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If the entity lost control over the realm

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Bill_I_Am__Overbeck
Bill_I_Am__Overbeck Member Posts: 312
edited May 2023 in Lore

What killer would likely take over control?


I'd say either Pinhead or Pyramid Head.


You?

Post edited by Rizzo on

Comments

  • Smoe
    Smoe Member Posts: 2,470
    edited May 2023
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    None of them.

    The fog itself and it's many realms are part of the entity itself and without the entity's presence and control over it all, those realms would collapse and perish.

  • IWasLeft2Die
    IWasLeft2Die Member Posts: 2,405
    edited May 2023
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    Possibly myers tbh. If I remember his lore correctly the entity wasn't able to manipulate myers at all whereas all the other were submissive to the entity eventually.


    Hes not a leader type but I don't think anyone would be able to control him if the entity couldn't

  • SMitchell8
    SMitchell8 Member Posts: 3,292
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    Think the big players would group up tbh and take over. Pin Head probably in charge with PH, Nemesis, Oni, Knight, Wesker as underlings/enforcers.

  • Smoe
    Smoe Member Posts: 2,470
    edited May 2023
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    His lore is literally just a recap of his origin story from the original Halloween and nothing more.

  • Nirgendwohin
    Nirgendwohin Member Posts: 1,251
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    The almighty SWF.

  • 09SHARKBOSS
    09SHARKBOSS Member Posts: 1,157
    edited May 2023
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  • AetherBytes
    AetherBytes Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 2,987
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    This is the in-lore reason why he has access to Mori addons. He just doesnt listen to the entity, and him hooking survivors is a happy accident that sometimes happens.

  • jajay119
    jajay119 Member Posts: 872
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    I think Freddy given his innate ability to already control a realm of his own.

  • AssortedSorting
    AssortedSorting Member Posts: 954
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    If The Architect of the Trials for whatever reason disappeared or ceased using the Trials to siphon the Auric Energy from The Entity, leaving the Trials behind, this is (first take on) what I'd write to happen:

    Excess Auric Energy buildup around The Architects Siphons would occur, primarily causing Blight formations in The Basement and around Hooks as Survivors get Hooked in a Realm, but their memories of pain are unable to be siphoned. (Game-wise this could tie into the End-Game Collapse starting as a result of getting several Hooks as a Killer)

    Survivors and Killers slowly have their previously suppressed Ego returned, or filled in by the excess Auric Energy intertwining with their memories. This returns the social capability and (likely) dampens the Kill/Survive drive amplified in characters. (Hello voice-lines.)

     Survivors and Killers would no longer be shuffled around Realms when the Trial ends or they Escape. Killers would be left in whatever Realm they are in, Survivors would stay in the forest in the Void (if that's even where they ended up after traversing the Fog outside the Exit Gates). These Realms however would also no longer be "restocked", and would likely be ravaged by the EGC "reset".

    Survivors would no longer be dredged up from the Void, at least, not in an "intelligent" manner now. If there was a PvE portion to this game, the constant unchecked dredging of the Void would be the reason behind void monsters coming for characters.

    The Entity's Realm is its own dimension and an infinite fractal across the omniverse. The Architects sub-domain is also a fractal, and their Tools now open to all who were once their experiment.



    In my opinion, anyone willing to reverse engineer the nature of Auric Energy, and the Architects Tools, would be able to make claim to a new sub-domain. If they used the Architects Tools, they would also be connected to anyone else using the Tools from an Auric connection, having easy access to one another (for good or ill). Some might try exploring the Entities Realm, likely forever being lost.


    This all sounds optimistic, but don't forget that in the Entities Realm your loves and more specifically your fears, will become manifest, in a literal sense. And boy howdy fear has a really nasty feedback loop.

