Genuine Dead-Hard Rework Idea
Okay, my idea is to bring back the old DH where you'd get distance, BUT, a killer would be able to hit you as you're dashing.
I remember that was always the thing that peeved me off the most. A survivor could just turn to me a dash through my swing without being hurt.
Of course a survivor would still get exhausted.
Also, the distance would only be about 2/3 of what old dead hard actually gave you, meaning that a survivor would only be able to use it to only get a slight bit of distance in chase. This would make it so even if a survivor used DH right in front of a killer, they could lunge and down them. No more avoiding lunges.
To summarize:
- Survivors can use DH to dash 2/3 of what old DH would give them.
- Survivors would still get exhausted
- A killer can still down a survivor mid-dash, forcing them to use it to gain a little distance in chase and not some third health state or crazy juke.
- No more avoiding lunges since the distance of the dash is decreased.
- You CANNOT DH over bear-traps or hag-traps, Pyramid Head's trail, etc. without them giving you their respective effects and such.
NEW Perk Desc.
Activate-able Perk.
You can take a beating.
When Injured, tap into your adrenaline bank and dash forward quickly to give yourself some time.
- Press the Active Ability button while running to dash forward.
Dead Hard causes the Exhausted Status Effect for 60/50/40 seconds
Dead Hard cannot be used when Exhausted.
I'll post this is suggestions after people give their two-cents. Things may change obv. because of suggestions.
Comments
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You know most people didn't use old DH to dodge lunges right?
That wasn't the good part of the perk, that was more of nice bonus.
What most people realized is that you could use DH to get distance to a pallet or window for free. You are bringing that back. I don't know how that would go.
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We must have had different experiences playing against old DH. Good players used it for distance, but let's be honest half the survivor player base isn't fairly good. Most survivors I went against basically used old DH just like they're using new DH.
I also feel like the idea of bringing back the distance aspect makes it more like the other exhaustion perks, which all give you distance under specific circumstances. Sadly DH is the only one that simply requires a button to be pressed to work.
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I think people would catch on pretty quick after a change like that tho.
Similar to how people slowly learned how to use the new DH better.
In the end, there is no counter to free distance for most killers. Especially M1 killers, which would be the ones getting hit hard by that change, while top tier killer would be buffed by the lost of invulnerability.
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True, but that goes for all exhaustion perks. The sad difference with DH is that survivors have full control of when they use it with the press of a button so long as they're injured.
I wish I could think of a way to remove that button pressing component.
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DH for distance does not need to make a return. It was braindead, unfair and incredibly busted. They should rework DH to do something else entirely.
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We don't need dead hard to become more like old dead hard. We need it nerfed into the ground like the eruption nerf. Or we need to triple nerfed like what they did with Nurse. We should stop thinking of useful reworks, and instead think of ways the perk can get nerfed into the ground.
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Alright. You do it. Think of a way, and tell us.
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Yes, pls nerf it like nurse so it still the most broken thing in the game after it was released. Nurse being 7 years ago.
Pls be my guest.
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This
Before the DH change was announced, I was very close to just quitting DBD completely because of DH for Distance. I would take 1,000,000 Nu DHs per match over bringing back DH for Distance
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Don't let it get to you.
On this forum, any DH idea that is not delete DH just gets you hated and attacked for a bunch os toxicity for no reason.
The DH PTSD is strong here
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1) Dead Hard no longer works on M2 powers.
2) Dead Hard deactivates for the rest of the game if it is successfully used.
3) Dead Hard no longer gives a speed burst if the survivor is hit during the endurance window.
There you go. Triple nerf Dead Hard with all three of those things, so we can finally bury the perk.
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Yep, you definitely don't sound angry and obsessed xD
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Thankyou. Sorry I didn't mean to be rude. I just want to promote actual constructive comments instead of one that say "just nerf it" or "delete it"
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I won't, I just want to promote constructive comments over ones that don't put anything on the table.
No ill will here
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This just brings back "dead hard for distance" which is where it was primarily a problem. The new one is a problem because it creates a dumb gameplay loop where killers just can't lunge anymore. The old one had that problem too, but something bout it made it weaker, maybe it was that if you saw the dash animation and then lunged, you could still hit them, i honestly don't know.
The problem with dead hard when compared to other exhaustion perks is that it has literally 0 downside in normal circumstances (the one downside it has, creates unhealthy gameplay to exploit it, which i'll explain later.) Lets look at all the exhaustion perks and their downsides:
- Adrenaline - Only activates once in the trial and at the very end, mostly it is used for the heal rather than the actual sprint burst. Because it only activates once though, and it causes exhaustion after, i generally think isn't as problematic as dead hard.
