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Boil over vs. Iron grasp
So recently boil over got nerfed, where it no longer adds towards wiggle progression. It was already hard enough to wiggle out, now it’s even more so, where hitting great skill checks does absolutely nothing. They make it so difficult for survivors. What really makes me upset is that okay, you nerf Boil over, but you keep Iron grasp the same?! On top of making it more difficult to get out! It’s unbelievable how I can be carried halfway across the map, if not more and only fill half my bar. I believe they made it totally unfair. Boil over was a slight balance that got taken away. Yeah you shouldn’t just click twice and bust out, but killers also shouldn’t be able to run a marathon with me on their backs either. I think this needs to be brought to attention.
Comments
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Who unironically runs Iron Grasp?
- Agitations is right there for people to use, and it's way better to use anyways.
- The only people who ACTUALLY use it (and arent people who dont have enough perks unlocked) are people using Mad Grit
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You. Are. Not. Meant. To. Escape. Wiggles.
Wiggling is to stop the Killer literally carrying you forever. that is it.
Boil Over is a terrible perk that encourages horrible gameplay from everyone, and is annoying when someone just sticks it in because they have some delusional ######### idea that it helps in isolation, and should be deleted from the game with a vengeance.
Iron Grasp lets the Killer carry you like eight metres more. I've done the maths. Agitation is more effective in isolation for more distance (faster movement) and more practical (faster movement), and it's still only 10m-ish.
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Alot of people forget that wiggling out is supposed to be a rare thing or happe because a teammate made a good play.
Think about it if wiggling out happen offent then thats even less hooks a killer is getting meaning the game has to last longer because the killer will need more time for these new chases or the chase time has to be cut down more so the extra chase don't end up been 2-3 hook games. Then you have the problem with if survivors aren't wiggling of as often as predicted the games are way to long or chases end way to fast and its a pretty much guaranteed win for the killer.
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I’m sorry but you sound so corny, if we weren’t meant to wiggle out why is there a bar? I highly doubt you have a degree in math. The killer can practically carry you forever, b e c a u s e you can’t wiggle out. There is barely any progression no matter what and iron grasp? Forget about it. Boil over was a great perk to counter that. Maybe fix it so the wiggle progression was a little slower. But they completely took it out, took out great skill checks to help with wiggle progression, and iron grasp remains the same. It’s impossible. I’ve been carried around the map like princess ######### Fiona on a daily. Not being able to get out.
Post edited by Rizzo on4 -
I agree, there needs to a balance. I’m not saying to bring it back the way it was but I’ve hit nothing but great skill checks, used unbreakable + flip flop + power struggle. And I still almost never get out. I mean if that’s not imbalanced idk what is.
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Everyone remember when Boil Over was buffed for the first time and it created infinites and unsolvable situations for the killer and 4h after its release killers all slugged survivors instead of picking them up, leading to a big outcry and one of the fastest hotfixes?
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I feel like Boil Over is only viable against Novice killers. It appears to hardly ever bother Intermediate/Expert Killers. It probably should be reworked to be an entirely different perk,…
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The wiggle bar is there so you don't end up in basement every single down and to prevent the killer from keeping you on their back forever.
Trust me you do not want wiggling out to be a common occurance. The harder you make to get hooks after the killer already won the chase the more you push people to never hook again and just play the game by slugging everyone for 4 minutes.
You're advocating for something very dangerous here.
Also
Straight from the wiki, it's only 7 meters of distance extra
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Kinda exaggerating there, hm? Makes me wonder if you play killer at all.
You’re also just wrong about Boil Over, by the by. It still grants wiggle progress when falling. It’s just a percentage based on the progress already made.
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First of all, as already said, wiggling and the bar exist so that the Killer has to pick a somewhat nearby Hook to hook the Survivor. They cannot carry the Survivor across the Map to a Scourge Hook or to the Basement, because wiggling exists.
Second, wiggling out is supposed to be a rare occurance, because hooking is one of the most basic mechanics of the game.
