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The Entity wants survivors to escape?
So I recently learned that pallets are made up of the fog (which is also the entity) so does that mean The Entity is helping them and wants them to escape, if not why pallets, why gens and exit gates, why make it even possible to escape, and also why killers? Once the endgame timer finishes the entity just kills them itself (same with on a hook) so what’s the entire point of having someone do it for you, and why help them get away if the entity is mostly on the killers side?
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Fear is a result of something had, taken away, or the concept of it (or the inverse of something not present, becoming present). Fear of the unknown is simply loss of certainty.
If there is no hope to escape, why fear what comes? Your doom is certain.
It's not like Survivors that escape a Trial truly escape.
So give them hope, something to latch onto. So that it might be taken away.
Even if Survivors retained their memories, this isn't something that needs to happen all the time, it just needs to be an eventuality. Simmering. A thought that one would suppress, if only to cherish what they have in the moment, to make its sudden loss just that much sweeter.
And don't mistake The Entity, this isn't just something that Survivors can face, it's just the same for Killers, their own loss and sacrifice fuels their desire to take from others what they feel they deserve, be it through unbridled retribution, or simply desire at the expense of others. They're simply a catalyst for this eventuality, making things easier.
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The nuances of the Trials themselves might not be a direct result of The Entity, but perhaps a "subsidiary". Someone, something trying to utilize the Auric Power this hope and dashing of hope provides for their own purposes. Utilizing purpose and apathy.
There is The Entity, and the Mad Designer. They are not the same, as The Entity could very well embody the idea of Death itself. The fear of cessation to exist.
The Mad Designer has simply latched onto that idea, that concept, in order to fulfil their own desire to continue. To design, and see what happens. And so they've created The Trials. To fuel their passion, to see what happens.
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The entity feeds on emotion. It prefers fear since its such a potent and powerful emotion. And theres more fear when their hope is crushed, cant crush hope if theirs no chance of survival.
fun fact: entity erases everyones memory at the end so its the same level of emotion each time.
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The Entity is wanting to feed off emotions in any way it can. Fear - as has been mentioned earlier - is a strong form of sustinance, and this can be harvested from both survivors and killers. The idea of the pain from a pallet or the fear the pallet will prevent the kill and anger the Entity may be instilled into killers.
Some killers may not respond in this way, such as the Executioner, so the pallets work in another way which is to impact on the psyche of survivors. Hitting a pallet stun may make survivors get a small dose of hope or glee, but that then evaporates when they realise that's the end of that and the killer may become ever more angry. The trials are almost a natural process where the Entity may not really care about the results, so long as it was well-fed after.
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no, everything in the trials is being designed by the Entity itself. in a meta way, you could think of BHVR as the Entity, choosing how the maps are created and how the powers work.
but everyone else here has it just about correct. the Entity places down the pallets, windows, loops, gens, exit gates etc. so that survivors keep thinking that they can actually get out of there. feeding on emotion and whatnot. and the Entity isnt really biased to one side or the other lorewise, even though there are a lot of Killer perks and mechanics that summon the entity to block gens/windows/exit gate, survivors are capable of using these powers as well
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Have you read the archives?
The entity is a dimension of memories that feeds off the fears of those in other universes. Being a universe made of living memory, the memories of those it feeds on slosh around the miasma of jumbled and 'digested' memories/emotion. Effectively being a chaotic hellscape.
The Trials are a subset, with structure, and whose structure can be approached via the idea of infinity a la the Library of Babel, or through directed intent, ironically also part of the approach when considering the Library of Babel.
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i have read the archives. and you're wrong about several things there.
"feeds off fears of those in other universes" wrong, it only takes memories from those it captures
"miasma of jumbled and digested memories" wrong. even outside of the trials (aka the Lost Realms) each realm still holds together and doesnt completely collapse into random garbage.
and for whatever that last point is which i cant even attempt to understand. the Entity created the trials. the Mad Designer doesnt do anything even close to that. they write stories about killers and survivors in other universes and design the masquerade outfits.
the proof of the Entity being in charge is literally so obvious, the entire game is full of evidence. in the tutorial "the voices" tell you to hook survivors for the Entity. and the perk Whispers is stated to be the voice of the Entity. if it had nothing to do with the trials, why would it be encouraging Killers to partake? when you dont get enough hooks, the entity is Displeased. why would it care if its not running the trials? why would it torture trapper and others into doing its work if it doesnt run the trials? why would it influence the Legion or Artist their entire lives if it didnt want them to be killers in the trials that it runs? why would it give killers cosmetics (the Bloodstained Sack DLC is stated to have literally dropped sack of outfits from the sky for the killers, legion bunny outfits have the same explanation). why would it literally create the Minotaur directly out of the memories of some survivors?
i could list every single game mechanic and random bit of lore that proves you wrong, but it would take hours.
