Is It Toxic To Want To Win?
I enjoy the endgame banter in games because its interesting to see how polarizing the line of thought between Players can be. For Context here I am a off and on killer main. In a recent match I had a very altruistic team who was constantly there for pallet saves and flashlights. But as the story goes they were so focused on saves that they eventually lose the game to attrition and I finally manage to start racking up some kills.
Now in this second half of the match, I had used a hook spot near the corner of the map as that's where the survivors were running too. but after downing another survivor I quickly spot a issue. There is only one close hooks at this corner of the map. And once the survivor on hook dies, there will be no hooks left at this corner.
So as expected, I bleed out two survivors and hooked two others. In the endgame chat I'm lambasted for my toxic playstyle and plays and my toxic decision to bleed out the two survivors in the corner. So I had to ask, Was I supposed to let survivors wiggle out? The answer was of course yes, I was told how that was how I was supposed to play and to get good or stop playing.
Its fascinating to me that survivors would make my early game trying to get one hook so difficult, only to complain that I suddenly want to win and that I should give them a chance to escape.
I love DBD
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Only thing toxic here was the survivors going into a corner to give the killer no chance to get a hook. There’s literally nothing a killer can do here other than bleed them out. These survivors are just sore losers and don’t wanna admit to getting outplayed. I guess that’s just human nature though.
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There's no reason for you to purposefully throw the game if you're not given any other option. This was just entitlement on their end, plain and simple. Those who say things like that are just not thinking clearly, no reason to try and argue.
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Yeah, this game is one of it's kind for having the only community in a PvP game that accepts that one side not allowing the enemy team to play how they want and still win is "Being boring / toxic" and should not be allowed. Among other things.
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That is a macro failing on Killer to ever fall prey to permanently destroyed hooks. If they are the only Surv, I can understand if this is the last eye-for-an-eye uncouth behavior to match uncouth behavior, but nearly all maps have 2 hooks accessible from all corners. The only way this is a toxic move by Survs, is a full Breakdown squad intentionally going down in the same corner. The only problem with that is, they can't progress the gens on the ground, and will eventually bleed themselves out. Now I'm not saying the Survivors would be right in saying the Killer is toxic, just everyone in the match is a fool. Like the old Buckin' Bronco on RPD's third floor Library, if you choose to go down where no hook is, you choose to die to bleedout.
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....Complicated.
For wanting to win? No. But if you're a win at any cost type of person, you NEED to understand that those strategies are EXTREMELY unfun to play against
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According to this community, it’s very toxic for killers to try to win, to use strong perks, to use strong addons, to use strong killers, to play strategically, to exploit survivors’ mistakes, or to do anything except meme around mindlessly. Killers must play in a single, narrowly-defined way that allows survivors to win 100% of the time.
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Thank God nobody complains about MFT. Or toolboxes. Or Resilience. Or SWF. Or Pallets. Or WoO. Otherwise this statement would be would a load of crap.
I just checked your history and you're a professional victim, so I guess have fun feeling sorry for yourself.
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I'll be honest. Neither side has a monopoly in complaining, but in my 5 years and nearly 5000 hours of playtime, nobody complains more frequently and loudly than hardcore killer players. Many killer players think they're performing community service by selecting the role at the menu screen.
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Not on its own, no.
A lot of people fall into this bizarre mindset where they believe there's nothing wrong with them going 110% in every match then.. do a 180 and get very mad if they meet opponent(s) that match their energy and give them some stiff competition? Sadly seems far too common. Not sure if "toxic" is the word I'd use ("hypocritical" or "entitled" seem more fitting) but I absolutely despise it, that's for sure.
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When people play with a gimmick, hoping to win without skill, I don't put any weight in their opinions.
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Nah, survivors actually do act like killers aren't supposed to do anything that defeats them.
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Can't play DBD without Killers and Survivor Mains sure ain't gonna start playing a role they've never touched.
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what you did in the end is in fact toxic
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why do you even care? crawling to a hook dead zone = bleed out. they also know that very well. just say gg and maybe a cheeky little statement that you had fun and move on.
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I think the word toxic gets thrown around too much. No, it's not toxic to want to win. I get why you did what you did (though honestly, I can't remember the last time I managed to wiggle off - there's usually plenty of time to get to a hook) but is it not boring to yourself to have to stand around for a few minutes until people bleed out? I'd personally rather risk them wiggling off so I have something to do than just wait around. But to each their own.
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LOL this is so true. Oh my gosh this has me dying 😭 I'm going to steal this if that's alright and start saying this from now on haha.
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it is not toxic, just as I want to win in monopoly, i want to win in Dead By Daylight.
