Another DH Thread.
Peanits wanted to see some more discussions about DH, so here we go.
A large part of the community is tired of playing around Dead Hard in every game in a majority of chases. You don't need me to explain why waiting behind a survivor sucks. We've done that for 6 years and we've seen the same hollow arguments for why DH should not be changed. In the end all defenses for DH come down to: It's hard to use, inconsistent, not as strong as SB and fun to use.
Something being difficult doesn't mean it should get a free pass when it is too strong. That is exactly why had to take a look at Nurse and it's exactly why DH needs another nerf. The potential of extending every chase by another health state is insane and especially punishing because it forces killers to overcommit. A killer that has hit you with DH, has already invested a considerable amount of time in getting into that position. Leaving you now means you can mend and heal up again and when they'll find you next time you'll have DH again. That is a huge waste of time because resetting goes much faster than getting 2 hits on the same person.
A perk should not be this inconsistent. Why would you defend a perk that works perfectly well one game and not at all in the next game? The same goes for those that "never hit a correct DH anyway". Why should it stay this way, then?
It's safe to say DH is a very strong perk. Yet we still hear the argument "SB is so much better." If that is the case, we'd see that reflected on the kill rates after DH is out of the way. If SB really is that strong, the devs will nerf it accordingly. The argument could also be read as: "Well, if DH is strong, then SB is overpowered." Just like Alch Ring + Blighted Crow Blight was overpowered and Nurse before the nerf still stronger.
Something being fun doesn't mean it's healthy. Eruption was fun to use for some people. Nurse was fun. Even infinite loops were fun for some people. Still all of that got looked at because it was only fun for one side and disgusting for the other. The same goes for DH. Why should it get a free pass?
If you need more reasons why DH should finally be nerfed out of the meta, just take a look through this forum. It shouldn't take you longer than 15 seconds to find at least 20 other explanations on that topic.
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I had a Game on RPD where i hv lose 3 Gens because of 1 Dead Hard because the Survivor was be able to get Another 3 strong Save paletts i wasnt even be able to bait it put because it was ona Palett
That busted Perk finally needs to go and i Hope we will See a nerf or rework in the Next mid Chapter
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you haven't been doin this for 6 years ,old dh was just press E for i frames and a good amount of distance,,you couldn't w8 it out,you couldn't really play around it ,,The perk while being the most picked exhaustion perk atm is at its best and healthiest it has ever been,,,there's some counterplay ,more in some cases and less with other cases but it's there,,,I hope they never touch the perk ever again,,,nerf it and it becomes useless buff it and it moves back to the old days,,
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I haven't had any problems with Dead Hard for a long time. I don't think 'fixing' it needs to be a priority right now.
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The supposed counter play has never changed. It has always been "wait it out". I never said it worked though. Nurse has been at her best and healthiest she's ever been up to the nerf as well. Did that make her any less hated, overpowered and problematic? The devs will need to get rid of this perk one way or another. It's overused and reflects on how effective that whole meta shake up really was. They got rid of the most used killer perks, so why should DH get a free pass? Their goal was to make it less prevalent. That didn't really happen. DH is still the most used perk in the game.
Also, please read that last section of my post again. You don't need to look far to see that there have been way more arguments on why DH needs another nerf, one that will kill it this time, or a rework. If you do have trouble finding one though:
This contains more than enough information and arguments for another 20+ discussions.
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That's good for you. I really mean that.
Many others have not been so lucky.
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I don't think nurse is problematic ,heck i would be happy if her only nerf was status effects like exposed not working with her blink strikes, Old dh was unfair / problematic because it just didn't matter if you waited it out,,,survivor would get to the window / pallet no matter what you did,,the current one doesn't work like that ,,pick rate isn't a reason to nerf for me,,,every killer runs pain res now that eruption is gettin destroyed,,does that mean pain res should be nerfed ? absolutely not., you can say it's frustrating having to wait it out and i agree ,,but still the perk is at its finest and should stay as it is imo
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DH should be changed to work like MoM(allows to work with mending) and add a new buff called exhausted for when the killer procs DH
Exhausted- For the remainder of the trial you no longer benefit from Exhaustion perks
Killers no longer feel the need that they have to bait DH out since it can only add one health state per survivor and removes the gap between m1 and m2 killers vs the perk. Seems like a fair nerf while keeping the perk in a strong state.
