Why is Ultimate Weapon considered OP?
Not trying to start an argument i'm just looking for an explanation since this perk is making the rounds as one of the more busted perks to be released
You open a locker and for a few seconds anybody in your TR screams and is afflicted with blindness then it goes on cd before being able to use it again.
That's all the perk does, and blindness without a doubt is the most useless status affliction in the game even against solo Q it does basically nothing aside from one rare 1 out of 100 game where nobody was paying attention to the obnoxiously big bubbles that happen whenever the killer hooks someone
That leaves just the screaming, which isn't even something new it's just a more reliable way to use the scream mechanic and even then the only perk this really synergizes well with is deadmans switch which was already nerfed to a subpar level (not saying it's bad it just didn't deserve the nerf imo), Yes, I know pig and doctor can use this perk fairly well with addons but they usually have to heavy commit to the gimmick or it doesn't work which makes it predictable, then there's wesker who can use it due to his naturally big TR but it's basically just a BBQ and Chili at that point.
I'm honestly unable to find out what makes the perk so strong. It's just a good info perk and nothing wrong with that imo
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Because there isn’t much for survivors to counteract when facing it. It’s also a perk that greatly benefits the top tier killers while it’s kind of a nonfactor on low tier killers.
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To me its not overpowered, just over tuned.
Opening the locker doesn't cause people to scream, it makes the perk activate and the moment some one is in your Terror Radius within 30 seconds, the killer knows where you are and because of a bug that makes Survivors scream in lockers (only for this perk btw) it makes it have 0 counterplay.
My main problem is the activation time. It needs to be reduced DRASTICALLY as 30 seconds allows you to basically cover a large majority of the map, if not the whole thing. Information is a very strong tool and for Ultimate Weapon to not only have one of the strongest effects, but also having it so easily accessible is just dumb.
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Doesn't going into a locker stop it and calm spirit stops the perk from really doing anything
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And killers tend to just slug to find the last person to deny hatch plays or exit gate plays. Their 4k is on the line and they need it so badly!
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30 seconds is fine, it's not too long and any shorter and it would be a useless perk. If the killer is running around the map to proc it on everyone then they're not chasing anybody and usually will go after the last person who screams as the others will likely run away from where they screamed plus TR and visual TR still exist so you know very easily if you're the one they're coming for and can run accordingly. This is practically what BBQ and chili does but with preference, one shows aura far away without you traveling to that location the other shows you near you but you have to travel to use it. A nurse/blight would make far better use of BBQ than UI for more pinpoint info whereas a slower killer like trapper or pinhead (just as an example) would rather UI because of map balancing issues where they're just too big to make use of BBQ's duration.
Has nothing to do with the post, take the salt somewhere else
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Thing is you don't need to just go running around the map just to proc it, you can use it to find 1 Survivor and they have absolutely no way to avoid it. Then when chasing said Survivor, you're more than likely gonna have some one else scream knowing where they are and possibly where to go next.
Its also strong just to slug for the 4k since again, there's no avoiding the perk.
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Active time is too long and the cooldown is too short. That’s it really.
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Yes it does. We are literally talking about ultimate weapon here. Hello?!
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Its avoidable with calm spirit.
Sort of like avoiding the annoyance of never being able to find a survivor squatting in a bush is possible with ultimate weapon.
It doesn't work like a normal info perk(BBQ and chilli), those show you the survivors direction of motion, allowing mobility killers to intercept with an impossible to dodge hit.
As a survivor you know when the standard info perks will be used, so you adjust your(primarily) range from the killer at those moments. The game forces a predictability onto the killer that survivors get used to.(I know I do).
Ultimate Weapon doesn't allow that, the killer can randomly open a locker whenever, wherever as long as the map allows.
Its annoying, thats why I think its been tagged as OP and needs adjustment.
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Killers slugging for the 4k has absolutely nothing to do with Ultimate Weapon's existence there are also plenty of perks to find the final survivor while the other is slugged again nothing to do with ultimate weapon
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Whats wrong with it?
4 kills is the best possible outcome of the match and gives extra points.
You can blame nobody for wanting that.
You can however blame the hatch mechanic that enables these boring stalemates in the first place.
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And that's a problem?
You know why this perk isn't strong?
Because I know where survivor are.
Why do I know that? Gens or in my face.
I mostly know spawn logic on all maps now and can also predict survivor pathing pretty well. This perk literally helps me the same as Bbq does. Even worse, because I have to open a locker for it. As a Pig main, that's huge time investment that I need for chases.
The best thing about the Perk is blindness because it disables windows of opportunity. A perk that more survivors rely on then they want to admit.
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Its one thing having good game knowledge, I myself have over 6k hours and dont necessarily main a killer but I have a pretty good understanding of all of them (some of course more than others)
How ever actually seeing some one thats some where you dont expect can create an opportunity to snowball that otherwise wouldnt be there, and this perk presents MANY opportunities.
