New idea to counter face camping
As of late, there have been many inclusions yo dbd to counter tunneling. Such as perks like off the record and DS (which should be reverted back to 5 sec) and built in borrowed time to the maximum degree it can be implemented.
However the biggest issue that most survivors are tired of having to deal with that has almost no counter in some scenarios is face camping. Its nothing but toxic and rather unfun for the survivor that waited to load in only to hang on the hook until they die. Most commonly done by Leatherface, who is literally designed to benefit this way but all killers are capable of face camping. So I had two ideas to counter this frustrating playstyle.
- This one somewhat requires some changes to the way killer powers work. There are two killers in the game who cannot use their ability next to hooked survivors. The twins and the artist. The Artist cannot place any crows around a hooked survivor, if you want to send a crow to a generator or a totem etc., they have to be a certain distance away from the hop to do. Why is this not a common mechanic included for all killers? Why is a killer like the artist unable to user her ability but a Leatherface can be in the hooked survivors face and still be able to use his chainsaw?
- The second idea comes with the changing of two perks. Those being Reassurance and Deliverance. As of now only 1 perk really only helps with face camping, and that’s reassurance. My idea was to change the way reassurance works. Instead of just being a 30 second pause to the hook timer, I would have it as a token system much like small game. The perk starts with 5 tokens, everytime a Gen is completed it loses a token. If the killer is face camping the hook timer doesn’t move. Once 2 tokens are gone the hooked survivor gets a 100% chance to unhook themselves. This only works if the killer is actively face camping. Once the exit gates are powered the perk acts like how it currently does and only pauses the timer for 30 seconds.
- As for Deliverance, I would add an extra benefit to this perk. Right now, you only get value from this perk if you safely unhook a survivor, only if you aren’t hooked first. If you get hooked first this perk basically becomes useless. So my idea was to add a built reassurance to this perk. If you safely unhook a survivor after you’ve been hooked, you can pause your own wiggle timer for 20 seconds, a built in reassurance. This gives the perk much more value and isn’t a waste of you get hooked first.
Those are my ideas, to clarify the reassurance buff would only work in a face camping situation. Would like to see what you think of these ideas and what changes you’d make. Thanks for reading.
Comments
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In my opinion they should focus on changing the game itself to make facecamping and tunneling less viable. We should NOT rely on perks to solve base game problems.
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I agree that survivors should not rely on perks to prevent camping and tunnelling. By all means have perks that make it easier to deal with certain situations, that include camping, but these perks should not be required to be strong enough to prevent those circumstances altogether. They are afterall the choices the killers make.
Instead, those choices should come with greater consequences to the killer.
I'm not too sure where I sit on disabling killer powers around the hook. Currently the only disabled powers are those that involve instantly attacking or returning to the hook despite potentially being the other side of the map. AKA being in two places at once, and thus allowing the killer to 'facecamp' AND pressure other survivors at the same time. Hag is a bit of an exception but she's still required to be within range of her traps, which can be 100% countered by survivors anyway.
Disabling Bubba's power, or indeed Billy's, or even Pyramid Head's, doesn't sit well with me because in order to use those powers, killers have to give up all other pressure in the game, and fully commit to facecamping. Instead, that full commitment should come with the innate cost that discourages camping in the first place.
As I just posted in another topic:
Tunnelling: There should be more incentive to hooking different survivors. Old BBQ used to be a fairly decent one, and I'm pretty sure that's partly why the new post-6.1 meta includes more tunnelling. A basekit score bonus on first hooks on each survivor would be a nice start, but unlikely to make a big impact on it's own, it wouldn't be a +25% multiplier like old BBQ was.
As for camping, some sort of survivor-bloodlust mechanic, where if the killer is within x meters of the hook for long enough, everyone gets a +5%, +10%, +15% bonus to action speeds (including repairs, healing, unhooking etc.) This would make facecamping a hook incrementally less 'easy' the longer you're there, and make the "just do gens" counter more likely to actually penalise camping. Yet this wouldn't punish camping as a legitimate choice, because all the legitimate uses of camping involve the presence of other survivors, and if they're around the hook then they're not doing gens and getting that repair bonus anyway.
As for the duration, given that each hook state is 60s, I'd say 20s is a nice round number. After 20s of facecamping, all survivors get +5% action speed bonus, 40s is +10%, and 60s being a full hookstate and starting stage 2 gives survivors their +15% and almost guarantees they get all the gens done if they make use of it.
In addition to basekit changes though, killer perks are the next best target. After all BBQ had a significant effect, and I stand by the position that Ruin and Pop pre-6.1 were a healthy meta, you only got value out of them by leaving the hook and pressuring gens. The new meta of Pentimento, Call Of Brine, Eruption etc. doesn't require you to avoid camping and tunnelling to pay off.
You want to make 'not'-camping the more profitable strategy, and if the meta perks didn't work while camping, then camping wouldn't be a meta strategy. We should go back to the old meta by buffing the following perks:
Hex: Ruin - Required killers to leave a hook and pressure gens to get value out of it.
Pop Goes The Weasel - Forces killers to leave the hook to pressure gens to get value out of it.
Scourge: Pain Resonance - Gave killers an objective to go to after a hook.
BBQ & Chilli - Gave killers an objective to go to after a hook, and encouraged to spread hooks out between survivors.
Hex: Devour Hope - Requires killers to allow a hook rescue to take place.
Make Your Choice - Forces killers to go after the unhooker instead of the unhookee.
Scourge: Gift of Pain - Encourages killer to leave the unhooked survivor alone to get value out of it.
