The Onryō Rework: Emerging Playstyles [7.1.0 Feedback]
Introduction
So it's been three days since 7.1.0 launched and I've been playing the new Onryō a lot. I've been sort of systematically going through her add-ons and giving each of them a go to see if I can find a niche for them. A lot of them are still underwhelming but there's a few I've been pleasantly surprised by!
A complaint I had about this rework was how her range of skill expression, and multifaceted use of her power (i.e. for tracking) was reduced. I still think this is true in some aspects, but perhaps not as much as I originally thought.
I'm not really sure if this qualifies as feedback -- it's more just a commentary of my thoughts on some playstyles I can see emerging with her but I thought this was the most suitable place to put it. I'll start with going through builds I've had some success with.
Map Traversal Onryō:
This is easily my favourite build on new Onryō. The sheer amount of map pressure it gets you (provided the survivors aren't proactive about disabling TVs -- which they often aren't), is unrivaled. Yes, Videotape Copy reduces your application of Condemned, but that's easily outweighted by how much more frequently you're going to be able to use Projection. Because you're Projecting more, you're also going to get way more value from Bloody Fingernails. The longer speed boost after Projection means that even if survivors spot you crawling out of the TV and run, you don't lose too much distance.
Equip an information perk or two and you'll be able to keep the survivors on their toes for the best part of the match.
Condemnation Onryō:
Iridescent Videotape and Mother's Comb is the way to go if you're looking to consistently get Condemned kills. Mother's Comb allows you to locate survivors when they retrieve a Tape, and Iridescent Videotape means that they have to transport them further distances. The information and longer transport times mean you have a MUCH better chance of intercepting survivors with Tapes, allowing you to easily rack up stacks on them.
Alternatively, Iridescent Videotape and Ring Drawing still works well for getting Condemned kills. Ring Drawing works especially well if you pair it with perks that incentivise survivors to heal. With the current Made For This meta, a lot of survivors are comfortable with staying injured so Thanatophobia or Blood Echo might be worthwhile to encourage them to heal. This combo is more passive than the former option, as it doesn't rely on hitting survivors with Tapes to spread Condemned. You really only need to get them injured and then let them spread stacks themselves.
There's a lot of talk about this strategy being problematic at the moment. Personally, I'm hesitant to definitively say either way, simply because it's still so early into her rework. My preliminary analysis is that it's strong but not overpowered:
- Ring Drawing no longer synergises with slugging. Pre-7.1.0 healing a dying survivor to full health would spread 2 stacks. Now the healer will only gain 1.
- She's countered by splitting up (which is how survivors should already be playing!). Survivors can be in multiple places at once - Onryō can't. If multiple people have Tapes at once, she can't chase them both. Splitting up divides her attention and reduces the amount of pressure felt by any one teammate.
- The build falls apart if survivors deny her early-game pressure. Everyone retrieving a Tape ASAP is the best way to deal with The Onryō. She then has 4 less options to Project to, and she can't passively spread Condemnation through Projection. The Onryō is a snowballing killer. If she can't spread stacks early on, then survivors can work on generators in the mid-to-late game without needing to waste time transporting Tapes.
- Onryō has no chase power. And if she's running Iridescent Videotape and Mother's Comb/Ring Drawing then she's forfeiting any add-ons to help her in a chase (e.g. Reiko's Watch). If you loop her efficiently, she simply cannot deal out the hits needed to make these builds work.
I personally haven't had any issues going up against this build, but a lot of people (at least on the forums) seem displeased with it so I think this is something worth keeping an eye on.
Mindgame Onryō:
Pre-7.1.0, Distorted Photo was an add-on I considered not at all worth its rarity. Sometimes you could use it to prevent a survivor from completing an action (e.g. cleansing a totem) before you could reach them, but it was uncommon and most of the time this add-on would give you no value in a game. Of course this use is retained post-7.1.0, but now the add-on has broader applications.
