Winning without camping and tunneling.
From my perspective, the only way you can win vs solid SWF's without camping and tunneling is play a killer like Nurse or Blight, they're the only killers that can keep chases short(if you're good at them) and have enough time to 12 hook. But I've seen people here on the forums who think that mid tier and even low tier killers can 12 hook and still 4k vs good survivors if they get good enough with their killers power, there's got to be something I'm missing here because at 3k hours into DBD(with most of it spent of killer) I just can't win without tunneling and camping, I've learned the majority of the killers powers, I know all the general tiles in the game, I know how to chase and loop with most of the killer roster, but I just simply can't win without camping and tunneling if I'm not playing Nurse, Blight, or Spirit.
Comments
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Don't let people gaslight you. If you can 12 hook a lobby with no camping and tunneling with an M1 killer you went up against potatoes.
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If matchmaking is working correctly and matching you against survivors of your level then yes, if you wanna get a 3k or 4k as most killers you will usually need to do some amount of camping or tunneling. Not always mind you.
Just think, if you specifically try to space out hooks and play 'fair', you're putting yourself at a huge disadvantage and will find it very hard to get more than a 2k at endgame doing that.
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3k hours into DBD(with most of it spent of killer)
Jack of all trades master of none. I rounded your 3k hours into 4000 and divided by 25 (altough the game has 29 Killers) and it throws 160 hours per Killer (if we use the real numbers is even less per Killer), I have ~2300 hours in the game (probably around half are on Killer) and I may have around 700 on Myers and 300 on Jigsaw, the rest are split between a few Killers I play occasionally and challenges/ritual.
I dont need to tunnel or camp with Myers to get a 4K even against good Survivors if I get a regular map but I also have a ton of time on him, in the end you are facing people with 2000 hours in Survivor while not being even close to the same time on any specific Killer.
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People will give you grief for camping / tunnelling. But against a decent team, especially with so many top tier perks becoming basekit, its becoming very difficult.
Not to mention map offerings / ridiculous genrush builds. Gens still get SLAMMED out for me.
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So does that mean that playing those Killers is good for the game or does that mean no other Killer is on their level (yes I know that it's a stupid question... but I would like to see your answer on this)
What Build did you use? (if you don't mind answering)... also has it changed over the course of the game's life cycle? (again if you don't mind answering)
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This game is not designed that way. You simply can't get 12 hooks without tunneling, camping, and/or slugging. The devs don't want you to get 12 hooks anyway. Their goal is an average of 2 kills per game. You say that you can't get 12 hooks against good survivors, but I would say that you usually can't get 12 hooks even against average survivors.
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Not true but kinda true. If you lock down a VERY solid 3 gen and have the perks to support it and are okay with the game taking 30 minutes you can do it. Like we are talking eruption, call of brine, and thrilling tremors and being hella patient focusing on just keeping the gens as low as you can until you can get someone out of position and downed.
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For me, the decision not to tunnel is pure Golden Rule. I hate when it's done to me, so I make an effort to not do it to others. I'm sure that's cost me games and I'm okay with that.
To me, DBD is, first and foremost, a game. I'm not responsible for other peoples' fun, but I've also got no reason to go out my way to ruin it.
So I play fair. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, but whichever side wins I aim to play a game neither side minds losing. I tend to have good Endgame chats as a result, so I'm assuming I'm doing something right.
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Yeah, not to be rude, but those people don't know what they're talking about. There's this idea that after 6.1.0, killers should never lose a game no matter the circumstances, and it's just not true. Freddy, Pig, and Clown didn't stop being Freddy, Pig, and Clown just because they got some light qol changes. They're still in need of qol changes as well as buffs. In a game where good Blights and Nurses draw against equally good survivors, the rest of these killers have nothing vs good survivors. "Oh, but if you just play good enough-" No. You cannot out-chase and out-gen the survivors who play efficiently. They don't have to fall for your mindgames, they don't have to waste time healing when they can push gens, and they can throw pallets like candy. The only way you're winning without camping and tunneling is if you do it accidentally, or you're getting 20-second chases max AND the survivors are being inefficient.
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Preach.
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Then keep camping and tunneling. Do it as much as your little heart desires. Whatever you need to win.
But for the love of god, do it quietly.
Every time anyone loses any game for any reason they come right to the forums and it's
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Maps also have a huge impact on the game and will often determine whether you need to tunnel someone
I had a game yesterday playing Sadako on Badham vs a solid team who knew how to loop efficiently. It was my first game of the day so I tried to play as nice as possible with a pretty standard build. 4 man escape
Next game was Midwich with slowdown and I showed no mercy tunnelling someone out of the game as soon as possible. 4 kills
personally I don’t like to tunnel and in an ideal world we wouldn’t have to. but if I’m sent to an awful map and I’m becoming more and more tilted from repeated losses then I just say “screw it, I need a win”
Killers are just as entitled to feeling powerful and winning just as much as survivors are, until the devs balance the maps and buff the weakest killers then don’t feel guilty about tunnelling someone.