It is far from a weak perk, its probably the strongest information perk in this games history as its a strong effect, while having such an easy activation requirement
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Im saying killers are more prone to slug for the 4k when they have ultimate weapon equipped and the final survivor is nowhere to be found. I didnt say the perk caused slugging for the 4k to all of a sudden happen in this game.
Its literally the only perk that can effectively find a survivor that is nowhere to be seen on big maps. So yea, ultimate weapon absolutely has something to do with more slugging occuring when the perk is used
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Tbh I dont get it either. To me, the perk by itself does not seem all that powerful or op. I saw someone say it only helps the top-tier killers more but isn't that most perks in dbd? Top-tier killers can make any perk super op bc you know they top tier killers. Survivors perks have something like this also. A lot of strong survivor perks have little to no effect on top-tier killers but greatly hurt lower-tier killers. Look at MfT, it does nothing against a Blight, Spirit, or nurse but against a Trapper or m1 killer it's super strong.
I do know UW is really strong with DMS but it's not the first perk to be strong with DMS since DMS's buff. Pain res is still super strong with DMS also. I also know there is an evil build for pig that makes searching boxes super annoying and deathly but again I feel this is a pig box issue, not a UW issue. I just feel no matter what they do to UW to solve ppl issues with perk are going to keep it a decent and useful perk. I feel any nerf to it will just make it competely useless since it is not super strong, to begin with. I dont know I just dont understand why UW has been on everyone's list to complain about as of late. I just dont see it really.
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Im not blaming anyone. Im just calling out what i see and experienced myself. So i hope killers would understand as well why survivors have been bringing calm spirit more or hiding in the corner to prevent screaming on a perk that bypasses lockers as well(which is a bug btw).
Besides, boring playstyles begats boring playstyles in return. You slug for the 4k, the survivor may just wait it out until the slug person bleeds out for hatch opportunity.
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Whats your point?
When have I encouraged slugging for the 4k. I just justified it.
I also never said that I do it.
Please stop with the us VS them mantality.
Survivors want as many of their team to escape and killers want as many kills as possible.
Again: The hatch is the mechanic that forces this boring stalemate. I would like a form if end game chase much more. If the survivor lasts a good amount of time in chase, they are granted the escape.
More engaging and fun for both sides.
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Again, it's info. That's good on killers that can do something with it.
That's meaning A tier or above. Most weaker killers will not profit from this perk.
I've run it on pig for a bunch of games and it actually felt way worse than Bbq or floods of rage.
Again: the best part was the blindness.
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Its not just A tier and above that benefit from this perk, Id argue majority of killers benefit from it.
Pig I can see why it isnt too good considering information doesnt synergize well with her way of snowballing
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I never directly claimed that you encouraged the playstyles. When i said "You slug for the 4k, the survivor may just wait it out until the slug person bleeds out for hatch opportunity", the you was refering to killers who do so outside this conversation between me and you. I dont know who u are nor do i know which side u play anyways. But if u feel like that message was for you...then thats on you. Not my problem.
Once again, since i must continue to reiterate my message. Im saying i dont blame anyone for playing a certain way to win or bringing a certain perk to win. However, you will begin to see why ppl play the way they do because of this perk that does not have an effective counter like other info killer perks that have effective counters without the usage if perks.
Ex:Iron maiden:dont go in lockers
bbq and chili:hide in locker and if they have both iron maiden. Hide behind a gen to onscure their aura reading
Darkness revealed:hide away from lockers.
The list goes on with effective counters
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No, killers are more prone to slug for the 4k when you get those sweaty killers that really want the 4k, perks have nothing to do with it. The perk has nothing to do with their actions and if your main complaint is that they use it to slug for the 4k then your issue isn't with the perk it's with the gameplay in which case that's an entirely different subject. Sweats will be sweats and casuals will be casuals the game has no way to separate the two so you just have to deal with it or play another game (which won't hurt you btw contrary to what the very vocal part of the community thinks)
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Dude calm down. You come to a forum asking for opinions then when given one that doesn't align with yours, you tell them to just deal with it or leave the community. It's not that deep. Seriously.
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Too much info for free. It's a pretty massive jump when the best info perks go from stuff like lethal and bbq to something like on demand no cost info like nowhere to hide.
I was actually complaining about perks like darkness revealed and nowhere to hide when they came out for the exact same reason. Only reason i don't really care that much about the topic tbh is because i utterly loathe survivors who just hide all match as killer.