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Mad designer who??
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If it fed on memories without any preference, why is horror such a persistent theme?
The Trials literally collapse after they finish, and the end-game screens all show the characters walking through black fog.
Most characters describe walking through a black mist.
More importantly, I’m talking from the viewpoint that there are two “Entities”. One calling itself The Entity, orchestrating the Trials we experience, gathering power from these sacrifices.
And then there is the Eldritch dimensional being/universe that is the core for these events and happenings in the first place.
This Entity, is infinite in scale. It works off of the multiverse. I’d even warrant The Trials we play are canon.
One is the Apple that falls from a tree, and the other is the gravity causing it to fall.
You keep asking about a why, looking for a reason for things like why cosmetics appear, I posit that there is no reason, simply the happenstance from the literal chaos that is an infinite pool of memories being twisted and churned on universal scales.
Cultists worshiping the encroachment of this eldritch force, or inhabitants of the fog reaching into other universes where the veil is thinnest, or most catalyzing.
You seem so focused on the Trials but forget that The Dredge was created by Otto Stamper through experimentation with this force. The house of Arkham, the Observers Tower, if you’re so focused on reasons, why is that allowed?
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- the entity is sentient and intelligent, it feeds on memories of horror because fear is the most delicious emotion to it
- what does this prove?
- again, what point does this prove?
- this is just straight up not true. the Entity is both the Trials and the Realms. it is every pallet, generator, wall, and window.
- again, there are not two Entities. the Mad Architect isnt even a real character and has never been mentioned even a single time.
- you dont need this stupid explanation to prove that trials are canon. they already are which is proven by actual lore.
- what does this even mean?
- we literally have in game cosmetics with descriptions describing how they were created from memories and given by the Entity
- what does the Black Vale have to do with this?
- the Dredge being created by Stamper doesnt prove anything about your point. its already been established that anybody can manipulate Auric Energy, its just that the Entity is so incredibly powerful that nobody else is able to manipulate the Cells that it has
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1-4: If the entity is sentient and intelligent in ways we understand, why does it allow any of its own power to be used by others? Why does it have excess or unneeded zones between Trials if it actively controls and is involved with all aspects of itself? Why can it be avoided by others inside of its own realm, or even have dissenters if it can wipe and implant memories?
5: Architect/Designer. Whichever.
6: Just to clarify, a 4 Leon Trial is canon?
7: This is only relevant from the viewpoint that the entity in control/design of the Trials is manipulating a subset of something larger.
8: Why would the entity even want to give cosmetics in the first place, why waste the effort?
9: Why let others leverage your power?
10: What is the underlying force that allows Auric energy to do this stuff in the first place? This force is what I consider the actual Entity.
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6- I mean trials are canon right? So maybe? Is there even a canon ending for trials?
8- Ask the entity. Cosmetics clearly have descriptions saying how they got there.
Sorry for my uneducated barging in, correct me if I'm wrong on any of these
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6: IMO, the Trials we play are cannon in the sense that these matchups are possible, duplicates and whatnot, given the reach of the underlying force being multiversal. Same with the endings. The player acting as a kind of Observer, viewing these memories that match up with our inputs.
8: To which I say, are you talking about the being that decided to distribute those clothes, or the thing that made it possible for those clothes to exist in the first place? My opinion is that there is an eldritch force that makes all this possible, and then whatever or whomever that ascribes intent over some of what that eldritch thing is capable of.
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8- Both. Wouldn't the eldritch force be the entity..?
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8: By detaching directed intent from the eldritch force, you provide a lot more narrative leeway for worldbuilding.
If the eldritch force only manages The Trials because that’s what it wants and is focused on, and that’s all, then everything unrelated to The Trials isn’t canon, and people can be weird about that.
