Promised anti-camping mechanic
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was going to be some anticamping mechanic. I cannot find any new information, but where is it?
And are there any work about antitunneling mechanic?
Because it's getting pretty stale and boring. Almost every killer-player go by this algorithm:
- camp/tunnel out first survivor at 5 gens and get effortless win
- try to play, but if got down to two gens, tunnel/camp survivors out one by one and get a guaranteed win.
- if no down with two gens remaining, DC.
With little exception, 4/5 matches go by this scenario. I really would like it be quite the opposite: dunces be an exception, not players that put at least some effort into gameplay.
Now it's just snap of the finger to win. If snap didn't work, DC.
So, where is this anticamping mechanic and what happened to it?
Comments
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It was only mentioned during the Anniversary-Stream. They did not give any ETA.
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Goddamnit....
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If that's how your games are going then the anti-camp mechanic will probably result in even more DCs.
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Fine by me. Result would be the same, next match would be even quicker, plus camper/tunneler will suffer, unlike current conditions.
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They probably realized it was a bad idea.
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Promised FOV accessibility option for those that get motion sickness who would like to play Killer... :C
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Explain why it's a bad idea to nerf facecamp, even tunneling is fun compared to dying on first hook to a bubba
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How would they implement this? Surely this will just lead to campers/tunnelers playing as Wesker, going away from the hook a small distance, then just dash back the second there's an unhook? Most Wesker's do this religiously anyway as it is! Will just lead to even more hate than he has got recently as people realise hanging around the hook with, say clown and his bottles for example, is useless if that update ever happened.
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Because the game is currently balanced around camping and tunneling. In order to add this the game would need to be rebalanced heavily simultaneously. The game currently isn't balanced for 12 hook games.
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Because there are situations where the survivors give you every reason to camp someone out. If I hook someone and all 3 survivors swarm me around the hook, then guess what I'll do?
I'm not going to run across the map and wait for them to reset and remove any pressure I have on them. The same is true when even 1 survivor is obviously near the hook. 2 survivors are not progressing faster than I am in that situation. When all survivors are injured and I have someone on a hook, then why wouldn't I camp them? Before they can even attempt to get an exchange they will need to heal.
By nerfing tunneling and camping you also make the survivor role more forgiving for mistakes because you take away any possibility for the killer to capitalise on their mistakes, which incentivises them to play even more reckless. This is already a problem. I've seen a lot more Deliverances over the past couple days. Why could that be? Surely it's not because they can simply rush the hook, get an unhook because I can no longer stop them and get their Deliverance for free, is it?
The funny thing about tunneling is that right now it's stronger than it has ever been. Because instead of healing, they'll rush gens with Resilience, which also takes away the possibilities of a safe bodyblock. Instead of running DS and OTR there are a lot MFTs and WoOs. Basically survivors try to progress their own objective as fast as possible and completely ignore any defenses they might need. 1 year ago before 6.1.0 killers actually had a risk when tunneling someone. That risk is no longer there. And that is to a degree on the survivors themselves, that make it so easy and so much more necessary.
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Okay fair enough, everyone is proxy camping/tunneling anyway it's the meta, I was talking more about actual facecamping like staying in 5m radius of the hook with oneshot characters, just played right now against a pinky finger clown facecamping you can't even trade it's a bit cringe, imo even if they do nothing against camping they can at least deactivate chainsaws and exposed effects
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The Pinky Finger needs a full on rework, agreed. As for chainsaws and other insta down abilities, you can't solve this problem quite so easy. If Bubba's chainsaw is deactivated within a 5 metres range around the hook, then he'll just wait 5.1 metres away and down both of you immediately after the unhook. So you'd have to increase the radius. 8 metres and we'd still have the same problem. 10 metres would still not change it.
12 metres might actually do something because then you'd have a realistic chance to unhook before you go down. But 12 metres is also quite a lot. Especially on The Game, Midwich and RPD this would be highly abusable because this radius would work across different floors. When Bubba carries you down the basement stairs then it is a fact that you will die down there, if it is his wish. Any potential fix would cause more problems than it would solve. At least until the announced self-unhook mechanic is added.
They could change something about the base BT though that would help a bit. Base BT should make the survivor lose collision with the killer. That way it would at least be a bit harder to turn 1 basement hook into 2. It would also solve another issue (BT bodyblocks => tunneling).