Now that it reveals the survivor's aura for 4 seconds however, it's a good tool for use in a chase. Tactically Manifesting at loops gives you crucial information about the survivor's movements:
- If they scream then their aura is revealed, allowing you to see if they try to double back around pallets or windows, if they hesitate enough for you to hit them etc. Knowing how the survivor is pathing allows you to better plan how to run a loop.
- If they don't scream, then you aren't getting direct value from the add-on but it can still tell you something important -- the survivor is not looking behind themselves as they run. We often assume that survivors will keep tabs on our movements to avoid being caught out. Hence we walk backwards, use debris to break LoS, path strangely to surprise survivors etc. but sometimes we end up mindgaming ourselves while the survivor simply makes distance. Knowing which survivors are and aren't making use of their third-person camera helps you to be more selective in when and how you try to mindgame.
Another way this add-on indirectly helps is by giving you information about the survivor's builds. If they scream but you don't see their aura, you know they're running Distortion which allows you to make informed decisions later on.
Because you're going to be Demanifesting and Manifesting during a chase, Reiko's Watch, Old Newspaper (and to a lesser extent Mother's Mirror) pair very well with Distorted Photo. Now that Reiko's Watch has been (very unnecessarily) nerfed, it's harder to pull of Demanifested mindgames, but it is still possible -- especially with the help of Distorted Photo.
I've been having a lot of fun pairing this add-on combo with Coup de Grâce to make short work of filler pallets.
One criticism I do have of Distorted Photo, is that emerging from a TV does not count as Manifestation -- why not? The Onryō lost her ability to use Projection as a tracking tool with the introduction of global Condemnation gain. This add-on would be a great way to add it back for those who enjoyed it. It's not as if it would be particularly overpowered -- survivors could look away to prevent being revealed.
Telephone (an incredibly lacklustre Very Rare add-on) would also benefit from applying when Manifesting using Projection. It's weird to me that her other add-ons that activate on Manifestation (e.g. Well Water) work with Projection but Distorted Photo and Telephone don't. Why does Manifestation mean one thing in one add-on description, and something else in another? It seems like an arbitrary distinction and it's unnecessarily confusing for new players. Either Distorted Photo and Telephone should work with all forms of Manifestation too, or their descriptions should be updated to make it clear that they do not apply when Manifesting by any means.
"Where did The Onryō go?" Combo
Admittedly, this one is very gimmicky and is not going to provide consistent value. However, it's a lot of fun when it works. With this build TVs that spawn behind rocks/walls/debris are ideal, as it makes it harder for survivors to see you coming. VCR obfuscates which TV you've Projected to, and Well Water gives you a greater window for stealth after Projecting. This combo pairs well with Dead Man's Switch. Once survivors know you have DMS, they have to make a choice:
- Be cautious and let go of the generator when they hear the global cue that Sadako is using Projection, thus blocking it and wasting time.
- Keep repairing and risk being grabbed by a stealthy Sadako.
Unfortunately this build relies heavily on TV spawns. Usually TVs with LoS on generators are ideal as you waste less time getting to the generator after Projection. This playstyle, however, relies on survivor's uncertainty about your location. If they can see the TV directly then they aren't going to be fooled.
Final Thoughts
Once again this ended up being way longer than I originally intended it to be 😬 There's definitely some uses of her power that I've overlooked too.
I'm curious to know if anyone has found a use for Tape Editing Deck? Pre-7.1.0 I used it a lot for early game slowdown but now it seems to actually hurt The Onryō more than help. Anyways, thanks for reading!
Edit: I've put this in the wrong subforum🤦. Apologies mods. I seem to recall that the old version of the forums had a drop-down list where you could pick which subforum to post to while writing a thread. Am I being oblivious or does that not exist anymore?
Comments
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I personally would like her left how she is, the condemn play style from both sides feels unique and engaging as it puts a lot of multitasking and involvement with tapes which weren’t a thing prior. The times I see it appear overly strong is only when survivors ignore the tapes and get punished for not respecting the condemn, as they should.
