarnate · December 2018

@SenzuDuck said:
That being said, a major change that needs to happen to "SWF" is the hiding of the perks at end game screen until it's finished, this should be a priority. People need to stop pretending every match they queue into is a team of 4 that do swat coms, it's utterly ridiculous.

Thats no where near enough, because of the possibility to be communicating together as an SWF team.
Solo and SWF cannot exist in the same ranked mode because of the balance issues they introduce, even if you were to attempt to balance it around SWF and bring solo players up to the same "level" as the SWF players it still wouldn't be the same nor would it be balance, and balance is the issue here.

Seanzu · December 2018

@Incarnate said:

@SenzuDuck said:
That being said, a major change that needs to happen to "SWF" is the hiding of the perks at end game screen until it's finished, this should be a priority. People need to stop pretending every match they queue into is a team of 4 that do swat coms, it's utterly ridiculous.

Thats no where near enough, because of the possibility to be communicating together as an SWF team.
Solo and SWF cannot exist in the same ranked mode because of the balance issues they introduce, even if you were to attempt to balance it around SWF and bring solo players up to the same "level" as the SWF players it still wouldn't be the same nor would it be balance, and balance is the issue here.

The game is casual, not competitive, stop asking for Ranked/Non-Ranked.
If you want to play comp go play in a tournament... oh... where they all voice chat btw.

SWF Is not hard to beat, I'd wager the majority of people on this forum that complain about SWF probably dodge the mere whiff of SWF and simply want to complain and ruin the game for SWFers.

TheHourMan · December 2018

They are already in the process of balancing the game for swf, calm down

Incarnate · December 2018

@Carpemortum said:

The problem with that is that if someone is rank 1 with nurse, or billy, then decides to play a new meyers, that's someone with rank 1 abilities with rank 20 survivors on a damn good killer...

Yes, in the beginning it would be an issue, but that would quickly rectify itself as this killer would be gaining ranks. And I do think they should be calculating skill level rather than what they're doing now with "pipping" or "de-pipping".

TheHourMan · December 2018

And yes, i hate voice comm too. It means I have to be a complete ######### sometimes just to get some kills, but so be it.

Incarnate · December 2018

@SenzuDuck said:

@Incarnate said:

@SenzuDuck said:
That being said, a major change that needs to happen to "SWF" is the hiding of the perks at end game screen until it's finished, this should be a priority. People need to stop pretending every match they queue into is a team of 4 that do swat coms, it's utterly ridiculous.

Thats no where near enough, because of the possibility to be communicating together as an SWF team.
Solo and SWF cannot exist in the same ranked mode because of the balance issues they introduce, even if you were to attempt to balance it around SWF and bring solo players up to the same "level" as the SWF players it still wouldn't be the same nor would it be balance, and balance is the issue here.

The game is casual, not competitive, stop asking for Ranked/Non-Ranked.
If you want to play comp go play in a tournament... oh... where they all voice chat btw.

SWF Is not hard to beat, I'd wager the majority of people on this forum that complain about SWF probably dodge the mere whiff of SWF and simply want to complain and ruin the game for SWFers.

The game isn't casual, there are ranks, even if the game mode doesn't actually have a name, it's still ranked alright and players ranking up and deranking all the time - so do go saying the game is casual when clearly it's competitive. Even if some people play it more casually, that doesn't make it any less competitive. For the record competitive and casual don't mix well, and quite clearly there are both types of players playing in the same mode because they don't have any other mode.

SWF groups with VoIP does break the intended balance. The game was never intended to have SWF in it, and players weren't intended to be able to communicate. So it does upset the balance quite a lot.

@TheHourMan said:
They are already in the process of balancing the game for swf, calm down

..that won't work for obvious reasons. Because solo players will still be at a severe disadvantage if they buff the killer to better balance against the SWF.

Seanzu · December 2018

@Incarnate said:
The game isn't casual, there are ranks, even if the game mode doesn't actually have a name, it's still ranked alright and players ranking up and deranking all the time - so do go saying the game is casual when clearly it's competitive. Even if some people play it more casually, that doesn't make it any less competitive. For the record competitive and casual don't mix well, and quite clearly there are both types of players playing in the same mode because they don't have any other mode.

SWF groups with VoIP does break the intended balance. The game was never intended to have SWF in it, and players weren't intended to be able to communicate. So it does upset the balance quite a lot.