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That's a basic substitution of concept.
There are situations SOMETIMES, but ABUSING cheap ways to almost guaranteed win is rampant. So why defend common exploit with rare situation?
First of all, in your example when survivors swarm the hook, it's trade. Nothing wrong with that. No need to camp.
Second of all, camping in EGC is pretty ok and no one complains about it.
To the third, whe could block with rare situations every change:
- sometimes killer have too much slowdown, 90 seconds gen time is too much
- sometimes killer need to down unhooked survivor, 5 second BT is too much
etc. etc.
I think everyone could survive if "sometimes" something is not available anymore, but at the same time HUGE amount of low-mid MMR players would be happy and some killer-players finally start to learn how to play.
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They said it’s coming sometime this year
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You miss the point. There are a number of ways where survivors make camping the absolute right option for the killer. Removing these takes away any risk in that and allows survivors to brute force themselves through the killer, who when their best strategies are punished / removed from the equation becomes nothing more than a tool for survivors to get BP.
This is a general issue with the game. That survivors can play reckless and beat the killer by doing so because they simply lack the power to prevent that. They can't really solve it either because then solo queue becomes unplayable.
I'm not against an anti-camping mechanic by any means. But you need to understand that this will not just remove the camping part and make the game more enjoyable for everyone. Because this will result in a nerf to killers in general and a buff to survivors. A heavy nerf actually. And it would need to result in compensatory buffs. Buffs that might make everything worse.
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I’m not gonna lie, EVERY SINGLE GAME that I have played this past week has been killers camping, tunneling, and bleeding. I totally get when it’s a killer here or there doing it, but c’mon. This is getting to be a little too much. It will be at the start of game or after we pop one gen. I even have recordings of it because it got to be too much. Even killers just sitting there throwing bottles at me or singularity shooting his eggs or whatever at me while I’m bleeding out. It’s getting out of hand. I haven’t seen any survivors being toxic and I will be the one to say when survivors are being toxic. We get it, everyone wants event bps but there becomes a point where it becomes too much.
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Be careful what you wish for is the most striking thing that comes to mind when I look at this thread.
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I don’t think killers understand that’s our main objective during this event. It’s the event offering for us to get extra bps after completing gens. Only this event have I seen “gen rushing”. Even when survivors aren’t gen rushing, killers claim “well idk what your progress is on gens” as if that’s an excuse. It’s also a reason why they are trying to push BBQ&C for this event. This whole thing about killers having to “apply pressure” has been overused. If anything the survivors have been putting pressure on the killers with trying to do their objective. I personally think killers are so used to winning and getting what they want, that they can’t handle when gens get done fast. This isn’t for every killer either. Like I said before I’m ok with the bleeding, tunneling, camping etc when it’s last resort and it’s not every game I play.
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Have you tried doing gens?
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Killer players do unterstand that perfectly fine. That doesn't mean they will just accept to lose every single game during the event. And seeing as many survivors have noticed how effective this is, I doubt it will go back to normal after the event. It is literally the survivors' only objective.
The faster the survivor progress the faster the killer will try to progress too. That's how it works. You said it yourself. The survivors put pressure on the killer. That is normal for this game but when 3 gens are done in the first 80 seconds of the match and the next 2 follow suit then the killer is forced to eliminate someone to even stand a chance of winning. For survivors something like this happens rarely. Most of the time 1 person just gives up when the match doesn't go their way and there is no coming back from that. But the game isn't over until it's over.
Camping and tunneling don't work as a last resort anymore. When the game takes 5 minutes on average, then the killer can't decide they will start to tunnel or camp because they only have 3 hooks at 1 gen left. In that situation the suvivors brute themselves through and win anyway. You either start the tunneling / camping early on or you will need to try and slug to make a comeback.
I could probably go on a win streak right now, if I was willing to tunnel every single game. There is nothing stopping a killer from doing so and it is the most effective way to win in general. Camping is more situational. Killers don't need to worry about any anti-tunnel perks because they aren't used anyway. So why wouldn't the killer tunnel at 5 gens? This almost guarantees they'll win.
I personally don't do that but I've stopped going for 12 hooks. Instead I will just chase whoever I find, which mostly leads to a kill at 5 to 6 hooks and is considered hard tunneling by some. If I had any reason at all not to tunnel (even just a simple bodyblock), then I wouldn't do it. I prefer to go for many hooks but when gens fly and survivors start predropping, then this is not an option. Your chases take forever and you can't slow the game down naturally.