But if the eldritch force is much more esoteric, like just feeding off of the concept of fear, then you could even say that Hooked On You is canon, as the eldritch being is feeding both on the fear of rejection, and the fear of possible death. And it’s world is a result of the concept of infinite possibilities.
And in the same world space the Trials would be handled by some kind of unhinged observer that’s orchestrating and influencing how they’re setup for some goal.
All in all this detachment allows for more storytelling, compared to stating that there is only one canon way the story should be told, The Trials.
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Problem is, like many other things you claim, is that you're combining your own headcanons with that of the actual canon and act as if it's all legit.
just because you're treating your headcanons as if they're actual part of the actual canon doesn't automatically make it anymore canon than that of any other headcanons, which is none at all.
And no, that has nothing to do with any "artistic difference" (even though you can't really call it that since what is canon isn't some subjective thing since everything that actually is canon is clearly stated in the tomes and such), it's just a matter of fact.
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My headcannon heavily intertwines with the Arcus logs of the starting tomes. Which leans heavily into the same kind of sentient multiversal horror (Omniversal given IP crossovers), with its own interior multiverse. Which, if true. basically means that the Trials format is its own subdimension ("Universe", though I hesitate to call it that given all likely are finite in size) within The Entity.
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My headcannon heavily intertwines with the Arcus logs of the starting tomes. Which leans heavily into the same kind of sentient multiversal horror
I mean that's all fine & dandy but that still doesn't change the fact that it is still only just that, a headcanon.
Unless the lore itself states these things as legit, it will never be canon regardless of how much you treat it as such.
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Have you read the Arcus logs? I'm just making a more generic outline:
"The atmosphere of the realms is dark and grim to say the least but also… everchanging. I've already remarked that the atmosphere is misty even foggy at times and that this fog feels alive. It seems to contain swirls and streams of memories or imprints of beings from multiple terra worlds. It is as if The Entity absorbs all the psychic energy and thoughts of beings it snatches as it journeys through the endless cosmos."
"End the trials. Destroy its ability to sap dark nectar from victims like a cruel parasite feeding from a flower. At least the Archives affords me a better understanding of the Entity… why it moves from universe to universe, picking victims off and devouring worlds as though at a cosmic buffet. What I have yet to conclude is whether it is attracted to worlds that are brimming with darkness and madness or if it is in fact the catalyst of such darkness and madness."
"All planes of existence are a unique mix of conscious Auric particles and material particles. The Entity is almost certainly pure consciousness… The observable fact of existence is the material world responds to and changes with consciousness… collective consciousness is the key… The body, the home, the trial—all of it is an expression of The Entity's unconscious need for fear and terror."
Still seems as the entity is malevolent and consciously acting out the trials, true.
Then it gets to this part
"Life is not life in this prison, and death is not an escape. It is merely the start of a new trial and most survivors are aware they are caught in something they will never understand. Why this is all happening is no longer obvious to me. The truth is… I don't know what to believe anymore… The Entity is… not what it is… or what I thought it was…"
"Things could have been worse. I could have been banished in a dimension without Auric Fog containing the memory imprints of countless victims, memories that keep me entertained and busy with my coin and spirit collections... and the music... the variations from parallel worlds... it helps pass the time. In a twisted way I think what I'm admitting is that I'm glad The Entity takes what it wants when it wants from the omniverse."
"There is a curiosity at the core of every thinking person. A need for knowledge from uncharted and unknowable territories, but what is discovered in those blank spaces of the abyss... of the cosmos are things far too immense to understand. Things better left unobserved lest they undermine our sanity. Better to embrace ignorance than face the truth of our insignificance in the grand scheme of it all. Against the vastness of the infinite we are mere microbes swirling in an endless, indifferent cosmic stew. I say stew… but The Entity is probably more of a blood pudding."
"I have recently wondered if Survivors realise the titanic significance of their thoughts and feelings, and of how The Entity uses them to furnish the trials. Thoughts and feelings that bring me glimpses of what it's like to have lived on a parallel world as someone else. It helps pass the time."
It can still be said that the Entity itself does direct the layouts of the Trials.
"More luminous energy sent to me by an unknown ally. With this energy, I was able to open a small window that allowed me to look into a lost realm where I saw to my great surprise a city with survivors living as though nothing was out of the ordinary. The window eventually closed, and I spent the entire evening imagining how such a thing could be possible or if it was merely an illusion. The same night another surge of energy permitted me to open a doorway into a realm I didn't much recognise or dare explore. I stared at the scintillating doorway until it faded out of existence. It's as though the one manifesting these sacred glyphs is trying to help me delve deeper into the mysteries of this dimension or, perhaps, he is suggesting that the answers to my salvation are hidden amongst the countless realms discarded by this Old One since time immemorial."