Post edited by Steakdabait on3 -
Toxic killers are more prone to slug for the 4k. Unless they have to do a challenge its just toxic killers that do that. I was watching my friend stream and this plague made the game last 15 more minutes than usual because they so badly wanted a 4k. They let the bot wiggle out like 5 times as well and almost bleed them out too. Just watching that was boring enough
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Pretty much this. I would ignore the Bug, because, well, it is a Bug and will be fixed rather sooner than later.
But that it follows the Killer is way too much. Playing against something like a high-mobility Killer or a Nurse is really painful when they have Ultimate Weapon.
IMO even if the Perk would not linger and would just work on a radius after opening a Locker with a 30 second Cooldown, it would still be very strong. It would basically be a Static Blast for every Killer, so a Killer Ability as a Perk. This would already be good. But that it is lingering is just too much IMO.
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OK. That's great for your friend. But from my experience, nearly every killer with ultimate weapon I've been against would leave the person on the floor and use ultimate weapon to find me for the 4k. Yes I get killers that do without it. But if they have the perk. They will most likely do it.
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I honestly believe that would be more appropriate and I agree with you. I would rather it be a radius when you opened the locker rather than it lingering for that whole 30 seconds
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I had one oni in his demon dash use ultimate weapon while slugging for the 4k so I understand.
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I feel that is to close to Darkness Revealed. It's a decent change for UW don't get me wrong but Darkness Revealed already kinda do that but with aura instead of screaming. I feel that just makes the two to similar to each other.
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True. People say : use it to interrupt boxes.
I (with 2k hours on her) say: why?
I'm there. I know they are there because I know survivor pathing. Why should I not interrupt them myself. Getting easy head pops is still rng. I just need the 1-3-4-4 rng and I get one. No joke. It happens all the time. Sometimes even two. This perk literally doesn't help.
It's good, dont get me wrong. Just not the super busted perk choice some make it seem.
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First things first: you seem to be playing survivor a lot. This is just an assumption, based on how you write so please, if I'm wrong, correct me.
Man perks have counters, some are more obvious, some less and some don't have counters at all.
Corrupt intervention for example has received a counter after how many years of existence? 4? 5? Use no mither and plot twist do down yourself.
Some perks with obvious counters are already mentioned. Other examples are basicly all hex perks or Dead man's switch (let go of the Gen when someone gets hooked).
These are perks that can be countered by not even bringing perks at all.
Other have very complicated counterplay like Stbfl. The counter is aggressive team play. That's something you don't see in soloq that often. The obsession has to basicly throw themselves at the killer when they acquired high enough stacks and bodyblock for other survivors. It does counter the Perk.
Then there are perks that realistically don't have counterplay at all: deadlock. Deadlock is only countered by popping two gens simultaneously (doesn't happen very often).
I didn't even go into survivor perks that don't have any counterplay.
Ultimate weapon falls into the category of : countered by a perk. Case and point : calm spirit.
That's ok. It's obscure just like the counter to corrupt.
I would even say that calm spirit is a decent choice right now because the most picked killer perk seems to be suge / jolt which makes you scream at gens. So the player counters more or less two perks. Doc is also getting countered.
I feel, that the problem is more survivor players that want a bunch of perks to be countered by one obvious choice and use that every game.
If the players wants to counter ultimate weapons info aspect, they have to use calm spirit. It's dumb but hey, that's what shattered hope was, when boons existed. Besides the fact that the one perk only gives info and blindness and the other aoe self are to all survivors.
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Before ultimate weapon, if you wanted to run a stealth build, you could bring distortion, which you had to balance around the charges. Now you have to guess between calm spirit and distortion or just waste two perks slots.
Additionally, the ability on the killers part to control when you find survivors is very strong. With other info perks you always have a degree of uncertainty. BBQ not seeing auras? Are they close, running distortion, or did you miss them behind a gen?
While ultimate weapon has a cooldown, the killer has complete control of when to proc it and there is very little survivors can do about it during a game. The terror radius also means when it hits you will be within the vicinity of a survivor, with things like BBQ it might pop and you'll see the survivors all the way across the map, but the time you get there they've left without a trace.
That's all the perk does, and blindness without a doubt is the most useless status affliction in the game even against solo QIt's kind of like, why is it even there? I know there are similar survivor perks, but when a perk has one really good feature it having any additional benefits is just something that should be corrected.
It's just a good info perk and nothing wrong with that imoIt's not just a good info perk, in many ways its the best info perk. Aura reading killers would usually spend multiple slots on perks, likely lethal pursuer and at least one other, ultimate weapon gets those benefits all on its own.
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Hilarious arguments did read until I knew what the main focus was about the rest is just the same twitter dbd argument.
By the definition of "OP" because it lasts too long.. should also WoO be look up then too? survivors getting all that free info without any sort of "do this first then you get your benefit" or the community is going to rally yet again to the basic "nerf X because it ruins my fun"
OTR gets you free BT, free distortion and free iron will. Do OTR needs to be also look after because 1 perk gives you 3 benefits as well? hmmm..