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The proposed anti-tunneling mechanic was that if a killer is too close to the hook for too long, the survivor can escape freely, and this turns off during EGC. Just want to clear that up off the top.
I really hope they get the anti-camp mechanic in: primary reason, its one of those things that devastate soloq but SWFs handle without a problem. SWFs can communicate to just stay on gens, who goes for the reassurance, and when to do a hook trade and/or team rescue, while against soloq an early game hook camp can just basically decide the game.
If I hook someone and all 3 survivors swarm me around the hook, then guess what I'll do?I'm not going to run across the map and wait for them to reset and remove any pressure I have on themThis doesn't make sense given what they are proposing. It's not like you lose the game if you spend too long around the hook.
In the above situation with the anti-camp mechanic, you chase the survivors. Now, if they manage to keep you there for an extended period of time, the person on the hook gets free. But, if three people are truly there then they probably could have just freed the person anyway.
And while we don't have the numbers, in the new set up you can still camp, there's just a timer for how long. If a survivor is about to progress to the next hook stage, it makes perfect sense for the killer to go and face camp. And with an anti-camp mechanic we now have a structure when and when not camping is abusive.
By nerfing tunneling and camping you also make the survivor role more forgiving for mistakes because you take away any possibility for the killer to capitalise on their mistakes, which incentivises them to play even more reckless.Right now, the math on camping is simplistic: take two wounds to get the person free (presuming no insta down abilities). With an anti-camp mechanic it adds more variety. One survivor could try and run the killer near the hook, potentially allowing an escape with no injuries, but it now creates the possibility for the killer to get an additional down and hook with no escape.
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I don't believe these motion could lead to anything worse than it is. Camping and tunneling are absolue worst. If devs in some way remove/punish these mechanic, they can start to tuning things back to ballance if needed (buff killers, nerf some perks, etc). But the core problem will be removed. All todays bandaids are literally "putting an ointment on late-stage gangrene" - Reassurance, 5 seconds BT, etc. It doesn't help with the main problem, but buffing comp-SWF teams even more.
Again, in my 1600h I've never had to come to camping before doors opened, like never (I don't like easy wins, plus this "strategy" doesn't work with strong teams, that means it is trash strategy). Maybe it's different after 10000h, but I (and majority of casual playerbase) don't really care.
TL;DR
Proper way would be cut the problem completely and tune gameplay from that point, rather than deliver panic-bandaids that increase chaos, problems and frustrations even further. At least there will be gameplay.
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Self unhook will make less time to repair gens.
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I don't see a problem with it from the killers side. Issue I have with surviver is I will run the killer all 5 gens and once the doors open finally get caught, and as soon as the door gets opened all 3 "teammates" will immediately leave. As both a killer and a surviver I hate survivers. Ether being crap teammates or being toxic to the killer win or lose. I say a change needs to be made to survivers so they are better at helping each other. Can't tell you how many times I've died on 1st hook cuz no one came. But if you only care about killers leaving the hook, then encourage buffs to killer perks that encourage leaving like devour hope. When I run that I always sprint as far from the hook as fast as possible.
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Kinda invalidates the whole no hook grab. "Yeah, killers can still get the trade". Proceeds to eliminate a need to trade by not needing the survivors to trade or unhook as long as they can make the killer run close to the survivor on hook, but also force the killer away from hook since they can't commit to a chase close to hook anyways.
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I could be wrong, but I swear it was sometime this fall. Hopefully soon, it's a desperately needed feature.
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Both hands on that. Playing survivor is total trash. I could count with fingers how many times killers NOT camp, it's pandemic. 4 of 5 just going for cheap win right of the bat and nothing can be done.
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Wait wait wait, you mean it is balanced around "bad killers vs. good survivors"? What about good killers vs. good survivors? Or bad killers vs. bad survivors (which is the majority)?
Is it balanced around GG at 5 hooks when no reason to play further? Or is it balanced around boosing killer-player fractured ego? Please, explain.
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I was gonna say anyone standing near a hooked player for a few seconds, the killer should be hit with a slow fatigue or get blinded or gets blurry vision as a punishment for a few seconds, but that could be difficult to go by. I was also going to say people can report the killers to be unfair players and the developers could add that feature to the killers who's most reported to be campers, but that function could easily be abused.
