Console: My take on survivors vs killers
I see alot of people complain the killer is weaker then survivors, I play both survivor and killer, and playing both i see the edge a killer has over the survivor, the killer has one real goal stopping and killing survivors and he has powers and perks with no real limitation with them to achieve the goal.
Survivors have numerous goals, do gens, dodge killer, help other survivors and escape and they have perks and equipment that are limited in some way to complete that goal. Comparing there perks, powers and addons the killer is more versatile then a survivor. They are faster by a longshot even the slowest killer can catch a survivor. So how is the killer weaker, i have more ruthless killers awards then successful escapes by a longshot.
I hear decisive strike is to overpowered, how? Its a one time use that you can miss, the most it can delay you is 16 seconds. Yet some very powerful killer perks like bbq and chilli have no cooldown at all. What about killer addons that stay until the game ends while survivor addons last until the item is used up. Offerings that allow a killer to kill a survivor that was hooked once(Should be twice) or increase the hook count by three when there everywhere already.
Heres something that always bothered me, why is it a survivor can jump off something high or even a foot high and be stunned for like a second but a killer jumps off the same height carrying a survivor but there are no ramifications for that? Nothing added to the wiggle meter, no stun for a second, just i jumped off prenn asylum carrying a full grown adult and im fine. Killers are overpowered, thats my take on survivors vs killers.
One thing i will say they should allow is a killer to grab a survivor that is delaying the end of the game by butt dancing at the gates exit kinda like being pulled off a gen.
Comments
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"Killers are overpowered, thats my take on survivors vs killers"
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@SirMurphAlot I have played just survivor since I got the game. Juts recently started playing killer and I honestly believe this is the harder role. I am not that experienced with killer admittedly but I learnt survivor so much faster.
I do not use Decisive strike much as I prefer a stealthy type build but BBQ and Chilli can be countered by lockers now. As soon as someone goes down just head for the nearest locker and it is pretty useless.
Not saying you are wrong just saying my experience!
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BBQ & chilli has no cooldown......yeah because I'm going to be hooking someone every 5 seconds!
And even if you argue I down 2 at once, the fact that I spend time hooking the second means I wasnt taking advantage of the first BBQ aura reading.7 -
Yeah and your point crusader, are you saying it doesnt need a cooldown or what?
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@Dead_by_David yeah going from survivor to killer is hard at first but once you get the basics downs, youll kill atleast 3 survivors a game
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If you're not playing at rank one as both killer and survivor, your opinion is quite invalid. Rank one shows true skill, and if you play there you will realise it is much more difficult to be successful as a Killer, than as a survivor. It is very frustrating. Maybe watch something that actually shows what a killer has to deal with. You can say what you want, it's your opinion, but the only ones that matter are the actual people playing killer, and we are frustrated. If it's so easy, then why don't you become a killer main and add another player to our small roster why don't ya?1
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Survivors have numerous goals, do gens, dodge killer, help other survivors and escape and they have perks and equipment that are limited in some way to complete that goal.
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Survivor vs killer is only harder for survivors as a starter level as being chased is harder when you don't know where to run than chasing somebody who doesn't know where to run.
But after both become experienced the survivor has more tools to win than a killer has an ability to stop them from winning. This makes the killer dependent on the survivor screwing up.2.
At a competitive level, killers are inferior. Marth88 has over 300 documented games in which the killer has about a 10% win-rate+Neutral pip.
That is game-balance at it least-finest.They are faster by a longshot even the slowest killer can catch a survivor.
Imagine my shock.
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So how is the killer weaker, i have more ruthless killers awards then successful escapes by a longshot.
At a competitive level, no you don't.
The only reason you do or might at rank 1 even is because Rank in DBD isn't really a rank, it;s just a seasonal grind and doesn't represent that you are the best x% in the playerbase.
If you would have to play against top tier survivors then you'd suffer so much your eyes'd pop out, and there was nothing that you could do.
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the most it can delay you is 16 seconds.