I don't think there will be any sort of rational discussion anymore when it comes to dbd.. that train has sailed the moment an information perk is now suddenly become too "op".. I guess next could be coup de grace too "op" too because you can't use your MFT to reach yet another window or pallet to pre drop..
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Nurse and blight use this perk extremely well. Once you scream, they are basically already next to you.
Pig can force trap kills with this + face the darkness
Unlike other info perks (bbq/lethal pursuer/floods of rage) you can't really hide from it unless you bring the useless perk calm spirit (which STILL has a downside despite being bad). The killer also has full control over the activation of the perk and the cooldown is pretty short considering how good the perk is. It's so baffling how oppression, a much weaker perk, has an 80 second cooldown, but ultimate weapon only needs 30 seconds.
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Listen. We can go tit for tat over which perk counters each other. But at the end of the day, ultimate weapon is getting nerfed next patch to do away with screaming in lockers which is a bug btw. And rightfully so.
And yea. Im a survivor main. And i like to dip my toe in a lil killer matches as well. I dont sweat like the others. But once again(here i am repeating myself), Im not gonna blame someone for playing how they wanna play. Slug for that ez 4k and allow ultimate weapon to easily give u value. But dont be mad when that last survivor hide till the person bleeds out for hatch. They trying to win also. Cause at that point the killer already won. A 3k is a win btw.
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THE pig traps/ultimate weapon combo is absurdly stupid. Almost TS peice level of sillyness. I think UW ok outside of that.
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How was that me NOT being calm? I could've called you a baby or tell you to get good and you never gave an opinion, you came here and complained about killers slugging for the 4k then got upset when I told you that's not what the post is about then proceeded to complain about killers slugging for the 4k and when I said just accept it or play somethin else you get even more offended? Baffling to me.
Nurse and Blight need to just stop being used as an excuse to nerf perks and nerf/rework the killers themselves. They make basically every perk in the game seem unfair because their powers are innately unfair. Having the ability to traverse the map so quickly as well as ignore counterplay mechanics put in place are just stupid. The survivors reward in chase for playing well is distance and their powers close that distance basically immediately with very little downside due to addons. If a Nurse/Blight wants to find you without UW they can easily do so with nearly any other info perk. I do agree Oppression needs a buff, I would personally increase it's CD to 100 seconds but allow it to apply any other gen kicking perk to the other 3 generators
Are people seriously complaining about Coup is that really a thing?
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I still dont see how you could sit there and again say my initial comment relating to a higher risk of slugging for a 4k due to the perk is off topic. And i responded back to you saying we are talking about ultimate weapon. So im not off topic. You just dont wanna hear it. Me and many others have experienced this situation more when killers have that perk equipped.
And yes, you should definitely remain calm if you want to at least have a meaningful conversation on a public forum. Simply telling another person to accept or play something else is a low blow. Do better. I know you can.
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Ok, soooo. I showed you that many perks have no real counter or a very niche counter. Ultimate weapon is nothing new so.
I'm all for making a perk working as intended. Screaming in lockers is not intended? Then it should definitely go.
I will again say : the mechanic that enforces slugging for the 4k is the hatch.
Making a final chase would be much more healthy and engaging for all players involved. The killer wants to guarantee the best possible outcome to the match. As you said, that's fine. The survivor also wants to have a chance at winning.
Why then is there a rng - based mechanic that enables boring stalemates and unfun scenarios for both sides?
You wanna know what else there is? Blight with no way out. Finds hatch and then you have no way of exiting due to no way out. Is that fun or fair?
Ultimate weapon only makes it shorter.
Is it nice? No.
Is it something new? Also no.
We should focus more in the real problem and not on the band aid fixes.
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So funny how their intro to the discussion is "Not trying to start an argument i'm just looking for an explanation" but ever since you left a single comment trying to explain they implied you should shut up and you're salty and nothing more etc. LOL... Love this community.😍
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I get this point, however, Ultimate Weapon would still be way better than Darkness Revealed. Simply because it has less counters. They have some counters which are similar (hiding in Lockers, at least after UW is fixed), but against screaming only Calm Spirit will really help and this Perk is very niche. Against Aura-Reveal however you have Distortion or even Off the Record (for a limited time), which are better and work against more things.
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It's more problematic on mobile killer's like Nurse, Blight, Wesker , Legion etc. Combine it with Dead man's switch which is literally the same cooldown and with Wesker's terror radius, nothing is getting done. That's just 2 perks. Simply put it does too much and combo's too well for a perk with that short of a cooldown.
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I dislike the secondary effect, regardless of how weak blindess is, it's still redundant on a strong perk already.
I also agree with most of wat shroompy said
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