The game is 100% casual.

Moris = Easy wins
Iridescent Heads = Easy Wins
Insta Heals = Easy Chase

If you're going to claim this game is competitive when it has those things in then you're beyond reason.

When one of the most effective tactics is running around and slugging everyone there is no competition, when you can add insta downs to a lot of the killers there is no "competitiveness" to that.

The game is casual, the ranks are reset every month, and there's no incentive to be at rank 1.

ITS CASUAL.

Also as for the "SWF was never intended"

https://youtu.be/gTpZSllfMmw?t=582

9 Mins & 14 Seconds will answer you

Carpemortum · December 2018

SenzuDuck said:

@Carpemortum said:
If you can be a "wrecking ball" as freddy or LF, then legion can absolutely be one too. It's all about perk synergy and how you play. Without perks or addons theres a few killers that are NOT "wrecking balls".

If you're playing at Rank 1 without perks or addons then you should lose.

I'm not? My point was you can be a wrecking ball on any killer at any rank given the right setup and circumstances. Legion or otherwise. You can also get stomped as a rank 1 nurse who knows exactly how to play her with her addons and perks setup.

Attackfrog · December 2018

@Carpemortum said:
Someissues said:

This needs to be done tbh. If they are refusing to balance all killers to equal or close power (Which they acknowledged)

then ranked needs to be removed altogether. There's no rank rewards anything. you are only being punished at higher rank with no rewards nor incentive, which leads to people derank

If theres a casual mode, there wont be any needs to buff any killers. every killer will be fine as is as is it for casual mode.

"Rank" isnt a ranked system. It's a way to SOMEWHAT better match the player base. Without it you would have literal pros vs new players. There has to be some sort of rank or mmr or the game is a complete clusterfuck.

Not to mention it resets monthly. ..so....

right now, I play with people at just about any rank

ALlso, ranking is so ridiculous that bad players can easily achieve higher ranks and good players know how to "depip"

Getting rid of the ranked system is a good solution because it really wouldn't change the makeup of matches to anything different than you see now. Instead, it would make the pool larger, resulting in faster q's with just as much chance of playing against a "noob" or "pro" as we have right now.

Incarnate · December 2018

@SenzuDuck said:

@Incarnate said:
The game isn't casual, there are ranks, even if the game mode doesn't actually have a name, it's still ranked alright and players ranking up and deranking all the time - so do go saying the game is casual when clearly it's competitive. Even if some people play it more casually, that doesn't make it any less competitive. For the record competitive and casual don't mix well, and quite clearly there are both types of players playing in the same mode because they don't have any other mode.

SWF groups with VoIP does break the intended balance. The game was never intended to have SWF in it, and players weren't intended to be able to communicate. So it does upset the balance quite a lot.

The game is 100% casual.

The game can be played both casually but most certainly also competitively, and casual and competitive don't mix well. But with the ranks in, it's quite obviously more oriented towards being competitive, where whether if people play competitively or casually doesn't change that fact.

@SenzuDuck said:
Moris = Easy wins
Iridescent Heads = Easy Wins
Insta Heals = Easy Chase

If you're going to claim this game is competitive when it has those things in then you're beyond reason.

Hold on a second there, so you're saying just because there are moris, iridencent heads and insta heals then all of a sudden that makes it casual as that represents easy wins? First of all, no, that doesn't mean easy wins at all, and second all they do is tip the scale, but both sides can bring in things to tip the scale to some degree.

@SenzuDuck said:
When one of the most effective tactics is running around and slugging everyone there is no competition, when you can add insta downs to a lot of the killers there is no "competitiveness" to that.

Just because that is an efficient strategy, doesn't mean it's any less of a competition. Because both sides are trying to beat the other. The insta-downs, insta-heals just makes it harder, that still doesn't mean that it isn't competitive. I know the "spirit" of the game "was" intended" to be casual, but the reality is that it isn't. People play the game BOTH casually and competitively, and playing casually don't mix well with playing competitively.

Like if you're five friends sitting down to play everyone's favorite board game, to have a bit of fun, where the spirit of the game is casual but certainly can be played competitively. You're all sitting down to play, three of the players are playing it casually, but two of them are playing it competitively and completely ruining the fun for the casual players, because they're doing what is most efficient, uses the best strategies, and so on. It's exactly the same deal with DbD, because guess what there are people optimizing their builds, discussing what are the best strategies, what is the most efficient, etc. If it isn't intended to being competitive, then they completely remove the ranks, because those are especially making people take it to that competitive level.