It takes about 133.33 seconds to do all gens if only 3 are rushing the generators. Add a 30 seconds for running inbetween and your decisive (with your 16 seconds example, which is a low estimation) would already buy you 10% extra more time in the game. Multiply this by 4 and the survivors have 40% extra time to finish the match.
Now realistically, you also waste time by picking up the survivor + being stunned for 4 seconds. 1 survivor will stun you at the start and 3 will stun you after 35% which adds another 5/6 seconds for each.
Add that together and your decisive strike (1 perk alone!) has already bought you about 70% extra more time than you'd need! And this is if the survivor dies after 16 seconds in a chase, which must have been a pretty bad chase!
Killers don't have a perk that slows the game down by 70%.
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Offerings that allow a killer to kill a survivor that was hooked once(Should be twice) or increase the hook count by three when there everywhere already.
And the Marth88 experiment showed that Mori's weren't even enough.
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Yet some very powerful killer perks like bbq and chilli have no cooldown at all.
No cooldown? Is it always active? The cooldown is variable meaning up until you hook a survivor and it goes on cooldown after about 5 seconds again.
Against really good survivors you might not even be able to get a hook off, meaning you would've had an infinite cooldown. That seems like a pretty long cooldown to me.
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Killers are overpowered, thats my take on survivors vs killers.
In summary, this is not a profound opinion; this is the learning gap vs the mastering gap shown in the graph above:
In the beginning: Killers win most of the time, survivors die a lot
At the end: Killers get bullied, survivors can go for 20+ survival streaks.And that isn't even taking into account that Rank 1 is also home for a bulk of terrible, but frequently playing survivors, blurring the competitive numbers.
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@SirMurphAlot said:
Offerings that allow a killer to kill a survivor that was hooked once(Should be twice)
Should be twice? Then what even be the point of a mori if they would die on the next hook anyway? Count your blessing, buddy. Once upon a time, a killer could use a mori without ever even needing to hook a survivor.
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The original post isn't taking into account that those parts of it that are valid only mean that the killer is stronger than an individual survivor. You're up against 4 of these things. Sure, I can benchpress 100 pounds with ease. Doesn't mean that 100 pounds is so ignorable that I can benchpress 400 pounds easily.
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@MysticalMagic92 I play both killer and survivor and have done it at rank 1, so yeah i kinda know what im talking about.
@AlwaysInAGoodShape 1: so 40% escape rate, if it was in favor of survivors it would be higher. 2: Killers are not inferior to survivors at competative level, no idea who that is im going off my play style and getting atleast 3 kills is not hard. 3: Yeah and your shocked point is. 4: yeah i do if you mean tournament then yeah your right i dont play tournaments but as for rank i do. 5: If the problem with killers is your letting them bait you into chases they are hoping for then you need to wise up. They have ruin, thanathobia, overcharge, they have addons that can slow it down. 6: Offerings are more powerful for killer then survivor being able to kill a survivor after 1 hook beats out giving 2 more chests or a boost to luck.7: yeah its always active you hook a survivor it activates, hook another right after it activates again. 8: the graph shows a 10% increase from rank 20 to 1 how does that prove killers have it harder its still not 50%.
I gave my reasons from how i play to what ive witnissed playing both sides, i havent struggled with being killer as much as i have with survivor.0 -
@SirMurphAlot said:
Comparing there perks, powers and addons the killer is more versatile then a survivor.????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Wat.
Also wow the bias. Let's compare the strongest Killer Offering (that completely changes the game dynamics) to a couple of the weakest survivor offerings.
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@TheMidnightRidr yeah it should be two hooks they can still be pulled off, its not hard hooking survivors.
@Dehitay put a killer against two survivors or even three and you are gonna have a hard match for survivors.
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@GodDamn_Angela what offerings would you pick
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Because the highest offering a survivor has a luck boost, 2 chests, not losing your item and addons
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@SirMurphAlot That depends on the various skill levels of everyone though, I have seen survivors run circles around the best killers at different ranks, high and low
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The escape rate per rank shows why survivor blows at low ranks.
I hate rank reset. You need to grind to get out of the green ranks asap.0 -
@Dead_by_David Im not saying its super easy for the killer im just saying that the killer is not as weak as people complain about. I gave my reasons and disagreed with others on theres, but from my experience the whole team gets wiped more often then they escape.
