Flashlight: One step away from being Great.
Flashlight: One step away from being Great.
Flashlights; The most hated item in the game. It was a concept that made perfect sense in a game like DBD, but became the pinnacle of toxicity among items.
Was it a mistake to add them??? After all, some even suggested their removal.
In this post I will show you why the answer is No... and how the Flashlight mechanic is 1 step away from being great.
Table of Contents
-Chapter 1: Flashlights Currently
-Section 1: Introduction to the flashlight.
-Section 2: How do they work?
-Section 3: Why is this a problem?
-Chapter 2: Reworking the Flashlight.
-Section 1: The Gameplay dynamic of the flashlight.
-Section 2: How to make it Great & Fair.
Chapter 1: Flashlights Currently
Section 1: Introduction to the flashlight.
Flashlights are items that can be gained from searching through a chest or can be equipped in the lobby. It comes with the ability to blind the killer, thus granting an opportunity for escape. But even more than that, stunning the killer as they carry someone will also result in the escape of that survivor, making it a very powerful tool to prevent the death of teammates.
There is 1 perk dedicated to restrain the powers of the flashlight; Lightborn. It makes the killer just resistant enough to the blind that during most of their animations they have just enough time to look away before the blind goes through.
For easier reference:
Here is some terminology to quickly refer to some of the things described above:
The use of the flashlight to escape during a chase is the: "Flashlight-Escape".
The use of the flashlight to save a survivor who is being carried is the: "Flashlight-Save".
The idea of you being able to counter flashlights seen in the lobby through a perk is what we call: Anti-Build.
The idea of you not being able to reactively respond to flashlights with an Anti-Build if flashlights are acquired through chests or a last second lobby switch is what we call: Balance's-Mercy.
Section 2: How do they work?
Currently, you have a narrow beam which you should aim at the killer's camera. Previously this camera might not always have been at their face, but this since has been patched.
While you are aiming, the killer should also be staring at the flashlight or have it in it's Field of Vision.
Whenever you are trying use the flashlight for a flashlight-save you need to time your beam well, to ensure the killer is blinded and lets go of the carried survivor. This is by timing your beam at the end of the pick-up animation.
Your battery depleted generally slowly if you are conservative with the beam.
Section 3: Why is this a problem?
You may have already guessed some of the problems that are caused by this mechanic.
Flashlight-Saves cannot be countered
You forgot to Anti-Build? Bad luck. Left to balance's-Mercy? Well...
Try staring at a wall! That's 1 thing. But now there's no wall nearby, what now?
Now there's nothing but to slug.
So what causes this problem? It definitely doesn't come from the ability to Flashlight-Save itself, does it?
The answer is: No.
Here's how it works:
The killer is the Red Dot. The Field Of Vision is shown in blue.
The killer is looking into a certain direction and if a player wants to be able to Flashlight-Save the killer they have to be inside of the blue area.
The problem is that they only have to by beaming in the direction of the killer at the end of that animation, meaning that they have ample amount of time to reposition themselves inside of the blue area, even if they were on the other side of the killer;
This makes the direction the killer is looking in meaningless.
Without walls, which is on control of the survivors, and without an Anti-build, your options run out quickly.
The Flashlight is too hard to use for beginners.
This is a problem quite contrary to the first problem. Here we see an item that beginners avoid, because in order for them to gain any value out of it, they need to get into some technicalities that aren't obvious from the start. They need to know how to aim their beam and they need to know the exact window in which to time it during a Flashlight-Save in order for it to work.
We don't want this. We want everybody to be able to use flashlights! Especially new players who are just learning everything just now. We want them to be able to pick up a flashlight and start blinding killers as they pick up survivors!
Are you crazy? Maybe, but if so, not for this suggestion.
Chapter 2: Reworking the Flashlight.
Section 1: The Gameplay dynamic of the flashlight.
Remember this?
This wheel of FOV is what makes the whole Flashlight mechanic so interesting. It's something the killer gets to control, for ONCE!
This wheel is the pinnacle of the Flashlight-Save concept!
Sadly in it's current implementation, it is mostly irrelevant, but it doesn't have to be;
Section 2: How to make it Great & Fair.
Increased Beam-Width
The new Flashlight mechanic increases the width of the beam tremendously. Making it almost impossible to miss.
Blinding Requirement:
There will be 2 different rates at which a killer will be blinded.
The first rate is the normal rate which is pretty quick. (Not instantly but reasonably close).
The second duration is the rate during animations. This rate is a lot slower. How much slower you ask?;
Blinding a killer during the pick-up animation.