@SenzuDuck said:
The game is casual, the ranks are reset every month, and there's no incentive to be at rank 1.

Ranks are reset? No, they're not really reset, there is only a bit of rank loss based on your actual rank, one is not completely reset to rank 20, and even if one were that, it isn't indicative of it being casual, because thats exactly what happens in ladder based modes, which you're essentially doing in DbD, moving up or down one rank at a time.

..and there is an incentive to be rank 1, that is supposed to reflect you one the best players in DbD

@SenzuDuck said:
ITS CASUAL.

No Kill you friend is actually the casual, but it has several drawbacks, it requires friends to play with who owns the game, and you cannot queue alone or as several players, and that mode has everything unlocked and everything is at the highest level and the host has full control of which map it's going to be, etc. So the game does need and actual casual mode that is pretty much like the normal matchmaking, just without the ranks, which shouldn't be very hard to do.

Carpemortum · December 2018

Attackfrog said:

@Carpemortum said:
Someissues said:

This needs to be done tbh. If they are refusing to balance all killers to equal or close power (Which they acknowledged)

then ranked needs to be removed altogether. There's no rank rewards anything. you are only being punished at higher rank with no rewards nor incentive, which leads to people derank

If theres a casual mode, there wont be any needs to buff any killers. every killer will be fine as is as is it for casual mode.

"Rank" isnt a ranked system. It's a way to SOMEWHAT better match the player base. Without it you would have literal pros vs new players. There has to be some sort of rank or mmr or the game is a complete clusterfuck.

Not to mention it resets monthly. ..so....

right now, I play with people at just about any rank

ALlso, ranking is so ridiculous that bad players can easily achieve higher ranks and good players know how to "depip"

Getting rid of the ranked system is a good solution because it really wouldn't change the makeup of matches to anything different than you see now. Instead, it would make the pool larger, resulting in faster q's with just as much chance of playing against a "noob" or "pro" as we have right now.

It would easily and quickly result in many more, very mismatched games. You CAN depip, or pip up easily, but not everyone does or can. It's at least limited to an extent. If they placed game history matchmaking into the game, people would make smurf accounts to troll. Someone will always WANT to play against worse players, and try to make it happen. Removing the rank completely would force regular players who dont troll the rank system into hellish games on the regular.

chemical_reject · December 2018

All u people with these stupid petitions like it's gonna do a damn thing.....smh.

Incarnate · December 2018

@Carpemortum said:
Attackfrog said:

@Carpemortum said:

Someissues said:
This needs to be done tbh. If they are refusing to balance all killers to equal or close power (Which they acknowledged)

then ranked needs to be removed altogether. There's no rank rewards anything. you are only being punished at higher rank with no rewards nor incentive, which leads to people derank

If theres a casual mode, there wont be any needs to buff any killers. every killer will be fine as is as is it for casual mode.



"Rank" isnt a ranked system. It's a way to SOMEWHAT better match the player base. Without it you would have literal pros vs new players. There has to be some sort of rank or mmr or the game is a complete clusterfuck.
Not to mention it resets monthly. ..so....

right now, I play with people at just about any rank

ALlso, ranking is so ridiculous that bad players can easily achieve higher ranks and good players know how to "depip"

Getting rid of the ranked system is a good solution because it really wouldn't change the makeup of matches to anything different than you see now. Instead, it would make the pool larger, resulting in faster q's with just as much chance of playing against a "noob" or "pro" as we have right now.

It would easily and quickly result in many more, very mismatched games. You CAN depip, or pip up easily, but not everyone does or can. It's at least limited to an extent. If they placed game history matchmaking into the game, people would make smurf accounts to troll. Someone will always WANT to play against worse players, and try to make it happen. Removing the rank completely would force regular players who dont troll the rank system into hellish games on the regular.

What they could do, is remove the ranks from player view, but still somehow retain it for matchmaking purposes, so then they could still more accurately put everyone up against more relatively equally skilled players. However I still think that killer rank should be individual.

