Raising/Removing the 8k bloodpoint limit per category
An example: As a survivor, I get tunneled the entire match so I only get little over 8k bloodpoints. If it wasn't for the bloodpoints limit, it could be double the amount.
If a good killer decides to tunnel, there really isn't anything that you can do as a survivor against it so I feel it would be adequate if you could at least earn more points.
When you play survivor you have to adapt to the situation you are confronted with. You also can't say: "Hey, I've reached max points in Altruism, therefore I will stop helping teammates and now do some gens instead."
My suggestion would be to remove the 8k-per-category limit and just use the overall limit of 32k (or at least raise the 8k limit significantly). What do you guys think?
Comments
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You could try winning the chase... just saying.
Alternatively, the grind could be eased up so that 8000 is somewhat significant. However, removing the cap will just lead to relentless farming, and you do not want that.3 -
I agree. part of the reason why its easier to get BP overall as killer is because for the most part all 4 categories are very natural to how they are designed (with the exception of the pig, her deviousness is abysmal) vs the survivors needing to really focus on categories to get gains in them (and survival being an awfully designed category overall.) And yes I know killer is harder than survivor, and addons get lost win or lose, but the current split in BP categories leads a lot of survivors to make very selfish bad plays just to boost their own points gain in multiple categories.
My recommendation would be to have excess points spill over into a "half gain" pool, where they accumulate at half the normal rate. This pool can then be added postgame to the suvivor's score, up to a combined total of 32k. This way survivors feel less punished for getting tunnelled so hard they never get to touch a gen, or punished for being the only one actually working on gens for their team. It wouldn't change anything in terms of balance, and the diminished return would deter farming.
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@Orion said:
You could try winning the chase... just saying.As I mentioned in the OP: A good killer won't lose the survivor. It's just a matter of time until the survivor gets downed.
@Orion said:
However, removing the cap will just lead to relentless farming, and you do not want that.There would still be an overall cap of 32k which isn't different to the current situation. Those players that want to farm are already playing farming games.
And this change would not only apply to survivors but killers as well.
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I'm fine with the DS trolls having a cap on a BP category for not playing the rest of the game. Thanks.2
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@NoShinyPony said:
@Orion said:
You could try winning the chase... just saying.As I mentioned in the OP: A good killer won't lose the survivor. It's just a matter of time until the survivor gets downed.
Then you just gotta take the loss. How would losses matter if they were no different from wins?
@NoShinyPony said:
@Orion said:
However, removing the cap will just lead to relentless farming, and you do not want that.There would still be an overall cap of 32k which isn't different to the current situation. Those players that want to farm are already playing farming games.
And this change would not only apply to survivors but killers as well.
Sorry, I misread what you wrote. That might work, I suppose.
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I love this 32k Idea. It was a wrong assumption with the 8k system that you could only be valuable through evening out your role instead of specialising.
Do know that the category specific BP offerings currently would have to be nerfed slightly as they could produce an unintended amount BP gained with the improved system, but you have my vote.
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@Tzeentchling9 said:
I'm fine with the DS trolls having a cap on a BP category for not playing the rest of the game. Thanks.I'm neither using DS nor trolling. When I play surv I'm just doing my job and try not to get downed for as long as possible.
This problem is not exclusive to Boldness/juking. You can also reach the cap easily in Objective or Altruism, dependent on how the game is going.
The current 8k cap can also be a problem for killers.
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That is why there are caps in the categories though. So players have to participate in multiple aspects of the match.0
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
I love this 32k Idea. It was a wrong assumption with the 8k system that you could only be valuable through evening out your role instead of specialising.Do know that the category specific BP offerings currently would have to be nerfed slightly as they could produce an unintended amount BP gained with the improved system, but you have my vote.
The category based BP boost offerings are flawed as hell to begin with. As it stands they only have a possibility of earning 1k/2.5k/3k respectively, and thats based off of an 8k score in said category. more often than not, the player doesn't get back a profit or even the amount of BPs they had to invest into it in the first place (especially with Survival, whose realistic intervals are either 0, 800, or 5k)
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@Orion said:
Then you just gotta take the loss. How would losses matter if they were no different from wins?Bloodpoints don't define a win or loss anymore. The emblems decide on that.
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@NoShinyPony said:
@Orion said:
Then you just gotta take the loss. How would losses matter if they were no different from wins?Bloodpoints don't define a win or loss anymore. The emblems decide on that.
I was actually referring to you dying. My point remains - how would losses matter if they were no different from wins? If you get chased the entire trial because you can't win the chase, you're not going to pip anyway. If you pip, you usually made a decent amount of BP.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
Do know that the category specific BP offerings currently would have to be nerfed slightly as they could produce an unintended amount BP gained with the improved systemThat's a good point, thanks for bringing it up!
