6 days of playing the Knight, this is my final verdict.
So for these 6 days, I've been playing mostly the Knight (other killers here and there), so in what conclusion I've become... In short: This killer is pretty strong. Fun to play as. Consistent. (Ai sometimes buggy, but Developers working on it)
I just want to point his strong sides and weak sides, considering my gameplay and the tactic I was using against the survivors I were getting with him (same with Hag):
This is the build: (Sometimes I use BBQ instead of FOR)
Tactic:
- After beggining of the match you go near to the gen they are working on, using Lethal pursuer. (power distance)
- You quickly putting a guard from sides of this gen, not directly at the gen (If you put orb a little to the right, they will obviously try to avoid the radius by going left for example), make sure the orb is out of their los, with map of the realm addon (almost impossible) for survivors to avoid the radius.
- After the haunt started, carefully keep a close eye on the guard on which direction he's chasing a survivor. Don't get fooled - survivors can go through your guards, while they "floating" to place a banner.
- Depending on the direction, cut short the distance between you and survivor, keep watching the direction of your guard - if you lost los on that survivor. You've got plenty of time with "dried horsemeat" addon.
- Move ahead of this survivor to the point of a "sandwich", and hit. You might even end up in a situations where you can double hit a survivor at the pallet or window.
- If survivor trying to loop your guard (you will notice by guard aura), watch your banner, don't let them get it. (Most likely they will hold W against your power, so it's a pretty niche scenarios)
In the middle of a chase:
- After hitting a survivor, keep an eye on where they're heading, use your ability and put a guard ahead of their movement, don't forget: they can see the orb and they will try to mind game this orb, hear closely for footsteps and put a guard a slightly further. Start the haunt and use points 3, 4 and 5 from a Tactic. (Repeat)
- If they go into you while you a "green orb", quickly place a guard and move forward.
- If you missed, don't forget that you can hit the guard to reset your power, and try again.
- You can use the ability to zone survivors out, or cut their movement (make them go other way) to receve a hit without starting a haunt.
The Knight is a killer about predictions, zoning and working with your guards (sandwich tactic). Knowing the behaviour of the guards and the pathing (map knowledge) you will get hits and downs pretty consistent.
The things you don't do while playing the Knight:
- Never go the same path as your guards (unless you really close to that survivor), try to move to the direction this survivor is trying to reach and cut them off in a "sandwich".
- If you missed the ability, don't leave the guard wondering the area, if you can easily hit him and remove cd from your power. Leave them only when you chasing a survivor on completely other direction, don't lose distance.
- After downing a survivor, don't rush to pick them up, you most likely will want to use a power before picking up and create a haunt before hooking. Or to prevent a flashlight save (pallet stun). Make sure the area is safe to pick up, with his power it's easy to do. Or you just want to use a guard to brake a dropped pallet or a near gen before picking up.
- I find "tapping" his ability at loops pretty inconsistent, most of the time by doing that, you just forcing them to move out from a loops, you're not gaining distance, you wasted a power, and they can easily reach another pallet, without being haunted. Instead, try to move this orb slightly away from this loop (forward almost everytime), to get an easy haunt, without caring about a pallet just move and try to "sandwich" them.
- Don't put a guard at hooked survivors. Since unhooking animation removing a guard, it's useless waste of your power. Keep your power to find a different survivor on a gen, or you can use your ability right after unhooking, if you noticed a survivor going for unhook.
- Don't focus on 1 survivor, even if you catch 1 of them in a haunt, if there is another survivor, chase the second survivor yourself. By doing so you're creating a presure and might end up injuring both survivors.
Prons:
- Survivors can't loop this killer. His ability is a hardcore anti-loop, if they try, most likely they will get hit or go down.
- The Knight is a hardcore zoning killer. Haunted survivors don't get much of a choice but leaving the loops over and over to the point of "Knight in front, Guard behind" - Sandwich.
- The Knight can recieve a double hit (out of a sandwich) on a same survivor, in most of these scenarios, survivors getting hit by a guard and moving right into you, when you were out of their los, and you were about to catch them in a "sandwich".