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I think Blight, Nurse, and SWF are a problem if players aren't supposed to win consistently, but if they are then everyone else needs to be buffed to around Pinhead level, and solo queue needs a hefty buff.
My builds are typically 2 info perks with a qol perk that also can be used to help my regression perk, so combos like: Agitation and Pain resonance/brutal strength and call of brine, the builds are by no means weak.
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Ok so we can agree with that
Ok was just wondering... Thanks for that
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I’ve played against many killers not nurse or blight who have demolished my SWF without camping or tunneling. They were just good. I currently have 900 hours in the game and the people I play with have 1500, 1100 and 700 hours.
Also…. And this is the most important part: You don’t HAVE to win every single match you play with a 4K. You can still have fun, get good BP, increase your rank etc without needing to 4K every match.
I swear it’s like so many killer mains claim they HAVE to camp and tunnel but the reality is that they think they’re entitled to a 4K match every time and are too lazy to learn how to play their killer and learn their powers and what perks go best with their intent.
you can camp and tunnel all you want but let’s stop with the silly excuses. Lol
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If you don't need to camp or tunnel as myers against "good survivors" then they weren't good survivors.
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I don't enjoy camping and tunneling as killer. I find it incredibly tedious and boring. If I did camp and tunnel, I could push higher MMR, but why? I enjoy the challenge and thought that goes into playing for a 4-8-12 game.
The "4k" doesn't mean anything to me if I don't enjoy the game in the first place. "Winning" is not as important as having a fun and challenging match. I win some, I lose some, I tie some. Just the way it goes. In general i win more than i lose and along the way, my average MMR creeps up as I improve.
People just have different priorities. Mine is enjoying the match, and I don't have to win every game to do that. If you don't want to camp and tunnel, then don't. Take your losses until you get to an MMR that you can win without camping and tunneling. It's pretty simple.
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Its been a long time since I saw a true scotsman fallacy.
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I played a match yesterday where I happened to not camp or tunnel, at all. I’m not against doing it btw but had a 12 hook game against a twitchy. When they died they burst out that “this Oni is trying to play COMP, dude chill out!!!”
I do not play for others. You do not know if they will honor anything you do. Just enjoy your match the way you want to.
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You can play with a lower tier killer and win against good survs without tunneling or camping. But not consistently. Or even often. You're going to have do some repeat hooks and proxy camping/hook defense if you want to compete toward the top of MMR.
I was recently in a match against a pretty good nurse, one of my team immediately disconnected, and we still got a 3E. Now if we played that same scenario out 99 more times, I feel like there would probably have been 95+ 4Ks. Would I then say "hey, you can win 3v1s against Nurses"? Not with a straight face.
Just because a thing can be done, doesn't mean it is reasonable or realistic to use it as a baseline example.
Bottom line is that against really good survs with most killers, a nice evenly distributed 12 hook, no camp (even proxy) match is going to be your outlier, regardless of killer player skill.
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So if you're only goal going into match is to have fun, does that mean chasing survivors? I never understand when people say that, the game gives you the predetermined goal of kill everyone to win, but you choose to focus on one thing, at that point you might as well go play a game like Quake if you just want action without the strategy.
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I mean, if you have a skill of 5, paired with skill of 5 survivors, not tunnel/camp and you should have 2K average.
If you tunnel/camp, you definitely 4K survivors who have similar skill to you. But then you play against higher skilled survivor, your kill rate would stay 2K average again, despite you tunnel/camp them.
I still wonder to this day why so many killer wants to 4k every single match. The game designed to let you get 2K average no matter how hard you try.
Even crazier when average skilled killer wants to buff so they can play on par against players like Zubat Aayrun.
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It's not that I don't try to win, I just don't try to win using a strategy that I find boring and uninteresting, but generally yields a higher success rate. I prefer something that takes far more strategy than camping and tunneling and yields more action. If it fails, that's fine. I had more fun in the attempt than I would winning in a less tactically engaging method. More often than not, I do just fine.