In order for you to be able to blind a killer, you must be aiming the beam at them for nearly all of the animation. From the start to finish, about 90% of it.
This means that the survivor MUST BE right INSIDE the FOV in order to blind the killer during a pick-up animation;
An example:
You can duck up after crouching behind an object, you can jump out from the sides as the killer picks up the survivor or you can try to sprint inside of the killer's FOV before the survivor is being picked up hoping that you arrive just at the perfect time, but this time, if the killer is aware of a survivor with a flashlight, the killer is able to rotate the FOV wheel into a different direction at the speed of their sensitivity and the survivor will be unable to re-enter it.
This creates the following change:
Instead of the flashlight being a wall that prevents a killer aware of the flashlight-wielding survivor from picking up a downed survivor, it is now only mechanic that can be used when the killer is unaware of the survivor, as they can rotate their FOV wheel and prevent that survivor from blinding them.
When a killer gets blinded, even though the impact remains, it will feel more fair as they could've prevented it from happening through mechanics that THEY have control over.
Blind-FOV:
The angle at which a survivor should be able to blind the killer is 33% of the total 360 degrees, meaning that if 2 survivors in an open field would be trying to Flashlight-Save against an aware killer, that killer would be able to out-rotate them to a 33% where there is no survivor.
In an open field, only 3 survivors with a flashlight would be able to go for a save, but at this point nobody is doing gens and there is someone bleeding on the ground; This time the killer gains from waiting.
Beam-Widening add-ons
Since the beam is not ridiculously wide and nobody could miss it, the beam will now slightly increase the angle at which you can blind the killer, but only slightly so.
Flashlight Adjusting Eyes
There will be a variable that is multiplied with the rate at which a killer can be blinded that will decrease that rate based on how much blinding-build-off has been going on within a certain period of time.
For example:
It takes 0.5 seconds to get blinded.
A survivor tries to blind a killer but the killer looks away at 0.4 seconds, meaning that 0.4 seconds of failed blind will be building off. These 0.4 seconds increase the total amount it requires a killer to be blinded for a short period of time, meaning that if the survivor tries to go for another quick blind right after their first failed attempt, their 2nd attempt takes longer, say 1 second for a duration of 30 seconds, as this 1 seconds also builds off to 0.5 again linearly.
This is to prevent spam type of flashlight usage with our new nearly insta-blind flashlights in normal chasing scenario's.
End Note
Through this change to flashlights, we've changed the flashlight from being an items used by better players due to awkward technicalities, while being uncounterable during certain scenario's and therefore feeling unfair (or toxic), to an item that everyone can use at any skill-level only requiring your character's positioning!
No more awkward pick-up animation timing!
No more excluding new players from using the flashlight to such unintuitive mechanics!
No more guarantee blinds during most of the animations, (such as window vaulting or breaking pallets) as the rate is decreased.
More running around corners and suddenly turning around in order to try to blind the killer while they are NOT in an animation! And yes, with counter-play for the killer.
From now on, your ability to flash-light save is decided by your ability to sneak up on a killer inside their FOV and if done successfully, with great rewards as ever before.
Your aiming is irrelevant, weird technicalities are irrelevant and for one of the first times a killer can be blinded and say;
"This is truly my own fault"
Thank you for reading!
Comments
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Haha no way i'm gonna read this.
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@Vietfox said:
Haha no way i'm gonna read this.If you only want the solution, try chapter 2, section 2. Table of contents (:
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Lamo same here, I was just gonna go off of the comments 😂Vietfox said:Haha no way i'm gonna read this.
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The devs just decided survivors should have flashbangs instead. From the design team that brought you Decisive Strike.
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@The_Crusader said:
The devs just decided survivors should have flashbangs instead. From the design team that brought you Decisive Strike.Tough love, we're used to it.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@Vietfox said:
Haha no way i'm gonna read this.If you only want the solution, try chapter 2, section 2. Table of contents (:
Thanks!
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Love the concept, basically the survivor needs to have the beam on the killer during 90% of the pick up animation to perform a save. You don't need to have timing, you just need to make sure you have the beam on the killer for 90% of the pick up animation. The killer can move their PoV away from the survivor before the pick up animation so the survivor won't get beam on the killer for more than 90%! Brilliant, love it and I wanna say your threads are very well thought out!
