How Would You Balance the Game, Best ignored ideas
With 6000 hours in it is so obvious the game is unbalanced and killer sided. If you don't believe that, you do not play solo queue survivor. I've played both sides and there is no comparison. Killer mains who believe it is their right to always get a 4k disagree.
What are some of the best suggestions (which are routinely ignored by developers) you have heard by playersto balance the game?
I came to this conclusion after watching the futility of four survivors with a combined experience time of over 16000 hours be destroyed by a killer with 230 hours of play leads me to believe it is a glaring and obvious unbalanced game.
So I am hoping to collect in one post the most often repeated good ideas which have been ignored.
I'll start it off:
1.) Certain perk combinations are not permitted. For instance, place all perks into categories like gen regression, or aura reading, etc. Only one perk from a category can be used in a game so you do not have multiple perks which make a particular activity impossible. So no instant gen regression combos which make doing gens impossible. Or only one perk which effects heal times. Or no multiple aura reading combinations.
2.) Balanced perks, for every positive there is an equal negative. Too often DLC releases with a new perk selection which gives one side a great perk and the other side gets three new perks which do bupkiss.
Comments
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Okay first all of all, how do all 4 people with 4k hours get bummed by a killer with less than 300? The math isn't mathing with that statement. 2, solo survivor is rough but that doesn't mean that solos can't play in a level close to a swf. So it's not automatic loss every time. The game isn't killer or survivor sided. It's who's sweating the hardest in terms of load out, strong killer abilities, and communication. You'd think you'd know that after 6k hours
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This post isn’t adding up in many categories.
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Nope, not the response type I'm looking for. If you did not understand, I'm not looking for a bunch of arguments why you do not believe the facts. ALL sites which tract the game's results show killers routinely get the most points and less than half the time a survivor escapes. Those are facts. You can ignore them in your own head, but facts be facts. The discussion is what ideas which are routinely ignored but continuously come up would you like to see in the game. I gave two examples. Looking for more.
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Cool. What suggestions do you have for balancing the game which are routinely offered but always ignored.
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I can make a comment replying to anything on this page. If you are saying weird and entitled nonsense, I can comment against that. What you're doing is you're intentionally ignoring my points BECAUSE you don't have an argument against them.
Post edited by Rizzo on7 -
I have 6 k of play. that means between the other three survivors they had a combined 10k hours of experience, so they each had an average of 3333 hours of experience. The math works. Again math be fact based. It is numbers. So the facts support my comments, though I realize others' feelings may be different. I'm not trying to change your feelings. Feelings and facts don't always align, as we are seeing.
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Also isn't that a weak argument to use stats as a be all end all? Last time I checked, stats are what almost got Billy's addons nerfed, why Nursetooka long time for changes, why Sadako hasn't gotten buffed, and why even Twins had that one addon nerfed that barely anyone runs. You don't get to claim facts are facts when so much of dbd proves hard numbers don't account to practicality
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A good start is nerfing medkits, DH, and CoH. Oh wait…
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I'm not ignoring your comments, I'm disproving them. You can comment however you want. You may post recipes or home decorating tips if you want, but that is not the point of this conversation. If you do not have any suggestions, that is cool, probably should look for a topic you can respond to where you can further the conversation.
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Hmm no. I'm going to comment on a thread that's essentially boiling the game down to us v them while intentionally lying about how the game plays out while using my game hours to try to add authenticity to a bad take. You've done nothing to disprove my points at all. Don't post us v them biased statements and you won't get a response like this.
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Okay, you are looking for an argument, I am attempting to have a discussion. Do you understand the difference? Do people tend to kind of ignore you at family gatherings because you can't grasp basic social dynamics? Thank you for your opinion, but I am not looking for opinions or to hear from folks ignoring the game data. Sometimes listening is a viable option when you can not participate in a discussion.
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The point discrepancy is not the result of game imbalance but is instead a questionable design decision to make the survival category very difficult to get points in. The devs probably should fix that eventually, but it isn't urgent and isn't a game balance problem.