Third, regarding Boil Over - even when it had the effect to grant 25% of Wiggle Progress when the Killer drops from a great height, the Perk still was not good. If you want to have good build which increases your chance of escaping the Trial, you would still not run Boil Over back then. The only use for Boil Over was to burn a Map Offering with at least one Two Story-Building to make it impossible for the Killer to hook a Survivor. People who did that also did not do that to win the game, just to be annoying.
I am all for Boil Over becoming a good Perk. But not when it is a Perk to annoy other players.
Regarding Iron Grasp - it is fine. Agitation is better anyway. If anything, they should remove the Hooks upstairs in two story-Buildings which they added when Boil Over was at its strongest, since some of them are stronger than Basement-Hooks.
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Is that so? 🤔😜😂
https://youtu.be/Uu4TOQ0hmQ0
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Those perks can't be effective otherwise everyone would just run them and the killer wouldn't ever get hooks. They more for messing around and trying to make a thing work. The wiggle bar isn't for a survivor to get away it's so the Killer can't make every hook basement or carry halfway across the map to put you in the middle of there 3 gen.
Let me put it this way the wiggle bar isn't an incentive for survivors to try and get off its a detergent for killers to not have choice hooks ever down.
I think I wrote that right.
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The point of wiggling is to prevent a killer from putting you on the preferred hook, but rather the closer hook. Because if you don’t wiggle i’ll put you in basement and camp the stairs.
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so combining the two means the killer can carry an extra tile-and-a-half??
That's balanced... /s
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That perk combination is more of a meme build than anything else.
It will only work if you know where to go down to get anything from it.
It also requires another survivor close by so you can get use out of flip flop, which then carries over into the wiggle meter.
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Tbf, how many times do you see 1 of these perks in a match?
It rarely happens because they run more meta perks than anything else, and iron grasp or agitation are not particularly meta perks.
Yes i run them a lot nowadays, but that is because i just run a meme build to mess around
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Never thought I'd be told I need a maths degree to do basic multiplication
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Did I miss something? As far as I know Boil Over still adds bonus progression when the killer drops off a ledge. Also Boil Over is still a pretty decent perk. You will not wiggle out just for bringing Boil Over but you will definitely make it harder to hook you. Especially on some indoor maps the stronger wiggles make it more difficult to get through doorways. You are not supposed to wiggle out as someone else pointed out. The wiggle progression was added so that killers wouldn't carry you halfway across the map but instead hook you when they get the chance.
Iron Grasp is not a problem in any way. It's only purpose is to make it easier to hook survivors and that's exactly what it does.
If you could reliably wiggle out, that would be a huge problem. A killer can't chase you twice for a hook stage. How fast do you think the killer is in ending chases or even catching up to a survivor after they got stunned?
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Boil Over is good if you know how to use it and actually gets value in matches even against high level players (killers)!
You have to commit with it ie you need builds built around it. Tenacity/Flip Flop/Unbreakable/Break Down all good choices to support Boil Over!
If you play it right you can really waste alot of the killers time so I don't think it's a bad perk at all or worthless or useless you just need to build around it
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Oh, no, even when it works it's a terrible perk, because it encourages slugging, and that means everyone's frustrated. Unbreakable only works once.
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maybe you bring tanacity instad of boil over, of you want to come out sometimes. Its not imbalanced these are a good combo, but not great perks. Its meme build. If you just equip the perks and you comeout every time everyone would abuse it and the KIller will slug everyone to death. If you like to be on the ground for 4min oke, but if you get borred about this dont ask silly questions like: "Why can I not wiggle out every time"
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I dont know why Someone can be upset with Iron grasp at all. The only time IG is used is:
- Killer is new and have only bad perks. (even than there are mutch better choises than IG)
- Killer play a meme build with Mad Grit etc.
- Baisment Bubba/Trapper
The only situation than happens like ones per week is basment bubba. Meme builds with IG etc are so so rare I havend even seen one in two years. What I can tell from my experience is, that Iron Grasp is a bad perk overall. It does something, but it doesnt do it well.
Also with boil over you counter nothing. If you bring boil over and abuse it, so the Killer cant hook you, you are just a dick.