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I went through 6 different mains over the course of 6 months when I started this game. And then I found blight and I cannot fathom for the life of me why anyone would ever play a different character. I mean I can they just have completely different ideals in video games than me. With my lol background all I want is to improve and there is no character that allows for significant growth over long periods of time other than blight, huntress and nurse don't even come close and while Billy's curve's are probably more difficult than some of blight's kit you can master it. Blight can never be mastered and every match has to be played differently because his power is directly correlated to the tile's and what surround's the tiles each game. No character has that much depth and no character even compares to him in the highest skill ceiling. And then after that long, semi relevant spiel he is an s tier character that rewards you for playing well. Blight is simply crack in this video game and now that I have played him any other character is boring due to shift+W. Other than c33 and somewhat alch ring, blight is the most rewarding character for survivor's to play against skill-wise. Weaker killer's you can run forever don't really have the capability to out play you, so it was never really an outplay in the first place
So my long drawn out response is, play blight. I get it if you want to play myers and be immersed but at that point did you ever expect to able to do anything but camp and tunnel? If you want to play that way I can't stop you but bhvr I know I sound biased and I am. But blight fix's all of the issue's this game has on killer side. No shift+w, if you swarm around him like flies you will drop like flies, he really only camps better than half the killer's in this game when he runs iri tag and the only toxic thing about blight is the fact that he can tunnel better every other killer in this game for the most part.
Quite literally most killer's require the survivor's to misplay to get good value. The only way I can think of for weaker killer's to not tunnel and camp is to 3-gen with all the gen kick perks and wait until the survivor's get bored, but that's really just another misplay.
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Tbh i think camping and tunneling is fine if done tastefully. I mean, obv facecamping is bs, but if a team genrushes you or uses a disgusting map offering then its completely fine to proxy camp. Also you dont have to ignore someone just bc they have been unhooked. If they thinl they can bully you, bc they have been unhooked and if you go for them they are toxic in the end game chat, you can go for them. You just shouldnt tunnel people off hook.
I recently had a match with a leon who sent me to the meat plant (i was a pinhead), used meta perks and an insane item plus addons. Afterwards he complained about me proxy camping in the endgame, bc i had like 2 hooks.
I think the biggest problem is not killerd being too weak, but items and maps being too strong. The difference between survs with OP ######### and survs with basic or no items at all is huge.
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Unless someone is playing professionally as killer and clocking in tons of hours, getting 12 hooks or 4k without tunnelling or camping nearly every game is highly improbable.
However, it's not correct to assume the only way of getting it otherwise is playing against "potatoes" (I really dislike that word). It's just not something to expect consistently. The more practice you get, the better the chances.
Yet don't let people put you down by complaining about tunnelling or camping. You bought the game, so play it how you like. In some cases it's the best course of action.
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Even Nurse/Blight and Spirit don't win without camping or tunneling, it's impossible. They are just best at tunneling, that's why they are S tier
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tunneling? yeah probs
camping nah.
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You dont need to camp and tunnel per say, but you will need to focus around 2 people. If you 8 hook the lobby with nobody dying then you will most likely lose.
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You don't have to.
But it's fun to.
Think of it as payback for all the standing around at the exit gate or "repeated crouching"
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As much as in theory it is a scotsman, I see now way a good survivor team can get beaten by a myers, eithout tombstone that is, he is just an m1 killer with hauted grounds sometimes, easy af to loop amd easy af to rudh, how can you lose to that?
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Except it has been done. A player called Knightlight did it and streamed the entire thing. He 4K'd every game with zero tunneling, camping, or slugging. The only exception being 2Ks on huntress and sadako. Anyone saying "but he's a comp player!" is admitting they just aren't good enough at the game. It is very much doable if you are good enough. "I can't win without camping/tunneling" is copium for people who are bad at the game but have too much ego to admit it.
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That's the issue though. People will flat out claim that it's IMPOSSIBLE to win without camping/tunneling because THEY can't do it. Even though there is evidence of very good killers winning without these tactics. Yes you need to be good but the way people claim it's impossible is ridiculous. It's more accurate for them to say they aren't good enough to win without camping/tunneling. Saying that it's impossible is objectively incorrect.
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I just checked his stats. He has played 28 killer games. He has 4k'd in 22 (~79%) of them. And in only 3 of those games he actually got 12 hooks. I don't know what to do with those stats. Way too messy. When I say you usually can't go for 12 hooks if you play super nice, I also mean against people who really want to play the game. Not people who kill themselves on the hook or dc.
Personally, I didn't even say it was impossible in the first place. I'm comparing the average killer to the average survivor. The thread creator himself included only the good survivors when he said that you can't get 12 hooks against those types of players. And both statements are correct imo.
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True, and it's difficult for people to admit they perhaps are not as good as they claim. Many players will have inflated ideas about their own skills, or blame their performance on other players or unfair tactics, when if they looked objectively at their plays across their trials they may realise there are mistakes which they can learn from, yet refuse not to.
Rather than see scenarios, as you say, as something that is impossible, it's better to see it as a challenge. There was a video by Coconut which had him seeking to achieve something a survivor did to him that seemed ridiculous, but he saw it as a challenge. That's a much healthier attitude to have.
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