As for the kill rate discrepancy, there's a very simple explanation there too. It's real difficult to get a 4E. Even if the killer is having a bad game, it isn't too difficult for them to camp somebody in end game and get at least 1 person. Sometimes more if the survivors attempt the 4E and mess it up. A 4k on the other hand doesn't have that extra difficulty bump. Due to that fact alone, a 50% escape rate would actually be very survivor sided despite that not making sense on the surface.
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To be honest most of the stuff I'd been wanting to see happen is now happening.
- Item healing specifically is being focused on - It wasn't initially like that for PTB but the change is pretty much what I wanted to see. It should put more focus on survivors healing together rather than a survivor being a one person army because of a medkit or even a perk.
- A lot of problematic perks are finally addressed and now the game can focus on toning down some killers that need it.
- Hillbilly seems to be getting a buff with a slight adjustment. Overall I want my boy Billy to come back to being top tier and in most of the games but I don't think it will happen. In the very least I'd love to see Billy get deserved buffs.
Honestly the only things I'd want to see now is reworks to Shape and Twins and rebalancing of Hag to encourage leaving her web and even reward her. The pain resonance change was great because this very concept was touched on. You have limited resources that have a high impact and you're encouraged to not hover in an area for too long. Hag should get a similar treatment and it would make things more enjoyable for both sides.
This went from one of the worst PTB's to an above average one for me with the last sweep of changes they made. If I see more Hillbilly buffs I'll be happy but overall he just needs an addon pass and removal of the heat mechanic. No one likes it and it doesn't add to Hillbilly's kit in any way that's positive. If you want to stop camping the only way to address it is adjusting some killers power to only charge at normal speeds while they're proactive in chases. I've suggested this for Leatherface where he only gains charges while in chase and it slowly depletes when he's standing still and if needed it could be applied to other killers if you really want to stop killer camping with power. A lot of deployables are disabled or destroyed around hooked survivors anyway so I don't see why it should be different for other killers without deployables.
I admit there's not much else I want to see in the game aside from probably deleting the Spirit but that's just a bias I have against that killer and probably unfair to most people.
Certain perk combinations are not permitted
When I started playing in 2016 this is what I felt the game should have done in 2017 but then certain debuffs and exhaustions were added so I feel a bit differently now. I do feel that some perks should have some restriction to not stack with others but this is now mostly with survivor perks that benefit items or healing.
Balanced perks, for every positive there is an equal negative
I feel the real issue is having perks that apply in every situation. Some perks BHVR make are very niche and I feel this isn't inherently an issue with their perks but more how you have to have consistently good perks equipped. If you don't run meta perks you rely on matchmaking and RNG to make the stars align. In this situation these perks are either underwhelming or single handedly can win the game. Not knowing what the other side is running is part of this problem and why this will never be a thing. You're just guessing what will be good for that particular game.
For example as survivor - Sprint Burst is good in every game, Lithe is good in every game, Bond is good in every game. They will always get consistent use. Meanwhile Head-On is such a niche use and situational perk that when you can use it that getting good value out of it without coordination is hard.
There are a lot of killer perks like this too but isn't as problematic as you don't rely on survivors most of the time to make them work aside from Shattered Hope.
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Facts over feelings sure. But that's a hypocritical stance to take when you just argued feelings over fact yourself. If you guys are the 10k hour squad you just talked about and you manages to lose to someone with less than 500 hours, I'd be more concerned about how you all managed to lose against someone who's inexperienced.
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Could you link your page showing hours?
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Math only proves people points
Survivors getting less BP... Either they didn't do much or the Killer didn't allow it to happen
Perks aren't the only things that need to be changed
Base progression and regression need to be looked at
Hook timers need to be longer (for Survivors sake)
Gens times need to be looked at
Maps need to be looked at
Then perks... but not before or during
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RNG happens. Sometimes you load into a 5 gen Suffo Pit, 4 gen Azarovs, etc., against a quad slowdown Never Sleep Pill Legion who refuses to cross the map. Obviously those survivors would win an overwhelming majority of the time if they played each other 20 times, but one side sometimes wins from the loading screen. Granted, I would think OP would recognize an RNG loss for what it is, but you never know.
