Gen rush discussion.
Comments
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Yes, the drawing was meant “lets put this discussion to sleep”. Last comment was 6 weeks old.
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I put gen rushing in the same camp as slugging. I don't see it as something you can critique, because people are doing what they're supposed to be doing... I think (as a Pig main) gen rush is a lamentation of weak chase/low mobility killers who naturally struggle vs fast gen progress and they get salty about it (I know I do).
Fact is, if you don't push survivors off gens, they will take the gen, just like if you hover nearby for a save and /or don't scatter when I down your teammate, I will hit/down you too if I can.
The big issue as I see it is skilled coordinated teams taking the best gear/perks can melt gens and run a less optimised killer ragged. Similarly the skilled strongest character killers taking the best addons/perks can mow down less optimised teams before they can even breathe.
The reason I think people fall into complaining about "gen rushing" is the game is balanced around SWF, thus coordinated teams totally crush killers who rely on confusion, disarray and survivor mistakes to win (mostly the set up / stealth killers), who tend to get badly hurt by comms... so instead the Killers with strong chase and map presense tend to be the better choice because comms doesn't really hurt them... knowing a Blight/Nurse/Spirit is coming doesn't help anywhere near as much compared to knowing a Pig, Ghostface or Trapper is coming...😏
But that is what it be... chase AND map presense is king... and if you try to make that not the way it is... you get Skull Merchant ;)
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In 99% of the cases were players use the term "genrush" it wasn't anything like that. Killers play not efficiently or have bad RNG (bad map, bad spawns etc) and think the survs did something extraordinay, but what are survs supposed to do if they don't get chased or have to unhook anyone? They just do the objective.
A genrush would be a swf squad that brings toolboxes with BNP, Deja Vu, Resilience, Prove Thyself and maybe Adrenaline and then completely focuses on gens and ignores unhooks until the end. That's not the case in 99% of the games. If you have a bad chase and don't switch early enough or no macro-control/game sense/decision making then survs will win rightfully.
Learn to ignore the "rulebook" and play killer efficiently, if you need to tunnel you just tunnel. Survs won't make gens slower for you or give you another chance by doing totems or opening chests. (Solo) Surv is hard right now and they learned to not goof around. So stop complaining and learn how to play killer efficiently. It's the Devs job to do something against it if it's against the rules to tunnel/camp/proxycamp.
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I think it's a seriously contrived concept.
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Gen rushing is just the end result of the killer playing poorly. I had a solo survivor game once where me and every survivor just went on to find a generator of our own and kept working on it nonstop. The killer was dedicated to chasing this one survivor but was unable to win the chase. Instead of moving on to something else, they just continued the chase. By the time that survivor got injured, we completed all of our respective generators in about only 2 minutes. The killer was persuaded we were gen rushers and just rage quit.
Did we plan on doing this? Hell no. We all were on different devices (no pregame chat) and most survivors had flashlights and medkits. It happened because the killer didn't do anything to try and hinder us.
You don't have a complete control of the situation as a killer, but it's your job to ensure the 4 survivors aren't doing what they want. You do control what most survivors are doing with your presence alone. Move and act smart.
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He wants to mock me but he is just showing he cannot read AND understand at the same time.
The comic, even if it is funny, it is not appropriate for my message.
The point is not that a survivor that invest everything in doing gens fast is wrong.
The point is that he CAN do it and noone is going to call him toxic.
Efficient killer's behaviours are instead something toxic that should be removed.
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What people fail to see is how the community evolved with the game and its meta. When I started you had a lot of kinda casual games, where you chased someone, downed them, a gen got done, you chased another one, downed them, another gen got done, and when the playing field got smaller, the pesky Steves and Neas tried to goad you into prolonged chases and would even follow you when you chased another survivor. Back then survivors were pretty darn save with multiple layers of protection and could effort to play games with the killer and be unefficient.