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I think it boils down to the biggest issue of flashlights. It isn't that they can force the killer to drop a survivor, possibly repeatedly if you get unlucky with where walls are, it's that most blinds come at a point where the killer is locked into an animation and has no ability to control their camera to avoid it. It's a mechanic designed to be highly punishing but counterplayed by looking away, and most of the time that counterplay just isn't available.
That said, the pickup time change a while back has made it significantly harder to get a flashlight blind immediately after a pickup and I feel like the way it's described here it's highly exaggerated how easy and quickly a survivor can get into position. Since those changes I've rarely had a situation where just changing the direction I'm facing right before I pick someone up wasn't enough to prevent the blind.
If anything was to change about flashlights, I'd just want a small quality of life change so that 1 charge is consumed minimum each time you turn on the flashlight. It'd have no real gameplay impact except that clicking a flashlight to be a little attention seeker would chunk down and destroy the flashlight really quickly.
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No flashlight counters?
Act like you’re about to pick the person up and the survivor with the flashlight will swarm out with the save giving away their position and then all you gotta do is hit them away.
Then, there is the perk Lightborn
I’m not reading all of this about one item in the game, stop whining about a flashlight and get good2 -
I find it quite ironic that someone who is whining is trying to make the item you think they are whining about more powerful. The beam will be more wider, there's no more timing involved (you just need to have the beam on the killer for 90% of the pick up animation to get the save), and etc.PinkEricka said:No flashlight counters?
Act like you’re about to pick the person up and the survivor with the flashlight will swarm out with the save giving away their position and then all you gotta do is hit them away.
Then, there is the perk Lightborn
I’m not reading all of this about one item in the game, stop whining about a flashlight and get good
Please read the thread before you assume, it's quite rude.
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@anarchy753 said:
I think it boils down to the biggest issue of flashlights. It isn't that they can force the killer to drop a survivor, possibly repeatedly if you get unlucky with where walls are, it's that most blinds come at a point where the killer is locked into an animation and has no ability to control their camera to avoid it. It's a mechanic designed to be highly punishing but counterplayed by looking away, and most of the time that counterplay just isn't available.Yea because if there was no locked animation its would be super easy to avoid a FL. It's already pretty easy to avoid. Look at a wall, or just in the opposite direction from the FL guy. Don't just pick up someone if you know there is another survivor with a FL, check the area first. Mash the drop button when they run out, even if they get the blind you will just sponge it and drop them. Land a hit on the FL guy and they will be less likely to FL you. Really I never get FL and think "OMG these things are broken please fix". I think "I messed up I should have expected that/counter played". Sometimes it's a legit surprise, when they find it, but then it's like, well played dude. He got me once now I know to be more careful. If he gets me again it's no one's fault but my own.
Survivors can be screwed by an animation lock too. Slow vault is the best example I can give. If you know it will be a slow vault, then you don't vault, because doing so is a definite grab/hit. You are better off trying to juke/360 in those cases. There is also the unhook animation lock, which you can cancel now but doing so cancels the unhook too. If you want to actually unhook you are stuck in the animation.
It's a matter of "you can't do that because I can punish it". Take away the "you can't do that" and you take away the punish too. Like when I chase a survivor near a fake pallet (fake as in there is no mind game and killer wins, eg. the pallet by the car on Haddonfield, or the pallet at the parallel walled jungle gyms) and they try to mind game me I just say to myself "you can't do that, I can punish you". Then I chase and bait the pallet drop but go around the wall/tree/whatever and hit them just as they finish dropping the pallet. A smart survivor would KNOW they can't mind game those pallets and either drop it early, or drop it when they are sure I will swing through the pallet.
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@Nickenzie Then my mistake.Nickenzie said:
I find it quite ironic that someone who is whining is trying to make the item you think they are whining about more powerful. The beam will be more wider, there's no more timing involved (you just need to have the beam on the killer for 90% of the pick up animation to get the save), and etc.PinkEricka said:No flashlight counters?
Act like you’re about to pick the person up and the survivor with the flashlight will swarm out with the save giving away their position and then all you gotta do is hit them away.
Then, there is the perk Lightborn
I’m not reading all of this about one item in the game, stop whining about a flashlight and get good
Please read the thread before you assume, it's quite rude.
They could have just easily summarized what they were talking about.2 -
It's all cool! Props for admitting to a mistake!PinkEricka said:
@Nickenzie Then my mistake.Nickenzie said:
I find it quite ironic that someone who is whining is trying to make the item you think they are whining about more powerful. The beam will be more wider, there's no more timing involved (you just need to have the beam on the killer for 90% of the pick up animation to get the save), and etc.PinkEricka said:No flashlight counters?