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The category based BP boost offerings are flawed as hell to begin with. As it stands they only have a possibility of earning 1k/2.5k/3k respectively, and thats based off of an 8k score in said category. more often than not, the player doesn't get back a profit or even the amount of BPs they had to invest into it in the first place (especially with Survival, whose realistic intervals are either 0, 800, or 5k)
You take the words right out of my mouth. Survival is indeed in fact the most flawed category as one of the main ways of scoring points (besides surviving + struggeling) is escaping the killer's grasp, which isn't something that should happen too often and something that you can't control.
The Trap escape was the 2nd way of receiving points, but a lot of killers have since been released.
Maybe OP could save us some time and include the better BP reward system too as part of this post (:
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@Tzeentchling9 said:
That is why there are caps in the categories though. So players have to participate in multiple aspects of the match.You often don't have a choice. You have to adapt to the current situation. As an example, survivors can't stop helping their mates just because the Altruism category has reached its max.
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@Ryuhi said:
The category based BP boost offerings are flawed as hell to begin with. As it stands they only have a possibility of earning 1k/2.5k/3k respectively, and thats based off of an 8k score in said category.Yes, the BP boost offerings should get another overwork.
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How about keeping the limit of total points (32k) while removing the category limit. So even if u farm the ######### out of the match, u end up with 32k points maxOrion said:You could try winning the chase... just saying.
Alternatively, the grind could be eased up so that 8000 is somewhat significant. However, removing the cap will just lead to relentless farming, and you do not want that.0 -
@DwightsLifeMatters said:
How about keeping the limit of total points (32k) while removing the category limit. So even if u farm the ######### out of the match, u end up with 32k points maxYeah, that's what the OP was suggesting. I misread it.
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@NoShinyPony said:
@Tzeentchling9 said:
That is why there are caps in the categories though. So players have to participate in multiple aspects of the match.You often don't have a choice. You have to adapt to the current situation. As an example, survivors can't stop helping their mates just because the Altruism category has reached its max.
As a matter of fact, it promotes the opposite. A lot of survivors tend to rush altruism as fast as possible since it has more limited possibility than objective and boldness (you can accumulate objective FAST by working on the same gen as another person, but you can't co-unhook a survivor) And then after 1-3 unhooks, they switch focuses and ignore going for saves because they already got theirs. Therefore the impact is twofold: it causes them to focus a category that is deemed "harder" as time goes on, while also ignoring focus on the other aspects of the match.
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@Orion said:
I was actually referring to you dying. My point remains - how would losses matter if they were no different from wins?Dying also doesn't define if you win or lose. A survivor can pip/win while still dying. A killer can pip while killing less than 3 people. That is how the game is currently made. Please let's not dicuss the winning conditions here, this is not what this specific thread is for. (If you'd like to discuss this topic more in detail, we can open another thread.)
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@NoShinyPony said:
@Orion said:
I was actually referring to you dying. My point remains - how would losses matter if they were no different from wins?Dying also doesn't define if you win or lose. A survivor can pip/win while still dying. A killer can pip while killing less than 3 people. That is how the game is currently made. Please let's not dicuss the winning conditions here, this is not what this specific thread is for. (If you'd like to discuss this topic more in detail, we can open another thread.)
Why did you cut out the rest of my comment?
"If you get chased the entire trial because you can't win the chase, you're not going to pip anyway. If you pip, you usually made a decent amount of BP."
No, neither BP nor surviving have any direct correlation to pipping, but actions that lead you to pipping also involve gaining BP and surviving. Get it?0 -
@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
Maybe OP could save us some time and include the better BP reward system too as part of this post (:Done.
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Stop being so toxic and defending everything scummyOrion said:You could try winning the chase... just saying.
Alternatively, the grind could be eased up so that 8000 is somewhat significant. However, removing the cap will just lead to relentless farming, and you do not want that.0 -
@The_Crusader said:
Stop being so toxic and defending everything scummyWhat do you think you're going to accomplish by lying about me, exactly? I'm just curious.
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@Orion said:
Why did you cut out the rest of my comment?Let's not derail this thread. It's about bloodpoints. If you want to discuss winning or pipping conditions, let's open another thread.
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@NoShinyPony said:
@Orion said:
Why did you cut out the rest of my comment?Let's not derail this thread. It's about bloodpoints. If you want to discuss winning or pipping conditions, let's open another thread.
I wasn't discussing winning or pipping conditions. I was explaining how, regardless of how you personally define a win, this suggestion would effectively remove the difference between winning and losing by essentially having the same result for both situations.