Outside of the condemn build I think she’s really bad. If they for some reason nerfed her condemn build she would need massive buffs around everything else.
Still don’t understand why a stealth killer has a lullaby. It’s just silly.
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the condemn play style from both sides feels unique and engaging as it puts a lot of multitasking
Completely agree! I think playing against it is a nice change of pace from the regular gameplay loop. Plus, I like having more things to do as a survivor. After 7 years, running around planks of wood and lifting people off hooks can get tedious, so I personnaly love the killers that have an interesting side objective. Onryō and Pig are two of my favourite killers to go against for this reason.
Still don’t understand why a stealth killer has a lullaby
Agree as well. So many of her add-ons are pointless because of her Lullaby too. Like Clump of Hair reducing visibility range by 6 metres while Demanifsted. What difference does that make if they can hear you coming with loud screechy noises?
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Totally agree!
Some people have said she just hits and runs without chasing but I don’t think this is true at all. If she was a “real” stealth killer then sure I could see this. However because of her lullaby she is essentially never getting free hits like other stealth killers as they always know you’re coming. They may get one hit and then leave, but they had to chase and play a loop for that hit. So I think it’s very disingenuous when people say she doesn’t chase.
My only complaint is how reliant she is on Iri Tape for the condemn build against good survivors and I wish it was base kit. Being able to drop in any tv right next to you is just too fast and easy to be able to reliably build stacks if the players know what they’re doing.
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I really agree with this whole statement. I've played as and against Onyro since the patch dropped.
As survivor, I haven't been condemned. At all. My teammates on the other hand, wait until they quite a few stacks built up before taking care of the tape so they usually die at either 4-5 gens. But I much prefer this Sadako over the old one, I absolutely detested the old Sadako best strat, slugdemn, it was so boring. I feel like this is more interactive if you become unglued from the gen momentarily to make sure you don't die. If you wait too long to grab one, it can be a gg from there - stay on top of the tapes.
As Sadako, I've played with the hook and condemn build. My build consists of hit and run, take a hook when I can, never slugdemn but aim for the condemn if possible. It requires me to do a lot of macro play such as keeping up with survivors who have tapes and punishing those who ignore my condemn and those are the ones who usually die at 4 gens when I'm Sadako. I've really been liking the pacing of the game with this strat and seeing how it all plays out. Chasing is usually a bad idea as she has no chase power (at least, I perform better with my strat above which involves little chasing). I do hooking as part of my condemn build to also build pressure through hook states so it gives me more to work with than just solely condemn.
At the moment, I feel like everyone is still getting used to the changes and how to counter her so she feels more powerful than she is. I enjoy playing Sadako a lot but the couple games I did have with survs who had the idea how to counter her, it was harder when they held onto a tape and played safer and when people figure this out, she will struggle a little more.
I hope the devs don't change her though, I really like this Sadako.
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The times I see it appear overly strong is only when survivors ignore the tapes and get punished for not respecting the condemn, as they should.
well it is design to be that way. its snowball-type power where if you can get an early enough mori, you can win the match but if everyone stays alive for long enough then you can escape. lullaby is there to prevent sadako being too good. I do well enough at base-kit to be fine as killer. sadako is definitely a killer that i will enjoy playing on a regular basis.
My only complaint is how reliant she is on Iri Tape for the condemn build against good survivors and I wish it was base kit. Being able to drop in any tv right next to you is just too fast and easy to be able to reliably build stacks if the players know what they’re doing.
I mean you can use iri-tape if you have enough BP. the add-on is currently legal to use. I think it is strong at the moment because survivor have not adapted to picking up the tape and adjusted to gameplay loop of the killer.
I much prefer this Sadako over the old one, I absolutely detested the old Sadako best strat, slugdemn, it was so boring.
i like the fact that i don't have to camp at all in any capacity and can just focus on my ability and killer gameplay.
Like Clump of Hair reducing visibility range by 6 metres while Demanifsted. What difference does that make if they can hear you coming with loud screechy noises?
you would likely want addon to read: reduce ambient noises by 6 meters when in demanifiest and reduces visibility distance. sadako's add-on are usable add-on as is. so I am fine with how they currently are.