Act like you’re about to pick the person up and the survivor with the flashlight will swarm out with the save giving away their position and then all you gotta do is hit them away.
Then, there is the perk Lightborn
I’m not reading all of this about one item in the game, stop whining about a flashlight and get good
Please read the thread before you assume, it's quite rude.
They could have just easily summarized what they were talking about.
TL;DR
Flashlights will almost instantly blind killers when they are NOT in a animation.
Flashlights can perform free saves (Like that one broke update) if you just have the beam on the killer for 90% of the pick up animation.
Direct flashlight buffs such a wider beam and add on reworks.
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nah they straight. also stop changing pick up animation every update thanks0
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
Blinding a killer during the pick-up animation.
In order for you to be able to blind a killer, you must be aiming the beam at them for nearly all of the animation. From the start to finish, about 90% of it.You seriously need to learn to paraphrase. That fact that you actually break your post up into "chapters" says everything. Make your point and be on with it. Anyway, this little snippet is just bizarre. Killers already have ample answers to being flashlight blinded while picking up a survivor. It isn't easy to sneak in range of a killer picking up a survivor especially since you don't know which direction the killer will actually face while doing so. Even if you do, timing it just right so it blinds after the survivor is all the way on the shoulder isn't very easy.
So the skill and difficulty level for the survivor is already quite high. The killer has multiple answers including finding and chasing off any nearby survivors with flashlights, facing into a wall or opposite direction of the would-be savior so they don't have time to get into position, or using perks such as franklin's demise or lightborn if flashlights are shown in pre-game lobby. So why should this aspect of the game be nerfed? It's already in the killers hands if they give survivors the opportunity to flashlight save.
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To be honest, I like this version and yeah sure, the numbers won't be perfect. However, with some tweaking here and there, we might have something special here!Dreamnomad said:@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
Blinding a killer during the pick-up animation.
In order for you to be able to blind a killer, you must be aiming the beam at them for nearly all of the animation. From the start to finish, about 90% of it.You seriously need to learn to paraphrase. That fact that you actually break your post up into "chapters" says everything. Make your point and be on with it. Anyway, this little snippet is just bizarre. Killers already have ample answers to being flashlight blinded while picking up a survivor. It isn't easy to sneak in range of a killer picking up a survivor especially since you don't know which direction the killer will actually face while doing so. Even if you do, timing it just right so it blinds after the survivor is all the way on the shoulder isn't very easy.
So the skill and difficulty level for the survivor is already quite high. The killer has multiple answers including finding and chasing off any nearby survivors with flashlights, facing into a wall or opposite direction of the would-be savior so they don't have time to get into position, or using perks such as franklin's demise or lightborn if flashlights are shown in pre-game lobby. So why should this aspect of the game be nerfed? It's already in the killers hands if they give survivors the opportunity to flashlight save.
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Me in Chapter 1 Section 3:
You forgot to Anti-Build? Bad luck. Left to balance's-Mercy? Well... (Anti-Build = Lightborn)Try staring at a wall! That's 1 thing. But now there's no wall nearby, what now?
Now there's nothing but to slug.
You:
No flashlight counters?Act like you’re about to pick the person up and the survivor with the flashlight will swarm out with the save giving away their position and then all you gotta do is hit them away.
Then, there is the perk Lightborn
(Wall part missing)
See, that is the point of this "too long to read post". It's to cover EVERYTHING REGARDING FLASHLIGHTS, meaning that you could have guessed it; Your comment is basically: Chapter 1 Section 3 Subject 1, but you forgot to mention the Wall strategy. (I even covered Chapter 1 Section 3 Subject 1 in less sentences than you did!)
I prefer people to read the post instead of commenting incomplete sections of my post (Chapter 1 Section 3 Subject 1)
If there are parts that you don't want to read, check the Table of Contents, it makes life really easy (:
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@PinkEricka said:
No flashlight counters?Act like you’re about to pick the person up and the survivor with the flashlight will swarm out with the save giving away their position and then all you gotta do is hit them away.
Then, there is the perk Lightborn
I’m not reading all of this about one item in the game, stop whining about a flashlight and get good
Oh yes, act.
Against the ######### I play at Rank 1.Act. Ok. Look down.
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Actually you can be blinded from outside your POV
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1
You seriously need to learn to paraphrase. That fact that you actually break your post up into "chapters" says everything. Make your point and be on with it.
My chapters are not the same as a chapter in your favourite novel. Every subject could've been it's own post. This post is also not about "making my 1 point", because it's about making all the points surrounding the topic of flashlights, meaning that if there's anything concept introduced to the game due to the flashlight being added, then it's covered in this post.