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Boil Over was recently shadow nerfed when the devs changed the wiggle mechanic. Like now survivors can’t really wiggle in a way that affects killer movement without Boil Over. With Boil Over, survivors wiggle about as much as they did prior to the ‘new’ wiggle mechanic.
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Wait, how is that a nerf to Boil Over, though? Boil Over's effect is even stronger now than before as long as you hit some great skill checks. And that really isn't too hard.
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No it isn’t stronger. With Boil Over now you wiggle as much as you did without Boil Over prior to the recent wiggle change. Regardless of hitting skill checks. Boil Over now basically equals the older form of wiggling, but like weaker since it isn’t ‘stacking’ with the older form of wiggling anymore
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Sounds like somebody wants hard slugging to intensify.
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Unless you're a console killer, in which case the new wiggle throws you around worse and sometimes you lose the ability to move forward for a second or two, and with Boil Over you often can't move forward at all, you're just stuck in place like the controls completely stopped responding.
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Great skill checks are 120% of the normal wiggle strength and this stacks with Boil Over. I believe I read somewhere that Boil Over works mulitplicative (correct me, if I'm wrong) so the actual wiggle strength of a great skill check should be 1.2 x 1.8 = 2.16 the normal wiggle strength. If it is additive that makes it 1.2 + 0.8 = 2.0 the normal wiggle strength.
Before the change you would achieve a maximum of 1.0 x 1.8 = 1.8 / 1.0 + 0.8 = 1.8 times normal wiggle strength. That means Boil Over did get stronger, when hitting great skill checks.
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Thats your opinion your entitled to it.
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Unless everyone has suddenly changed their mind to endorse 'lie on ground doing nothing for four minutes' as a desirable thing to encourage more of, it's undoubtedly the correct one.
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plenty of us experienced killers do. QoL, for one. To mitigate Boil Over, sabo squads and to insure getting to a scourge hook when running that build.
Actually I use IG as I mentioned above.
So that’s a console thing? Explains things.
Anyhoo, IMO IG is better than Agitation. For me at least. I like to chill when I play killer and so IG not only guarantees me hooks but bye bye Boil Over effects, sabo squads, etc.
I love it, and I’m not just saying that to be contrarian.
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Only thing changed with Boil Over was the drop penalty was changed from a flat rate to a percentage of wiggle progress. If you are upset with that, blame the survivors that burn RPD and ran to the library.
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Got nothing to do with what you said and that's a situation! You said it's weak and pretty much useless and I said that's your opinion.
Also your not gonna be slugged for 4 min if you play "smart" and run Tenacity/Flip Flop/Unbreakable. It's actually pretty strong your just down playing it because you think it's weak, opinion!
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Iron Grasp increases the time to wiggle by just under 2 seconds
Can it make a difference? Yes. But the large majority of the time its negligible
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It's terrible when it works because you can only get up once, and then you get slugged again. The Killer knows you're going to have UB if you're running flipflop+boil over+tenacity (or power struggle, unless you're doing all of those). So then you get knocked down again.
It's terrible, because the counterplay is to slug you. Which is nothing but annoying.
Terrible doesn't mean weak (it's a meme play that's sometimes okay if it works); it's terrible because slugging is bad. And on its own, it is weak. People just run it with no supporting perks a ton.
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Bodypillow build is unbalanced if you know what i mean. /s
Agitation, Mad Grit, Awakened Awareness & Iron Grasp
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ah, the backpack build, which runs no slowdown and can get absolutely no value if you don't try to body block
As much of a meme build as flipflop-power struggle approaches, which is countered by the simple expedient of not trying to be altruistic once you work out what's going on.
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Once again your opinion! Slugging is bad is "your" opinion! I do not share the same opinion as you do! You say it's "bad" I say it's "necessary" to win. People are different and I'm one of the different ones that do what I want and don't do what everyone else does or runs.
I've definitely escaped with Boil Over/Breakdown/Tenacity/Flip Flop so I don't know what your talking about. Consistent maybe not but a perk that encourages slugging doesn't make it terrible imo!
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