- Background player (the new one coming) - This one is mainly going to be used for flashlight saves, But, if you aren't in position, or on the other side of the map and the killer picks up a survivor, good job you just got exhaustion for no reason, meaning you have to really plan for how to use it.
- Balanced Landing - This one has very few places on most maps in can be used. The majority of maps have maybe 2 spots you can reliably use it, and the rest are due to map mechanics. Making this one highly situational. It is very powerful when it works, and i'd argue more powerful that most, but very situational.
- Head on - This one requires you to enter a locker, meaning you can't use it actively in a chase unless you have a perk setup like quick and quiet or others to trick the killer. Making it require a whole setup to use like this, or that you generally can't use it actively in a chase. This is more of a setup/planning perk.
- Lithe - I'd argue this is the exhaustion perk that is the most consistent. It is the hardest one to "accidentally" use, but is also one of the weakest. You can't NOT activate it and still fast vault, meaning you can't use it to loop the killer around a strong structure, then go through a window, then start it all over again. It can't be used in a chase "efficiently" then, because you HAVE to use it when you fast vault. This makes the efficiency aspect of this one lower then mot of the others.
- Overcome - Before this came out, this is actually what i think they should have reworked dead hard into. The downside to this one of course is that you must be healthy to use it. If you are injured and get hit, it does nothing. It also is hard countered by insta-downs/exposed status effects.
- Smash hit - This one requires a pallet stun to get use out of, which is often easier said than done. What this does is turn unsafe pallets into safe ones. However, if used at a safe pallet, it doesn't really do much, because a safe pallet stun on a killer is already a chase ender, so this just ends the chase harder.
- Sprint Burst - This is the one that everyone says people would switch to if they deleted dead hard, which i think is fine, this one has plenty of downsides. You can't run around while using it so you must walk. It can be 99'd, but then, you can't do ANYTHING, not even drop from a high place, or you aren't 99ing it anymore. Making it difficult to use in those situations. Additionally, people think it adds a ton of distance to the "hold w/leave early" meta. But it doesn't. Imagine an infinite straight line map, where the survivor started running from the killer at 30 meters and the killer had to catch up to hit them. Without sprint burst, this would take 40 seconds for the killer to hit the survivor. With sprint burst, it takes 47 seconds (rounded up) this is actually extremely minimal and is the best case scenario. Normally a killer gains 0.6 meters of distance per second on a survivor running. Sprint burst turns that into the killer losing 1.4 meters of distance for 3 seconds. This amounts to an extra 4.2 meters of distance. Lunge distance is 6 meters. This adds basically a joke amount of distance for holding w. The point of this perk is to get you out of a dead zone or off a gen that is in a bad area to a safer area, not to hold w.
Then we come to dead hard. What is the downside of dead hard? There is none, the downside is that you have to be injured to use it, but that is going to happen over the natural course of a chase. What about insta downs? Well with instadowns, yeah it actually gets countered like overcome, but the difference is it only gets countered ONCE and then actually counters the instadown! Because lets say the survivor gets instadowned and hooked. Then they just stay injured, and even if the attack instadowns, they can still dead hard it while injured and get a second health state. So after that, they actually counter the instadowning.
The only REAL downside of dead hard, is that it can't be used while you have deep wounds. This means a handful of non-meta killers do ok against it, like deathslinger and legion, but most importantly, it means that the counter to dead hard, is the one of the most unhealthy things in the game. Hard tunneling. If i chase someone, and they have dead hard, what makes more sense. Do i let them get unhooked, run off and heal themselves, and then the next time i chase them, i have to deal with an extra health state potentially, giving them 3 health states? Or, what if instead, i INTENTIONALLY hit them right as they get unhooked, putting them into deep wounds, so now they can't use dead hard. Yeah, they get the speed boost from the hit, and the basic borrowed time, but that will only give them the distance they would get if we had a normal chase. So now i only have to chase and hit them a single time to get a hook.
Lastly, the other problem with dead hard, is when it becomes effective in a chase. Looking again at all the other perks, when do they become effective in a chase?
- Adrenaline - Not really plannable or reliable in chase outside of a SWF play, but even then it only works once a game.
- Background player (the new one coming) - This actually takes affect AFTER you as a killer DOWNED a survivor and go to hook them, and it only activates on another player, and on top of that the best thing for it is for flashlight saving, which has plenty of counters of its own.
- Balanced Landing - This one actually can activate anytime during a chase, almost as well as dead hard. The difference is that the killer can usually obviously see when the survivor has this, and maybe make a play around it. Additionally it being so situational makes it less annoying to deal with.