Grim Embrace - Encourages the killer to spread out hooks between different survivors.
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But all of that depends on if the Killer uses these perks
But something else needs to happen to make camping unreliable...
MMR system needs to include Gens and Hooks... Not just Kills and Escapes
Killer should lose more BP for Camping... but that won't matter unless ^That happens^
Also....
No Way Out encourages Killers to hook all 4 Survivors to get the most
Dying light encourages Killers to hook multiple Survivors
Thanatophobia encourages Killers to injure multiple Survivors
Call Of Brine encourages Killers to kick gens to get any value out of
Same with Overcharge and Eruption
So a lot of the perks aren't the best for camping... other then Deadlock and Insidious (off the top of my head)
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They will use the perks, that's why it's called a meta.
We categorically did not get as much camping and tunnelling before 6.1, and before 6.1 perks like Pop and Ruin were meta, and the only way to maximise their value was to not camp.
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Make it so survivors can sacrifice a portion of their struggle time to get sent to another hook. When that happens, the killer does not see where they went for 30-60 seconds.
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Would be a neat idea for a perk, but shouldn't be basekit, and it shouldn't be necessary to run a perk like this.
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I would totally make it basekit, that way you wouldn't need to run a perk to deal with hook camping. That said, the cost of switching hooks could be adjusted.
Right now, everyone always looks at complex ways to deal with camping as an issue. Make abilities not work, do something where the radius of the killer effects the timer, etc. The ability for the survivor to say "this hook sucks" and switch places would be one of the easiest ways to fix the issue. It requires the least amount of nuanced coding as well.
Also, to make it a bit more "fair", it could just switch them to another hook NOT of their choice. Probably the furthest away from their current hook. That only requires a distance check between hooks. A perk could come later that allows them to pick their hook, but at cost of more timer or even an entire hook phase.
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And what about legitimate camping scenarios?
All gens have been repaired so the killer has no other objective besides the hook.
You hook a survivor but others are immediately there to attempt to farm them off it.
You chase a survivor and they lead you back to the hook.
None of those scenarios are ones in which the killer was at fault or should be penalised, they're mistakes the survivors made, or circumstances survivors shouldn't be expected to have a 'get out free' card. Being able to bypass the entire hook mechanic should cost a perk slot at the very least.
Remember, camping is still a legitimate tactic, to secure a kill in exchange for giving up all other gen/survivor pressure. They just need to balance that equation and make it actually cost something to camp. I.e. camping a survivor at 5 gens should ensure that, if the survivors countered it appropriately by 'just doing gens', that all 5 gens could be repaired in that time and the killer would only get a 1K.
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But then the most picked perks have the same effect... BBQ, Call Of Brine, Eruption... STBFL kinda sorta
So again it's up to the Killer to run these perks... them being "meta" doesn't matter
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That's the whole problem.
6.1 didn't just change up the meta, it swapped one meta for another meta, and that new meta is more toxic.
Call Of Brine and Eruption being meta is entirely the problem, because they don't lose value if you camp or tunnel.
BBQ, Ruin and Pop DID lose value if you camped and tunnelled. Hence, less camping and tunnelling while those perks were meta.
If you're not understanding why, consider this: Pop required you to make a hook, and then you had 45 seconds in which to find a generator that's been repaired at least 25% and kick it. This requires you to leave the hook after you've hooked someone. Conversely Eruption and Call of Brine have no prior hook requirement, can easily be used mid-chase or before a chase because there's no hook-requirement. Meanwhile BBQ gives you information that's at least 40m away from the hook, requiring you to move at least 40m away from the hook to use that information.
If Call Of brine and Eruption are nerfed out of the meta, so that no one is running them or at least not running then every other game as the de facto gen defence perks, then you will see a lot less camping and tunnelling.
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You get your version of reassurance if killers get deadlock that blocks all gens for 3 minutes to combat genrushing
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No to get the most out of Call Of Brine and Eruption... you can't camp or Tunnel... you have to spend time kicking Gens
You aren't Camping and Tunneling if you are kicking Gens
BBQ is still the most used Killer perk (FMI)
And the real reason why Ruin isn't used is cause it's a Totem that lasts anywhere from 15-30 seconds at the vary least
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This needs to be a perk goddamn it
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Well, if it costs an entire hook phase, they'd realistically only be able to do it on first hook. That would make the ability to late game camp much more viable. It would mostly settle early game camping.
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What about face camping when all gens are done
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In terms of losing a killer power when near the hook, there is one probable way of making it, which punishes a killer earlier on but changes as the game progresses.
If there was a radius around the hook where a killer could not use their power which shrinks after every gen is used, then that for me would be a bit fairer.
My reasoning is that towards the end a killer may have nothing else to do other than camp to either put on pressure, or if all gens are gone, so punishing for face-camping endgame (which may be the only viable thing left) should not be punished. But face-camping early on when a survivor is down and no gen is done is a bit crappy, so the radius should be larger to discourage it for a quick down.
Alternatively, have a small radius which slows down the timer. Don't stop the timer, because perks like Kinship or Reassurance would then be absolutely pointless, but make it slow enough that it's just dumb to do it.
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Some survivors should focus more on how they could have avoided the killer or win the chase than fixating on the results of their failures.
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You're not wrong but it is unlikely to change any time soon.
Gen regression should be 1:1 killer to survivor repair rates.
The correct course of action is to make base changes to the game so that hooking a survivor you didn't hook last slows down all the other survivors without any perk interactions. Until that happens it is just better to tunnel one person out.
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