New Perk for Killer - Scourge Hook: Fatigue

CrusaderNella
CrusaderNella Member Posts: 331
edited November 2022 in Creations

You take advantage of driving the survivors towards their natural limits.


At the start of the Trial, 4 random Hooks are changed into Scourge Hooks

● The Auras of Scourge Hooks are revealed to you in white.

Each time a Survivor is unhooked from a Scourge Hook, the following effects apply:

● The unhooked Survivor cannot be inflicted with the Exhausted Status Effect for 35/25/15 seconds once.

● For the next 50/70/90 seconds if a Survivor gains the Exhausted Status Effect, except through the effect of a Killer Perk, extend the duration of that Exhausted Status Effect by 5 seconds, also they are inflicted with the Incapacitated Status Effect, for as long as they remain with the Exhausted Status Effect.



Let me know your thoughts on this perk.

Edit: Removed the token system. As well, you cannot trigger the improved Exhaustion through killer perks.

Post edited by CrusaderNella on

Comments

  • Header
    Header Member Posts: 280

    this is really confusing

  • CrusaderNella
    CrusaderNella Member Posts: 331

    Basically

    Hook person on scourge hook. When you hook a new person, gain a token.


    When that person is unhooked, they cannot be inflicted Exhaustion once. So they can use Dead Hard once and it wont make them exhausted.

    But also, for 90 seconds after that, for every token on the perk, when a survivor becomes exhausted it lasts longer for each token, and if they ever become exhausted, they also become incapacitated.


    I hope this explains it

  • hastarkis
    hastarkis Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 580

    So, yellow perks grant 60 seconds of exhaustion. Plus 5 seconds for each token. And you suggest to make someone incapacitated for all that time up to 110 seconds? It's better to just delete those players from the game x)

    Also:

    1) general perk with exaustion on gens (demogorgon's one): loose-loose situation, you either don't touch gens for 90 seconds or touch them and don't touch them again for 20+ seconds. No counterplay except "don't get downed" or "don't touch gen" which contradict the whole game loop. Worse than eruption.

    2) being unhooked, tunneled by pig and get the hat with exaustion addon. Now you are incapacitated as long as you have hat. Also, the hat can be put on you before the hook because exaustion effect will be back after 15 seconds from the hook.

    3) being unhooked and then tunneled to activate the perk. There the perk becomes kinda odd because killer kinda have to tunnel to make player use exaustion perk and then killer should drop the chase to get value. No one (in most cases) will drop the chase with unhooked person, they will tunnel and it will be even more easy with no mid-chase heals or flashlights.

    4) accidental balance landing. Sometimes this perk activates on a smallest drops ever. It's frustrating enough even without incapacitated effect tbh lol

    Sooo looks kinda broken. And complicated. Maybe if it's not incapacitated... Still design of the perk incentives tunnelling as far as I can imagine.

  • CrusaderNella
    CrusaderNella Member Posts: 331

    I'm still very iffy with numbers cause I am not a high tier player.


    So it would be broken. How would you suggest I change the numbers to make it more fair? It is basically meant to make exhaustion more punishing for everyone, except the person you hooked. The free use of a Exhaustion perk for the unhooked survivor is meant to discourage tunneling.


    So, can you see a version of this perk working?

  • CrusaderNella
    CrusaderNella Member Posts: 331

    Also I may have forgotten about demodoggo's perk. Woops

  • hastarkis
    hastarkis Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 580
    edited November 2022

    Well, I ain't great at such things. I maybe can see some broken interactions but I don't have creativity in that manner tbh xD And I totally missed that it's for all survivors.

    >>The free use of a Exhaustion perk for the unhooked survivor is meant to discourage tunneling.

    You made it 15 seconds on tier 3. It means that only sprintbursters can get any value out of it. In all other cases killer come back within 5-15 seconds (proxy camp), chase starts just when immunity run out and now survivor can't use exhaustion without penalty. Plus, you see, in most cases survivors can choose to use ther exhaustion perk or not to. Except sprintbursters. Sprintbursters will use their perk the very first second they press shift+w to run from you. And after first one for free they will be forced to use it again facing consequences no matter what because they can't run from you without running. So even if you make this effect longer than 15 seconds it will hurt SB significantly more than other exhaustion perks and it's not fair, I think.

    What can I suggest here. Those suggestions are independent from each other.

    1) Maybe it shoudn't be a scorge hook, scorge hooks don't have long value. They either have one-hit value (like PR) or affect one specific person (like Gift of Pain). Your perk sounds more like a hex. Like devour hope kind, you know. Or third seal but with exhaustion insted on blindness and smth. We also have Blood Echo, so maybe you can get inspiration there.

    2) If you want scorge hook then maybe make only this survivor affected but only after they healed (gift of pain again). Like, upon being healed this person get exhaustion status effect until injured again. After loosing health state by any means exhaustion status effect remains for 7(?) additional seconds. It won't let survivors use exhaustion until injured and then give them chance to get rid of it while in chase.

    3) If you want to add additional effect it shoudn't be incapacitated effect. Firstly, because this is super opressive effect and shouldn't be too long (see all Eruption treads). Secondly, because incapacitated has its value if survivor isn't in chase. But survivors use exhaustion perks while in chase. So you kinda waste either your time or perk. The only true value you can get is if you pair it with other perks and addons with exhaustion which is... well, it doesn't punish survivors for their exhaustion, it makes exhaustion (the one that killer put you in) worse.

    You should remember that not only survivors have exhaustion perks but also killers have perks and addons to cause it, so your perk can't be too oppressive because can create dead combos.

    4) If you want to punish exhaustion, maybe you can play with "escape chase" thing. But you should be super careful here because it can be easily abused by killers (like Pigs do for people with active RBT or like legions chased deep wounded people walkind backwards because deep wound was attached to chase and went down without it). So effect should be useful only if survivor is trully out of chase.


    In general, I don't think it's a good idea to make perks that don't cause status effects but depend on status effects. If you want any consistency with them you HAVE to pair this perk with ANYTHING that cause exhaustion. Otherwise if you unluckily face group of survivors without any exhaustion perk (it happens, especially if they have balance on map without any hill) then you wasted your slot for nothing. That's the reason why people don't like Shattered Hope.

    So your safest way is to make perk that CAUSE exhaustion in the first place and then make smth more after exhaustion is here (so this effect will apply even if survivors will make them exhausted themselves). But this "smth more" should be either pretty minor or should have any way to get rid of it faster than exhaustion itself.

    TBH, I really like "make exhaustion longer" feature, it's like lethal but for exaustion. BUT. But. All those "5 seconds per token" can be super broken with killers' addons and perks. When killer can apply only 5 seconds of exhaustion and then can make it 40 - it's kinda... off. Maybe, you can use persentage. Smth like prolong status effects for 20%. Then it will be ok with both survivors perks and killers perks/addons and will be like Vigil but for killers that works for Exposed and all other effects.


    Soooo yeah. It's up to you but that's my thoughts. And still, IMHO, the best way to punish for exhaustion is to cause it by yourself denying ALL possible exhaustion perks beforehead :DD

  • CrusaderNella
    CrusaderNella Member Posts: 331

    I see