- Ability is easy to use, these addons will help you getting used to it, and get an easy (first try) haunt, and give you more time to "sandwich" them.
- The Knight don't need to use "pallet shredder" perks. In most scenarios (if not all) you just don't care about pallets. If chased survivor is haunted, you can completely forget about pallets, survivors will not camp them, they most likely will hold W, if not, it's an easy hit.
- You can use the power against survivors to get them haunted on a second floor in the open maps by using it outside. (Main building).
- The Knight can brake stuff (gens, pallets), while he's picking up and carrying a survivor to a hook. He can also brake stuff on a distance.
- The Knight is very consistent on the maps like Gideon. With many "dead-ends".
- Despite this killer don't have any "teleportations", he can force survivors out of a gens from a distance (max patrol range).
- The Knight is really good at: "making survivors panic". You will find that even a really good "loopers" while they haunted and chased by you, will make a lot of mistakes out of a panic. They will vault onto you, they will hesitate, they will make a bad movement.
The Knight is a really strong killer, if you get used to his ability on all maps, and if he's played by a really expirienced killer main who knows the maps well.
But he's not ideal due to his cons:
Cons:
- He's №1 weakness - Survivors Shift+w. Even if you consistently catching survivors in a "sandwich", out of sheer W holding you might find yourself chasing 1 survivor for a quite long time, considering the gens speed.
- The Knight's power can be hardly countered by DH. Most of the time, if survivor is cornered or about to get "sandwiched", they will use DH into you, or the guard (most likely the guard), to avoid getting down and prolonging the chase.
- The Knight is map dependant (he feels weaker on open maps), addon dependant (it's really hard to catch survivors in a radius without a "map of the realm" addon and you most likely will not have enough time to "sandwich" a survivor without "dried horsemeat" addon), perk dependant (with the time you wasting on a chases, you must have at least 2 strong gen regressing perks).
- Weak against well-coordinated "swf". Healthy survivors can "take over" a haunt (leaving you without a power for a while), healthy survivors can take a hit by bodyblocking a guard (guards hitting anyone who's in front of them).
- (In the meantime) The guard's AI is buggy, sometimes (really rare) you find them stuck or getting confused at the loops.
After playing this killer for a while, getting used to this tactic, against a vary of survivor's perks, their gameplays, swfs... I personaly think that this killer is pretty strong, fun to play as, consistent.
When Developers fix the AI (to prevent rare scenarios) and some of his bugs, to me it's a solid high B-tier, just because of a DH and time you spending to "sandwich".
This is the last post I'm making about the new killer, now I'm gonna continue to improve on this tactic, gl and hf in your matches guys!
Comments
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In my opinion i disagree, by the time he's acomplished something while utilising his power in his current state, whether that's a hit or a down or wasting a specific survivor's time, you've already lost 2 or even 3 gens. Other killer's such as Artist and Dredge do what he does but better, in terms of getting results as Anti-loop. C tier maybe, in current state.
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I agree that i enjoy it a little more and is less bad than i thought in tue begening.
Still weak, against no potato survivors its hard, yes you will eventually trap and hit, thing is that is slower than other killers.
I hope for some fixes and buffs but yeah i can see this killer hard to balance at early stages because it has a very different power.
At least have good adeons.
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He's terrible. Worst killer in the game. Trapper is better
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He's not as bad as I initially thought, but I do find his games really drag on when playing against a decent team or SWF. I've actually won most of my games with him using 3 perk regression build & nowhere to hide, but the games against good teams take like 25 mins because it's basically just running my 3 gen regression and sending out jailers to harass. Eventually I'll wear them down and break enough pallets or land some downs to slowly win the game, but it takes a long time. Most of the time the matches feel quite uneventful and play out the same way.
I've tried other fun builds on him, but he just doesn't have the fast chase potential and map pressure I normally like in my killers to pull these kind of builds off.
As things stand though a good team just outplays any kind of minion interaction on him. Yeah you can force people out of a loop easily, but by the time you've done that they're half way to the next loop. Once you create dead zones is much easier to force them out a loop and get a hit/down, but until that point is better to use his power to lock down certain areas/gens and patrol potential paths survivors might take to go for a rescue. Obviously if you have an easy loop with dead spots it's good to use them to secure a hit on those areas.