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Yea theres no way she is staying the way she currently is.
She legit ignores the hook mechanics, ignores any form of generator slow down perks, and just slug/tunnels so she can mori everyone without getting a single hook stage.
Teleport spam (10s cooldown), and just hit a few M1's....
This is not intended game mechanics by any stretch
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As survivor, I haven't been condemned. At all.
Neither! I genuinely don't think managing Tapes is that hard. My solo queue teammates somehow keep messing it up though. A common thing I see is survivors only going to pick up tapes when they're at 5 stacks, at which point they get hit and are now Condemned. Practically every Condemn kill I see is a result of a massive failure on the survivors' part.
I think that once survivors adjust, there'll be a sharp decline in Condemn kills.
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reduce ambient noises by 6 meters when in demanifiest and reduces visibility distance
This would be good!
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She legit ignores the hook mechanics
Any killer with high mobility can ignore hook mechanics. Nurse and Blight do this all the time. Instead of hooking, they just aim to down everyone, and once everyone is on the floor then they hook them all. This is not something unique to Onryō, and I've only encountered a couple of Onryōs since the rework who have actually attempted it. Most I've seen just go for hooks as normal.
ignores any form of generator slow down perks
I don't understand what you mean by this. Do you mean slowdown perks don't work on her or they work too well on her?
just slug/tunnels
Tunnelling is not an efficient use of the new Onryō's power. You want to get stacks on everyone to slow the game down rather than just focusing on one person. Not to mention, she is still just an M1 killer. She has no chase power and can be looped. If you try tunneling anyone who is decent at chasing, you're going to struggle.
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This may be my personal opinion from my own playstyle but I really think Iri tape is not good, like at all. Ideally you want to have an idea of were survivors will put their tapes in, usually they will stick to grabbing the tapes closest to gens and then moving on to the closest TV, so you usually just teleport to the TV closest to the one that was turned off to hit them and get those sweet condemnation stacks. This add-on basically just tells survivors where they are supposed to go and makes them more unpredictable, which was one of the bigger issues the old condemnation playstyle had. It may waste some of the survivor's time, but it really isn't worth it.
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This sounds like a fair argument if you’re trying to focus and tunnel 1 person out, however trying to micromanage that with 4 people simultaneously without Iri Tape is impractical in most cases.
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Neat builds. I usually run Iri Tape and VCR with deadmans, but I might give the well water a try cuz' that sounds interesting.
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Any killer with high mobility can ignore hook mechanics. Nurse and Blight do this all the time. Instead of hooking, they just aim to down everyone, and once everyone is on the floor then they hook them all. This is not something unique to Onryō, and I've only encountered a couple of Onryōs since the rework who have actually attempted it. Most I've seen just go for hooks as normal.Nurse and blight do not ignore hook mechanics that is completely false. Noone loads up the match and try's to 4 slug and THEN hook, you realize how difficult that is? And even if thats the case, they had to hook you.
If you mean slug 4 seperate people and wait for bleed out that is even more difficult given nurse and blight have no way to find out where the other survivors are or instant mori you. Sadako can. Every single match has been the same, I've seen a couple hooks because it was the last two survivors and the match was over.
I don't understand what you mean by this. Do you mean slowdown perks don't work on her or they work too well on her?Ignores slow down perks as in she doesnt care about gen progression. She can just take ALL information perks.
Tunnelling is not an efficient use of the new Onryō's power. You want to get stacks on everyone to slow the game down rather than just focusing on one person. Not to mention, she is still just an M1 killer. She has no chase power and can be looped. If you try tunneling anyone who is decent at chasing, you're going to struggle.Tunneling out the first fully condemned survivor, which is relatively quick, and then the game is over. All you have to do is zone them out and they cant do anything. Even around killer shack with another pallet gym right out the door it does not matter. M1 hits happen in games im not sure why people keep repeating this argument, as its nonsense. Noone here is a tournament level player, you get hit by M1's. You think plague never hits anyone once all her fountains are used up or has no reasonable access to it? Shes worse at chase then onryo by the way.
