What do you even do against a survivor that doesn't fall for mindgames
I feel like you can just be looped infinitely if the stars align? Had a match with jungle gyms near each other, and the survivors would just switch loops whenever the windows got blocked. I never gained any distance and don't even know how I could, they always played perfectly
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chase someone else.
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Bots can’t be mindgamed but they also don’t really loop. They just hold W until they get stuck on objects.
Real survivors who outthink you are just better, at least in those moments. Not much you can do but try to out think them.
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Leave them and find someone else. Try and chase them later when they aren’t at such a strong tile.
Or if they don’t fall for any mind game, then something you can try is pretending you are going for a mind game but don’t actually do it.
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Are you supposed to be able to do something against someone outplaying you at every turn?
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You need to know when to leave a strong area of the map. Unless you're gaining something from being there i.e removing some strong pallets.
Like if you see a survivor that's got some distance on you going to shack then just let them run to shack and move away. You'll eventually catch someone off-guard later in the match and break the shack pallet much faster. Also most tiles have optimal ways to push survivors off running them that don't involve mind games. Maybe learn those if you haven't already. Sometimes you can mind game yourself on loops when the best approach is to just pressure a pallet and get it out the way as fast as possible.
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But it's not like I can possibly play better, not saying I'm the best player ever but all my killer (twins) can do without victor is walk forward and attack it's not like there's a huge kit at my disposal to outplay them with, all I can do is mimdgame and if they don't fall for that I'm screwed
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If it's a strong tile that doesn't have much counterplay your best bet is, probably, to either leave the chase, or if it is a pallet, just chase them around it until they have to drop it and get rid of it.
Ideally, just find a weaker runner. Try to force them to some of these areas because they will probably use the pallets quicker. This will make it less strong for chasing the first person later.
When using twins you can also use Charlotte to stand in the way of some openings and then use victor for the hits.
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Well the first step to improving is removing the first bit from your response.
You can always play better, if your opponent isn't falling for your mindgames, then your mindgames aren't good enough and its time for a change of strategy. Which can be multiple things.
I don't play Twins, so I can't provide any solid advice, but from playing against Victor a lot I know that I've been coraled into an unsafe area which makes me unable to dodge him effectively.
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Kind of hard to help considering I dont know what exactly you mean. Mind games could literally be anything.
Best advice is to practice in 1v1's to improve on your ability to chase
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Very good post. I would simply add OP that learning ASAP which pallets/tiles are unsafe and therefore can be mind gamed is very important. You can waste a lot of time trying a mind game when forcing the pallet to be dropped is the best thing to do.
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Well your first step on Twins is to use Victor unless you're hooking someone or someone has Victor hostage. That's about the only time you should be in Charlotte. You shouldn't ever be doing an M1 chase on Charlotte. Zero reason to do that outside of a survivor holding Victor.
The Twins are a flowchart killer and step 1 on the flowchart is always "deploy Victor".
Beyond that, if you have a survivor that you can't mindgame, force the pallet down, zone, and break it. And try to path in a way that prevents them from chaining the tiles together or getting fast vaults at the adjacent tile.
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Interesting take. But can you really call it outplaying, if the survivor simply knows where to wait and watch out? Because at that point there is no right play for the average M1 killer other than brute forcing and hoping the others will mess up.
There are tiles that cannot be mind gamed. Shack is one great example. In the hands of someone capable the killer has no chance to outplay the survivor. Mainly because the killer can be seen everywhere and there is a literal safe spot for survivors to wait at. That has nothing to do with the killer not using the "right" mind game. Because there is none.
There are a lot of loops in the game where your best play as killer is to just brute force your way through the ressources until you can eventually get a hit.
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"Just leave and chase someone else"
This was the same defense survivors used for actual infinites when the game first came out.
When survivors got basekit endurance coming off the hook, killers simply counted to 10 and then swung, so the devs increased the duration of the endurance.
Survivors can do the same thing with window-blockers. Go somewhere else and then come back when the first window has re-opened. The devs should increase how long windows are blocked for.
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If the Survivor knows how to do checkspots properly then yes they are playing well? There are a ton of people that lose mindgames at shack. Its definitely not common at all for a survivor to be good at mindgames.
There are also plenty of tools an M1 killer can use to shut down a tile, Bamboozle is one of them. Proper Red Stain management also comes into play as well. Respectfully, saying there's nothing you can do is just an admission of being lacking.
Bruteforcing through a tile should always be a last resort unless its done strategically I.E, you know the Survivor panic drops a lot so you force them into god pallet loops to get rid of them early. But that has nothing to do with losing mindgames and everything to do with playing the map intelligently, knowing when it call it quits on a chase is part of being a good killer player. If you're playing vs someone really good you shouldn't be chasing at shack anyways unless its in your 3-gen.
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Brute force. Still threaten to mindgame to prevent them from playing the loop optimally but just walk at them till windows get blocked and pallets are used
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Red stain management is just a different term for mind games. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. And there are a lot of survivors that know how to play safe loops. They are playing well but really at that point the killer themself cannot play "good". Because they don't have an option to play good. Other than, again, brute forcing the loop.
Killers cannot move through walls or fly (other than Nurse of course). If the killer can be seen, then the red stain is does nothing and mind gaming solely relies on the survivor being bad. Again, shack is a great example for that. As well as many tiles on the Azarov's maps.
Of course perks like Bamboozle exist but keep in mind that most M1 killers rely on STBFL to keep chases short (or suffer from 15+ seconds of Shift + W after a hit) and the killer's perk slots are highly limited. I think we can all agree that perks shouldn't be band aid fixes for poor game design. Otherwise, why is BT base kit then?
And really, how is Bamboozle any different from brute forcing the loop, which you said should be a last resort. You know there is no way to outplay the loop, so you shut it down and move chase to the next loop.
Saying the killer shouldn't chase a good survivor in a safe loop is basically the equivalent of saying the killer shouldn't chase too much on survivor sided maps when they face good survivors. Which only leaves camping as an alternative...
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It's worth mentioning that we're talking about an extreme minority of the killer roster if we're talking about M1 killers with zero tools for a safe tile. Almost every killer on the roster has a power that can directly lead to a hit or force the pallet down quickly. These scenarios often get discussed as if every killer on the roster outside of Nurse is Myers or Legion.
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Theres no set in stone tactic, it depends on the situation or what you want. If theres other survivors who are much easier, go kill them and see if the good/smart one is a team player and try to take hits or a down. If they're not falling for mind games but are effectively stuck there we brute force it. If theres only 1 other 1 and you really want em, slug the other and now you got alot of time to try at that specific one. We generally prefer brute force, but if that survivor is at a super safe area and will take alot of time we go after the others so theres less resources and less pressure on gens. We advocate this action.
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Oh definitely. But Sadako, Myers, Pig, Trapper (you cannot trap everything, you are not Hag), Legion, Freddy (technically has his snares but they're mostly useless) and to a degree Oni and Ghostface exist. With all of them you'll find yourself in positions where you don't have anything to help you in chase eventually. And that's where the problems begin.
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Depends how much you vary your mind gaming. It's very easy to fall into a pattern and a good surv will work it out quite quickly. I'll sometimes notice myself doing this, then deliberately switch it up. Like I'll respect the F out of pallets, 2/3 times with the same surv then later I'll make a hail mary lunge when they're on a pallet and get a cheeky down because they don't expect me to just commit.
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