  • That_One_Friend
    That_One_Friend Member Posts: 273
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    Not taking killer strength into account and rather just lore: probably Wesker, Blight, or Pinhead. I saw people say Oni, but wasnt Oni's whole plot just him killing false samurai? Michael just kills people, I wouldn't see him taking over realms, per say. Pinhead I could, see. Maybe SM? Since she lures people into a certain place and hunts them? IIRC Pyramid Head just torments people afflicted with guilt? (Im not a big Silent Hill fan, pls correct me if im wrong)

  • Smoe
    Smoe Member Posts: 2,470
    edited May 2023
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    Where in the lore is there talk about an Architect of the Trials other than the Entity?

    As far as i'm aware from having read the lore, The Entity itself is the only thing that actually creates the trials themselves.

  • chatgiraffe
    chatgiraffe Member Posts: 113
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    None of them. The Trials and such arn't actual places that the Entity uses, they literally ARE the Entity shapeshifting into the ground, walls, objects, gens, pallets, etc.

    If the Entity were to, through some deus ex machina bullshit stop existing (PiH, PyH, Myers, etc. dont stand a chance btw) then everyone would either be lost in a void between dimensions, or get kicked out back to where they belong.

  • AssortedSorting
    AssortedSorting Member Posts: 954
    edited May 2023
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    Been a while since I've read through the recent archives.

    This is from a worldbuilding standpoint that doesn't require the writers to shoehorn themselves into a box with having a human mind controlling every facet of the Trials (and said logic of why/how are the Trials constructed), and can allow for more explorative writing down the road.

    The Entity is a "Horror Dimension Eldritch Being", where it's quite literally the idea of fear, if it weren't just an emotion. It's alive and exists because fear as a concept exists. Existing outside of, but connected to, all other realities that share fear as a concept, being fed Auric Energy by simply being in the presence of negative emotions.

    The Entity's dimension, The Realm is itself another reality, infinite in size. However, instead of physical matter, it consists of memories. Memories of how physics works, memories of what a car looks like, memories of what a Generator does, etc. The Trials themselves are memories of locations held by Killers/Survivors, etc.


    Given the above, the Trials being so "regulated" doesn't make sense.

    You can say that the Trials we play are merely a unique selected subset of all the goings on in the Entity's Realm.

    You could also say that the Trials we play are guided by a "Mad Architect" intent on bending the Realm of the Entity for some unknown purpose.

    You could also say it's both.



    Of course now that I think about it I don't know what OP's post meant by "The Realm", if it was just the Trials or everything.

  • AetherBytes
    AetherBytes Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 2,987
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    If the Entity was choosing? Ghostface. He and the Entity are literally best buds; he is happy that the entity lets him do what he loves most all the time, and she is happy to have a killer who required no torture or bargaining and is of their own will subservant to the entity.

    By force? It's hard to say. Most of the "powerful" (in lore) killers also do not care for such a role (such as Pyramid Head. Pinhead. and myers), many of the others are just "normal" people, and some are even kept alive by the entity. I'm just gonna make a list.

    • Trapper: Weak against the entity, might die without her.
    • Hillbilly: Does not care
    • Wraith: Weak against the entity
    • Nurse: Weak against the entity, might die without her
    • Myers: Does not care
    • Hag: Does not care, might die without the entity
    • Doctor: Weak against the entity, but might care if there was an opportunity
    • Huntress: Does not care, attacks survivors in self defence
    • Cannibal: Does not care, attacks survivors in self defence
    • Freddy: Possibly weak without the entity, probably doesnt care
    • Amanda: Does not care, subservant to Entity
    • Clown: Does not care
    • Spirit: Made a deal with the Entity and does not want to break it. Will die without entity
    • Legion: Does not care, probably wants escape more than control.
    • Plague: Entirely subservant to the Entity
    • Ghostface: Entirely subservant to the entity, if anything would only try to take it's place to defend the entity from other attackers.
    • Demogorgon: Is a beast leashed by the Entity.
    • Oni: Does not care, might be subservant
    • Deathslinger: Does not care, would most likely seek escape.
    • Pyramid Head: Not his job.
    • Blight: Eligible, possibly subservant.
    • Twins: Vehemently against opposing the entity.
    • Trickster: Does not care, subservant
    • Nemisis: Not his job
    • Cenobite: Might care, but probably unable to
    • Artist: Will die without entity
    • Dredge: Not it's job, subservant?
    • Wesker: Unsure. Probably able to, but does not want to. Lore is badly written
    • Talbot: Would love to, but also loves working under the entity. Too weak to anyway.
    • Skull merchant: Probably doesnt care, would seek escape. Badly written lore.