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I made a post too, just to get it out there even more, this perk is a joke.
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You could wait out or bait old DH. It was less effective because they got more distance then but you still could do it.
You're claiming the person who used to only eat their poop, but now only has it for 2 meals a day, is now "the most healthy they've ever been" basically.
"Nerf it and it becomes useless!" That's been said hundreds of thousands of times across all of gaming and guess what? It never comes true. The OP thing gets nerfed and it still gets used. The people who only used it because it was OP will stop using it though. But should you keep something OP just to keep people using it?
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they got more more distance and they reached a pallet or window you could do NOTHING about it as long as they were in range of those resources what are you talking about ? it was zero cost high reward ,at least now there's risk of not gettin it off and go down looking like a dummy..they aren't even close
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Here's an actually reasonable nerf:
Dead Hard makes you Hindered for the duration of your post-hit speed burst. So you get less distance for a successful DH than for a normal hit (maybe significantly less). Instead of being able to run like 10 meters after a DH speed burst, you run like 5 meters.
Perk is still viable and fun to use, just a lot weaker since it's not really extending the chase by much.
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The best part of this topic is when you try to find "something difficult to use" to compare with Dead Hard, and your example is... NURSE? Have you even spent more than 1 hour on Nurse? She's not hard. Yes, her power is unique and not straightforward to use, but the counterplay for survivor is also unique and not straightforward to learn, so it balances out, I started playing Nurse 6 months ago, and even while learning her blinks, I was still able to dominate every game. She even has an add-on to help learn her power.
Having to practice something for a few hours does not mean it's hard. You as killer need to learn your power. Guess what, that's what survivors have to do, but they have to do it for each killer, so 30x more the effort.
Dead Hard, is WAY harder than you give it credit for. You need to know how to loop to get use out of it, which is already a ~400 hour requirement. Then, you need to time it, but considering it has a 100ms delay, with BHVR's buggy servers and survivors not being allowed to see killer's ping, I wouldn't be surprised if you needed another 400 hours to get consistent use out of it. Even survivor streamers can't get it to work half of the time against predictable lunges.
I can tell that you have never played with Dead Hard, and you have not played with Nurse more than a ferw hours, most likely, you have not even discovered 10% of the depth that is in the chase game, but because killer is so ridiculously easy now, you won a lot of underserved games and now you're getting matched against survivors way above your real skill level. Dead Hard is easy to bait out and almost every time if you lose to DH it means that you got outplayed. If you don't believe it, try to play as a survivor yourself with Dead Hard for a week, and you'll see. With all the tutorials nowadays even beginner killers know how to bait it out.
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I personally agree that Nurse isn't as hard as some people claim. For me it took probably 10 games to get feeling for her power and after that I was mostly fine. Others have more trouble with that though.
Something being easy or difficult is always subjective. For some people Nurse is incredibly hard, for some she is easy. And seeing how there are quite a few people that can DH on reaction and will always get a 3rd health state against a killer, that uses their power this definitely applies to DH as well.
You can guess things about me all you want. I don't care. The fact that DH deserves to be gutted or completely reworked still remains.
I made another post not too long ago. I suggest you read through it. There are many more arguments about DH in that thread. No amount of "But DH is fine..." will change that it is an objectively problematic perk.
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"There are quite a few people that can DH on reaction"
Care to name any?
FYI, the Youtube videos of popular survivors that you might be tempted to quote, are clips cherry-picked from hundreds of games. If you would watch all their matches, you would see a very different story.
I watch 2-3 good survivor streamers on Twitch. I see every single of them fail DH on predictable hits, regularly. In fact, depending on ping, I'd say they most of the time fail it.
Reacting to DH on basic hit or even on a lunge is humanly impossible if the killer has 100+ ping.
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