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Bad bait.
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This is not a biased post in any way whatsoever
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Balanced perks, for every positive there is an equal negative. Too often DLC releases with a new perk selection which gives one side a great perk and the other side gets three new perks which do bupkiss.
I'm curious, do you mean for this to be universal or is this specifically targeted for killers? I ask because of the things you said previously, where you feel survivors need more help and killers need a reduction in performance.
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I think the game is actually pretty well balanced, maybe slightly Killer sided in some ways but that's how it should be in a 4v1.
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Remove Killer human players and replace them with bots
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LMAO. Stating hours mean much in this game of all things! I've gone against less than 1k hour survivors that are cracked because they went out of their way to absorb information from outside sources and 8k hour survivor's who offer nothing to me in terms of skill. This game isn't hard. Survivor macro is mediocre to learn and only looping is hard. Killer macro is medicore to learn and the micro is near non existent on most killers. People in this game weigh hours too heavily as if it means something other than an indicator, quite similar to prestige in that way. If the player never went out of their way to improve or lacks talent or simply never got into video games before dbd hours mean nothing.
You can give so many people years of only dbd only for them to come out decent, your hours mean nothing. Saying the "math adds up here" is just funny. Your hours in the game don't = facts in any capacity after 1k.
But then again I come from league where the standard is far far higher than dbd ever will be. But I feel for you if your first semi-competitive game was dbd.
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I would make gen time escalate with the number of survivors left in the trial. The reason killers tunnel is because 4 survivors working on gens is faster than 3. If gen speed was slower when four people are alive, and then faster with 3 people and even faster with 2 people, killers would be so incentivized to get someone out of the game quickly.
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You lost me at "With 6000 hours in it is so obvious the game is unbalanced and killer sided".
If you have 6000 hours in dbd and you think is killer side, or you're absolute trash, or you never played killer in your life (or maybe 2 match).
I played solo survivor, the problem is that other survs are trash. When the killer chase me, I keep him for a very long time, and I kept the killer for 5 gens in multiple matches. Also, when I play with my friends in swf, we win 90% of games, why? Because we are strong and we know how to play. Soloq survivors are 99% trash, I never found a soloq surv who was actually good in something. They waste time, open chests, break dull totem. But the problem is that killers are too strong (lol no), not that they waste time.
I give you the same advice that I give to everyone who say that the game is killer side. Try playing only killer every day at least 4 hours per day, reach high mmr and try to win against strong squads without tunneling and proxy camping. Obviously play every killer, not only nurse or blight, play them all. Let's see if after you reach top mmr you want to play killer again. If you want more proves that the game is surv side, go watch every patch that came out last year. Only nerfs to gen regression, and toolboxes, prove thyself and bnp still here. Also, they added a new gen speed perk with the skull merchant chapter ("friendly competition" of Thalita) and buffed Overzealous, so I don't see the Devs intention to block genrush, instead I see more Devs intending to counter tunneling without understanding that people tunnel because if the surv's goal goes fast, the killer's goal must go hand in hand or be more quick to win.
If you want to discuss, I have lots of idea on how to balance the game, but this forum isn't the right place to talk. It's full of shitheads who don't understand a thing about the game and talk anyway, probably having 200 hours
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Lmao you came here to post your opinion on the game's balance, and then don't want to see anyone who disagrees with you, because you live in delusion that your opinions are facts? And all because they are based on stats that the devs themselves said you shouldn't take for granted when it comes to the game's balance?
The game is not killer sided, and your opinion that it is killer sided is not a fact at all. Whether you want to accept that or not.
How about another fact though. Currently queue times for survivors are worse on average than killer.
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Op really tried to argue with me because the logic didn't add up. Wild honestly
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That's what I'm saying. The math isn't mathing
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Last week I looped a Demo on Grim Pantry for all 5 gens. I only used 2 pallets to do so. I could tell Demo had NOED, but fortunately I had Hope. ...unfortunately, I grazed a column under the Pantry, and medium vaulted a window into a down.