Not the best, not the worst. If you enjoy long drawn out games that you slowly wear down your opponent then he's probably the perfect killer for you.
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I feel like you really over exaggerating his weaknesses. I played him for about 6-7 days from release, in almost all of my games I was consistently making a first hook, when survivors only been able to do 1 gen (not a single gen sometimes). My chases with him are not longer than 1 guard haunt time. (usually it's 15-20 seconds, sometimes 12 seconds chases)
Usually if they using DH on a guard to prolonge the chase, I go to defend a generator they were working on and starting a new haunt with different survivor. DH is the first reason why I can't put him on A-tier, since it's a hard counter and you can't prevent your guard from hitting a survivor into DH.
But still, DH is good even against Artist at that point, it's also the same with Artist that before you getting a first hook, they will be able to do 1-2 gens. Even with Nurse! This is just how the beggining of the match works with ANY killer, first generators are the most fastest to repair, since toolboxes and time they have to make it.
To me, there is 0 ways that Trapper or Dredge is stronger at chases than him. That only makes me think like you're trolling me, or you extremely over exaggerating the Knight's weak side.
Yes, sometimes chases are super quick, sometimes it's over 35 seconds chases (due to DH and map). Unfortunatelly, you have to use a 2-4 gen regression perks (3 most of the time).
Any time I was tapping my ability at loops, it felt like I was just wasting time. So I started to learn how to use his power correctly to get a consistent haunt.
"I find "tapping" his ability at loops pretty inconsistent, most of the time by doing that, you just forcing them to move out from a loops, you're not gaining distance, you wasted a power, and they can easily reach another pallet, without being haunted. Instead, try to move this orb slightly away from this loop (forward almost everytime), to get an easy haunt, without caring about a pallet just move and try to "sandwich" them." - it's from my first post.
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How so? Trapper has to set up early game and struggles even harder to counter loops now that traps are hard to hide on new maps.
Even then a good SWF can just disable his power
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Is this some copy pasta joke?
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I feel like Knight's issue is there are a lot of poor design decisions not that he's weak. I do agree with most of what you said but my personal issue is in the grand scheme of things bad in the general 4v1 scenario as most M1 killers are but he's kind of oppressive in certain tiles. You pretty much depend on tiles being chained together as there's no way to consistently loop him which I'll be honest. I feel like any killer who can ignore pallets shouldn't exist - right now the only one who really ignores pallets is Nurse. I'm not saying Knight is Nurse level strong because in no way they are. I just find it silly that his guards phase through pallets essentially allowing him to "eventually" get a guaranteed hit by just holding W sandwiching the survivor because he forced the survivor to run out of the tile in one of the laziest ways possible.
I genuinely want to hear a survivor tell me they enjoy playing against The Knight. I'm sure many including myself to an extent enjoy playing them. However (and maybe I've missed it) but I've yet to read anyone say they enjoy versing them. To some degree I mostly take issue with the fun factor with the killer more than how strong they are. They are definitely not weak / low tier they have way too much utility to be as weak as a lot of people have been preaching. I'd essentially place him high C / Low B if we're going off of that kind of tier list. Contrary to a lot of views that isn't terrible.
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everything in knights kit takes too long to get value. you chase with guards, theyre despawned before they do anything or the survivor gets the flag, a speed boost and a free hit if you lunged for it, or they hold w as soon as you start summoning and the guard is left in narnia, or said guard does start chase but the survivor could stand still and the guard would still be too slow to get close before despawning, or another survivor steals the guard so you dont have a chase power for like 20-30 seconds. you can use guards to break pallets while chasing but the survivors get about 12m of distance in the time it takes to summon and regain movement. the guards have specialised purposes but you rarely get to use the correct guard for the situation since you cant cycle between them. its like artist and trapper had a child and it got all the bad genes
if youre gonna run knight i recommend - corrupt, deadlock, call of brine, overcharge: you wont get consistent downs against half decent survivors so no point in running eruption over overcharge, if youre survivors are bad enough to go down to a basic m1 whos even more susceptible to the w key than the average killer then go for eruption or jolt or both. if you need shadowborn then i recommend swapping out overcharge to be able to play
i recommend running the cold steel manacles and lightweight greaves as addons. they give you some chase potential if you get jailer, and you get jailer twice in a row.