    All up, the only ones eligible is Blight and Wesker, and ghostface to save the entity if need be.

  • Smoe
    Smoe Member Posts: 2,470
    edited May 2023
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    This is from a worldbuilding standpoint that doesn't require the writers to shoehorn themselves into a box with having a human mind controlling every facet of the Trials (and said logic of why/how are the Trials constructed), and can allow for more explorative writing down the road.

    Except it's already been established that the trials themselves and everything in it other than the Killers & Survivors that The Entity has captured are created and controlled by The Entity itself, along with everything else in The Fog aka The Entity's Realm.


    The Entity is a "Horror Dimension Eldritch Being", where it's quite literally the idea of fear, if it weren't just an emotion. It's alive and exists because fear as a concept exists. Existing outside of, but connected to, all other realities that share fear as a concept, being fed Auric Energy by simply being in the presence of negative emotions.


    The Entity's dimension, The Realm is itself another reality, infinite in size. However, instead of physical matter, it consists of memories. Memories of how physics works, memories of what a car looks like, memories of what a Generator does, etc. The Trials themselves are memories of locations held by Killers/Survivors, etc.


    Given the above, the Trials being so "regulated" doesn't make sense.

    While it's possible for memories to manifest through thought in The Fog, the assumption that The Fog consist only of memories is incorrect, outside of Killers & Survivors who are trapped in The Fog along with the Fog Creatures created by the Entity itself, The Fog actually consist purely of Auric Cells only.

    The Entity picks and chooses what does what when it looks at a memory of an area and thinks "this would work as a trial ground" but it does not understand why a house needs to look like a house, hence why we had stuff like old haddonfield houses. You can think of The Entity like an AI that generates content, it can create stuff out from what it interprets it as, but it doesn't truly understand what it's creating, which is why some stuff is so off.

    So therefore, it makes perfect sense for the trials to be regulated. If The Entity wanted to outright KILL the Survivors, it wouldnt make it fair at all. but it needs everyone to be kept in an emotional state at all times in order to extract as much Sustenance as it can from both Killers and Survivors.

    Which is why the trials are regulated. why pallets exist, the exit gates, etc.

    Besides, The Fog and everything within it including the trials as well as all Fog Creatures and the insects and animals like Rats & Crows are all part of The Entity itself since they're all extensions of it, so why wouldn't it control every part of how the trials looks and functions when it's already in full control of it all? (Excluding Survivors and Killers.)


    You can say that the Trials we play are merely a unique selected subset of all the goings on in the Entity's Realm.


    You could also say that the Trials we play are guided by a "Mad Architect" intent on bending the Realm of the Entity for some unknown purpose.


    You could also say it's both.

    I can't really say the trials have anything to do with any Mad Architect because there doesn't exist one canonically, unless you're thinking of The Mad Designer aka Jezabel who gets mentioned every now and then in the tomes, however she has nothing to do with the trials themselves and are more about drawings, sketches and journals about scenes from other realities or about future events yet to happen.

    Perhaps you've looked at the Mad Designer and mistaken them for something like a Mad Architect.

    Post edited by Smoe on
  • Piepie
    Piepie Member Posts: 11
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    Now if the Entity lost control but was somehow left alive, in a state where they'd be easily puppeteered, I believe The Cenobite would be the most likely to take over.

    No other killer probably cares enough. The ones that do, those being killers that are power hungry or something like that, would def. lose to Pinhead.