For the amount of points (not singular) that I made in this post, I think I did things quite brief.
2
Anyway, this little snippet is just bizarre. Killers already have ample answers to being flashlight blinded while picking up a survivor. It isn't easy to sneak in range of a killer picking up a survivor especially since you don't know which direction the killer will actually face while doing so. Even if you do, timing it just right so it blinds after the survivor is all the way on the shoulder isn't very easy.
So the skill and difficulty level for the survivor is already quite high. The killer has multiple answers including finding and chasing off any nearby survivors with flashlights, facing into a wall or opposite direction of the would-be savior so they don't have time to get into position, or using perks such as franklin's demise or lightborn if flashlights are shown in pre-game lobby. So why should this aspect of the game be nerfed? It's already in the killers hands if they give survivors the opportunity to flashlight save.
Killers already have ample answer to being flashlight blinded while picking up a survivor? Like the one already being mentioned in the post?
You cannot be dependant on Balance's Mercy, thus there goes Lightborn.
A survivor dying near a wall is also something survivors control, not you.
Being forced to slug, requiring you to chase a survivor is also in their control. And why you attempt the scaring away, that survivor gets healed behind your back.In other words, there aren't a lot of answers, and the answers that currently are their are only availably if the survivors decide to make them so.
So the skill and difficulty level for the survivor is already quite high.
Most of the flashlight difficulty comes from the awkward mechanic and having to aim your beam. This is not the healthy form of difficulty, because when these requirements are always met, there really isn't much drawback.
So why should this aspect of the game be nerfed? It's already in the killers hands if they give survivors the opportunity to flashlight save.
We already showed why this is not the case. The presence of the flashlight alone, even when aware already mandates you to slug and is thus fully in the hands of the survivors, not you.
So why should this aspect of the game be nerfed?
Because we buff and nerf the flashlight in the most perfect way: That both the killer and the survivor have a fair chance to use their flashlight.
Normally the use of flashlights depend on abusing a technicality of the Devs forcing your neck to be stuck during an animation.
That's not what I call great gameplay;
Remember when Laurie Strode blinded Myers in Halloween, because Myers neck got stuck while he climbed through the window?Instead of building on top of this weirdness, we replace both the Flashlight-Escape and Flashlight-Save on something that is conceptually sound:
The the unsuspecting survivor used their flashlight against the killer, they managed to blind them and run away!This means that you can't blind during most of the animations, and only during the pick-up animation when you are the "unsuspecting" survivor.
We also make it possible to blind during chases without the locked neck abuse. Since the new flash-time is so quickly, when you run around a corner and shine towards an unsuspecting killer, you can actually blind them because in order for them to be able to react, they needed to be alert, but this too is something that the killer gets to respond to, creating more dynamic scenario's other then: You vault --> Me Blind You.ExeThat is why certain things need to be nerfed and other to be buffed (:
Allowing the noobies to have fun with it too.0 -
@Master said:
Actually you can be blinded from outside your POVThe rate at which you get blinded somewhat varies based on your exact angle, but the angle is 33% of 360 degrees = 118.8 degrees.
Currently Premonition gives you a warning when looking in a cone of 45 degrees.If you currently have less than a 118.8 degrees as FOV then the flashlight area could also be decreased.
I took 33% as a maximum value, so if the Devs'd consider it, they can reduce that 118.8 to the exact FOV we have currently or if you have more FOV then the effective flashlight range should be 118.8 exactly.
I didn't cover this in the OP but glad you brought it to light!
Post edited by AlwaysInAGoodShape on0 -
Act like you’re about to pick the person up
Oh yes, act.
Against the ######### I play at Rank 1.Act. Ok. Look down.
The funny part is that this could actually WOULD be a valid strategy IF the 90% version was implemented because then you'd have to be ready at the start of the animation and not at the near end.
It's hard to fake it when you have the fake the first half of your pick-up animation before they would be required to do something xd
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@ReneAenslandAct like you’re about to pick the person up
Oh yes, act.
Against the ######### I play at Rank 1.Act. Ok. Look down.
The funny part is that this could actually WOULD be a valid strategy IF the 90% version was implemented because then you'd have to be ready at the start of the animation and not at the near end.
It's hard to fake it when you have the fake the first half of your pick-up animation before they would be required to do something xd
Yes faking was a really good counter a few months ago, right now it doesnt work anymore
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@ReneAenslandAct like you’re about to pick the person up
Oh yes, act.