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@The_Crusader i agree rank reset is annoying
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@SirMurphAlot That is fair enough however I believe that the killer should be OP to a certain extent. I like to be chased by this unstopable force of nature because it makes it more tense and scary when I am hiding but this is just how I play and everyone enjoys the game differently
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@SirMurphAlot said:
@TheMidnightRidr yeah it should be two hooks they can still be pulled off, its not hard hooking survivors.My point is that if you are going to mori a survivor when they have been hooked twice, you're wasting your time and potential points. They would only need to be hooked one more time for them to die, so why use a mori? It would completely negate the usefulness a mori brings to the game.
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@TheMidnightRidr wouldnt you get more points my way, if you mori them after the 1st hook you lose out on the next hook, plus it makes sense with a killer getting angry and killing the survivor themselves instead of wanting to hook them.
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So if "Survivors have numerous goals, do gens, dodge killer, help other survivors and escape" how do you get only one killer objective from this? Equipment that's limited? You don't need any equipment to do the objective or remove any type of status effect. Survivors don't even lose items or addons if they escape plus they can bring items from trials, half the killers rely on addons. cough survivormain cough.
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@SirMurphAlot said:
@TheMidnightRidr wouldnt you get more points my way, if you mori them after the 1st hook you lose out on the next hook, plus it makes sense with a killer getting angry and killing the survivor themselves instead of wanting to hook them.It just doesn't make any sense to mori a survivor if they were dead anyway. We're entitled to have our own opinions, I guess, and mine just conflicts with yours. Good day, friend.
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@HellDescent the killer only has one goal kill the survivors, what other goal does he have? The equipment is limited if you use it up its gone, sure you can escape with it but i dont know about you but unless im bringing my purple offering with me its gone , cant heal yourself without either self care or a med kit, cough cough didnt get the point of my first post, and your point on killers relying on add on
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@SirMurphAlot said:
@GodDamn_Angela what offerings would you pickI wouldn't.
You won't be using "top-end" offerings every game. And other than that and BP offerings you are basically wasting your Offering whenever you use one as a Killer because they are 1:1 comparable to Survivors'. Which there are 4 of, mind you.
Other Mori Offerings are trash btw.
I would still like to know how a Killer is more versatile than a Survivor though.
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When someone says words like "competitive" or whole sentences as "playing killer is too hard" in these forums, I always cringe.
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@SirMurphAlot said:
@HellDescent the killer only has one goal kill the survivors, what other goal does he have? The equipment is limited if you use it up its gone, sure you can escape with it but i dont know about you but unless im bringing my purple offering with me its gone , cant heal yourself without either self care or a med kit, cough cough didnt get the point of my first post, and your point on killers relying on add onSo survivors just run to the killers? There are no chases, hooks, defending generators, totems and exit gates, map pressure? You can leave your item at 99% and not it will only stay with you but you'll get all the charges back on addons and items. Self care is not an item it's up to you if you want to bring it and you can be healed regardless by any of your teammates even faster.
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@GodDamn_Angela then dont complain about the offerings i referenced, no they arent you can still kill a survivor. Ok heres how the killer is more versatile 1: he is faster 2: has perks that can negate a survivors best defenses or offences 3: there powers can easily change the game if used right 4: add ons increase the effectiveness of there powers case and point michael myers spoons that allow him to see survivor auras while stalking. 5: Falls dont slow them down. Just to name a few
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I agree.
I mean, stealth is the best way for survivors to remain undetected, and it's not like that was majorly buffed + a perk was released to counter all meta killer aura reading perks.
Oh wait.
You seem to be arguing various points without any concrete understanding of the meta, various game nuances, items, perks, etc.
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@Vancold i cringe as well when people go on forums and see something they apparently dont like then comment on how they dont like it, instead of doing what a rational person would do and read something that interest them.