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No, anything that involves player's responsibility would never work (otherwise there won't be any campers in the first place), it will be abused out of grudge.
Also easily counterable ways won't work either: standing still easily countered by not standing still. I haven't seen Insidious Bubba in ages, but camping Bubba - every time.
It's just have to be punished. Basekit Reassurance, slowing hook progress (up to zero within 10 meters), etc. But it's everytime meet waves of objections from campers that scared they lose easy wins.
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yeah lol no. camping at almost any point in the game almost always hurts the killer, so giving the survivor getting camped a little extra help punishes the killer more for not improving at the game and just trying to farm easy sacrifices
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while i do want that mechanic to finally do not allow people to just face camping with deadlock and stuff over and over.
I rather prefer that to be delayed a bit more untill other topics get fixed like the current unhealthy MFT situation.
as far as i know that mechanic if it is the same we heared on the anniversary stream , its gonna be terrible and easily abusable for survivor on many maps with gens near to hooks and forcing the killer to lose when the survivor is the one doing a bad play.
best example lets see if I hook a guy in the shack (NOT BASEMENT) and another guy loops that area intentionally, it means that as long as I keep chasing that guy , the other guy that is hooked is gonna be able to unhook themself for free?
(if "YES" thats gonna be awful)
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I still cannot quite get what are these "for free"? If you one survivor running from you around hook, another one have to save the hooked one, instead of doing gens. If he decides not too, you get two hooked survivors and that's almost certain GG. Survivor on the hook is incapacitated, one in chase, only two can do something. I cannot see any "free" results. Swarming around hook lead to all being injured and potentially multiply down.
But what I can see as "free", is standing near hook doing literally nothing and get a win.
Is it somehow with idea that killer is entitled to kill survivor after single hook no matter what? I always believed that hooking a survivor is progressing one hookstage, not that this survivor has to die for sure.
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Yes you really didn't get the example.
What they mean is if the Anti-Camp mechanic with "self free unhook if the killer stays in a certain radius" without "unless you are in a chase".
One survivor (A) on hook around shack (not even in the basement), another (B) loops the killer for 20-30 seconds through and around shack (not unrealistic even without god pallet), then thanks to Anti-Camp mechanic survivor A gets off the hook and killer hasn't gotten survivor B.
So with this the killer ends with nothing and the survivor maybe with an injury but nothing else.
Did I get that right?
Oh and also since you (@EvilSerje) want to preferably "cut out" camping AND tunneling from the game, the killer can't even try to get the unhooked survivor down, so they most probably Bodyblock for the looper and the killer really end with nothing to show for it, hence the unhook would be "free".
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Also, I personally would LOVE to see a time when such radical one sided measure would be taken by the devs. I have said so multiple times over the years occasionally.
I would love if they would just cut camping, tunneling and prolonged slugging straight out of the game without immediate compensation like you propose here.
I am really curious if this game would survive the 6-12 weeks "bleeding" from the "wound" made by this "cut/amputation" until killer would get something to soften the blow.
Casual killer are already just as unhappy with the game as survivor, in general.
Edit: Oh and of course we know that the bandaids/ointments also won't be removed until 6-12 weeks later from history.
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best example lets see if I hook a guy in the shack (NOT BASEMENT) and another guy loops that area intentionally, it means that as long as I keep chasing that guy , the other guy that is hooked is gonna be able to unhook themself for free?(if "YES" thats gonna be awful)So we don't know the time a killer can be around the hook, or the range, which will impact this, but as @EvilSerje said I don't see the problem.
1: If there is a survivor that can loop you for that long and in that small of a space, you are probably in trouble anyway.
2: It's a risky play on their part. If the survivor trying to loop gets downed their team is in a lot of trouble.
3: Even if you run into a situation where the survivor could loop you in that small of space, you don't have to stay there. There are two other survivors out there healing or doing gens that you can go find if you are in a bad spot.
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" the killer can't even try to get the unhooked survivor down, so they most probably Bodyblock for the looper and the killer really end with nothing to show for it, hence the unhook would be "free"."
Ahaha. Why? Why? Doesn't killer has a weapon? How is it "bodyblocking", survivor is invulnerable? Killer can't hit new survivor?
Or killer want a kill "for free" from first hook?