Against the ######### I play at Rank 1.Act. Ok. Look down.
The funny part is that this could actually WOULD be a valid strategy IF the 90% version was implemented because then you'd have to be ready at the start of the animation and not at the near end.
It's hard to fake it when you have the fake the first half of your pick-up animation before they would be required to do something xd
lol yes!
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You did not stop at "Flashlight-Saves cannot be countered". You stopped earlier because you repeated:
There is a reason why you get to see survivors' items in the lobby.
Which was already debunked in the main post as a valid form of game-balance. See: Balance's-Mercy.
There's always a wall nearby
In your dreams. The survivors are in control of there being a wall nearby. It's not in your power and this too was already mentioned in the main post.
if not, the insanely fast pick-up animation still makes it near-impossible if you play your cards right.
I'd say this is outright false. You have a window to react; 10%. It is this minimal window that allows you exactly to get your save if you indeed played your cards right.
And if you played your cards right you'll not be punished for: Bad ping, missing your aim, etc.
It's rewarding players who play their cards right. That is the essence of the FOV Wheel.The current system will punish you if you play your cards right, as if you fail at their exact technicality you'll not get the save.
Currently if you play your cards right or wrong, it doesn't matter; all that matters is that you apply to the end-of-pick-up-flashrequirement.0 -
Yes, there is indeed a wall / anything that will block the survivor from getting a FL save almost 90% of the time. Tree, wall, debris...
This is only the case when the survivor screws up and is not in the killer's control. If a survivor doesn't want to die near debris, they don't.
So if we believe your overestimated number of 90%, what is this supposed to suggest? That because the 10% is so low, the flashlight mechanic should therefore be allowed to be dysfunctional?
Because against good survivors, this 90% = 10%, or as Ochido puts it: "Crawl away from the wall crawl away from the wall!".
You could always just check your surroundings and make sure that there are no survivors nearby. Faking pick-ups also exists. If you do find them and chase them away and immidiately return and turn your back, there is no window for the survivors to do a FL save.
This was also mentioned in a comment above and we already covered this one. You can only "Fake" picking a survivor up insofar you are standing on top of them. It is still the survivor's behalf to screw up.
It's also really hard to fake the first 50% of your pickup animation because only at the end of the animation do survivors need to be beaming.
I don't understand as to what you mean "balance's mercy".
Chapter 1, Section 1 Subject: For easier reference.
The way to counter FL saves or flashlights is Lightborn / Franklin's, and you can equip those in the lobby if you see survivors with flashlights. If they last second switch, that's too bad and the devs should fix that. Or you can just use the methods above.
We already covered why the Anti-Build (Light-Born) is bad game-design and doesn't work. The game should not malfunction for you not having a specific perk.
Survivors not being able to last second switch doesn't solve the 2nd aspect of balance's mercy: Flashlights through chests.
The flashlight simply has to be a proper mechanic in the game.The other methods above: Wall staring, slugging do not work and are also in control of the survivor.
Since the anti-build is invalid, staring at a wall is in control of the killer and slugging forces you to deal with a 240 timer while someone else heals the survivor back up while you hunt to other survivor and it becomes tick-tack-toe.You lose by the fact of them wielding a flashlight and you shouldn't. Both players should have an interplay between choices that they have in order to create interesting back and forth.
Again all of your points and my responses to it were already mentioned in the Original post.
Please make sure that when you comment, you show how my reasoning against a certain claim is invalid instead of bringing up the same points I brought up in the original post and already refuted;
Argue about how the location where the survivor dies IS ultimately in the killer's power, etc.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@Dreamnomad1
You seriously need to learn to paraphrase. That fact that you actually break your post up into "chapters" says everything. Make your point and be on with it.
My chapters are not the same as a chapter in your favourite novel. Every subject could've been it's own post. This post is also not about "making my 1 point", because it's about making all the points surrounding the topic of flashlights, meaning that if there's anything concept introduced to the game due to the flashlight being added, then it's covered in this post.
For the amount of points (not singular) that I made in this post, I think I did things quite brief.
2
Anyway, this little snippet is just bizarre. Killers already have ample answers to being flashlight blinded while picking up a survivor. It isn't easy to sneak in range of a killer picking up a survivor especially since you don't know which direction the killer will actually face while doing so. Even if you do, timing it just right so it blinds after the survivor is all the way on the shoulder isn't very easy.