The important thing is being of good sports in endgame chat
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That's the biggest lie I had seen in this forum since ever, and you only have to check the Feedback forums to see it is a lie.
The only times I had seen killers complain more than survivors are when a perk starts to be a problem (e.g. DH and MfT). I had yet to see as many "killers need an anti-mistake system", "survivors are OP", "doing X is toxic, survivors should not be able to do this" or "nerf this perk that is a direct counter to those I use" posts from killers complaining that I have seen the reverse from survivors. Not even close.
Also, we have survivors literally saying that a killer is there for their sole amusement and those that don't play how they want are "boring". So, who are the ones that think killers are there performing a service again?
And as a reminder, killers are not the ones review bombing the game everytime BHVR does a balance change that they don't like, like what happened with the last healing nerf or how they made BHVR nerf Freddy on release when it was the killer with the most easy and stronger counter this game had until Singularity.
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Most of the survivor complaints are one-and-done folks though. If I see a survivor complaint it's likely from someone whose username I've never seen before and will never see again. There are a handful of killer players on this forum I would jokingly describe as "having a full time job at the survivor hating factory". As far as I can tell, *that* is what edgar was talking about. Everyone has their complaints, but a certain subset of killer players are the most individually vocal.
I personally would potentially disagree with his use of the word "hardcore" as it kind of implies they're stronger players, and the biggest complainers are on the weaker end of the skill scale, but I do agree that there is a phenomenon of a tiny slice of killer players being the biggest individual source of complaining
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Its really not toxic to want to win even if the scenario requires bleeding players out to do it.
The goal to stopping toxicity is to realize that no matter what happens in game that's where the interaction stops.
It's that simple.
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That's not even true, either. While they may not create a lot of post, in the responses you would see that there is a good amount of "hardcore" survivor mains in the forum supporting those who create posts to complain. People with hundreds or thousand of post, so...
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Toxic to want to win? Not in my opinion, but people define toxicity differently.
People want to win, it's human nature. Even if it's something completely random and divorced from skill (which DbD feels like some days), people will want to win.
But it is more nuanced than that. Victory at what cost? What does the "win" really signify? Can a win really be clearly defined? I've said it a million times and I'll keep saying it: a win in DbD means about a little in validating your skill as a gamer as any PvP game I've ever played. There are many games I do play with my competitiveness turned up to 11 all the time, but this one isn't it. It makes no sense to me.
I play to win, sure, but more than that I play DBD to have fun. Fun is really the only thing I feel I can take from the game. It's not fun for me to win cheaply, or by curbstomping some poor potatoes who got screwed by SBMM. I don't want to be the one responsible for someone else having a bad time in a game that I feel should be about fun (unless they are being a jerk, in which case I will return that energy).
I want to win, but I feel like DBD is the most fun when everyone in a match is reciprocating what everyone else is bringing. Sometimes, that's hard nosed sweatiness. But the vast majority of the time it isn't. Rolling into every match "playing for maximum efficiency" is pretty cringe, imo.
Is playing to win at all costs in DBD toxic? No. Is it kinda absurd? Yes, yes it is.
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I can think of like, two.
I could probably name quite a few more people who routinely post extremely biased takes towards Killer.
Thankfully, I can name magnitudes more that are reasonable.
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I feel like I do community service when I play naughty bear with 4 undetectable perks just to meme with all 4 survivors.
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I only play killer for tome changes now, so its not much.
But i had a trapper game where they litterly camped putside the basement after i placed a guy on a hook there, so i ran after them back down in the basement. In the endgame chat i was called Toxic, "English ####" (im not from England tho) and i was told to give my steam ID "then we would sort this out once and for all"
Im not taking it so much to heart anymore, it seems BHVR have really cracked down on this, because its rare now, when i was a killer main it was really often and really crazy stuff you got told, if you won.
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No, but I don't like the people who play public matches like it were a championship with a 50.000€ reward for the winner, carrying everytime the most OP items/addons, map offerings, the strongest perk builds and genrushing/slugging/camping/tunneling.
For the people who like to play chill like me it feels exhausting and make the experience more unenjoyable. But it is just an opinion, you can't call "toxic" someone just because he/she want to win at all cost.
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Each to their own, when i was a killer main, i met SWF groups like you describe. And sadly that put me in a "high gear", i adopted that playstyle to keep up with the SWF. Sadly, i didnt just gear down when i had my next match, i kept the high pace and slaughtered them like lambs. Not because i wanted to, but once you are in high gear you dont always notice it, and it can also be hard just to slow down again.
The goal of the game is to win, and for some people its at all cost, if your games seems to be too sweaty, try loosing some matches to lower your mmr, dont throw the game, but after the gens are done you can just let the killer get you or let the endgame collapse timer run out while staying.
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