Also if you care for that kill rate chart, which to some extent we should. She was fine before the rework. She now just has this huge, unreasonable buff now, to the rate of her condemn. It needs to be dialed back a bit. I get interacting with a killer mechanic is fine, I am on board with that.
But the match becomes ENTIRELY about tapes at several points in the match. And that is the problem with her. Her teleport (10s cd) spam, TV availability.. encourages her to just slug and tunnel.
And if you run comb/ iri tape it just becomes so broken you may as well load up and say I win before every match.
Edit: Whats the function to quote different sentences?
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Noone loads up the match and try's to 4 slug and THEN hook, you realize how difficult that is?
This really isn't difficult to do for a good Nurse or Blight and it's actually a pretty well established strategy. Opting to not hook until everyone is on the ground means you don't have to waste time picking up, carrying, and hooking, so you can move from one chase straight into the next. It's incredibly effective on high mobility killers, and if you give it a few goes you'll realise just how much time you waste in the average match taking survivors to hooks. Then there's The Twins, whose entire kit is perfectly suited for a slugging playstyle.
even if thats the case, they had to hook you.
What difference does it really make? If a Blight manages to get everyone slugged, the match is -- for all intents and purposes -- over. The actual bulk of the trial has proceeded with no hook interactions. You could argue that there's a chance of wiggling free or successfully attempting escape, but the chances are so slim and the Blight would almost certainly put a stop to things quickly. In this way, the hook serves the same purpose as The Onryō's Inexorable Stare.
Ignores slow down perks as in she doesnt care about gen progression. She can just take ALL information perks.
This is absolutely not the case. Not bringing a slowdown perk is a terrible idea as any killer really.
Tunneling out the first fully condemned survivor, which is relatively quick, and then the game is over.
If survivors are letting themselves reach anything near fully Condemned early into a match, then The Onryō deserves the win. Condemnation coming into play quickly is a MASSIVE failure on the survivors' part to manage Tapes. If everyone takes a Tape as soon as the initial TV cooldown is up, then there's really no way she can efficiently deal out stacks. Her map traversal is limited due to TVs being disabled, her Projection is not going to passively inflict anyone with Condemn, and it's not feasible to go around and hit everyone with a Tape if you split up.
I don't mean to sound rude, but I've not once been Condemned by Onryō since her rework. Managing Tapes really isn't that difficult, and I think if people are getting Condemn killed constantly then they ought to practice more.
Even around killer shack with another pallet gym right out the door it does not matter.
Killer shack is one of the worst tiles for Onryō. If a survivor runs me to shack, I often just drop chase and go find someone else because trying to deal with that window on a killer with no chase power is a massive time waste. If people are having trouble running an M1 killer with a good tile setup, then I think they need to improve on their chase skills.
M1 hits happen in games im not sure why people keep repeating this argument, as its nonsense.
M1 hits do happen in most games, but that is not the point we're making. We're not saying it's possible to avoid getting hit ever, we're saying that The Onryō has no tools to make those hits happen quickly like a Nurse or a Blight does. If survivors are good at looping, they're going to waste a lot of The Onryō's time before she's able to deal out those hits. And in that time, generators are going to be repaired.
You think plague never hits anyone once all her fountains are used up
Of course she still hits people, but once again, she has no means to do it quickly. It's not about whether hits happen or not (because they're inevitable in most games), it's about the rate a killer can deal them out. That's why not cleansing against Plague is such an effective strategy. Without Corrupt Purge, she is just an M1 killer. Deny her Corrupt Purge and then she has to waste time chasing survivors the usual way, and suddenly generators fly by.
Whats the function to quote different sentences?
I do it by clicking the pilcrow icon on the left side of the text box, clicking the quotation mark icon (which should open up a drop-down menu) and then clicking the option that says: " Quote.
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