Carpemortum · December 2018

Incarnate said:
@Carpemortum said:
Attackfrog said:

@Carpemortum said:

Someissues said:
This needs to be done tbh. If they are refusing to balance all killers to equal or close power (Which they acknowledged)

then ranked needs to be removed altogether. There's no rank rewards anything. you are only being punished at higher rank with no rewards nor incentive, which leads to people derank

If theres a casual mode, there wont be any needs to buff any killers. every killer will be fine as is as is it for casual mode.



"Rank" isnt a ranked system. It's a way to SOMEWHAT better match the player base. Without it you would have literal pros vs new players. There has to be some sort of rank or mmr or the game is a complete clusterfuck.
Not to mention it resets monthly. ..so....

right now, I play with people at just about any rank

ALlso, ranking is so ridiculous that bad players can easily achieve higher ranks and good players know how to "depip"

Getting rid of the ranked system is a good solution because it really wouldn't change the makeup of matches to anything different than you see now. Instead, it would make the pool larger, resulting in faster q's with just as much chance of playing against a "noob" or "pro" as we have right now.

It would easily and quickly result in many more, very mismatched games. You CAN depip, or pip up easily, but not everyone does or can. It's at least limited to an extent. If they placed game history matchmaking into the game, people would make smurf accounts to troll. Someone will always WANT to play against worse players, and try to make it happen. Removing the rank completely would force regular players who dont troll the rank system into hellish games on the regular.
What they could do, is remove the ranks from player view, but still somehow retain it for matchmaking purposes, so then they could still more accurately put everyone up against more relatively equally skilled players. However I still think that killer rank should be individual.

Right. Some form of MMR or ELO.....sort of like a rank that's not really ranked......hrmmm......

But in all seriousness, I would agree that simply hiding it would help more than it would harm, but some people would still have issues not knowing their rank, or how good they were. They like the competitiveness of a top rank.

I doubt that creating seperate queues would help THAT much. It may, but most people play at their best. They try to achieve. It may cure all problems, but it would definitely split the playerbase a bit.

There is probably some way to fix the "ranking" system, but completely removing it and its effects, would be terrible.

Incarnate · December 2018

@SenzuDuck said:
Also as for the "SWF was never intended"

https://youtu.be/gTpZSllfMmw?t=582

9 Mins & 14 Seconds will answer you

That still doesn't change the fact that players weren't actually meant to be able to communicate, but it's 2018 so they won't say to people that cannot do that, which Mclean specifically says. The point is, that it wasn't intended for players to be able to relay ton of accurate information to their fellow players, more than a perk or several perks ever could, so by allowing them to do this, it's basically is like saying it's completely ok that you have all of these "free" perks that solo survivors only can have a total 4 of, and actually have to spend perk slots to be able to get some of this information that is completely free for the SWF players - which is completely imbalanced. So attempting to balance for SWF would only really work IF they brought solo players up the same level WITHOUT having to use perks to get it.

Playing against a group of solo victim players is way easier to play against, than a fully coordinated SWF group, like I said, this is something they will not be able to balance, unless they actually bring the solo victim players up to the same level as SWF players. Which basically would be to implement VoIP capability in the game for the victim players. However that wouldn't work either, because there are people who do not have this, even considering we're in 2018, and there are also potential technical issue people could have so they could not use this feature. So the only real way to deal with this, is to have a seperate mode where solo players and swf players being matchmaked together won't be such a big balance issue.

Seanzu · December 2018

@Incarnate said:

@SenzuDuck said:
Also as for the "SWF was never intended"

https://youtu.be/gTpZSllfMmw?t=582

9 Mins & 14 Seconds will answer you

That still doesn't change the fact that players weren't actually meant to be able to communicate, but it's 2018 so they won't say to people that cannot do that, which Mclean specifically says. The point is, that it wasn't intended for players to be able to relay ton of accurate information to their fellow players, more than a perk or several perks ever could, so by allowing them to do this, it's basically is like saying it's completely ok that you have all of these "free" perks that solo survivors only can have a total 4 of, and actually have to spend perk slots to be able to get some of this information that is completely free for the SWF players - which is completely imbalanced. So attempting to balance for SWF would only really work IF they brought solo players up the same level WITHOUT having to use perks to get it.

Playing against a group of solo victim players is way easier to play against, than a fully coordinated SWF group, like I said, this is something they will not be able to balance, unless they actually bring the solo victim players up to the same level as SWF players. Which basically would be to implement VoIP capability in the game for the victim players. However that wouldn't work either, because there are people who do not have this, even considering we're in 2018, and there are also potential technical issue people could have so they could not use this feature. So the only real way to deal with this, is to have a seperate mode where solo players and swf players being matchmaked together won't be such a big balance issue.