p.s youve obviously had a different experience to me, probably due to mmr and region differences, but this is my perspective from constantly vsing 3k+ hour survivors, a good 80% of which are 4man swfs
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It's a killer design that has an extremely unhealthy playstyle that allows survivors only two things in the game: sit on gens (boring), hold W (boring).
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Id like to see Carnifex reworked so that he automatically approaches gens/pallets within his radius, making him an interaction guard only. As for the other two, I think the Assassin should be quicker and chase for a bit longer, whilst Jailer gets a huge radius but chases the same.
Versed a knight last night who only used guards to break pallets and kick gens .... such a waste
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This is a well thought out and helpful post. The things mentioned here are also the same things I've been finding effective with a few extras. Although I will say that I've found the responses in this thread to be mostly disappointing. A person takes the time to write out a long post about what they've found works and doesn't work with the new killer and the first thing someone does is, instead of reading it, just say "Knight sucks trash killer."
There's also this insistence that the only way to use Knight's power is to just drop a guard on a tile to zone and then chase as an M1 killer and the insistence that's the only way to play him but also it's not very effective and sucks. Similar to OP, I've found this is commonly the least efficient way to use his power except in certain circumstances (also it can be pretty effective with the Jailer).
While you can't necessarily choose which specific guard for a specific circumstance, having a realistic understanding of what they can do is pretty helpful. I have found that they are different enough that it matters which one I use and how I use it.
Carnifex: While he's unlikely to get hit during a hunt, he's pretty good at harassing a survivor. Due to the long amount of time it takes to grab the standard and how long his hunts are, you can send him to harass a survivor while you take care of business somewhere else. They'll usually just be forced to waste at least 10 seconds of time and possibly 24 seconds if they don't come back for the standard. If they come back for the standard, that usually means that they stayed in the same area and you can flank them to get a hit.
Assassin: The only guard that can do solo chases. His detection range and hunt duration are a bit weak (fixed by the addons OP used), but he'll be the most efficient in chases. The other guards require the Knight to usually be the one to get the hit but the extra speed does help. I thought he was the weakest at first, but have changed my mind to believe he's the strongest for chase oriented playstyles.
Jailer: The trickiest guard. When using this one, you MUST be certain a hunt will start or use him to break a pallet. He patrols for too long of a time and you won't have a power during that entire time. It's tempting to use him as a detector for those on the hook, but I generally find that to be not very useful. He can be useful to hold a 3 gen with the longer patrol radius. At the same time, his larger detection radius makes him the easiest guard to use by just dropping at a pallet.
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I got his adept without paying attention to the guard types. I just used them often and it worked out. I also enjoy the guard's screams as they chase and when they get downs it is hilarious. He is different enough from the other killers and is strong. I do not regret putting in time to learn him.
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Thank you for your time to actually read the thread.=)
Don't pay attention on such comments, such comments give no explanations, no reasons to confirm what was said - "Knight sucks trash killer" and thats it. I don't find such "replies" irrelevant.
I think in november 22 and 23, I actually was trying to play him by tapping his power at loops (pretty much like Artist), I was using green addons on movement speed with Jailer... That didn't work tbh. xD
Whenever I was tapping his ability at loops, survivor getting enough time to move away, leaving you without a power on a next loop. (You can only reach with Jailer)
I don't really paying much attention on which guard I have if I'm chasing someone, to me it's most likely to actually start the haunt, with no matter which guard. If I got the survivor in a radius - all I need to do is sandwich them, I don't find much of a difference in which guard is better at this point.
I'm only paying attention to this:
- Carniflex is chasing for much longer - you have more time to "sandwich" them.
- With Jailer it will be easier to start the haunt.
- With Assasin you could possibly get a hit with him, if this survivor hesitate against the Knight's movement, or make a mistake.
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