"I have uncovered to my amazement and bewilderment memories of Claudette that are unlike any of those I've previously experienced. One might even say they should not belong to her... and yet... they are hers. I surmise these memories may belong to another Claudette from another Terra world, suggesting that this Old One may have clear preferences at the cosmic buffet for certain souls. It will take more samples of these memories to know if they are in fact from another Claudette or if, and it is possible, I am having troubles deciphering between her actual memories and her creative musings."
"I have often wondered if those trapped here have ever paused to reflect upon the inexplicable significance of this world that defies not only time and space but death. A world made of memories that is neither consistent or constant. Something akin to a collective dream made of the collective memories and beliefs of its inhabitants. Sometimes I wonder if not all worlds were like this in some respect and that reality is what we in fact dream it to be or believe it to be."
"Stories and journals are scattered everywhere. So much to read… and yet I find myself drawn to the scribblings and renditions of the unknown creator I'm calling the Mad Designer. Journals filled with the wild sketches and musings of people I imagine are caught in other parts of this living dimension--people juxtaposed with other Terra worlds and timelines that make little or no sense to who they are or where they come from. The illustrations and notes are foolish, absurd and quite contradictory, and yet they bring moments of levity to my life which does the soul good. I suppose it's a form of absurd escapism I turn to when I'm not reading the more traditional stories. Interestingly enough, I found seventeen versions of a story featuring a killer named Evan written by seventeen versions of the same author from the omniverse. Seventeen similar stories with sometimes subtle, sometimes significant differences. What I find particularly interesting is how the stories are written as fiction in one world and non-fiction in another. It reminds me of Universus Alveo… a theory that suggests that the human mind might very well be equipped with a powerful networking mechanism that reaches out to other worlds for wisdom and knowledge from our other-selves. Some can use their minds in this way and others can't. The theory suggests that those who have experienced trauma in their formative years detach from their reality, allowing them to explore other realities and worlds with relative ease. Artists like magicians and shamans see small things in the big, unexplainable endless dream that is the omniverse and they bring these ideas or insights back to entertain, enlighten and inspire the world. Fiction in one world, non-fiction in another. Everything is real, or nothing is. And here in the Chamber of Blood there are countless horror stories of every variety. So many that it seems to me that one of the unknown prisoners was collecting these stories as a way to discover more about their imprisonment, the Entity and the terrible screams coming from the surrounding abyss. Whether this true or not, I'm not sure, but what I do know is I spent the whole night reading my favorite stories out loud like my father used to do by the fireplace. And the entire time I couldn't help but wonder… How? How could anyone have accessed and assembled such a rich collection of notes, journals and stories? I have no immediate answer, but I suspect by the texture and density of the fog that I may be in a place as complex, mysterious and misunderstood as a black hole—a living, breathing, all-consuming black hole, the serpent of infinity that gorges on its tail, that eats itself endlessly as it spirals downward into the cosmic, Fibonacci stew that is life incomprehensible."
The Entity is cosmic/existential horror. Not Jigsaw.
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The truth is… I don't know what to believe anymore… The Entity is… not what it is… or what I thought it was…"
This doesn't prove that there is a second Entity, only that truly understanding The Entity is beyond comprehension.
"More luminous energy sent to me by an unknown ally. With this energy, I was able to open a small window that allowed me to look into a lost realm where I saw to my great surprise a city with survivors living as though nothing was out of the ordinary. The window eventually closed, and I spent the entire evening imagining how such a thing could be possible or if it was merely an illusion. The same night another surge of energy permitted me to open a doorway into a realm I didn't much recognise or dare explore. I stared at the scintillating doorway until it faded out of existence. It's as though the one manifesting these sacred glyphs is trying to help me delve deeper into the mysteries of this dimension or, perhaps, he is suggesting that the answers to my salvation are hidden amongst the countless realms discarded by this Old One since time immemorial."