Then SBMM made everyone sweat a lot, because survivors didnt want to end up in MMR hell, and 6.1 brought the big, sweeping changes. Gen time get increased by the famous +10s and a lot of the old meta got turned upside down. Killers experienced an all-time high in power and while some just enjoyed the new status quo, sadly a lot leaned too much into their bully persona and made the survivors game absolutely misserable, so survivors learned to play extremely efficient, as to counter the increased gen time. Splitting up was always a winning strategy, but in the past it wasn't nessecary; now it became to norm to split up in two teams with one Proof user.
Then the Eruption and gen kicking meta happend and a lot survivors ditched fun builds for ultre efficient gen eating ones. It was a back and forth, but now we are at a point were most of the gen regression perks on the killers side have been nerfed and severely reigned in, but survivors havn't suddenly forgotten how to be ultra efficient. Not every group is, mind you, but in the past most survivors would somewhat hang out together to get a gen done asap. Nowadays everyone knows that splitting up is the best thing to do and its basically a given. Its not rare at all to have a really fast and quick first chase and you down the survivor REALLY fast, but by the time you reach the hook three gens pop. Thats not the end of the trial, but its still devastating for moral, to have barely started the match and you are already down 3 gens. Survivors in this case aren't gen rushing, but they are splitting up and doing gens in the most efficient way.
And with only 2 gens to go and just one hook stage on your side, most of this games are already decided. If the gens are setup in a way that the survivors split the map in two, they already won, if you can still hold a 3 gen, it gets nitty gritty. Quite analogous to how splitting up was always a good strategy, the same can be said about 3-genning. When I started the game, all the killer 101 tutorials talked about 3-gens as a tactic to keep in mind, but most of the time killers hadn't to rely on it from the start and a lot of killers didn't know about it. Now they all know and many use is to their advantage and many survivors call this "unfun" and want it nerfed; some on the killers side with gen rushing. And of course, killers now tunnel more then ever, because in this current meta, you just can't effort to reach the 1 gen stage with 4 survivors runnign around, thats basically throwing.
In reality, both sides are just applying the techniques that the meta and pressure taught them, but its an arms race and there isn't much design space left. We all know how it often feels: all the killers tunnel at 5 gens, but if you decide to play killer, gens pop like popcorn. Its a genie in the bottle situation: now that the wider population of both, killers and survivors, have internalised the most efficient ways to win, and in some cases the only way to win, you can't make them unlearn this.
So this game needs some sort of reset. We need to go back in time to a place were this arms race thing hadn't happend yet and then we need to put in systems to incentivice the good play. Debuff the survivors with some escalating buffs, but take them all away once the first survivor dies. Give killers back old BBQ-style BP bonuses, but only increase the counter for hooking a survivor, while all survivors are alive. Inverse the efficiency debuff for repairing gens, ie doing gens alone is much much slower then doing them together. Give survivors a repair speed bonus for each dead other survivor, so that they might still push through. Incentivice killers to go for more hooks over kills and incentivice survivors to do one gen after the other, but speed things up once they start dying.
The game could also do with a comeback mechanic. Peeps seem to hate the idea of being "punished for playing good/wining", but DBD is sadly very snowbally and the fun games, where both sides give it their all an the game could swing in both ways, are very very rare these days. Most often one side starts winning and then win harder and the other can just watch getting stomped.
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The only thing I read was the last comment is on 8th June. 6 weeks before you dig this old topic.
I was not going to read your complaint.
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Discussions about gen-rushing will never get old.
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tbh I think it's a serioua issue BHVR has no plan on fixing. Survivors get easily the first 3 gens done in the first two minutes (i'd say 1 minute for sure for the first 2 gens at least), and the ability of the killer to stop that is almost null. Kicking gens do nothing, and tunneling, camping or slugging are just not the solution...
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I am sure you not like to read things. Neever doubted about that.
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You didnt read what's in the comic either, we share the same common : O
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I read it and i also commented. But you didn't read my comment. I think the issue is only yours. You not read or you read and not understand.
The funny part is.... i think me and you agree about that topic but you didn't understood it.
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Im so sorry a drawing that telling you to not dig up the old discussion made you thought of something else that I didnt mean it and forced your words into my drawing, was that hurt for you.