    Get this, Mikey does not give a #########, he just wants to kill, and is said to just have invited himself into the Realms, much like Pinhead. Pyramid Head is doing its job, it isn't motivated by any sort of control seeking crusade, hell, when it disposes punishment, it enters a deep slumber, awaiting the next calling where it may do what must be done.

  • AssortedSorting
    AssortedSorting Member Posts: 954
    edited May 2023
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    Except it's already been established that the trials themselves and everything in it other than the Killers & Survivors that The Entity has captured are created and controlled by The Entity itself, along with everything else in The Fog aka The Entity's Realm.

    Yep

    While it's possible for memories to manifest through thought in The Fog, the assumption that The Fog consist only of memories is incorrect, outside of Killers & Survivors who are trapped in The Fog along with the Fog Creatures created by the Entity itself, The Fog actually consist purely of Auric Cells only.

    Isn't it possible that Auric Energy/Cells is "memorystuff", after being "digested" by The Entity? Auric Energy being how it's interpreted by external consciousnesses?

    The Entity picks and chooses what does what when it looks at a memory of an area and thinks "this would work as a trial ground"

    I think this is where my viewpoint and yours diverge.

    I don't think The Entity is intelligent in any manner that we understand (Or perhaps even accept as being intelligent). It's less of a "being" and more of a "force of nature". It feeds off of and draws in memories/consciousnesses of things that cause fear, and is simply draw to potent memories/characters relating to that emotion.

    But it doesn't think. Think of it like a Black Hole.

    but it does not understand why a house needs to look like a house, hence why we had stuff like old haddonfield houses. You can think of The Entity like an AI that generates content, it can create stuff out from what it interprets it as, but it doesn't truly understand what it's creating, which is why some stuff is so off.

    Everything gets tossed into The Void, where loose memories are diluted into Auric Energy, including inaccurate ones. (These very same memories turned Auric Energy is what fuel the "Realms" created by the consciousnesses dumped into The Void, on their own tiny little islands)

    I also think that the scales we are thinking about are very different.

    The Entity doesn't "pick and choose" how an area looks. Saying that it can look one way, or look another, is inaccurate.

    It already has all possible permutations of an area setup. As soon as it's thought about, that memory now exists, floating around somewhere. As if The Realm is its own multiverse, capable of generating multiverses, like an infinite fractal.

    Which is why the trials are regulated. why pallets exist, the exit gates, etc.


    Besides, The Fog and everything within it including the trials as well as all Fog Creatures and the insects and animals like Rats & Crows are all part of The Entity itself since they're all extensions of it, so why wouldn't it control every part of how the trials looks and functions when it's already in full control of it all? (Excluding Survivors and Killers.)

    To restate my viewpoint, I don't think The Entity "controls" anything. It has no intent, by our standards. You may disagree, and on that point it'd be artistic differences.



    I can't really say the trials have anything to do with any Mad Architect because there doesn't exist one canonically, unless you're thinking of The Mad Designer aka Jezabel who gets mentioned every now and then in the tomes, however she has nothing to do with the trials themselves and are more about drawings, sketches and journals about scenes from other realities or about future events yet to happen.

    Perhaps you've looked at the Mad Designer and mistaken them for something like a Mad Architect.

    I find it fun to try and figure out a way to turn every game we've played as Players into in-universe cannon.

    So that involved coming up with the above, and subsequently realizing that it would also conveniently allow the old game lore to exist in tandem (where The Entity was more or less a madgod pitting people against one another).

    Wasn't sure if BHVR was bringing that back or not, so kinda made an assumption when I heard Mad Designer. (Though I don't know why I thought Mad Architect).

  • AetherBytes
    AetherBytes Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 2,987
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    If I remember correctly, the crows are explicitly stated to not work for anyone. The Entity, killers, or survivors.