So the skill and difficulty level for the survivor is already quite high. The killer has multiple answers including finding and chasing off any nearby survivors with flashlights, facing into a wall or opposite direction of the would-be savior so they don't have time to get into position, or using perks such as franklin's demise or lightborn if flashlights are shown in pre-game lobby. So why should this aspect of the game be nerfed? It's already in the killers hands if they give survivors the opportunity to flashlight save.
Killers already have ample answer to being flashlight blinded while picking up a survivor? Like the one already being mentioned in the post?
You cannot be dependant on Balance's Mercy, thus there goes Lightborn.
A survivor dying near a wall is also something survivors control, not you.
Being forced to slug, requiring you to chase a survivor is also in their control. And why you attempt the scaring away, that survivor gets healed behind your back.In other words, there aren't a lot of answers, and the answers that currently are their are only availably if the survivors decide to make them so.
So the skill and difficulty level for the survivor is already quite high.
Most of the flashlight difficulty comes from the awkward mechanic and having to aim your beam. This is not the healthy form of difficulty, because when these requirements are always met, there really isn't much drawback.
So why should this aspect of the game be nerfed? It's already in the killers hands if they give survivors the opportunity to flashlight save.
We already showed why this is not the case. The presence of the flashlight alone, even when aware already mandates you to slug and is thus fully in the hands of the survivors, not you.
So why should this aspect of the game be nerfed?
Because we buff and nerf the flashlight in the most perfect way: That both the killer and the survivor have a fair chance to use their flashlight.
Normally the use of flashlights depend on abusing a technicality of the Devs forcing your neck to be stuck during an animation.
That's not what I call great gameplay;
Remember when Laurie Strode blinded Myers in Halloween, because Myers neck got stuck while he climbed through the window?Instead of building on top of this weirdness, we replace both the Flashlight-Escape and Flashlight-Save on something that is conceptually sound:
The the unsuspecting survivor used their flashlight against the killer, they managed to blind them and run away!This means that you can't blind during most of the animations, and only during the pick-up animation when you are the "unsuspecting" survivor.
We also make it possible to blind during chases without the locked neck abuse. Since the new flash-time is so quickly, when you run around a corner and shine towards an unsuspecting killer, you can actually blind them because in order for them to be able to react, they needed to be alert, but this too is something that the killer gets to respond to, creating more dynamic scenario's other then: You vault --> Me Blind You.ExeThat is why certain things need to be nerfed and other to be buffed (:
Allowing the noobies to have fun with it too.Dude! USE LESS WORDS! So quick question, how often are survivors performing flashlight saves when you play killer? For me, it is maybe one in twenty-five games. I think I'm being generous with that estimate as I can't even recall the last time I dropped a survivor due to a flashlight save. Every time it does happen, I think to myself "yup, I deserved that. I wasn't being careful". This really isn't a big issue at all.
Most of your points prove that you are either bad at playing killer or just arguing for the sake of arguing. " A survivor dying near a wall is also something survivors control, not you." What kind of crap is this? Unless the survivor runs away from any objects and stands there and waits for the killer to knock them down then the survivor isn't in control of where they get knocked down. The killer chooses when to attack. Just because you can knock a survivor down now doesn't mean you shouldn't wait 3 seconds for them to get near an object.
" Being forced to slug, requiring you to chase a survivor is also in their control. And why you attempt the scaring away, that survivor gets healed behind your back." This is only true if you are bad at playing killer. Once you knock someone down, take 2 seconds to see if a survivor is lurking nearby. If they are give a short chase and hit once or if it seems like it would take longer than 5 seconds to hit them just turn around and go pick up the knocked down survivor. If you move toward the survivor they will run and be out of position to get the save. If someone is attempting to heal when you pick up the survivor, hit them too. Don't commit to a long chase to either survivor. Just scare them off and pick up your prey. It doesn't take long and while the survivors are dinking around failing to accomplish anything, they aren't working on generators.
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It's not about the frequency at which it happens. It's about it being a flawed mechanic and the fact that it can happen at an incredibly high frequency.
I don't know what your point is when you first attempt to refute what I say, while quickly adding an ""It doesn't happen frequently" along with it. Is your point that it's not a problem? Is it that it is a problem but not worth it because it doesn't happen frequently?
That is what arguing for the sakes of arguing looks like.This really isn't a big issue at all.
You say this due to your inability to understand the DBD rank system and the effects that it has on frequency of toxic methods, but that is worth a thread in itself.