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I am sorry but there were no other more recent discussions open about this topic. Did you prefer me to open ANOTHER DISCUSSION AGAIN about gen speed? What was the purpouse?
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Genrush is the sole intention of finishing generators as quickly as possible
Though a decent amount of the time, they may get 3 gens done in one chase but they often make a ton of mistakes later on which still causes them to lose the game. I don't know whether it's because they're less skilled in making logical decisions with unhooks/chases but I tend to notice the mistakes more often nowadays
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I didn't read other comments, just want to leave the problem, that i feel in-game rn.
I play both sides, but used to play a lot more often as a killer.
5-6 months ago i could win more games than lose them. I used to let go one survivor EVERY game no matter how it goes, and even tho there was toxic players, most of players was okay and nice.
Now i can't allow it myself. Every game is like a torture as a killer. Its either full team of random players with no brains, or SWF full stacked 100 lvl MVP gold black edition 666 intel inside. But even random teams repairing gens in no time. Previously gens were 80 seconds but they was NOT repaired as fast as now. It was normal to kill one person when two gens left WITHOUT tunneling OR camping. Now i can only allow to hook for the FIRST time for exchange of 2-3 gens.
Why? You can think that i'm bad killer, i promise, i'm not, but here are the reasons:
1) You waste up to 30-40 seconds (on knight map up to one minute) just to FIND first survivor because of gen spreading and map RNG (which often works against killers, aka 2-5 windows or pallets one after another).
2) Then you waste from up to 2 minutes to down him. You can say, well, man, if you waste more than 30 seconds, just drop the chase. But the problem is that you already wasted 30-60 seconds to find that person, if you just drop the chase and don't know where are the others, then you will instantly lose 2-3 gens without even hooking anyone. Sometimes you can find 2, 3 or 4 of them, but thats more like 30-40% chance.
3) After you down a person, you waste from 3 to 13 seconds just to hook that person, because hooks spread is so freaking high, sometimes i see no hooks nearby with NO offerings and the closest is behind two walls which i can't allow myself to reach or survivor will break out.
So basically if survivor is not stupid, i will waste from 1 minute to 3 minutes to hook one person. That is enough to repair up to 4 gens, and that is insane.
Now BHVR buffed (exactly, BUFFED) BNP, because, if you will watch one of latest Otzdarva videos, you will realised that BNP gave you somewhere around 14 extra seconds, not 22.5. ANd now it gives 10 seconds which you CAN'T lower by kicking or blowing gen. Because it is simply lowering charges needed to repair it.
I have to say: there is no such thing as gen rush. Survivors have only one objective: escape alive. ANd that forcing them to repair gens and open the game. As well as killer job to slay as much of them as possible, but at least 3 of them.
Nobody says that killer is KILL rushing isn't?
But how it feels right now for killer? Awfull. I told half a year ago that more killer will camp and tunnel with each nerf in future. And currently many of our perks overnerfed so hard that its not worth to stop and kick gens anymore. Its only worth to chase person and slay it asap. Its worth only to tunnel and a bit camp, just because you cannot afford yourself to waste extra minute to chase someone, because one minute = almost repaired 3 gens. Or 2 repaired.
And now grab from unhooking deleted as well. I think that camping and tunneling is bad thing and should'nt exist, that deleting grab from unhooking is good thig, BUT not now.
Increasing gens from 90 to 120 seconds is not good idea as well. Developers, hear me out: make more objectives, force survivors to be busy with something else. GIve more chances for killers to find someone. Give them time. Because right now it feels like games are ending in 5-7 minutes at most, with 3-4 survivors escaped. When i play surv i see almost only Wesker, Nurse, Huntress, Blight and Spirit. Those who can shoot from afar or gapclose ASAP. And the reasons i wrote above.
If you will keep nerfing killers, you will force them to play even more toxic, nerfing them again, and you will have less killer players ending up with higher queue time.
There are less killers than survivors, but remember, that if killer don't play, survivors don't play as well.
P.S. Your recient changes to surv and killer perks mostly was great, especially i liked Coup De Grau, which became a lot better and worth to buy now. But some of them left weak af, still not worth to get them.
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