  • AetherBytes
    AetherBytes Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 2,987
    edited May 2023
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    Isn't it possible that Auric Energy/Cells is "memorystuff", after being "digested" by The Entity? Auric Energy being how it's interpreted by external consciousnesses?

    Auric cells are matter that responds to memories, not memories that have been digested. It's been stated a few times before that those that understand what Auric Cells are and how they work are able to wrestle control from the entity and form them into what they want instead of the entity. It's how some of the more prominent lore figures inside the entity's realm were able to hide away from a time, using the Entity's auric cells against it to conceal themselves and make themselves comfortable. Eventually though, the Entity either finds a way to get to them, or decides to allow them to exist as they please (As was the blight's case when they initially entered the realms, before becoming a killer)

    I don't think The Entity is intelligent in any manner that we understand (Or perhaps even accept as being intelligent). It's less of a "being" and more of a "force of nature". It feeds off of and draws in memories/consciousnesses of things that cause fear, and is simply draw to potent memories/characters relating to that emotion.


    But it doesn't think. Think of it like a Black Hole.

    The entity is intelligent and does think, how else would it know who to target to bring into the realm and how to torture and/or bargain? And is even capable of very rudimentary conversation, the whispers that you hear when using the perk Whispers, affected by Madness, or when using corrupt purge as the plague, are the entity's voice, incomprehensible, but still talking.

    Everything gets tossed into The Void, where loose memories are diluted into Auric Energy, including inaccurate ones. (These very same memories turned Auric Energy is what fuel the "Realms" created by the consciousnesses dumped into The Void, on their own tiny little islands)

    Admittedly I might have missed some lore tidbit, but the void is more of a trashbin than anything, where the husks of survivors with no hope anymore, or killers the entity was unable to convert go to. Only 2 beings have been to the void; Blight, who was allowed to by the Entity, and Vigo, who had made his own way there I think.


    Honestly, thinking on it, the amount of times the Entity has allowed someone to wander the realms as they want makes me wonder if it's curious about itself, meaning even the entity doesnt exactly know how the entity works.

  • AssortedSorting
    AssortedSorting Member Posts: 954
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    Auric cells are matter that responds to memories, not memories that have been digested. It's been stated a few times before that those that understand what Auric Cells are and how they work are able to wrestle control from the entity and form them into what they want instead of the entity. It's how some of the more prominent lore figures inside the entity's realm were able to hide away from a time, using the Entity's auric cells against it to conceal themselves and make themselves comfortable. Eventually though, the Entity either finds a way to get to them, or decides to allow them to exist as they please (As was the blight's case when they initially entered the realms, before becoming a killer)

    IRL we still don't know what the smallest building blocks of matter are made up of, just that it's made up of energy. So that still leaves room for DBD's Lore to have it's Auric Energy be sourced from "digested thoughtstuff", which is the angle I'm going for.

    Also the fun thing about making oneself comfortable in The Realm is that's just one more thing to fear losing! And in this case bad thoughts might literally be coming to get you. The noise you thought you heard, now is a noise you hear.

    The entity is intelligent and does think, how else would it know who to target to bring into the realm

    Think of it like an emotion, the idea of fear incarnate. The more pain/suffering/unease felt by someone or caused by something, the more The Entity's presence encroaches. But it isn't ever-present in worlds outside The Realm, as it can't freely move between realities outside of its own.

    and how to torture and/or bargain? And is even capable of very rudimentary conversation, the whispers that you hear when using the perk Whispers, affected by Madness, or when using corrupt purge as the plague, are the entity's voice, incomprehensible, but still talking.

    Memories made "reality", and memories that essentially lead to self-fulfilling prophecies by the consciousnesses that think up "what-ifs" of their current situation. Keeping in mind of course that the most "energy-efficient option" is a memory that induces fear, as that's what The Entity is all about.

    For Whispers and the like, that's a consciousness embracing The Entity's Power (Auric Energy), being flooded with diluted memories, nonsensical thoughts/sounds/voices.

