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Nemesis Is Extremely Boring
If I had the choice to prevent ever facing a single killer, Nemesis would be the easiest choice in the world. No counterplay against a slightly competent Nemesis. Zombies just walking into your loop with no counterplay. Nemesis just holding out his whip when you get to a pallet and always getting value with the hit or with the broken pallet.
"B-but he's low tier" Legion at release was absolutely garbage yet was universally hated for the same reason I hate Nemesis.
"B-but it takes 3 hits to down you" It could take 20 hits to down and every interaction would still be boring.
"Huntress, Deathslinger, and Pyramid Head have projectiles" Huntress and Deathslinger both are 110 speed and is arguably more punishing for the player if they miss a hit. Pyramid Head is 115, but you can actually react to his attack and it takes a few frames to come out.
"Just juke it" No good projectile killer is gonna miss when Survivors press the A and D key. Reacting when movement is so limited is very easy. I used to main Deathslinger when he came out so I know that hitting those shots isnt hard, especially when Nemesis has a lingering hitbox.
"Just crouch behind the loop" Not only does that not always protect you, the Nemesis can just keep his whip out and keeping walking through the loop until you commit to an action. Can't stay crouched forever.
I have like 150 cakes on Nemesis that will stay there forever because I refuse to have such mind numbing chases.
Comments
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No hate towards Nemesis players. You do you. I just need to vent.
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I don't like facing a good nemesis either.. but i feel you haven't played against many Skull merchants right?
Before we fix any killer we have to get rid of her first.
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I just recently got back into the game after a 6 month break. I've played maybe 30 games and haven't gotten her yet. Idk what she does, but I've seen the complaints lol
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Oh boy, you'll miss those nemesis matches, trust.
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Oof. Yh thankfully she's rarely played. Basically she is a 3 gen machine. Puts up drones Round gens that slowly expose a surv and gives her stealth. Plus she can track survs in the aoe
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I mean, isnt she is a very weak m1 killer?
If you think about it, at worst she can expose you through drones, but then again whats so different from Legion for example, his power also effectively exposing you? Or from Plague, where you have 1 health state too? Why drones gets so much respect from survivors?
I dont understand
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Never said she's strong, she's boring to point of death. she doesn't play dbd she plays camp 3 gen from 0:001 seconds until your team dies or gives up, that's not dbd that's being annoying and wasting time for people.
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have you tried repairing generators? I remind you that the survivors progress 16 times faster than the killer, just repair all 3 generators and heal
else she will gradually lose or she will be forced to drop the generators to make a down
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I encourage you to play nemesis and see for yourself how utterly weak you can feel.The requirement of hitting 3 times means you are spending 90% of your chase catching up,at loops or even in the open whips are seldom guaranteed.He can only do so while you are in an animation,else his hitbox is so narrow you can dodge it quite consistently.
Even more counterplay can be found in his early game.At tier 1 he feels like the worst killer in the game.If you hit a survivor you just give them a speed boost.They can pre drop you just like a clown.You have to hit 2 different survivors to tier up(so 2 rough chases).
His zombies are weird.You can have a match where zombie screw you over and feel opressive,but other times they can even mess with the killer(they can bodyblock him).
If you play him for over 20 matches i assure you,you will have a greater respect and more fun facing him.His whip is a fun mindgame similar to huntress,if you can't dodge it to a decent degree then thats a skill issue.
He is low tier,however his chase isn't.His early game is rough,and his ability to pressure the map is limited.A strong chase is his strong suit,thats to be expected.
A good phead will use his power as a zoning tool or on guaranteed hits.He is also a top tier tunneler and doesn't need to hit you 1 million times.If you don't find him stronger then you are facing weak killers and you are inexperienced.
Your crouching argument makes no sesnse.If i jump over a Long wall or shack nemesis either whips me and can't hit me,or i simply walk away while he is holding it out.He is significantly slower,and it takes him a good second before he can interact with the window again.Keeping the whip out while walking around the window is something i've never seen done as a successful strategy,since it would take him forever to catch up.
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This. I can't remember the last time I agreed with 100% of a post and I've been lurking on the forums for years.
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I basically feel the same way about Knight and Trickster. Every time I have to play against either, I just fume with salt.
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I agree; I just repair gens against Skull Merchant and ignore the drones. She's weaker than Legion and Plague at pallets and windows. She will know where I am but so will Legion due to Killer Instinct and eventually you have to do gens closeby the Killer anyway if you want to escape. Also, if I have Resilience, why bother healing unless I have to unhook against a camping Killer? There are other stronger Killers you have to get used to being injured around and if you are injured the exposed condition does nothing.
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mhhhhm, I see where you're coming from.
I love to play as Nemo (Zombies go zoooooooooom - and yes, I throw entire matches just to line Norman and Sandra up in a way that I get a Whip-into-Norman-into-Sandra-down) --- but I hate to go against Nemo. Oddly enough, I somehow haven't figured out how to go against a good Nemo myself; I know what that player is doing and what my options are (because survs who know how to deal with Nemo do it against me all the time 😂)... but I smh fail miserably in the execution stage. Overthinking, maybe.