I still stand by the statement that if your issue with the game is SWF then you're just a bad killer imo. I bet you dodge as many lobbies in a day as I have full matches.

Incarnate · December 2018

@Carpemortum said:
Incarnate said:

@Carpemortum said:

Attackfrog said:
@Carpemortum said:

Someissues said:
This needs to be done tbh. If they are refusing to balance all killers to equal or close power (Which they acknowledged) then ranked needs to be removed altogether. There's no rank rewards anything. you are only being punished at higher rank with no rewards nor incentive, which leads to people derank If theres a casual mode, there wont be any needs to buff any killers. every killer will be fine as is as is it for casual mode. "Rank" isnt a ranked system. It's a way to SOMEWHAT better match the player base. Without it you would have literal pros vs new players. There has to be some sort of rank or mmr or the game is a complete clusterfuck.
Not to mention it resets monthly. ..so....



right now, I play with people at just about any rank

ALlso, ranking is so ridiculous that bad players can easily achieve higher ranks and good players know how to "depip"

Getting rid of the ranked system is a good solution because it really wouldn't change the makeup of matches to anything different than you see now. Instead, it would make the pool larger, resulting in faster q's with just as much chance of playing against a "noob" or "pro" as we have right now.
It would easily and quickly result in many more, very mismatched games. You CAN depip, or pip up easily, but not everyone does or can. It's at least limited to an extent. If they placed game history matchmaking into the game, people would make smurf accounts to troll. Someone will always WANT to play against worse players, and try to make it happen. Removing the rank completely would force regular players who dont troll the rank system into hellish games on the regular.

What they could do, is remove the ranks from player view, but still somehow retain it for matchmaking purposes, so then they could still more accurately put everyone up against more relatively equally skilled players. However I still think that killer rank should be individual.

Right. Some form of MMR or ELO.....sort of like a rank that's not really ranked......hrmmm......

But in all seriousness, I would agree that simply hiding it would help more than it would harm, but some people would still have issues not knowing their rank, or how good they were. They like the competitiveness of a top rank.

I doubt that creating seperate queues would help THAT much. It may, but most people play at their best. They try to achieve. It may cure all problems, but it would definitely split the playerbase a bit.

There is probably some way to fix the "ranking" system, but completely removing it and its effects, would be terrible.

As it is now, there are already those who're playing the game competitively, and there could be made incentives to playing actual ranked matches, like putting actually rewards up for when the season ends, or something similar. So even if it splits the playerbase, it will still be possible to find a match to play, because if they couldn't find a ranked match right when they wanted to, they could still go play casual and hone their skills. They could even add a tracker/counter, so you'd basically have an idea how many is playing ranked now and how many is playing casual now, maybe even display the actual amount of matches being played for either mode. So I don't think we should worry too much about the playerbase being split a bit, DbD has a very large playerbase to support it, furthermore, there are so many games that have casual and ranked modes, why should DbD be any different?

Personally, I play both casually and competitively, but not both at the same time, which also kind of leads to a dilemma, because that usually makes me hold back on playing, until I'm in the mood and feeling I have enough energy to put in a good competitive effort for the matches I'm going to be playing, but it does happen I take some matches where I'm like screw it, I can get this back easily, especially if there have been a rank reset. I'm sure there are lot of DbD players who're like that. Like I said, casual and competitive don't mix well.

So if they were to make a casual mode, which basically just were like what it is now, just with it's seperate rank that wouldn't be displayed, would be a great step in the right direction.

Incarnate · December 2018

@SenzuDuck said:

@Incarnate said:

@SenzuDuck said:
Also as for the "SWF was never intended"

https://youtu.be/gTpZSllfMmw?t=582

9 Mins & 14 Seconds will answer you

That still doesn't change the fact that players weren't actually meant to be able to communicate, but it's 2018 so they won't say to people that cannot do that, which Mclean specifically says. The point is, that it wasn't intended for players to be able to relay ton of accurate information to their fellow players, more than a perk or several perks ever could, so by allowing them to do this, it's basically is like saying it's completely ok that you have all of these "free" perks that solo survivors only can have a total 4 of, and actually have to spend perk slots to be able to get some of this information that is completely free for the SWF players - which is completely imbalanced. So attempting to balance for SWF would only really work IF they brought solo players up the same level WITHOUT having to use perks to get it.