- Head on - Can't be used in a chase outside of tricks and builds around it.
- Lithe - This generally happens near the early part of a chase, because you activate it as soon as you fast vault. The only way to "save" it for later parts of the chase, is to not use windows, and instead drop pallets. But doing that, means you are wasting precious resources on the map.
- Overcome - This happens right after you get a hit. Giving you as a killer a chance to make a choice. At this point, you landed a hit, which means you already got some pressure, but they zoom off. Maybe you can leave them, but now they have to go heal, giving you pressure.
- Smash hit - This one happens after a pallet stun, so it can happen anytime. But, once you know the survivor has it, you know they are looking for pallet plays and can bait and play around it much better. The interaction also happens around pallets, so even if it ends the chase, you still get a pallet out of it, meaning that you got SOMETHING out of it, no matter where it activates.
- Sprint Burst - Unless it is 99'd, which means the survivor isn't doing generators or anything meaningful (free pressure) it is used right at the start of the chase. Meaning you can choose to leave and chase someone else, or as mentioned, since it only adds 7 seconds to the "hold w" it isn't as bad as people think.
- Dead hard - Happens right at the end of the chase, right as you think it is about to end, and then BAM suddenly the chase is extended at minimum another 20 seconds if they just "hold w" but likely longer as they will get to a pallet or something,
Without completely reworking the perk to do something else, the way to "fix" dead hard, is to give it a real counter. I'd propose making it more skill based, basically, i would rework dead hard to do this:
This would make it so, if the killer can down you quickly after hitting you, then you don't get to use dead hard. But if the killer takes too long, you can get yourself another health state. Additionally if you get healed or downed, it becomes inactive, requiring that you need to charge it up again. It also actually DISCOURAGES tunneling, because if you come back to the hook to tunnel the survivor they are still injured and will likely have dead hard again by the time you can hit them. Meaning it is better to wait for them to be healed, and then skillfully end the chase early, rather than try to tunnel them out.
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Constructive comments are comments that involve the perk getting nerfed into the ground. It's so tiring when eruption gets nerfed into the ground, and Nurse gets triple nerfed, but people want dead hard to get a tiny nudge in power.
You mean just like how some people were just complaining about eruption over and over and over and over and over, but that was ok for some whatever reason? And just like how people complained about eruption so much that it got massively nerfed?
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I mean, i am judging you right now, not what happened ago.
Also, most of those eruption nerf suggestions were way nicer than what bhvr eventually did. I know, because i also suggested changes and was shocked by how overkill they were, that i made also a post to revert the regression nerf at least, that it was overkill.
Eruption will probably be good on mobility killers that want to also kick gens. Definitely not an universally good perk like before, but this new version could be good on some killers. Probably a B tier perk tho now, if i had to predict
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Make it so when you DH successfully you are permanently exhaust for the remainder of the trial.
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Would hooks or blood rush get rid of the exhaustion?
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The fact people think a nerf to dead hard is coming is laughable too many people run/like this perk and it has plenty of counter play for the devs to just nerf it cause a few of you can’t wait it out it’s not gonna get touched and I put money on it now they wouldn’t
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Nothing removes it. If you use DH with Adren then you can only gain a health state If you were successful in using DH.
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Old Dead Hard back but only 1 time use in trial.
Problem solved.
It should have been 1 time use from the beginning and there would be much less complaining.
The most anoying part was that they could use it multiple times again.
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I think the perk is pretty unsalvageable, honestly; Dead by Daylight is such an all-or-nothing game that an Exhaustion perk you can activate by pressing E will always be too good and/or frustrating. And there are very few changes you can make to it that would actually remove the frustrating aspect of it for Killers. It needs to do something completely different from what it did.
Here's how I'd rework it:
You can take a beating.
After being unhooked, recovering from the Dying state, or being healed, Dead Hard activates for 4 seconds:
If you start to run while Dead Hard is active, break into a sprint at 150% of your normal movement speed for 5 seconds and Dead Hard deactivates.
Dead Hard causes the Exhausted status effect for 40 seconds.
Dead Hard cannot be used while exhausted.
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It doesn't matter how nice some of the suggestions were. People complained, and eruption got nerfed into the ground. And the new version is garbage, and isn't worth the time it takes to walk to a generator, kick the generator, then walk back to where you need to be.
Then fine, nerf dead hard into the ground, then add some fake good thing to it, like "other survivors get +10% healing speed for the next 30 seconds". Then people can say "oh wow dead hard is still good for some survivors because it helps their teammates with their healing speeds".
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Make it unique use in game (like decisive strike). Perfect nerf.
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I actually really love this
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