Most of your points prove that you are either bad at playing killer or just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Giving the full list of counters to flashlights in DBD is an indicator of me not understanding the game/being bad it it? My list was more complete that commenters that tried to debunk it managed to came up with. xD
Unless the survivor runs away from any objects and stands there and waits for the killer to knock them down then the survivor isn't in control of where they get knocked down. The killer chooses when to attack. Just because you can knock a survivor down now doesn't mean you shouldn't wait 3 seconds for them to get near an object.
Yes, this is what happens when survivors actually try. When they realise they are going to die they make sure they do so in an open spot. You don't have a choice.
If you move toward the survivor they will run and be out of position to get the save.
Evidently untrue. Rhetoric doesn't convince anyone. What is convincing is the multitude of video evidence of good survivors consistently managing to INDEED reposition themselves.
It doesn't take long and while the survivors are dinking around failing to accomplish anything, they aren't working on generators.
Rhetoric rhetoric and more rhetoric, and again evidently untrue.
Then again, you keep assuming survivors deliberately play bad and keep pointing out frequency, thus playing repeatedly into the Rank-Matchmaking-Fallacy.As long as you don't understand that Rhetoric =/= Empirical Evidence, as long as you don't understand the DBD Rank-Matchmaking-Fallacy, then I'll keep pointing it out to you.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
I don't know what your point is when you first attempt to refute what I say, while quickly adding an ""It doesn't happen frequently" along with it. Is your point that it's not a problem? Is it that it is a problem but not worth it because it doesn't happen frequently?It is both not a problem and it doesn't happen frequently.
Giving the full list of counters to flashlights in DBD is an indicator of me not understanding the game/being bad it it? My list was more complete that commenters that tried to debunk it managed to came up with. xD
Using lots of words doesn't increase the value of your argument.
When they realise they are going to die they make sure they do so in an open spot. You don't have a choice.
It is very rare for survivors to have and use that kind of insight. The vast majority of survivors will run until they are caught or have evaded the killer. Even if they do, it is 100% counterable by the killer as I have already explained.
If you move toward the survivor they will run and be out of position to get the save.
Evidently untrue. Rhetoric doesn't convince anyone. What is convincing is the multitude of video evidence of good survivors consistently managing to INDEED reposition themselves.
This isn't a matter of "rhetoric". It is physically impossible for survivors to reposition themselves to flashlight blind after being chased by the killer properly. Feel free to link any video you think proves otherwise and I'll explain how the killer screwed up.
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It is both not a problem and it doesn't happen frequently.
It is a problem and it happens very frequently at a high level.
Using lots of words doesn't increase the value of your argument.
The part that I referred to was 3 sentences. Are 3 sentences too much or do you have an attention span problem and want a subjects scattered in separate posts?
It is very rare for survivors to have and use that kind of insight.
It is completely not rare. It is only rare among bad players.
This isn't a matter of "rhetoric". It is physically impossible for survivors to reposition themselves to flashlight blind after being chased by the killer properly. Feel free to link any video you think proves otherwise and I'll explain how the killer screwed up.
4:43 - 5:09
The survivor in this example is positioned near a wall, but for the sake of exemplifying; By the virtue of that flashlight existing, this player was unable to pick up the survivor and despite this being nurse, the team was able to heal the downed survivor up to full before the chase was ended.
In any example like:
where there would be 2 flashlights, survivors could already completely remove the idea of "chasing away", as all you can do is play back and forth between the 2 flashlight survivors.
Second Example shows you wrong with there only being 1 survivor.
7:03
Not only is he not able to get a hit. He is literally not able do down her even with TIER 3.
The flashlight again by the virtue of existing already prevented the killer from picking up a survivor.(Perhaps for this power, we should have the battery drain for the mere fact of you holding the item, jk)
In the video his luck comes from the fact of 1 survivor being dead and the other not coming to the scene to pray on the abusiveness of the flashlight.
Now to take your example and lets PRETEND that you even get to get a hit off and assume the survivor cannot reposition themselves, they still have ample of time to reposition themselves by the mere fact of only having to be present at the END of the animation.
You can find the perfect example of an injured Ochido dead harding all the way from behind a killer to get the flashlight save. It's somewhere on his channel in I think his most recent (last 2 months) videos in a green-tinted map near a giant Yellow vehicle with a window.
While everyone agreed with changing the slow pick-up animation speed that this game once had, they all silently agreed with my solution, including the devs;
Being able to give players ample time to reposition themselves s unhealthy and breaks the FOV Wheel aspect of the flashlights.So how much time should be granted? the 10% covered here in this post (:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i6Eh3MS1zc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx7EflhgF6M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kcPafvZafY