Anyway. I think for Nemo it's quite all or nothing similar to Oni; if Nemo gets to tier 2 within seconds of starting the match (Lethal + one tapping two survs that spawned together) and there doesn't happen to be a pro-Nemo-looper on the team, chances are it's ggs right then and there.
So that first chase is very important. He'll shred through pallets eventually anyway so feel free to throw them generously while he can't whip-destroy them.
There are certain tiles that are relatively safe (as far as the whip goes) while he's in T1 and T2. - In T3 the speed buff makes nearly everything you need to vault as surv unsafe.
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I don’t dislike Nemesis as much as I just dislike zombies. I wish they’d been included in the light interaction update aka making the ability to temporarily immobilize them basekit in some way rather than it being tied to flashlights (but not kill them, that should be reserved for pallets). Continue fixing their bugs with getting stuck and all that (which BHVR has been doing lately), and maybe even increase their speed a little in return.
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I do feel like nemesis's whip hitbox is pretty jank. I've had times I've cleared a jump and he whips where i was never at and the hit would still trigger:/
Legion and skull merchant are the most annoying killers to face to me and I don't desire to face them. Legion is naturally annoying but I feel like I get a Legion game every third game I play and that gets extra old
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"I do feel like nemesis's whip hitbox is pretty jank. I've had times I've cleared a jump and he whips where i was never at and the hit would still trigger:/"
That's because Nemesis can "drag" his tentacle hitbox, so, in reality, it almost never matches with his visual (blue thing)
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It sounds like your not playing aginst him correctly. If your getting hit at every pallet because hit tentacle is up don't drop the pallet. 9/10 times your going to make another loop. Zombies really shouldn't be a problem because if there that close you need to leave the loop earlier.
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I strongly disagree. And when watching streamers, I love when they go against "nemo". There's a lot of cool fakes and ways to juke his tentacle, crouching, etc. I think the only people who hate Nemesis are ones who want to drop a pallet and tbag. If you're one of those, well, Nemesis is just Karma.
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What if the Nemesis just reacts and hits the juke? Its not that hard. Like I said about crouching, they can just keep walking around the loop until the survivor commits to an action.
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Yeah that seems problematic. If that's what that actually want to be the case it would be nice tochave the visual match it
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You're describing pretty much all mind games. You're describing game theory. Yes what if he jukes, but you anticipate the juke, but he anticipates that you'd anticipate the juke. It's just the video game, man.
This is all about extending chases. If a decent killer is on you, you're going to go down. But extending chase another 5 seconds every time you make him waste a tentacle is how your team does 5 gens before he hooks people 3 times.
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Nemesis is absolutely counterable in a number of ways. There are guides all over via a quick search on Google to help and assist.
Although a killer is counterable, it does not mean it should be counterable 100% of the time. If there is a fool-proof way of countering with that sort of success then there's a bad design fault with that killer. No killer should ever be completely counterable.
I'm not here to say what is and isn't subjectively boring for anyone, but to claim he's uncounterable is simply false.
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Its not mind games, its just reaction time and aim. If he uses his fast attack with a lingering hitbox effectively, you can never evade it.
I don't care if someone better than me kills me, I care about if there's counterplay to what they're doing. Yes, gen rushing release Legion was easy because they were horrible, but there was absolutely no counterplay in chase so the games were extremely boring. Winning isn't as important as the fun of the game.
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This is very detailed, thank you.
In your opinion what made the number of Nemesis (Nemeses?) become smaller in games? This is what I've been experiencing (Europe, GMT+1).
Can it be that by nerfing Eruption a lot of people just don't trust this killer anymore?
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My guess is as good as yours.I'm a killer main so i don't have that much experience regarding killer playrates,i am playing on the same region and similar time zone though.
Personally i stopped playing him after i got a proper taste of stronger killers.Going from blight,a killer who removes distance as a concept to a killer where all you do is playing catch up is exhausting.
I do believe eruption made a difference in his play rate,but i don't believe it was that significant. Nemesis has always been a fun killer,from a renowned franchise,so i would assume most killer mains already owned him when it was discovered how expressive eruption was.
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Tbf those little bastards can sneak up on you while you're focused on the big guy.
As for the topic, I'm not sure what to tell you. He absolutely can be countered. Obviously the better the Nemmy the harder it will be. He's still very much loop able though.
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Because it's not all about winning. It's about having a fun game.
Take face camping Bubba. Easy solution: the other three survivors stay on gens. You'll get 2 or 3 out, guaranteed.
Skull merchant: split up to opposite ends of the 3 gen, 2 survivors on each, heal if you need it.
Yeah, great, survivors win, but who in the world wants to play a game like that?
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I feel the same when I get spirit, dull merchant, mend simulator and knight instant upset lol.
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Ultimate Counterpoint: hearing him say "S.T.A.R.S." is one of the best thing in the entire game
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