One mistake. The Demo ended that game with 3 kills.
It's really hard to seriously consider any comment about which side this game is balanced towards, when the truth of the matter is that matchmaking is abysmal. Not only was I playing in a lobby in which it took a Killer over 5 minutes to catch me, but I was playing in a lobby in which it took that same Killer less than 15 seconds to catch my teammates.
That isn't a skill gap. That's a freaking canyon.
I didn't belong in a lobby with any of them, and the end result says absolutely nothing about my skill as a survivor.
How are we supposed to balance the game when we don't even know what an evenly matched game looks like?
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I would do a bunch of things for both sides. My goals would be to make the game more fun and balanced for low level survivor players to have a good time, completely remove camping as a strategy, and completely remove tunneling as a strategy. I would also make sure to balance the game in general around high level players, so SWF kill squads don't roll killers constantly. Depending on how the data works out after the changes are made, i may consider creating a separate queue for SWF and solo that actually balances the game differently (different gen times, different killer/survivor tweaks etc.)
So, keeping those goals in mind, basically eliminating as much of the unfun elements (for both sides) and balancing the game for high level players while keeping in mind the fun for low level players, here are the changes i would make (i'll go into detail later):
- Rework Totems (Hexes and boons)
- 5th perk slot for both sides
- Remove camping from the game
- Remove tunneling from the game.
- Rework Mori system
- Rework Generator repair mechanics
- Rework God Pallets
- Rework Bloodlust
- Buff/rework weaker killers
- Rework nurse
- Rework Freddy
- Rework problematic addons (tombstone etc)
1. Rework Totems
There are basically 3 problems with totems (both hexes and boons) right now.
- Hex totems are either completely useless, or too powerful due to RNG and totem placement.
- Boons are permanent
- Many boons and hexes aren't worth the perk slot
I would fix this in several ways.
- Hex totems are completely reworked. When the killer equips a Hex perk. ALL Dull totems become "Hex" totems. Every Hex perk is reworked to be on a token system that increases the power of the totem based on how many tokens the killer has. The tokens are equal to the number of Totems still on the map. This will do a couple of things. Basically, if survivors spawn on top of a totem, or a totem is in a bad spot, you aren't completely gutted by RNG with a useless perk slot. Additionally, if the survivors now survivors can do a totem and weaken the hex perk significantly, meaning before, they had to find a single totem and the rest were useless. Now, you can at least cleanse any totem you see, and weaken the killer's power.
- This would obviously need to come with heavy changes to every hex perk, as well as probably total reworks of NOED, Haunted Ground, Plaything, pentimento etc.
- Boons now work off a token system. Survivors start with 3 tokens and can spend them to boon a totem, once they are out of tokens they can't boon anymore.
- Now that boons aren't permanent, you can go and buff a bunch of the useless (most of them) ones.
2. 5th perk slot for both sides
This one would come with a big balance change to a bunch of perks as well, but basically, i think they should create a 5th perk that can only hold what we might call a "super perk" or "ultimate perk" or something like that, both sides would have access to this.
Then, we go and rework a ton of gen regression perks for the killers to be really strong and ultimate perks. Generally a gen regression perk should, on average, increase the amount of time on gens by 1.5 gens.
For survivors, this could be where exhaustion perks go along with some others, and a few buffs to them.
3. Remove camping from the game
This would actually be done at the same time as tunneling and would involve the same mechanic. So read #4.
4. Remove tunneling from the game
Removing camping and tunneling is done the same way, and would require some changes.
- Kobe is no longer a thing (except for deliverance, and then rework the luck mechanic).
- Survivors can no longer let themselves die on second stage, failing a skill check now gives you a generator repair "debt" of 5% for each skill check missed. This means that when you repair the generator, you won't actually add any progress until this debt is paid off. (could switch it to some other mechanic, but basically should have a decent punishment for missing the skillchecks that isn't killing your team.