@HellDescent if your having an issue as killer, you should remember this dont defend just kill the survivors, you said you could remove any type of status effect without equipment, mangled and the blood one need to be healed, cant heal them without either self care, med kit or another survivor if they arent all dead. Yes you could do 99% but seeing as they arent very hard to get, ill use them fully to try and finish thing faster
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######### I wish I had an LOL button to click on
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@Raccoon i know how i play and thats all, i see how much easier it is to be killer then survivor, you dont agree thats fine but your not convincing me, i gave my points and most of you disagreed, some of you gave your reasons and i respect that, others didnt offer anything besides a slight jab that i was wrong your opinions dont mean much at all.
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@Bravo0413 theres always the awesome button
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Exactly this /\... that statement he made shows the inexperience in this OP... almost every perk that survivors have can counter every perk the killer and some survivor perks have no counter... and then versatility? Killers? It depends on the killer for which build to work.... survivors are all reskins so you can whatever build you want on any survivorGodDamn_Angela said:@SirMurphAlot said:
Comparing there perks, powers and addons the killer is more versatile then a survivor.????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Wat.
Also wow the bias. Let's compare the strongest Killer Offering (that completely changes the game dynamics) to a couple of the weakest survivor offerings.
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SirMurphAlot said:
@Raccoon i know how i play and thats all, i see how much easier it is to be killer then survivor, you dont agree thats fine but your not convincing me, i gave my points and most of you disagreed, some of you gave your reasons and i respect that, others didnt offer anything besides a slight jab that i was wrong your opinions dont mean much at all.
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@Bravo0413 oh you can counter thanathobia, make your choice, enduring, lightborn, iron grasp, agitation, nurses calling, should i go on, decisive strike can be dealt with by spinning, unnerving presence, dropping and swinging your weapon,
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@Raccoon i didnt mean to upset you so much, that memes picture say it all, your hurt by my words just look at that face
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SirMurphAlot said:
@Raccoon i didnt mean to upset you so much, that memes picture say it all, your hurt by my words just look at that face
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@Raccoon well its kind of hard when all you offer are some memes and what i said to you, kind of feels like you cant contribute to the discussion anymore because you have nothing valid to add to it, so you try to seem funny like that one kid that mouths off and gets put in his place
<Insert meme here>
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I cannot actively participate in a genuine discussion in your topic as we're apparently not even playing the same game
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@SirMurphAlot said:
I see alot of people complain the killer is weaker then survivors, I play both survivor and killer, and playing both i see the edge a killer has over the survivor, the killer has one real goal stopping and killing survivors and he has powers and perks with no real limitation with them to achieve the goal.
Survivors have numerous goals, do gens, dodge killer, help other survivors and escape and they have perks and equipment that are limited in some way to complete that goal. Comparing there perks, powers and addons the killer is more versatile then a survivor. They are faster by a longshot even the slowest killer can catch a survivor. So how is the killer weaker, i have more ruthless killers awards then successful escapes by a longshot.
I hear decisive strike is to overpowered, how? Its a one time use that you can miss, the most it can delay you is 16 seconds. Yet some very powerful killer perks like bbq and chilli have no cooldown at all. What about killer addons that stay until the game ends while survivor addons last until the item is used up. Offerings that allow a killer to kill a survivor that was hooked once(Should be twice) or increase the hook count by three when there everywhere already.
Heres something that always bothered me, why is it a survivor can jump off something high or even a foot high and be stunned for like a second but a killer jumps off the same height carrying a survivor but there are no ramifications for that? Nothing added to the wiggle meter, no stun for a second, just i jumped off prenn asylum carrying a full grown adult and im fine. Killers are overpowered, thats my take on survivors vs killers.
One thing i will say they should allow is a killer to grab a survivor that is delaying the end of the game by butt dancing at the gates exit kinda like being pulled off a gen.Let me see if I can break down your points in a respectful manner. For this reason I will assume every paragraph is a point you have made. And please note that I've played survivor and killer. But I am a majority killer when I am not in a SWF match with my friends.