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Not a lie, you defend tunneling yet again and respond with what is basically "git gud"Orion said:@The_Crusader said:
Stop being so toxic and defending everything scummyWhat do you think you're going to accomplish by lying about me, exactly? I'm just curious.
What do you think that will accomplish? You think they haven't tried to win chases? You think that idea never occured to them?1 -
@The_Crusader said:
Not a lie, you defend tunneling yet again and respond with what is basically "git gud"What do you think that will accomplish? You think they haven't tried to win chases? You think that idea never occured to them?
Definitely a lie since I'm not defending anything.
I think they didn't try things that might actually work and gave up halfway through because they were tired of losing chases. Now they're expecting to be rewarded for not being able to win chases.
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@Ryuhi said:
As a matter of fact, it promotes the opposite. A lot of survivors tend to rush altruism as fast as possible since it has more limited possibility than objective and boldness (you can accumulate objective FAST by working on the same gen as another person, but you can't co-unhook a survivor) And then after 1-3 unhooks, they switch focuses and ignore going for saves because they already got theirs. Therefore the impact is twofold: it causes them to focus a category that is deemed "harder" as time goes on, while also ignoring focus on the other aspects of the match.From my experience, the majority of survivors don't act that much on what brings bloodpoints but on what needs to be done in the current situation of a match.
I think it's similar to killer: If Deviousness has reached its max, the killer usually won't stop using their special ability.
Edit: At the moment, the game stops rewarding good actions and I believe it shouldn't be this way.
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If the cap were removed, I would play as Doctor and the games would never end.
Just saying...0 -
@Supernaut said:
If the cap were removed, I would play as Doctor and the games would never end.
Just saying...But how would you ever enjoy your treasury of blood-points if the game never ends?
Sounds like a double edged sword to me.
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100% agree with the OP. It's not even just about the guy getting tunneled either. If the rest of your team is messing around with the killer, someone has to do the dirty job of repairing all the generators. The guy who fixes 4 or 5 gens deserves more than 8k.
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NoShinyPony said:
@Orion said:
You could try winning the chase... just saying.As I mentioned in the OP: A good killer won't lose the survivor. It's just a matter of time until the survivor gets downed.
I do not think so. in the game there are many pallets, so a survivor can travel the entire map distracting the killer while others make a gen rush, and finish the game.
Survivors dont need more BP, they need less BP per actions like pallet camping (the killer has one penalty for camping the hook, and the survivors?), looping (the same thing with hook camping). Thats the point.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@Supernaut said:
If the cap were removed, I would play as Doctor and the games would never end.
Just saying...But how would you ever enjoy your treasury of blood-points if the game never ends?
Sounds like a double edged sword to me.
Well, I'm sure I would some time; a man's gotta eat!
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@Supernaut said:
If the cap were removed, I would play as Doctor and the games would never end.
Just saying...Haha, good one. But I mentioned in the OP that the overall cap of 32k should remain.
And don't forget: For farming, you need survivors willing to farm. At some point they would just leave through the exit gates.0 -
I'd say change the category cap to 10k but leave total cap at 32k.
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@TranquiBoy said:
I do not think so. in the game there are many pallets, so a survivor can travel the entire map distracting the killer while others make a gen rush, and finish the game.You are talking about keeping a killer busy and I agree with that: Depending on map spawn and the killer, a survivor can keep a killer busy a long time. That was what I was referring to in the OP.
@TranquiBoy said:
Survivors dont need more BP, they need less BP per actions like pallet camping (the killer has one penalty for camping the hook, and the survivors?), looping (the same thing with hook camping).Killers don't have a BP penalty for camping. And looping is a core mechanic of the game and therefore needs to be rewarded with BP.
My suggestion in the OP refers to everyone: The survivors who juke, the survivors who are forced to only do gens and the killers.
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Perrsonally I like this idea. I do gens so much sometimes that it says max, you ain't getting anymore points from this. I'm like i just want outta here half the time so I keep on working. I'm always tempted to give up and find the killer too.
The current bloodpoint cap forces you to change your style based on how spread your points in each category need to be. Not necessarily good for team games.0 -
@Might_Oakk said:
I'd say change the category cap to 10k but leave total cap at 32k.Yes, leave the total cap at 32k.
But I would either remove the 8k entirely or raise the cap significantly. I'm afraid if the cap gets raised by just 2k, that doesn't help enough with the problem.1 -
Id make it to 10 per category0
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@Supernaut said:
If the cap were removed, I would play as Doctor and the games would never end.
Just saying...But how would you ever enjoy your treasury of blood-points if the game never ends?
Sounds like a double edged sword to me.
At some point the survivors DC and the game is over
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