- Survivors now share the 1st hook state with their team. This means that if you hard tunnel out a single survivor, you would have to hook them 4 times (to get through the teams shared hook states) and 2 more times to get through the survivors own hook states. This will do a couple of things.
- tunneling is no longer an effective strategy, because you will leave 3 other survivors time to gens for 6 full hook states.
- Camping is no longer an effective strategy, for the same reason.
- Survivors who aren't as good at the game will get more chances.
- Survivors won't feel cheated out of a "chance" if their team "wastes" all of their hook states, because only 1 hook state is shared, and the rest are unique to that survivor.
5. Rework the mori system
This is more for a fun thing but, just make the yellow mori offering base kit, you can mori the last living survivor. Then you can start selling mori cosmetics to get new mori animations. Would have almost 0 impact on gameplay, because if you down that last living survivor you are almost certainly in 99.99% of cases going to kill them anyway, and i think the fun aspect outweighs the 0.01% of the time it would give the killer a kill that they wouldn't have before.
6. Rework Generator repair mechanics
Basically, i think they got generator repair speeds backwards. Right now, survivors repair a gen at 90 seconds, or 1 charge per second, where generators have 90 charges. But when 2 survivors repair a generator, they both receive a 15% penalty to their gen repair times. This means that:
1 survivor: 90 seconds
2 survivors: (0.85 + 0.85 charges per second) 52.9 seconds
and so on.
The reality is, they have this backwards, this actually encourages survivors to spread out, instead of group up, which makes it hard on the killer. Also, newer players tend to group up on instinct, meaning they will actually be doing the less efficient thing. I think we should flip this on its head by doing the following:
Generators now take 180 seconds to repair (just hear me out for a second).
Every survivor working on a generator, will increase their repair speed by 10% each. Meaning:
1 Survivor: 180 seconds
2 Survivors: 80 seconds
3 Survivors: 50 seconds
4 Survivors: 35 seconds
THEN
We add a "generator part" mechanic, where gen parts will be scattered around the map, and if you find a generator part, the furthest generator from your current location is highlighted, when repairing that generator, a few things happen:
- Your repair speed while working on that specific generator is increased by: 100% (generator will take 90 seconds)
- Other survivors will be unable to repair the generator with you.
- Rework gen progression perks, like prove thyself and toolboxes/brand new parts
This would do several things.
- Survivors would no longer be punished for grouping up, and actually would be incentivized to do so.
- If a survivor wanted to go off on their own, they can, but need to find a generator part first.
- This creates an interesting gameplay mechanic where if you are playing against a killer you'd want to group up against for some reason, you can, or you can split up, but both require some thought.
- You could start designing new perks for both sides around this mechanic.
7. Rework God Pallets
God pallets should not exist, every pallet should be mindgameable by an m1 killer, and we should increase the number of pallets on every map by probably around 50%.
8. Rework Bloodlust
Now that God pallets are gone, killers could force a down with bloodlust much easier, so the mechanic should be completely reworked. My proposal would be to make it so:
- Every time you injure a survivor without downing them, you gain a stack of bloodlust.
- At 3 stacks of bloodlust, the next time you would injure a survivor, down them instead.
- Downing a survivor by any means will remove bloodlust.
- Bloodlust can be removed by stunning or blinding the killer.
This would increase lethality if survivors spend a bunch of time grouping up and encourage you to split pressure instead of tunnel one guy out. Additionally, it counters the healing meta without completely destroying every perk. It specifically is designed to happen on "injure" so it works with killer's powers. But some rework to legion would likely be needed, along with some potential changes to killers like wraith.
9. Buff/Rework weaker killers.
This one is mostly self-explanatory, but i would make the changes above, then start doing balance changes to killers, prioritizing reworking the really OP ones, and the really UP ones and squish into the middle over time.
10. Rework Nurse.
Self-explanatory, as a nurse main, she needs a total rework to be balanced.
11. Rework Freddy.
One of the more boring killers, bring back old freddy and just balance him better.
12. Rework problematic addons (tombstone etc)
Again, self-explanatory.
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