- Survivors are weaker than killers on a one vs one. But this is a 1 vs 4. Killers may have powers but to say they have no limitations is straight up wrong. Especially on consoles where the frames are a wee bit worse. And poor Nurse is bent over because of it (not to say there aren't good Nurses out there on consoles). Every killer has a limit and a counterplay regarding their power. Trapper's traps can be disarmed and broken, Hillbilly can be juked still and slamming into walls can be a hazard, Hag is slow and her traps can be taken out with flashlights or while she is holding someone. I could go on but I would rather you read on instead of disregarding this post.
- Would you rather to not have any other objectives to do as a survivor? A killer has the ever charming job of having to chase a survivor around loops and other stuff in the time it takes for three generators to pop. As the name implies the killer's job is to kill. So of course they have to (eventually) catch the survivors. But the major problems with the more better Killer perks is that perks like Ruin is a HEX perk, and there were one a many time that I have spawned right next to it, destroying it in seconds.
- Okay, maybe you've had the benefit of having survivors who could hit a DS but not a great skill check, I cannot tell you how many games I have lost or nearly lost a game cause my poor shoulder has been stabbed at a bad time. Barbeque and Chilli requires you to actually hook a survivor and half the time you won't see/be able to reach anyone in time. Plus the perk is mostly used for the blood points anyways. The thing about killer add-ons is that you lose them after a match, survivor items and add-ons are not lost if you are smart and don't use the entire thing up in one go. The moris are there for simple pleasure after a hard day. And tell me, how many times have you actually seen a oak offering? Which survivors also have.
- I'd like to assume killers don't care or are empowered by the Entity when they fall off a large height. I'll give you that maybe the Hag or the new killer probably should have some kind of penalty for falling, at least with a survivor on hand. Killers are supposed to be overpowered, that's the point. Do you want them to be ran around even more then half of even the best killers.
No one is against dragging survivors out of the gate if they are butt dancing. That's annoying.
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@Raccoon whered all the bluster go, the talking down to people that disagree with you, cmon throw a meme out there you know you want to
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@Shad03 thanks for actually trying to discuss and give reasons as to why you think im wrong
1. Yeah 4v1 you have a shot, ill agree but if a survivor isnt helping what are your chances with a 3v1, i play on console so i know, yeah you can disarm a trap but what about the addons that can counter that plus traps come back, any addon a killer uses can help deter those counters
2. No you need the objectives im not saying that, my point with pointing out the objective is to show that the killer only really has to worry about one objective while survivors have many implying thats alot harder, a killer has contol in those chases, he can choose to not be baited by them and go for the others.
3. Ive had a few games where they all ran DS i got hit by all but it wasnt that big of a deal because i usually place my body in a way that forces them in the worst direction, some killers addons are to oped especially when you compare them to survivors addons, ive seen to many games where they run the pink mori and your team gets wiped before the 2nd gen is complete i have even done it.
4. Id agree if it wasnt so impossible to get out of the carry 9 out of 10 times thats how often i fail getting out add in iron grasp or agitation 10/100 -
I'll lay it out for you one more time:
Rank in Dead By Daylight is not a Rank
A rank means that you are a certain rank and you are the only one that has this rank. Often, multiple players share 1 name within a certain range of ranks:
For example in League of legends, many people with a similar rank will be called "Gold" or "Platinum", but only you can be in that 1 rank, which is what you see at a challanger tier: There is only a Rank 1 challanger, not 2.
You can compete for that rank, but it's impossible to have 2 people with the same rank.
Dead by Daylight is different. What is called "Rank" has nothing to do with a real ranking system, but has more to do with grinding. If a bad player plays enough and knows the basic mechanism behind the pipping system, they can make it to rank 1.
In fact, all killers and survivors alive could be rank 1 simultaneously.
This shows us that we're not dealing with a real ranking system."Rank" 1 in DBD is where both the worst 50% and the best 0.1% reside, because again, rank in DBD is not a rank.
Statistics inflation.
This is why the survival rate is 40% at Rank 1. This is due to the a bunch of grindy 12 year olds playing the game a lot and dying.
When you actually look at good players versus good players (thus what a real ranking system would produce), then you see the survivor winrate skyrocketing. This is why people can pull off 25+ survival winstreaks.