Playing against a group of solo victim players is way easier to play against, than a fully coordinated SWF group, like I said, this is something they will not be able to balance, unless they actually bring the solo victim players up to the same level as SWF players. Which basically would be to implement VoIP capability in the game for the victim players. However that wouldn't work either, because there are people who do not have this, even considering we're in 2018, and there are also potential technical issue people could have so they could not use this feature. So the only real way to deal with this, is to have a seperate mode where solo players and swf players being matchmaked together won't be such a big balance issue.

I still stand by the statement that if your issue with the game is SWF then you're just a bad killer imo. I bet you dodge as many lobbies in a day as I have full matches.

Is that what you call killers at red ranks, interesting. I guess they are being very, very bad, because it is very bad to kill people. But if you stand by that statement, you're also basically saying it's completely ok for SWF groups to a have a massive benefit by in having "free perks" that solo players never would be able to have or get. Because despite your statement, that is EXACTLY what SWF groups have, which also why it inherently makes it much more difficult to play against an SWF group than a solo group who do not have these massive benefits. So if you disregard that, then you're just being dismissive and ignorant, and really should take a few steps back and review things again from a different perspective. Why? Because I've haven't said anything about my skill level or me having issues with dealing with SWF groups, however I can clearly tell when I'm playing against solo victims or a group of SWF, it is that apparent because SWF makes that big of a difference to not notice.

SWF isn't my only issue with the game, but me finding SWF groups to cause balance issue, has absolutely zero to with my skill level as a killer player, as I happen to play at the red ranks.

I have many issues with the game, because this game does have a lot of issues, which it could be without if the devs actually cared to do what is right, like for instance when they allow things that are clearly exploiting unintended game mechanics to avoid detrimental game mechanic to get an unfair advantage, when they obviously shouldn't have allowed it.

The only lobbies I dodge, are the ones with bad ping or if there are players I know I won't play against, like if they're usually going to be playing toxic or being toxic afterwards or similar - so thats really not that many I dodge, and it happens to be the high ping ones most usually. I don't really dodge any others, I even play against full p3 Claudettes all with toolkits or flashlights, even without Franklin's demise, because I don't need that to be able to win.

Attackfrog · December 2018

@Carpemortum said:
Attackfrog said:

@Carpemortum said:

Someissues said:
This needs to be done tbh. If they are refusing to balance all killers to equal or close power (Which they acknowledged)

then ranked needs to be removed altogether. There's no rank rewards anything. you are only being punished at higher rank with no rewards nor incentive, which leads to people derank

If theres a casual mode, there wont be any needs to buff any killers. every killer will be fine as is as is it for casual mode.



"Rank" isnt a ranked system. It's a way to SOMEWHAT better match the player base. Without it you would have literal pros vs new players. There has to be some sort of rank or mmr or the game is a complete clusterfuck.
Not to mention it resets monthly. ..so....

right now, I play with people at just about any rank

ALlso, ranking is so ridiculous that bad players can easily achieve higher ranks and good players know how to "depip"

Getting rid of the ranked system is a good solution because it really wouldn't change the makeup of matches to anything different than you see now. Instead, it would make the pool larger, resulting in faster q's with just as much chance of playing against a "noob" or "pro" as we have right now.

It would easily and quickly result in many more, very mismatched games. You CAN depip, or pip up easily, but not everyone does or can. It's at least limited to an extent. If they placed game history matchmaking into the game, people would make smurf accounts to troll. Someone will always WANT to play against worse players, and try to make it happen. Removing the rank completely would force regular players who dont troll the rank system into hellish games on the regular.

I consistently get ranked with people all over the board as it is. And at rank reset....why even bother?

kimukipi · December 2018

IMO, SWF should be a separate mode. Both solo and swf mode will be ranked tho with the difference being that killers would get x2 the blood points/Experience/Shards etc as an incentive when playing in SWF mode. Reason is, balancing around SWF (or) solo in the current system isn't possible without breaking either side.