Measure is utterly not onesided, it's REMOVING currently onesided measure. The main idea is to force killers to PLAY the game (chase all survivors, patrol gens), not getting a win for free.
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Hitting a bodyblocking survivor wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for bad map design.
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Waov people do actually defend camping... Guys please remember that it is a game and when you just stand still next to the hook area, you are not playing the game and you are taking hostage the person on the hook as well. Games are supposed to be fun, nobody is here to wait on the hook so that you can win easily. Game should be balanced on something else not on camping. This requires lots of change yet it isn't true to defend any kind of unfun game style (for both sides).
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buddy u forgot that things like styptic on medkits , or even a syringe play can happen on shack if someone loops that , drops the pallet , get fully heal and keeps running around shack , and because of the anti-camp stuff they might be able to even get a free unhook on those cases. which is something am worried , because yeah on solo Q it might not happen that often but on SWF is gonna be annoying as hell.
thats gonna be a nightmare mostly on RPD - Garden of joy , etc.
the thing is that they are adding an anti-camp mechanic first when survivor had reassurance instead of fixing the problematic maps first which is bad , also knowing that MFT are making those maps even more broken.
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if you are bad at survivor you know that intentionally looping next to the hooked survivor is a bad play , yeah some killers can abuse that by intentionally playing bad , but what if as killer someone decides to do that to you and run to a hooked survivor on purpose to IDK trying to use a strong tile and if that guy has a lot of second chance perks((DH, styptic , Syringe) your only options becomes.
i should let them unhook someone for free or either be punished anyway by a mechanic that instead of focusing on prevent camping seem like more like cheese mechanic that rewards survivor for doing the bad play of looping close to someone hooked.
YES a killer should be totally punished when facecamping intentionally and not even trying to go for someone else , but not the ones that are forced to stay because a guy is just playing poorly and leading the killer into hooked survivors , which is pretty common.
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The guy that playing poorly will be hooked next, no matter if first survivor is unhooked or not. But people that defend camping think that's it is not fair to unhook someone while he chasing another survivor, hooked survivor have to die no matter what.
The core of the problem have to be solved. Yes, in some RARE cases it would be unfair, but we are talking about REGULAR abusing, that deny playing from both survivor and killer too.
And the main thing, that people still don't want to hear (I understand campers, but I'm talking about normal players) is that when killers will be punished for camping, devs can start fixing other things (maps, styptics, etc).
Now it's leading to more and more gap between players.
Low-mid MMR get constantly stomped by not very skilled killers even without camping, with camping they no, not win, even not play (and also getting harassed, slugged to bleedout and other very kind experience). But when devs try to somehow help MAJORITY of playerbase, top-tier survivors stomp killers with ease (Plust campers end up on high MMR without skill, where they produce even more noise how game is unfair and camping is the only way to kill at least one survivor)
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I'll be shocked if we ever see this implemented in the game. It'll never make it past the PTB because SWFs will find a way to abuse it.
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I didn't read the whole topic, but from my view it's always the survivor's fault. 8 out of 10 of my games as survivor, my teammates are bricks who always throw the game one way or another. 1 out of those games it's me who throws the game and the remaining other one is one teammate who loops the killer for several gens and gets the game.
I can't express how tired and annoyed I am at my fellow survivors. It really makes me want to quit playing the game but I know I will not because there's no other game like DbD.
And as for killer, I used to have pretty decent matches in which I could win by working it hard but as of last month, I'm getting stomped every other game. And yeah, on the rare occassion I tunnel it's because of a survivor trying to abuse basekit BT for bodyblocking and gets what they were coming for, just to whine and be toxic about it later.
Sure, there are a bunch of overly abusive killers out there, but most of the times if my teammates did something even remotely intelligent we could stand a chance.
Edit: Definitely it's survivors who're taking the fun out of this game.
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buddy u forgot that things like styptic on medkits , or even a syringe play can happen on shack if someone loops that , drops the pallet , get fully heal and keeps running around shackSo a survivor has burned through all of their resources to get an unhook. Okay, still sounds like a risky play that might be impressive if pulled off. But there is a strategy trade here - in this case the survivors have burned their resources, at risk, instead of just sending two survivors to unhook or one to do a hook trade.