Learning Curve:
When both players don't know how to play, it will be easier for a killer to catch a survivor than it is for a survivor to navigate through an unknown map, which is why when players are bad you see the folllowing:
30% survivor rate for survivors.But when both players are good, you'll see the outcome of the Marth88 experiment:
5% winrate for killers.A game in which players who don't know how to play produce a 30% winrate for survivors, where-as good versus good players produce a 5% winrate for killers, how can you possibly consider this game being killer favoured?
In Conclusion
Your post is nothing more than you reminding us that you are among the lower tier players, which is where bad killers have it easier against bad survivors, where as good killers have it immensely hard against good survivors.
Telling us that you are rank one (if you are) is also not going to prove anything. Playing against Marth88/the Depip Squad will, but you will not be able to win there, just like the over 300 test subjects of which less than 5% were able to win.
If you are going to respond to this comment without doing any research, or speaking from credible experience, then I highly advice you to watch at least 3 games of the Marth88 experiment or any other good killer against good survivors.
For your satisfaction; In the first game linked below, there actually is a mori, and you'll see why it doesn't matter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls52x8aYPnA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kCgXuIQQ9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On1Y5O7EQ2I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzCgFNuiDm43 -
@SirMurphAlot said:
@Vancold i cringe as well when people go on forums and see something they apparently dont like then comment on how they dont like it, instead of doing what a rational person would do and read something that interest them.It's basically what you just did. How irrational of you.
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Yeah 4v1 you have a shot, ill agree but if a survivor isnt helping what are your chances with a 3v1, i play on console so i know, yeah you can disarm a trap but what about the addons that can counter that plus traps come back, any addon a killer uses can help deter those counters
This is where you do have a point. Not the point that the game is killer favoured (which it isn't), but that the game is very dependant on the progression you make as a 4 survivor team.
This has more to do with the fact that there are game-mechanics that predominantly target low-survivor count teams.If the game were to be less teammate-dependant they'd have to change a few core issues with the game:
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Bruh? Thanatophobia? Really?? LOL you gun bring in thanatophobia? At T3 it only adds like 3 seconds to gens xD it's not even worth talking about but I'll give you this resilience, leader, stakeout, shoot even simply a toolbox counters that perk.. make your choice? Stealth play counters that, diversion can be used... agitation and iron grasp are not used often simply because theres plenty of hooks to be used, enduring is a great but gives bp to the survivors so it's a good trade off.. nurses calling isnt that great either...SirMurphAlot said:@Bravo0413 oh you can counter thanathobia, make your choice, enduring, lightborn, iron grasp, agitation, nurses calling, should i go on, decisive strike can be dealt with by spinning, unnerving presence, dropping and swinging your weapon,
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I can't tell if this is a serious post or if you're trolling. If this is serious, get your head out of your elitist ass and don't play that "only rank 1 can have a valid opinion" #########. Rank one may be more challenging for a person just getting to that rank for the first time, but it does not always harbor the "most skilled players"MysticalMagic92 said:If you're not playing at rank one as both killer and survivor, your opinion is quite invalid. Rank one shows true skill, and if you play there you will realise it is much more difficult to be successful as a Killer, than as a survivor. It is very frustrating. Maybe watch something that actually shows what a killer has to deal with. You can say what you want, it's your opinion, but the only ones that matter are the actual people playing killer, and we are frustrated. If it's so easy, then why don't you become a killer main and add another player to our small roster why don't ya?
Rank 1 sometimes has legit good players, but I've seen absolute potatoes in rank 1 same as rank 15. Everyone in every rank can have a valid opinion, some people just can't handle that
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@SirMurphAlot said:
@GodDamn_Angela then dont complain about the offerings i referenced, no they arent you can still kill a survivor. Ok heres how the killer is more versatile 1: he is faster 2: has perks that can negate a survivors best defenses or offences 3: there powers can easily change the game if used right 4: add ons increase the effectiveness of there powers case and point michael myers spoons that allow him to see survivor auras while stalking. 5: Falls dont slow them down. Just to name a fewYou have no idea what "Versatile" means do you?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeWJcSWe-_0