TheHourMan · December 2018

They aren't buffing killers to accommodate swf, they are buffing solo survivors. How? By making communication easier and more in depth. Of course nothing they add will ever be as powerful as voice comm, but it really does make a big difference in terms of solo survivors. And in turn, they are balancing killers around these new survivor changes and additions

Incarnate · December 2018

@TheHourMan said:
They aren't buffing killers to accommodate swf, they are buffing solo survivors. How? By making communication easier and more in depth. Of course nothing they add will ever be as powerful as voice comm, but it really does make a big difference in terms of solo survivors. And in turn, they are balancing killers around these new survivor changes and additions

Which in no way real substancial way makes up for the imbalances between SWF and killer.

TheHourMan · December 2018

This allows the devs to make the killer stringer without hurting solo. It's the first step toward it. You can't expect them to be able to shift the balance of the game in one move. That would take an enormous amount if dev time and might make them lose a good chunk of their playerbase. It has to be bit by bit. The only way to really remove the advantage if swf without killing matchmaking is to remove swf entirely.

Incarnate · December 2018

@TheHourMan said:
This allows the devs to make the killer stringer without hurting solo. It's the first step toward it. You can't expect them to be able to shift the balance of the game in one move. That would take an enormous amount if dev time and might make them lose a good chunk of their playerbase. It has to be bit by bit. The only way to really remove the advantage if swf without killing matchmaking is to remove swf entirely.

They can't fix this the way they're doing it now, no matter how much they implement. The only way they can fix it, is by either bringing the solo survivors up on the same level as the SWF - which won't happen unless they implement VoIP for the victim players and even then that might not be enough - where they then could balance the killer accordingly, and the other way would be to seperate them from each other - which can be done in several ways.

Cymer · December 2018

Not gonna happen!
It would split the player base even more and the queuetimes getting longer.
Maybe we need to rephrase rank into score so people stop thinking overcompetitive of the game.

I just wish the devs find a way to close the gap between the solo survivors and the swfs and also let the killer join the fun, like in Last Year as example. By letting the killer join the voicecom it becomes more fair to everyone and the killer can laugh along with the survivors.

The_Crusader · December 2018

Cymer said:

Not gonna happen!
It would split the player base even more and the queuetimes getting longer.
Maybe we need to rephrase rank into score so people stop thinking overcompetitive of the game.

I just wish the devs find a way to close the gap between the solo survivors and the swfs and also let the killer join the fun, like in Last Year as example. By letting the killer join the voicecom it becomes more fair to everyone and the killer can laugh along with the survivors.

Can't see voice chat ever being pleasant in this game.

- Killer hooks survivor
- Camps

"Stop camping noob"

"Omg go away go die of cancer you ****"

"Lolololol stop rushing the hook then crybabies"

"Will you ******* stop trying to save me and just rush gens"

"**** You blame the killer"

Yeah....best not dealing with that.

Cymer · December 2018

The_Crusader said:

Cymer said:

Not gonna happen!
It would split the player base even more and the queuetimes getting longer.
Maybe we need to rephrase rank into score so people stop thinking overcompetitive of the game.

I just wish the devs find a way to close the gap between the solo survivors and the swfs and also let the killer join the fun, like in Last Year as example. By letting the killer join the voicecom it becomes more fair to everyone and the killer can laugh along with the survivors.

Can't see voice chat ever being pleasant in this game.

- Killer hooks survivor
- Camps

"Stop camping noob"

"Omg go away go die of cancer you ****"

"Lolololol stop rushing the hook then crybabies"

"Will you ******* stop trying to save me and just rush gens"

"**** You blame the killer"

Yeah....best not dealing with that.

Sorry that's just too funny!

Now I need the lol button.
But with maybe those information and clarity could help understand each other better.
But if someone is just bad and blames all the others, just mute them or amuse yourself.

Larcz · December 2018

TheHourMan said:

They aren't buffing killers to accommodate swf, they are buffing solo survivors. How? By making communication easier and more in depth. Of course nothing they add will ever be as powerful as voice comm, but it really does make a big difference in terms of solo survivors. And in turn, they are balancing killers around these new survivor changes and additions

The can use oe create emote circle like in F13 the game.

PandaChris · December 2018

I say just give all survivors voip that the killer cant hear and balance the game around it or limit swf to 2 people. Buffing the killer screws over the solo survivors and buffing the solo survivors is just complicated.

They wont make 2 different systems. The player base isnt big enough. I cant imagine how long the que times would be.

Edit - We again have to realize 70 percent of games are some form of swf. So most games already have voip in them and its not going away

Petition To Either Create Ranked And Casual, OR Balance The Game Around SWF

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