Though it's worth pointing out this would be even worse if no one was on hook. They could do the same looping structure with the medkit resources and it would be even worse for the killer as three survivors could be on gens. In both situations the killer has to make a decision on whether or not to commit.
i should let them unhook someone for free or either be punished anyway by a mechanicYou don't have to let them do anything, but you do have to make choices. This is like saying survivors shouldn't be able to go in different directions because the killer can only chase one of them.
that rewards survivor for doing the bad play of looping close to someone hooked.It's still probably a bad play. If you lead the killer right to the hook and don't have the ability to do amazing looping, you're still going to have to do a trade and/or get downed. It's not if the killer enters the hook radius the survivor gets a free unhook, the killer has to be in the area for some time (we currently have no idea what amount).
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A lot of people seem to be forgetting the specifics of the system BHVR proposed, and in addition, not understanding that the specific values of those effects will make a big difference.
For starters, the zone in which the killer will be penalised for occupying is graduated. I believe the distances they gave us were within 10m, 10-16m and further than 16m. The point of this is so that a killer can’t straddle the 10m line to avoid the penalty altogether, as a mix of -10m and 10-16m will still incur the penalty, but a mix of 10-16m and 16m+ won’t.
Secondly, other survivors being within those zones will reduce the rate, on a per-survivor basis.
Hypothetical examples:
- The gauge to unhook yourself requires 50 charges.
- The killer being in the 10-16m zone charges this gauge by 1c/s
- The killer being within the 10m zone charges it by 1.5c/s
- The gauge doesn’t begin charging for 5 seconds to allow the killer to leave the area.
This would mean a proxy camp at 10-16 meters would have to last 55 seconds (most of the 60 second timer) before the survivor could self-unhook, giving them a 5 second window to unhook. It would only take the killer ducking out to further than 16m for 5 seconds to deny an unhook attempt before they lost a hook state.
However, if the killer facecamped within the 10m inner zone the gauge would charge in 33.3 seconds, allowing the survivor to self-unhook as early as 38 seconds into their first hook state.
- Each survivor within the 10-16m zone reduces the rate by 0.125c/s
- Each survivor within the 10m zone reduces the rate by 0.5c/s
This would mean if a survivor was looping the killer around a hook within that 10-16m intermediate zone, it would take 57 seconds of charge before the survivor could unhook themselves, or 62 seconds in total. So, the hooked survivor would not being able to unhook before they lost a hook state.
But if another survivor was looping within 10m of the hook, that would extend to 55 seconds, but again, it would only take the killer to maintain his loop at further than 10 meters to prevent this. Two survivors within that 10m zone would push it well over 60 seconds, and essentially prevent the self-unhook within the first hook state again.
If the killer can’t catch the looping survivor within 55 seconds, then by all rights they deserve to lose the hook. A 55 second loop around a hook just doesn’t happen, it takes chaining multiple loops to last that long. This will only happen if the killer is actively facecamping and dropping chase periodically.
These hypothetical values I think would be close to a ‘sweet spot’, but of course they’re just the first values that came to mind so I’m sure there’s a more optimal system that BHVR are closer to themselves. The point is, you can change these values, such as increasing or decreasing the required charges from 50 to 60 or 40, and the c/s, as necessary, to achieve the effect you want, whereby facecampers are penalised but killers not facecamping aren’t.
I'm usually sceptical about these things, all other anti-camping measures tested have been abused, and there's always a chance BHVR don't get the values right. But I think this proposed system has a lot of potential to actually work this time.
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Because it doesn't actually nerf face camping and its just going to be another thing that SWF can exploit. So for example.
Lets say you are facing the facecamping bubba, the thing that supposedly this is designed to fix:
- Bubba downs you, and hooks you, and then face camps you
- Your timer for your bar starts increasing
- You unhook youtself,
- Bubba chainsaws you, you get deep wound.
- Bubba chainsaws you again during the same chainsaw sweep (this is possible)
- You go down.
- You go back on the hook.
- Repeat.
You'll still get facecamped and tunneled out, just now it'll take the bubba (in theory) a few seconds longer, but that is only if you wait until the very last second of the stage to unhook yourself. If you do it right away (as i'm sure most will) you'll actually just die faster.
Now lets look at the other scenario You are playing on "The Game" map.
- Killer gets a hook and starts hunting for other survivors
- Other survivors run him somewhat nearby the survivor on the hook.