    Admittedly I might have missed some lore tidbit, but the void is more of a trashbin than anything, where the husks of survivors with no hope anymore, or killers the entity was unable to convert go to. Only 2 beings have been to the void; Blight, who was allowed to by the Entity, and Vigo, who had made his own way there I think.

    It is a trashbin, where everything that has been "processed" goes.

    I don't think it's fully fleshed out, story-wise (but I am unsure). So I'm going with it essentially where everything The Entity "processes" goes, and is essentially, to our eyes, nothing but endless fog, albeit this also being the place with the most amount of Auric Energy, and as a result this is also where all Auric constructs get created.

    I don't think of it like layers, more like a galaxy, where space is Auric Energy/Fog/Void and the "stars" are memories that consciousnesses are able to see/have created through their own memories.

    For The Blight? In my opinion he's a consciousness that was "processed" by The Entity over time , diluting himself into Auric Energy by injecting himself with his Serum. Eventually by happenstance his consciousness partially reformed in The Void under the singular pursuit of the memory of a flower, and coagulating into what we know as The Blight.

  • AssortedSorting
    AssortedSorting Member Posts: 954
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    Oh, but if you are looking for "Intent" on bad things or targeted occurrences:

    It's how some of the more prominent lore figures inside the entity's realm were able to hide away from a time, using the Entity's auric cells against it to conceal themselves and make themselves comfortable.

    Not everyone is good, and in DBD's lore there's a cult around The Entity.

  • AetherBytes
    AetherBytes Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 2,987
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    Think of it like an emotion, the idea of fear incarnate. The more pain/suffering/unease felt by someone or caused by something, the more The Entity's presence encroaches. But it isn't ever-present in worlds outside The Realm, as it can't freely move between realities outside of its own.

    Again, the entity has been explicitly described as chosing and bargaining, and capable of torture and knowing when it's broken it's target. It is capable of thought.

    For Whispers and the like, that's a consciousness embracing The Entity's Power (Auric Energy), being flooded with diluted memories, nonsensical thoughts/sounds/voices.

    This is the Entity's voice directly. The tutorial makes note of this, and correlates the perk Whispers and the Entity talking.

  • AssortedSorting
    AssortedSorting Member Posts: 954
    edited May 2023
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    And IMO that "Entity" is the "Mad Architect". The Observer (one of the many) quite literally gone off the deep end in search for entertainment, horror, power, further delving into the workings of his Auris and The Tower.

  • ImainAsh
    ImainAsh Member Posts: 3
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    there are many killers that weren't manipulated because they already were killers and Myers (and I think it's obvious) is one of them. Also Myers can't kill people without either a mori or a tombstone so I think that Entity has same control over him as the others

  • HoodedWildKard
    HoodedWildKard Member Posts: 2,013
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    Idk if the realms would even exist if the Entity died/was destroyed. The realms are all created by the Entity's will and without that to hold it together my best guess is that the realms would fall apart and dissolve into the void, destroying anyone left inside who couldn't escape. I.e. every survivor who couldn't manipulate auric cells to escape, and pretty much all of the killers except pinhead, freddy and maybe demo if it could travel to the upside down. Perhaps vittorio might be able to escape since canonically he can travel around realms if he learned how to leave the Entity's realm.

  • FridayNightPizza
    FridayNightPizza Member Posts: 585
    edited July 2023
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    Sadako. She's insanely powerful in the books.

  • shady7371
    shady7371 Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 4
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    the 100% blight, if this is not a man in an armchair from the archives, then it will definitely be a blight, he is the smartest and most enlightened both in knowledge of the world of essence and in principle of all possible, this is the only maniac who could resist the essence for a very long time, he has practically no weaknesses besides that he is a drug addict lol, he will be able to control the pestilence flower, he will bring a lot of opportunities to the world of essence and objectively will be the best owner of this world
    


  • chatgiraffe
    chatgiraffe Member Posts: 113
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