"I have uncovered to my amazement and bewilderment memories of Claudette that are unlike any of those I've previously experienced. One might even say they should not belong to her... and yet... they are hers. I surmise these memories may belong to another Claudette from another Terra world, suggesting that this Old One may have clear preferences at the cosmic buffet for certain souls. It will take more samples of these memories to know if they are in fact from another Claudette or if, and it is possible, I am having troubles deciphering between her actual memories and her creative musings."
"I have often wondered if those trapped here have ever paused to reflect upon the inexplicable significance of this world that defies not only time and space but death. A world made of memories that is neither consistent or constant. Something akin to a collective dream made of the collective memories and beliefs of its inhabitants. Sometimes I wonder if not all worlds were like this in some respect and that reality is what we in fact dream it to be or believe it to be."
"Stories and journals are scattered everywhere. So much to read… and yet I find myself drawn to the scribblings and renditions of the unknown creator I'm calling the Mad Designer. Journals filled with the wild sketches and musings of people I imagine are caught in other parts of this living dimension--people juxtaposed with other Terra worlds and timelines that make little or no sense to who they are or where they come from. The illustrations and notes are foolish, absurd and quite contradictory, and yet they bring moments of levity to my life which does the soul good. I suppose it's a form of absurd escapism I turn to when I'm not reading the more traditional stories. Interestingly enough, I found seventeen versions of a story featuring a killer named Evan written by seventeen versions of the same author from the omniverse. Seventeen similar stories with sometimes subtle, sometimes significant differences. What I find particularly interesting is how the stories are written as fiction in one world and non-fiction in another. It reminds me of Universus Alveo… a theory that suggests that the human mind might very well be equipped with a powerful networking mechanism that reaches out to other worlds for wisdom and knowledge from our other-selves. Some can use their minds in this way and others can't. The theory suggests that those who have experienced trauma in their formative years detach from their reality, allowing them to explore other realities and worlds with relative ease. Artists like magicians and shamans see small things in the big, unexplainable endless dream that is the omniverse and they bring these ideas or insights back to entertain, enlighten and inspire the world. Fiction in one world, non-fiction in another. Everything is real, or nothing is. And here in the Chamber of Blood there are countless horror stories of every variety. So many that it seems to me that one of the unknown prisoners was collecting these stories as a way to discover more about their imprisonment, the Entity and the terrible screams coming from the surrounding abyss. Whether this true or not, I'm not sure, but what I do know is I spent the whole night reading my favorite stories out loud like my father used to do by the fireplace. And the entire time I couldn't help but wonder… How? How could anyone have accessed and assembled such a rich collection of notes, journals and stories? I have no immediate answer, but I suspect by the texture and density of the fog that I may be in a place as complex, mysterious and misunderstood as a black hole—a living, breathing, all-consuming black hole, the serpent of infinity that gorges on its tail, that eats itself endlessly as it spirals downward into the cosmic, Fibonacci stew that is life incomprehensible."
All of this doesn't prove that there are 2 Entities and neither does it prove that Jezabel/The Mad Designer has anything to do with the trials as that aspect is not even mentioned at any point in the entry that's talking about her.
The Entity is cosmic/existential horror. Not Jigsaw.
It's both, the other quotes that i didn't bother to address doesn't contradict the quotes that i did address.
The Entity is conscious, it's literally stated and shown to be as it's capable of using objects to communicate as seen with Billy the Puppet from the SAW tome trailer, it's been striking deals with killers to bring them into the trials or tortured killers if they don't submit to it's will, it's even been known to toy with people such as Talbot in the Human Quotation tome and so many other examples.
All of this is something only you don't seem to get, nobody else except you thinks these headcanons of yours are legit and if you were to ask the lore guys at bhvr, i guarantee you they would say you're wrong as well.
Nowhere in any of the tomes is it directly suggested or outright stated that someone else other than the cosmic force that The Entity is are controlling the trials and none of these quotes supports that notion your headcanon claim.
I'm just gonna leave it at that and not keep this conversation going any further because it's clear that i'm wasting my time on you.
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The question is how much of it is "The Entity", and whether or not emergent sapient personalities can be formed through the thoughts and emotions of those within its realm. Or how much control an individual can amass over the Fog itself. We already know that monstrosities can form, such as The Dredge. But what's the limit?
And what I don't think anyone else seems to get, is the sheer limitless scope of infinity. There is no bound to what is canon and what isn't, just what scope is currently being used, its lens, how it's being observed from a given perspective.
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