- Yeah, their anti-hook thing is a bit slower, but eventually they can unhook themselves
- Despite the fact the killer isn't actually camping, nor can they, because of the different floors on the map.
- Because the face-camp radius is just a giant cylinder instead of an actual path distance.
- For example, you could be below the survivor and considered "camping" despite the fact that the actual distance to reach the survivor, by going around, and going upstairs, could be well over 40+ meters.
So basically, it introduces a complicated mechanic whereby everyone has to know exactly how far away they are from the hook in order to get information on how close the survivor is to unhooking themselves. Doesn't actually solve the problem, and is exploitable by coordinated teams.
A much BETTER solution, would be one that makes camping completely impossible for example, my proposed solution is actually a fix for both tunneling and camping:
- Remove the 4% mechanic and rework luck (it is dumb)
- Adjust bloodpoint gains so if a survivor is getting camped, they get the shared points of their team.
- Adjust bloodpoint gains so if a survivor is being chased they get some extra bloodpoints while their team does gens (distracting the killer)
- Make survivors share the 1st hook state.
- Meaning that if you hook a survivor, and they get unhooked, then you hook them again, they are still on the "first stage" because the team still has 3 shared hook states left.
- Once the team burns through their 4 shared hook states, then they start using their individual hook states.
- Tunneling becomes effectively impossible, because now you need to down and hook the same guy 6 times to kill him, instead of just 3, during which time you should be able to finish more gens
- Camping becomes impossible, because it'll take 6 minutes for the survivor to die, plenty of time for the rest of the team to finish all the gens.
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You'll still get facecamped and tunneled out, just now it'll take the bubba (in theory) a few seconds longer...
This is still much better than it is currently.
What happens currently when you get facecamped? You hang there completely passively with nothing to do for 120 seconds, not partaking in any gameplay, then you die. Or, you give up and Bubba eliminates someone in a matter of seconds, lets say around 20 by the time you realise you're getting camped and take your chances and give up.
What would happen? Is that after 59 seconds of hanging on the hook, you get to play again guaranteed. You get to run for around 10-60 seconds depending on how long you manage to stay up. Even if you go straight back on the hook, you then get the chance to do it again in another 59 seconds. You've now occupied the killer for between 140 and 240 seconds instead of between 20 and 120 seconds. You've scored two lots of unhook BP scores plus extra chase time, and given your team mates enough time to repair more gens. You've been given and incentive to stay in the game instead of giving up, and achieved more for it.
So basically, it introduces a complicated mechanic whereby everyone has to know exactly how far away they are from the hook in order to get information on how close the survivor is to unhooking themselves.
The whole idea of it having two graduated zones is so it's not easy to 'game' the system. No one is going to be noting when they're 10 and 16 meters away from the hook, and looping a killer directly above/below a hook on a 2-floor map is going to be very situational and easily avoided by the killer.
A much BETTER solution, would be one that makes camping completely impossible for example, my proposed solution is actually a fix for both tunneling and camping:
Why do people keep suggesting shared hook states? This would be awful, it would promote tunnelling even more.
Just as a bad survivor can feed a Myers his stalk, every game would just be bad survivors feeding the killer the whole teams shared hook states until everyone is suddenly on death hook without ever having been hooked once.
I don't know where you got the idea that 'allowing the killer to tunnel the same person even more' would somehow 'prevent tunnelling'.
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Btw, nice idea with one shared hookstate.
Although self-unhooking is pretty dumb, I was thinking about slow up to zero hook progression the closer killer to hook. And radius could be fixed by using sphere instead of cylinder (no need that Skull Merchant thing). Besides, game is ok, there are pleny of ways to go up and even more to go down, Midwich would be more proper example (still not to hard).
But I'd try one shared hook state + huge increase of hook timer by itself, so it would be VERY punishing to wait for survivor to die.
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So your suggestion is to create esoteric “punishment zones” for the Killer, that aren’t easily understood or noticed, to instill an underlying bias that they cannot stay near survivors once they’re hooked. Just so survivors can preferably at minimum maximize hook economy, and at most gain a time efficiency advantage without any effort whatsoever on their part, while not addressing proxy camping, high mobility Killers, chokepoints, patrol routes in relation to generators remaining, or map elevation?
An unclear, passive, AoE based mechanic that promotes Killer uncertainty/anxiety over approaching a hooked survivor is not what I think would help the game, nor would it introduce any novelty.
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